Why was the difference between MJ and Pete Myers 2- Wins?

[2ball]

Thoughts?

[3ball]

Because anyone leads their team to 55 wins - it's nothing and simply shows how much the 3-peat bulls took the regular season off

Lowry, Dominique, Kevin Johnson, Marc Gasol (in memphis), and tons of guys lead their team to 55 wins.. heck, derozan was winning 60 .. derozan... let that sink in

Otoh, the Bulls fell from the goat offense to #14 in the league, which caused the fall from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd round team

And the 94' season was largely confidence from being a 3-peat team and system because the luster wore off in 95' after the playoffs exposed them

[NBASTATMAN]

JORDAN OVERRATED... https://www.basketballnetwork.net/phil-jackson-remembers-the-moment-when-jordan-realized-pippen-is-the-best-all-around-player-in-the-nba/

[light]

Thoughts?

To be specific, it was 1993 MJ and Pete Myers.

1993 MJ was tired and done. He actually was considering retiring before the start of the 1993 season and missed the start of training camp because of that.

Basically it was finals fatigue not just for Jordan but for the entire team (also remember they had to do the Olympics in 1992 in the middle of all of that).

The 1994 Myers Bulls could not compete with a still-hungry 1992 Jordan Bulls team that won 67 games, for example.

[3ball]

To be specific, it was 1993 MJ and Pete Myers.

1993 MJ was tired and done. He actually was considering retiring before the start of the 1993 season and missed the start of training camp because of that.

Basically it was finals fatigue not just for Jordan but for the entire team.

The 1994 Myers Bulls could not compete with a still-hungry 1992 Jordan Bulls team that won 67 games, for example.

He would've kept playing if Barkley beat him

Only unprecedented domination in the modern era that exceeded bird/magic (3-peat) allowed MJ to properly mourn his father via baseball

[97 bulls]

Because anyone leads their team to 55 wins - it's nothing and simply shows how much the 3-peat bulls took the regular season off

Lowry, Dominique, Kevin Johnson, Marc Gasol (in memphis), and tons of guys lead their team to 55 wins.. heck, derozan was winning 60 .. derozan... let that sink in

Otoh, the Bulls fell from the goat offense to #14 in the league, which caused the fall from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd round team

And the 94' season was largely confidence from being a 3-peat team and system because the luster wore off in 95' after the playoffs exposed them

Bro. Why do you keep lying? 3 starters remained from the 5 players that started for the Bulls in 93. Kukoc, Wennington, Kerr, Longley, and Myers WEREN'T EVEN ON THE TEAM IN 93. They were the main rotation players along with Pip, Armstrong, and Grant. 3 players cant make championship chemistry for the whole team. Not to mention that as much as you degrade the Bulls outside of MJ, you'd think that the 94 Bulls only won 35 games. Not 55. The fact is that MJ had a 55 win team (actually 60+ if you account for injuries) playing alongside side him.

Your argument would have much more merit if the Bulls left their roster totally intact from 93 to 94 except Jordan.

[97 bulls]

Because anyone leads their team to 55 wins - it's nothing and simply shows how much the 3-peat bulls took the regular season off

Lowry, Dominique, Kevin Johnson, Marc Gasol (in memphis), and tons of guys lead their team to 55 wins.. heck, derozan was winning 60 .. derozan... let that sink in

Otoh, the Bulls fell from the goat offense to #14 in the league, which caused the fall from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd round team

And the 94' season was largely confidence from being a 3-peat team and system because the luster wore off in 95' after the playoffs exposed them

None of the teams you claim were better than the Bulls did.

[Mauzah]

I think it's because Chicago cultivated a strong team orientated system throughout the years.

They fully bought in and played some beautiful basketball like a mix of 2014 Spurs mixed with Thibbs Bulls era.

[Axe]

Phil was partly the reason why the bulls flourished. The dynasty can't be at its fullest with missing pieces.

[3ball]

None of the teams you claim were better than the Bulls did.

Kevin Johnson led the 90' Suns to the WCF by defeating Magic's 1 seeded Lakers

KJ destroys Pippen as a better scorer and passer..

in addition to dominating Magic's Lakers, KJ averaged 28/6/9 against Hakeem's 94' and 95' Rockets in two 7 game series, including a couple 45 and 46 point ganes..

Now imagine if 90' KJ that destroyed Magic replaced 90' Pippen that collapsed against the Pistons in 7 games... So clearly, pippen simply won the "3-peat with MJ" lottery... He was lucky to play alongside the goat in a 2-star vs. 2-star 90's, where nearly anyone wins alongside the goat.

[aceman]

Because anyone leads their team to 55 wins - it's nothing and simply shows how much the 3-peat bulls took the regular season off

Lowry, Dominique, Kevin Johnson, Marc Gasol (in memphis), and tons of guys lead their team to 55 wins.. heck, derozan was winning 60 .. derozan... let that sink in

Otoh, the Bulls fell from the goat offense to #14 in the league, which caused the fall from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd round team

And the 94' season was largely confidence from being a 3-peat team and system because the luster wore off in 95' after the playoffs exposed them

Jordan so good he gets credit for team he's not on

[tpols]

Because anyone leads their team to 55 wins - it's nothing and simply shows how much the 3-peat bulls took the regular season off

Lowry, Dominique, Kevin Johnson, Marc Gasol (in memphis), and tons of guys lead their team to 55 wins.. heck, derozan was winning 60 .. derozan... let that sink in

Otoh, the Bulls fell from the goat offense to #14 in the league, which caused the fall from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd round team

And the 94' season was largely confidence from being a 3-peat team and system because the luster wore off in 95' after the playoffs exposed them

The biggest defense in your favor is that the Bulls went from #1 ranked, +120 favorites (all time great) in 1993... to 10th ranked, +1500 favorites in 1994 without him.

Nobody had any faith in them.

[1987_Lakers]

We all know what happens to teams when LeBron leaves.

Even Miami who had a system only won 37 games when Bron left.

[3ball]

We all know what happens to teams when LeBron leaves.

Even Miami who had a system only won 37 games when Bron left.

15' heat missed Playoffs by 1/2 game despite Wade/Bosh missing 40

So they barely dropped off at all without lebron.. the 14' Finals already showed they had fallen to about a 1st round western team

But the reality is that all ball-dominator teams fall off without their ball-dominator like cp3 and nash teams in 12/13.. otoh, ball movement systems keep moving the ball with or without their star, like the raps, spurs, warriors or bulls

[1987_Lakers]

15' heat missed Playoffs by 1/2 game despite Wade/Bosh missing 40

So they barely dropped off at all without lebron.. the 14' Finals already showed they had fallen to about a 1st round western team

But the reality is that all ball-dominator teams fall off without their ball-dominator like cp3 and nash teams in 12/13.. otoh, ball movement systems keep moving the ball with or without their star, like the raps, spurs, warriors or bulls

Wade missed more games in 2014 than he did in 2015, not to mention they added Deng to replace LeBron, much better player than Myers. Dragic also played some games, but only 37 wins. lol.

[97 bulls]

Kevin Johnson led the 90' Suns to the WCF by defeating Magic's 1 seeded Lakers

KJ destroys Pippen as a better scorer and passer..

in addition to dominating Magic's Lakers, KJ averaged 28/6/9 against Hakeem's 94' and 95' Rockets in two 7 game series, including a couple 45 and 46 point ganes..

Now imagine if 90' KJ that destroyed Magic replaced 90' Pippen that collapsed against the Pistons in 7 games... So clearly, pippen simply won the "3-peat with MJ" lottery... He was lucky to play alongside the goat in a 2-star vs. 2-star 90's, where nearly anyone wins alongside the goat.

Kevin Johnson did not lead the Suns vs the Lakers in 90. Tom Chambers did. Chambers was the Suns best player in 90. I dont see what the point is. The Suns has their best player when they faced the Lakers in 90.

[SATAN]

Thoughts?

Myers wasn't a ball hog.

[3ball]

Myers wasn't a ball hog.

Jordan led the bulls in apg

[3ball]

Kevin Johnson did not lead the Suns vs the Lakers in 90. Tom Chambers did. Chambers was the Suns best player in 90. I dont see what the point is. The Suns has their best player when they faced the Lakers in 90.


Nonsense.. Chambers had a negative bpm in the 90 Playoffs


1990 ECSF

KJ................ 22/6/12 on 48%... 22 gamescore
Chambers.... 21/6/2 on 42%.... 11 gamescore


1990 Playoffs

KJ ............... 21 PER... 6.1 BPM.. 0.148 ws/48.. 1.2 VORP
Chambers... 14 PER... -0.5 BPM.. 0.082 ws/48 .. 0.2 VORP

It's not even close... KJ was the leader that took on Magic, while chambers was a lessor factor.. otoh, grant and Kukoc led pippen in the 94' Playoffs

[8Ball]

The 93 and 94 Bulls are like 2019 and 2020 Raptors.

Stacked full of talent and able to lead a team to 55+ wins without their main star.

Kawhi leaves, they replace him with nothing and they still go in 60 win pace.

[3ball]

It's like 2019 and 2020 Raptors.

Stacked full of talent and able to lead a team to 55+ wins without their main star.

Lowry led the raps to 55 wins

Pippen was a Lowry-level player except with worse stats

[8Ball]

So Jordan was gifted a 55 win talent team for a decade straight.

[3ball]

So Jordan was gifted a 55 win talent team for a decade straight.

Jordan built a lottery cast into dynasty.. they needed to 3-peat before they could win 55

Dynasties play good enough basketball to win 55 without their star

A simple rebounder was their 2nd option, so they won via 3-peat brand and know-how, not talent

[8Ball]

Jerry Krause built the team. Not Jordan.

Jerry Krause knew Jordan did not have the basketball IQ to be a team builder, look at Charlotte, look at the Wizards. So Jerry rightfully ignored Jordan while building the entire team for him.


Meanwhile LeBron is literally called "LeGM" Because LeBron does the GM duties himself and builds the entire championship calibre teams every where he goes.

[dankok8]

The 93 and 94 Bulls are like 2019 and 2020 Raptors.

Stacked full of talent and able to lead a team to 55+ wins without their main star.

Kawhi leaves, they replace him with nothing and they still go in 60 win pace.

That's a good comparison. How close do you think the 2020 Raptors were to a championship?

[3ball]

Jerry Krause built the team. Not Jordan.

Jerry Krause knew Jordan did not have the basketball IQ to be a team builder, look at Charlotte, look at the Wizards. So Jerry rightfully ignored Jordan while building the entire team for him.


Meanwhile LeBron is literally called "LeGM" Because LeBron does the GM duties himself and builds the entire championship calibre teams every where he goes.

Lebron needs 2 stars, or a sidekick to lead the entire league in playoff points

That's a lot more than pippen

[aceman]

Jordan built a lottery cast into dynasty.. they needed to 3-peat before they could win 55

Dynasties play good enough basketball to win 55 without their star

A simple rebounder was their 2nd option, so they won via 3-peat brand and know-how, not talent

This is your funniest argument - Jordan takes credit for season where squad shows how effective they are without him. Even for you this thinking is out there. Too bad didn't work for 1999 bulls that 3 peat chemistry

[aceman]

So Jordan was gifted a 55 win talent team for a decade straight.

Pippen missed 10 games in 1994 - record would've been better

[3ball]

This is your funniest argument - Jordan takes credit for season where squad shows how effective they are without him. Even for you this thinking is out there. Too bad didn't work for 1999 bulls that 3 peat chemistry

The 94' bulls had a rebounder at 2nd option.. So they didn't win via talent - they won via 3-peat system, which MJ built and allowed to exist

You're just ignorant

[1987_Lakers]

The 94' bulls had a rebounder at 2nd option.. So they didn't win via talent - they won via 3-peat system, which MJ built and allowed to exist

You're just ignorant

Wrong, Phil Jackson built the system. MJ has 0 rings without it. LeBron IS the system and has proven Bron ball wins championships.

[aj1987]

Wade missed more games in 2014 than he did in 2015, not to mention they added Deng to replace LeBron, much better player than Myers. Dragic also played some games, but only 37 wins. lol.

Watch the retard completely ignore this post. :roll:

[3ball]

Wrong, Phil Jackson built the system. MJ has 0 rings without it. LeBron IS the system and has proven Bron ball wins championships.

Phil has zero rings without MJ or his clone and the triangle was nothing for 50 years until MJ/Kobe.... then it won 11 rings in 18 years

They invented the footwork needed to maximize production in that offense.. and they were the goat bailout artists that the offense required - the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a bailout on 20% of possessions, so it was nothing for 50 years until the goat bailout artists came along (mj/kobe).. goat bailout artists are the key that unlocks the triangle's greatness

you're simply unaware that the triangle needs bailouts throughout the game and requires certain footwork to maximize production - so the offense was nothing for 50 years until MJ/kobe got a hold of it

[1987_Lakers]

Phil has zero rings without MJ or his clone and the triangle was nothing for 50 years until MJ/Kobe.... then it won 11 rings in 18 years

They invented the footwork needed to maximize production in that offense.. and they were the goat bailout artists that the offense required - the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a bailout on 20% of possessions, so it was nothing for 50 years until the goat bailout artists came along (mj/kobe).. goat bailout artists are the key that unlocks the triangle's greatness

you're simply unaware that the triangle needs bailouts throughout the game and requires certain footwork to maximize production - so the offense was nothing for 50 years until MJ/kobe got a hold of it

If you are actually knew the history of the NBA you would know the '67 Sixers used the Triangle offense and won a title. They didn't have a bail out player.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-oct-11-sp-21261-story.html

MJ has zero rings without Phil.

[3ball]

If you are actually knew the history of the NBA you would know the '67 Sixers used the Triangle offense and won a title. They didn't have a bail out player.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-oct-11-sp-21261-story.html

MJ has zero rings without Phil.

The 67' Sixers didn't use the triangle

They used some of the concepts but not the entire offense.

And regardless, that was wilt's most stacked team.. wilt, mj and kobe.. the 3 goat offensive players

Ultimately, the offense was nothing until MJ and his clone put it on the map..

Phil was a 1st time, nobody coach when he won in 1991 and mj was the goat candidate.. Phil had to win 72 just to get coach of the year with mj... Just think - if he doesn't win 70, he never gets coach of the year despite 6 rings

[r0drig0lac]

Jordan so good he gets credit for team he's not on

:bowdown::bowdown:

[97 bulls]

Nonsense.. Chambers had a negative bpm in the 90 Playoffs


1990 ECSF

KJ................ 22/6/12 on 48%... 22 gamescore
Chambers.... 21/6/2 on 42%.... 11 gamescore


1990 Playoffs

KJ ............... 21 PER... 6.1 BPM.. 0.148 ws/48.. 1.2 VORP
Chambers... 14 PER... -0.5 BPM.. 0.082 ws/48 .. 0.2 VORP

It's not even close... KJ was the leader that took on Magic, while chambers was a lessor factor.. otoh, grant and Kukoc led pippen in the 94' Playoffs

Stick to your own talking point. You brought up the Suns upsetting the Lakers and Kevin Johnson's role as what you perceived leading that 90 Suns team over the Lakers.

KJ had a bad series vs the Lakers. Chambers was the Suns best player. Johnson was only 23. Chambers was established. He finished 8th in MVP voting in 90. Nobody believed that Johnson was the Suns best player.

And Chambers had a much better series vs the Lakers as opposed to Johnson.

Pick another example.

[Axe]

The 67' Sixers didn't use the triangle

They used some of the concepts but not the entire offense.

And regardless, that was wilt's most stacked team.. wilt, mj and kobe.. the 3 goat offensive players

Ultimately, the offense was nothing until MJ and his clone put it on the map..

Phil was a 1st time, nobody coach when he won in 1991 and mj was the goat candidate.. Phil had to win 72 just to get coach of the year with mj... Just think - if he doesn't win 70, he never gets coach of the year despite 6 rings
Lol you really are the kind to pick a chipless coach over a veteran championship coach, aren't you?

[NBASTATMAN]

Mj never had a winning record when pippen wasnt on the team... End this thread.. Mj shouldnt even be top 5

[TheCorporation]

That's a wrap

LBJ > MJ