6-0 with two three-peats is the highest team ceiling ever in modern era

[3ball]

It's the best we've ever seen.. :confusedshrug:

[Baller789]

No.

4-10 is better.

-Bran Stan

[8Ball]

"Team ceiling". Modern day Warriors would wipe the floor with Jordan bulls.

And LeBron still a greater player than Jordan. More skilled, better basketball specimen. 13 All-NBA first teams.

[Axe]

Watered-down era

[Baller789]

"Team ceiling". Modern day Warriors would wipe the floor with Jordan bulls.

And LeBron still a greater player than Jordan. More skilled, better basketball specimen. 13 All-NBA first teams.

Modern day warriors are underachievers. Modern day Warriors vs the Bulls is a stupid matchup.bec
They are from different eras.

And how is Lebons skills in:
Free throws
Mid range jumper
3 point shooting
Footwork
Post play
Off ball
Go to move in the clutch

[TheCorporation]

7,491 points is :lol

Keep up

[Baller789]

7,491 points is :lol

Keep up

4/10

[2ball]

What was MJ’s competition?

[Baller789]

What was MJ’s competition?


4/10 not even 50% yikes.

[2ball]

What was MJ’s competition?

Anyone?

[3ball]

13 All-NBA first teams.



Jordan's all-nba came with all-defense (top 5 DPOY) and scoring title, while lebron's all-nba comes with no all-defense in 7 years and #15 scorer (2nd option on own team)

NEXT!






"Team ceiling". Modern day Warriors would wipe the floor with Jordan bulls.




Not the Curry Warriors - anyone can beat them.. even bum Kawhi that lost a 3-1 lead to Jokic beat the brakes off Curry

KD made them legit but they still wouldn't beat the bulls - even if healthy KD three-peated in 19', Jordan did that TWICE.






And LeBron still a greater player than Jordan. More skilled, better basketball specimen.



When Jordan played PG, they said he was a better PG than Magic

No one ever said lebron was a better PG than Magic

So Jordan was a better ball-dominator, and he's the only guy to average 10+ apg without playing PG, so he's a better passer in a ways

[Baller789]

Anyone?

He was against milkmen and mechanics right?

[Baller789]

Jordan's all-nba came with all-defense (top 5 DPOY) and scoring title, while lebron's all-nba comes with no all-defense in 7 years and #15 scorer (2nd option on own team)

NEXT!





Not the Curry Warriors - anyone can beat them.. even bum Kawhi that lost a 3-1 lead to Jokic beat the brakes off Curry

KD made them legit but they still wouldn't beat the bulls - even if healthy KD three-peated in 19', Jordan did that TWICE.




When Jordan played PG, they said he would as a better PG than Magic

No one ever said lebron was a better PG than Magic

So Jordan was a better ball-dominator, and he's the only guy to average 10+ apg without playing PG, so he's a better passer in a ways

Don't forget the Warriors almost lost to the Rockets.
People talk as if GSW were some invincible juggernauts.

[Axe]

Going 6-0 against his rivals in the finals only meant that mj was very selfish after all

[Axe]

Don't forget the Warriors almost lost to the Rockets.
People talk as if GSW were some invincible juggernauts.
Well they were the only team that made five straight finals in the league not named the boston celtics dummy

[3ball]

Going 6-0 against his rivals in the finals only meant that mj was very selfish after all

6-0 means that Jordan resulted in an offense and team more dominant than the Warriors, with far less help

Otoh, lebron gets gobs of talent that frequently outplay him, but his brand sucks so he fields weak, underdog teams, 4/10

[Baller789]

Well they were the only team that made five straight finals in the league not named the boston celtics dummy

Yeah. And they lost a 3-1 lead whilst being a 73 win team.
If that isn't underachieving I don't know what is.

[2ball]

Why couldn’t MJ make it a rivalry with Bird and Isiah?

[Axe]

6-0 means that Jordan resulted in an offense and team more dominant than the Warriors, with far less help
He's still selfish, since he never gave his western opponens any wins there. Yikes.

He's not generous after all.

[Axe]

Otoh, lebron gets gobs of talent that frequently outplay him, but his brand sucks so he fields weak, underdog teams, 4/10
4/10 meant bran was being generous to more than half of his finals opponents at least. That's why they still treat him with respect.

[Baller789]

Why couldn’t MJ make it a rivalry with Bird and Isiah?

Did their physical and team's prime meet?

[Baller789]

4/10 meant bran was being generous to more than half of his finals opponents at least. That's why they still treat him with respect.

*Mental gymnastics detected*

[HBK_Kliq_2]

It was the perfect dynasty. Jordan, Pippen, Phil.

That's why you're delusional if you think it was a one man team. Now 2019 raptors? That was a 1 man team.

[Baller789]

It was the perfect dynasty. Jordan, Pippen, Phil.

That's why you're delusional if you think it was a one man team. Now 2019 raptors? That was a 1 man team.

Eh? I'm pretty sure some of the Raptors played well.

[Axe]

It was the perfect dynasty. Jordan, Pippen, Phil.

That's why you're delusional if you think it was a one man team. Now 2019 raptors? That was a 1 man team.
This bitch suddenly bringing up the eastern champs last year just to prop up his hero as usual

[StrongLurk]

Bulls won in a watered down era...MJ is still GOAT, but those bulls teams wouldn't win 60 rings in the 80's, 2000's or 2010's.

[3ball]

Bulls won in a watered down era...MJ is still GOAT, but those bulls teams wouldn't win 60 rings in the 80's, 2000's or 2010's.

No they won in a 2-star vs 2-star format, where anyone wins alongside the goat

So it shouldn't shock you that mj won with weak sidekick stats, yet you guys explain it with the defense argument... Even though the bulls usually had a worse team defense in the first 3-peat Finals and ECF...

Ultimately...

Just because lebron faced big 3's, it means nothing if he had big 3's himself... Actual talent deficits is what matters, and mj faced more

[2ball]

No they won in a 2-star vs 2-star format, where anyone wins alongside the goat

Just because lebron faced big 3's, it means nothing if he had big 3's himself... Actual talent deficits is what matters, and mj faced more

MJ never faced a team that colluded like the Warriors. LeBron is the only player to beat a 3 star format team with a 2 star team

[StrongLurk]

No they won in a 2-star vs 2-star format, where anyone wins alongside the goat

So it shouldn't shock you that mj won with weak sidekick stats, yet you guys explain it with the defense argument... Even though the bulls usually had a worse team defense in the first 3-peat Finals and ECF...

Ultimately...

Just because lebron faced big 3's, it means nothing if he had big 3's himself... Actual talent deficits is what matters, and mj faced more

You've admitted it multiple times that the Bulls would only win 2-3 chips in the 80's...but I'm not surprised you are contradicting yourself, you have no integrity on this board.

[Axe]

Bulls won in a watered down era...MJ is still GOAT, but those bulls teams wouldn't win 60 rings in the 80's, 2000's or 2010's.
That's obviously beyond impossible :roll:

[3ball]

You've admitted it multiple times that the Bulls would only win 2-3 chips in the 80's...but I'm not surprised you are contradicting yourself, you have no integrity on this board.

You have poor reading comp because my post is consistent with a few rings in the 80's.. I basically said that Jordan only won 6 in the 90's because the goat wins with anyone in a 2-star vs 2-star format.. the goat had more influence/weight in 2-star vs 2-star than 3-star vs 3-star format...

[light]

The weakest era.

The weakest competition.

Going to have to disagree on that one.

Under those conditions only managing to go three times in a row max is a disappointment. They should've done better.

[3ball]

The weakest era.

The weakest competition.

Going to have to disagree on that one.

Under those conditions only managing to go three times in a row max is a disappointment. They should've done better.

Pippen nearly beat the Knicks in 94' with 21 on 40%

So mj wins easily in pippen's place.. Then he beats Hakeem because Ewing almost did so with 18 on 35%

So mj clearly would've won 8 in a row if he didn't retire or at least 7 of 8 (I think Drexler gives mj a run in 95')

Btw, mj doesn't retire if he loses to Barkley in 93'.. only unprecedented domination and winning allowed him to properly mourn his father with baseball

[StrongLurk]

You have poor reading comp because my post is consistent with a few rings in the 80's.. I basically said that Jordan only won 6 in the 90's because the goat wins with anyone in a 2-star vs 2-star format.. the goat had more influence/weight in 2-star vs 2-star than 3-star vs 3-star format...

So you think starting literally at 1990, the "modern" era began? Because that is what you are saying with your thread title and this post...so MJ/Bulls only win 2-3 rings in the "pre-modern" 80's, but once 1990 starts (when MJ started winning), the modern era began (nice coincidence).

[3ball]

So you think starting literally at 1990, the "modern" era began? Because that is what you are saying with your thread title and this post...so MJ/Bulls only win 2-3 rings in the "pre-modern" 80's, but once 1990 starts (when MJ started winning), the modern era began (nice coincidence).

2-3 rings with just 1 other star in the super-team 80's would be ridiculously goat

Now if 80's Jordan had a big 3 super-team like the Celtics or Lakers, then he wins every year like the 90's

All Jordan needed was a similar cast to what everyone else had and he would be undefeated...

That's my point about pippen - having Pippen didnt constitute "stacking the deck" - but teaming up with 2 stars does... 1 star should've been enough, but lebron wanted to stack the deck

So it's the deck-stacking that hurts lebron's legacy - he's a ring chaser from 2011 onwards

And btw, teaming up with the 2020 playoff scoring leader that led the team statistically is also stacking the deck

[StrongLurk]

2-3 rings with just 1 other star in the super-team 80's would be ridiculously goat

Now if 80's Jordan had a big 3 super-team like the Celtics or Lakers, then he wins every year like the 90's

All Jordan needed was a similar cast to what everyone else had and he would be undefeated...

That's my point about pippen - having Pippen didnt constitute "stacking the deck" - but teaming up with 2 stars does... 1 star should've been enough, but lebron wanted to stack the deck

So it's the deck-stacking that hurts lebron's legacy - he's a ring chaser from 2011 onwards

And btw, teaming up with the 2020 playoff scoring leader that led the team statistically is also stacking the deck

You are avoiding my point and what you said in the OP/thread title.

What you need to answer is simple. When do you think the "modern" era began?

[3ball]

You are avoiding my point and what you said in the OP/thread title.

What you need to answer is simple. When do you think the "modern" era began?

1980.. the start of 3-pointer basketball

[StrongLurk]

1980.. the start of 3-pointer basketball

Okay, so this whole thread is meaningless...MJ 3 peated twice because he played in the worst part of the modern era, and WOULDNT have two 3-peats in any other decade than the 90's...you've admitted this already.

Also, it doesn't consider the crazy differences in contracts and free agency in the recent NBA. No team would ever stay together long enough anymore.

[And1AllDay]

7,491 points is :lol

Keep up

game


What was MJ’s competition?

set


Why couldn’t MJ make it a rivalry with Bird and Isiah?

MATCH :oldlol:

[3ball]

Okay, so this whole thread is meaningless...MJ 3 peated twice because he played in the worst part of the modern era, and WOULDNT have two 3-peats in any other decade than the 90's...you've admitted this already.

He wouldn't have a 2-star team in the 80's - they would eventually get him more help (a 3rd star) to match the competition, but they didn't need to because they were entering the 90's

Without the help, 2-3 rings with a 2-star team is still goat in the 80's - that would be like lebron winning 3 rings with his first Cavs team

[light]

Pippen nearly beat the Knicks in 94' with 21 on 40%

So mj wins easily in pippen's place.. Then he beats Hakeem because Ewing almost did so with 18 on 35%

So mj clearly would've won 8 in a row if he didn't retire or at least 7 of 8 (I think Drexler gives mj a run in 95')

Btw, mj doesn't retire if he loses to Barkley in 93'.. only unprecedented domination and winning allowed him to properly mourn his father with baseball

MJ quit though, so... oops on that one for him.

You know how Russell has 11 rings and no one cares? People still think LeBron is better than him. The same thing applies to Jordan and 6-0 - no one cares - it's not a good enough argument to say that he didnt lose against weak competition - people still know that LeBron is the greater basketball player.

[Axe]

MJ quit though, so... oops on that one for him.

You know how Russell has 11 rings and no one cares? People still think LeBron is better than him. The same thing applies to Jordan and 6-0 - no one cares - it's not a good enough argument to say that he didnt lose against weak competition - people still know that LeBron is the greater basketball player.
Wilt a better player than russell in this aspect

[3ball]

MJ quit though, so... oops on that one for him.

You know how Russell has 11 rings and no one cares? People still think LeBron is better than him. The same thing applies to Jordan and 6-0 - no one cares - it's not a good enough argument to say that he didnt lose against weak competition - people still know that LeBron is the greater basketball player.

Jordan never lost to weak comp

So I don't know where you got that

Outside his rookie year, he only lost to the goat Celtics and Pistons... Then he lost to Shaq/Penny with a 17-game regular season to prepare after baseball and pippen wetting the bed as usual.

So he never lost to weak teams like the 09' Magic or 11' Mavs - only lebron lost to 1-star teams like that lol... :roll:..
(Oh shit another banger - only lebron lost to 1-star teams)

[And1AllDay]

you want

6 crack hoes

or

4 dime piece models

quality matters

:hammertime::hammertime:

[3ball]

you want

6 crack hoes

or

4 dime piece models

quality matters

:hammertime::hammertime:

How many 1-star teams did Jordan lose to?

Okay now how about lebron... How many as the favorite?

Yikes

[light]

Jordan never lost to weak comp

So I don't know where you got that

Outside his rookie year, he only lost to the goat Celtics and Pistons... Then he lost to Shaq/Penny with a 17-game regular season to prepare after baseball and pippen wetting the bed as usual.

So he never lost to weak teams like the 09' Magic or 11' Mavs - only lebron lost to 1-star teams like that lol... :roll:..
(Oh shit another banger - only lebron lost to 1-star teams)

Russell and Jordan are penalized because of the condition of the league in which they won.

Russell because the league was tiny and the playoffs two rounds.
Jordan because the league was weakened by expansion and talent diluted.

It’s important to note that criticism of the Bulls place in history because of the condition of the league happened in real time in the 90’s. Even some of the Bulls players agreed that the competition in the 90’s was weak. That argument was not created as a defense for LeBron.

There is nothing Jordan can do about this now. It is what it is. Like Russell, Jordan's rings have a bit less meaning than if he won in other eras.

[Axe]

Russell and Jordan are penalized because of the condition of the league in which they won.

Russell because the league was tiny and the playoffs two rounds.
Jordan because the league was weakened by expansion and talent diluted.

It’s important to note that criticism of the Bulls place in history because of the condition of the league happened in real time in the 90’s. Even some of the Bulls players agreed that the competition in the 90’s was weak. That argument was not created as a defense for LeBron.

There is nothing Jordan can do about this now. It is what it is. Like Russell, Jordan's rings have a bit less meaning than if he won in other eras.
Who's your supervisor? May i know the whole script?

[3ball]

Russell and Jordan are penalized because of the condition of the league in which they won.

Russell because the league was tiny and the playoffs two rounds.
Jordan because the league was weakened by expansion and talent diluted.

It’s important to note that criticism of the Bulls place in history because of the condition of the league happened in real time in the 90’s. Even some of the Bulls players agreed that the competition in the 90’s was weak. That argument was not created as a defense for LeBron.

There is nothing Jordan can do about this now. It is what it is. Like Russell, Jordan's rings have a bit less meaning than if he won in other eras.

Jordan's rings would be the same in any era because he'd always get the help and he obviously wins the most with comparable help

Even tight owners will open up the checkbook for great players, like when the clippers got blake and deandre for cp3... Jordan would've won with them

Jordan/Kareem in the 80's win 11 straight from 80-90'.. magic sucks for only winning 5 with him and another elite 1st option worthy

Again, MJ is the only guy that never had an elite 1st option sidekick that could outscore him if necessary (a "Jordan").. otoh, magic/lebron always needed a "jordan" sidekick that could outscore them for entire playoff runs, like Kareem, Worthy, AD, 11'wade or 16' Kyrie.. whereas Jordan just needed pippen, a true 2nd option that didn't score much

[And1AllDay]

How many 1-star teams did Jordan lose to?

Okay now how about lebron... How many as the favorite?

Yikes

you want

6 crack hoes

or

4 dime piece models

quality matters

:lebronamazed:

[3ball]

you want

6 crack hoes

or

4 dime piece models

quality matters

:lebronamazed:

Lebron had more help - either 2 star teammates or a teammate that could outscore the whole league

Lebron teamed up with Kobe/Pau 2 and only went 2/4 including the goat choke and record loss... Is that really the best we've ever seen?... :whatever:

Then he goes 1-4 with Kyrie and only wins when kyrie outplays the warriors' "jordan"... yet the cavs still need 7 games because lebron wet the bed thru 4 (24 ppg and 6 TO's)

Lebron is a "pippen" because he needs a teammate capable of outscoring him for entire playoff runs .. Jordan is the only guy that didn't need that and only needed a pippen (a true 2nd option and inferior player)

[dankok8]

The 90's had superteams... 1997 Rockets with Hakeem/Barkley/Drexler. 1998 Lakers with Shaq/Kobe/Jones/Van Exel all 4 all-stars. It's not MJ's fault they couldn't make the Finals even once to face him. :confusedshrug:

[Hey Yo]

It's the best we've ever seen.. :confusedshrug:
It's definitely the best, from a superstar, in his prime, who needed a rest for 2yrs to achieve it.

In a league of his own. :oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

How many 1-star teams did Jordan lose to?

Okay now how about lebron... How many as the favorite?

Yikes
Lost to the Pistons 3yrs in a row.

88 and 89 Detroit with zero All-NBA players and then again in 1990 with Dumars being the only All-NBA player.

[Trollsmasher]

only the Lakers threepeated in the modern era and only once

[8Ball]

How many 1-star teams did Jordan lose to?

Okay now how about lebron... How many as the favorite?

Yikes

This guy did it many times.

https://theundefeated.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/AP_9006021290.jpg

[sdot_thadon]

Why wouldn't 11-1 with an 8 peat be considered an even higher ceiling?

[biggestnbafan]

It might be, but it's strange that this is often the MJ stan's reason for Jordan being better.

However,
-best coach
-Pippen (top 50 all time at the time)
-best rebounder
-best 3 point shooter (all time at the time) off the bench
-6th man who starts anywhere else

In a debate between two individuals, it makes no sense that 6-0 comes into the debate at all.