are you really running the offense when your out assisted by your own teammate?

[And1AllDay]

or are you just a work horse for the offensive leader?

bran led wade/kyrie/ad
nash led amare
pippen led mike
cp3 led blake

its ez to see who is the teams offensive leader.

who ever leads in assists

[trada7029]

.
Jordan led in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside pippen (full seasons) and assisted up to 30% more often than Pippen:



Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:

Jordan... 31.1%
Pippen... 23.3%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced


Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:

Jordan...22.3%
Pippen...22.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced


Jordan averaged equal apg despite less available shots to assist on (he took more shots and can't assist on those shots), so his assist percentage was always higher than Pippen's - aka Jordan assisted more often then pippen (33% more often in the playoffs), while leading in apg for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside pippen

[light]

or are you just a work horse for the offensive leader?

bran led wade/kyrie/ad
nash led amare
pippen led mike
cp3 led blake

its ez to see who is the teams offensive leader.

who ever leads in assists

There is absolutely no controversy when it comes to who ran the Bulls offense in the 90's.

Unlike MJ, Scottie immediately loved the triangle and took ownership over it and it became his job to make sure everyone is in the right positions on offense.

So, without question, the Bulls offense was run by Pippen. There is no disputing that.

[HoopsNY]

There is absolutely no controversy when it comes to who ran the Bulls offense in the 90's.

Unlike MJ, Scottie immediately loved the triangle and took ownership over it and it became his job to make sure everyone is in the right positions on offense.

So, without question, the Bulls offense was run by Pippen. There is no disputing that.

No one "ran" the Bulls offense. Stop lying. They ran a triangle offense that was not in need of a PG. Pippen was a playmaker, but so was Jordan.

I don't often agree with 3ball but he has a point about assist percentage, which helps to paint the entire story. Furthermore, let's look at an array of assist numbers.

RS 1987-98

Jordan: 5.5 Assists
Pippen: 5.3 Assists

RS 1991-98

Jordan: 4.9 Assists
Pippen: 6.0 Assists

Playoffs 1987-98

Jordan: 5.6 Assists
Pippen: 5.2 Assists

Playoffs 1991-98

Jordan: 5.3 Assists
Pippen: 5.5 Assists

NBA Finals

Jordan: 6.0 Assists
Pippen: 5.9 Assists

"Controversy"? They're about even, and that's not even factoring in the assist percentage numbers.

[dankok8]

There is absolutely no controversy when it comes to who ran the Bulls offense in the 90's.

Unlike MJ, Scottie immediately loved the triangle and took ownership over it and it became his job to make sure everyone is in the right positions on offense.

So, without question, the Bulls offense was run by Pippen. There is no disputing that.

LOL

You don't seem to understand the triangle offense very well. By definition no one player runs the triangle. It's an equal opportunity offense if there ever was one. Of course late in games MJ would just scrap the triangle and take the game over.

[light]

LOL

You don't seem to understand the triangle offense very well. By definition no one player runs the triangle. It's an equal opportunity offense if there ever was one. Of course late in games MJ would just scrap the triangle and take the game over.

Wrong.

https://s8.gifyu.com/images/PJ-Scottie-Overseer.png

[light]

No one "ran" the Bulls offense. Stop lying.

You're also wrong.

https://s8.gifyu.com/images/PJ-Scottie-Overseer.png

[FultzNationRISE]

or are you just a work horse for the offensive leader?

bran led wade/kyrie/ad
nash led amare
pippen led mike
cp3 led blake

its ez to see who is the teams offensive leader.

who ever leads in assists


LeFam got these boys on LEASHES :rockon:

[8Ball]

You're also wrong.

https://s8.gifyu.com/images/PJ-Scottie-Overseer.png

Are you telling me Jordan simply isn't skilled enough as LeBron?

[Manny98]

.
Jordan led in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside pippen (full seasons) and assisted up to 30% more often than Pippen:



Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:

Jordan... 31.1%
Pippen... 23.3%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced


Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:

Jordan...22.3%
Pippen...22.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced


Jordan averaged equal apg despite less available shots to assist on (he took more shots and can't assist on those shots), so his assist percentage was always higher than Pippen's - aka Jordan assisted more often then pippen (33% more often in the playoffs), while leading in apg for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside pippen

I watched Bulls games in the 90s and the ball was in Pippens hands a lot more than I expected

He was essentially the point forward of the offense

[dankok8]

You underlined a few random passages... We don't know the context in which those were said. Anyways...

Scottie wasn't the leader of the Bulls. It's just that Jordan was so hard on his teammates when they made mistakes that Pippen sometimes had to step in to stop guys from crying and losing their shit and punching MJ in the head or something. Pippen became tough earlier than the other guys and grew to understand MJ. And yes Pippen was a cerebral player. As was MJ but Pip was more approachable so guys naturally approached him more than Jordan because MJ's competitiveness got the better of him and he'd go apeshit if someone made a mistake.

[leBron Bieber]

You underlined a few random passages... We don't know the context in which those were said. Anyways...

Scottie wasn't the leader of the Bulls. It's just that Jordan was so hard on his teammates when they made mistakes that Pippen sometimes had to step in to stop guys from crying and losing their shit and punching MJ in the head or something. Pippen became tough earlier than the other guys and grew to understand MJ. And yes Pippen was a cerebral player. As was MJ but Pip was more approachable so guys naturally approached him more than Jordan because MJ's competitiveness got the better of him and he'd go apeshit if someone made a mistake.

Wasn’t the leader of the bulls of course but he ran the offense consistently to get the ball to Mike in his spots . No reason to sheet on pippen to prop Jordan .. same problem Westbrook has now but the difference is ,people make excuses when they want you to win but pull out a microscope to see you fail

[dankok8]

Wasn’t the leader of the bulls of course but he ran the offense consistently to get the ball to Mike in his spots . No reason to sheet on pippen to prop Jordan .. same problem Westbrook has now but the difference is ,people make excuses when they want you to win but pull out a microscope to see you fail

I never shit on Pippen. I think when people say he's not a top 50 player it's freaking laughable. But he's also not the best 2nd option ever. Truth is as with most things somewhere in between.

[HoopsNY]

Wasn’t the leader of the bulls of course but he ran the offense consistently to get the ball to Mike in his spots . No reason to sheet on pippen to prop Jordan .. same problem Westbrook has now but the difference is ,people make excuses when they want you to win but pull out a microscope to see you fail

MJ and Pippen played 9 years together on Chicago. There were many seasons where Pippen was the guy who did run the offense, but the flip side can be said as well. In addition, there were times during their championship run where Pippen was that guy, but the same can be said about Jordan. And there were some seasons where they shared that load.

The fact is that Pippen was a great playmaker and so was MJ. All you had to do was watch the games to see it for yourself. Threads like these and disingenuous fans trying to make it seem like Jordan wasn't a playmaker don't do any service to Pippen.

[3ball]

MJ and Pippen played 9 years together on Chicago. There were many seasons where Pippen was the guy who did run the offense, but the flip side can be said as well. In addition, there were times during their championship run where Pippen was that guy, but the same can be said about Jordan. And there were some seasons where they shared that load.

The fact is that Pippen was a great playmaker and so was MJ. All you had to do was watch the games to see it for yourself. Threads like these and disingenuous fans trying to make it seem like Jordan wasn't a playmaker don't do any service to Pippen.


Pippen was never "that guy" in the offense because Jordan assisted 33% more often in the playoffs, while scoring 10-30 more ppg in every series.. So pippen had the easiest load ever.

Pippen only averaged 5 apg without the goat assist target (mj) and wasn't a great playmaker because he didn't break guys down off-the-dribble... He couldn't start at point guard and average 11 assists like Jordan did

He was a product of the triangle.. his assists were basic plays and he was looking to get rid of the ball so he averaged 5 apg.. pretty ordinary

His passing is simply overblown because he's the only "pippen" sidekick in history (never led team in scoring and actually never got within 10 ppg of leading the team)






MJ and Pippen played 9 years together on Chicago. There were many seasons where Pippen was the guy who did run the offense,




Jordan led the bulls in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside pippen, so how does pippen have "many" years leading the bulls

Pippen was never the man because Jordan averaged equal or more assists, and pippen is the only "pippen" in history - the only sidekick that never led the team in scoring

[Shooter]

There is absolutely no controversy when it comes to who ran the Bulls offense in the 90's.

Unlike MJ, Scottie immediately loved the triangle and took ownership over it and it became his job to make sure everyone is in the right positions on offense.

So, without question, the Bulls offense was run by Pippen. There is no disputing that.

100%

Mike needed someone to lead the offense for half of his chips. LeBron never needed that type of help because LeBron WAS the offensive leader:


https://i.postimg.cc/sD2cdjZP/Pipper-Over-MJ.png

[Shooter]

LeFam got these boys on LEASHES :rockon:

These bois are SHOOK beyond belief :lol

Pippen whipped his work horses into shape for championship runs

Pippen = Leader
MJ = work horse

:roll: Too funny

[3ball]

Lots of guys are like lebron because lots of guys lead in assists every time, like Magic, Isiah, Nash or Stockton

But only 1 guy led in scoring for every playoff run... and by 10-20 ppg margin every time!!! (carry-job)... Infact, he led every series by 10-30 ppg!!

This matters because Kareem and Worthy outscored Magic for entire playoff runs, while Wade and AD outscored Lebron in 11' and 20' (Kyrie matched him in 16')... And Kobe outscored Shaq and vice versa..

So everyone in history needed a "Jordan" capable of outscoring them, while Jordan only needed a Pippen, who averaged 10-30 less than Jordan in every series (with less career apg)..

Essentially, Jordan is the first Jordan (someone that just needs a pippen), while everyone else in history is a pippen that needs a Jordan (someone to outscore them)..

so needing just pippen is unprecedented and infact goat, not a knock - everyone else had a 1a/1b situation, while MJ had a true 2nd option that scored far less and wasn't a big scorer

[Shooter]

Lots of guys are like lebron because lots of guys lead in assists every time, like Magic, Isiah, Nash or Stockton

But only 1 guy led in scoring for every playoff run... and by 10-20 ppg margin every time!!! (carry-job)... Infact, he led every series by 10-30 ppg!!

This matters because Kareem and Worthy outscored Magic for entire playoff runs, while Wade and AD outscored Lebron in 11' and 20' (Kyrie matched him in 16')... And Kobe outscored Shaq and vice versa..

So everyone in history needed a "Jordan" capable of outscoring them, while Jordan only needed a Pippen, who averaged 10-30 less than Jordan in every series (with less career apg)..

Essentially, Jordan is the first Jordan (someone that just needs a pippen), while everyone else in history is a pippen that needs a Jordan (someone to outscore them)..

so needing just pippen is unprecedented and infact goat, not a knock - everyone else had a 1a/1b situation, while MJ had a true 2nd option that scored far less and wasn't a big scorer

Pippen was the leader (think: Nash) and MJ was the workhorse (think: Amare) for 3 of 6 chips

Pippen led mike to 3 chips

[3ball]

Pippen was the leader (nash) and MJ was the workhorse (amare) for 3 of 6 chips

Jordan had 6 carry-jobs, while Lebron had 4 shared loads with equal-scoring partners (teammates averaged nearly the same ppg or exceeded him)

[Shooter]

Jordan had 6 carry-jobs, while Lebron had 4 shared loads with equal-scoring partners (teammates averaged nearly the same ppg or exceeded him)

• Bulls offense was led by Pippen 3 times (50%) and Jordan 3 times (50%)
• LeBron has always led his offense (100% of the time).

[3ball]

• Bulls offense was led by Pippen 3 times (50%) and Jordan 3 times (50%)
• LeBron has always led his offense (100% of the time).

But only Jordan carried the scoring load everytime, whereas many guys carried the assist load every time

Ultimately, Lebron had teammates outscore him, so he was carried on at least 3 playoff runs and many series

Whereas Jordan always carried the bulls.. every playoff run... Every series

[Smoke117]

Ordan Exposed.

1. Kareem
2. LeBron
3. Bird
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Wilt
7. Jordan

[Shooter]

You're also wrong.

https://s8.gifyu.com/images/PJ-Scottie-Overseer.png


Are you telling me Jordan simply isn't skilled enough as LeBron?

Wow

:lebronamazed:

We win again :hammertime:

[3ball]

.
Who led their team in assists for every playoff run?

Magic
Isiah
Lebron
Stockton
Nash
CP3
many more..


Who led their team in scoring for every playoff run?

only the goat




Btw, Wade led lebron in assists for the 2011 ECSF, 2012 ECF and 2014 ECSF, whereas pippen never led Jordan in scoring, and never even got within 10 ppg of Jordan

[Sulico]

But only Jordan carried the scoring load everytime, whereas many guys carried the assist load every time

Ultimately, Lebron had teammates outscore him, so he was carried on at least 3 playoff runs and many series

Whereas Jordan always carried the bulls.. every playoff run... Every series

What are you talking about?
Lebron have 4 rings, he was top scorer of his team in all 4 finals he won.

[3ball]

What are you talking about?
Lebron have 4 rings, he was top scorer of his team in all 4 finals he won.

Wade and AD outscored Lebron for the playoffs in 11' and 20' (Kyrie matched him in 16')... And Kobe outscored Shaq and vice versa..

So everyone in history needed a "Jordan" capable of outscoring them, while Jordan only needed a Pippen, who averaged 10-30 less in every series (with less career apg)..

Essentially, Jordan is the first Jordan (someone that just needs a pippen), while everyone else in history is a pippen that needs a Jordan (someone to outscore them)..

so needing just pippen is unprecedented and infact goat, not a knock - everyone else had a 1a/1b situation, while MJ had a true 2nd option that scored far less and wasn't a big scorer

[Gus Hemmingway]

Wade and AD outscored Lebron for the playoffs in 11' and 20' (Kyrie matched him in 16')... And Kobe outscored Shaq and vice versa..

So everyone in history needed a "Jordan" capable of outscoring them, while Jordan only needed a Pippen, who averaged 10-30 less in every series (with less career apg)..

Essentially, Jordan is the first Jordan (someone that just needs a pippen), while everyone else in history is a pippen that needs a Jordan (someone to outscore them)..

so needing just pippen is unprecedented and infact goat, not a knock - everyone else had a 1a/1b situation, while MJ had a true 2nd option that scored far less and wasn't a big scorer


Who outscored Lebron in the 2012, 2013, 2016, and 2020 Finals?

[3ball]

Who outscored Lebron in the 2012, 2013, 2016, and 2020 Finals?

^^^ Lebron barely averaged 2-5 more than his sidekick each time (shared load)

Jordan averaged 10-20 more than pippen each time (carry-job)



CAREER FINALS

AD......... 25/10/3 on 57%
Kyrie....... 28/4/4 on 47%
Wade...... 24/6/4 on 48%
Pippen.... 19/8/6 on 42%

Jordan.... 34/6/6 on 48%
Lebron... 28/10/8 on 48%

[Shooter]

Who outscored Lebron in the 2012, 2013, 2016, and 2020 Finals?

Bingo

No one

And he is 100% (4/4) ib leading his team's offense (ASSIST LEADER)

MJ is only 50% (3/6) in leading his team's offense.

[3ball]

Bingo

No one

And he is 100% (4/4) ib leading his team's offense (ASSIST LEADER)

MJ is only 50% (3/6) in leading his team's offense.

lebron shared the scoring load (equal-scoring partner)

and who cares about assists because Jordan had more team assists and better team offense... Who cares about personal assists with less team assists and worse team offense?..

Ultimately, excessive personal assists lowers team assists and team offense, so guys that get 5-7 apg win more than high apg players

(jordan/kobe/bird/durant/kawhi/curry <----- they win much more than magic/lebron/nash/cp3/harden/westbrook)

[And1AllDay]

so basically mike led his offense 3 of 6 times 50%
bran led his offense 4 of 4 times 100%

interesting

[trada7029]

so basically mike led his offense 3 of 6 times 50%
bran led his offense 4 of 4 times 100%

interesting

Lebron shared the scoring load 4/4 times

Jordan carried the scoring load 6/6 times

And assists are irrelevant because lebron had less team assists and inferior team offense (despite more offensive help)

guys that get 5-7 apg win more than high apg players

[And1AllDay]

Lebron shared the scoring load 4/4 times

Jordan carried the scoring load 6/6 times

And assists are irrelevant because lebron had less team assists and inferior team offense (despite more offensive help)

guys that get 5-7 apg win more than high apg players
so basically
mike led his offense 3 of 6 times 50%

bran led his offense 4 of 4 times 100%

interesting

[trada7029]

so basically
mike led his offense 3 of 6 times 50%

bran led his offense 4 of 4 times 100%

interesting

Wade led lebron in assists for 3 series

No teammate led Jordan in scoring in any series, or got within 10 ppg

Anything else?

[And1AllDay]

Wade led lebron in assists for 3 series

No teammate led Jordan in scoring in any series, or got within 10 ppg

Anything else?


pippen led mike for 3 championship years

no one led bran in asists in any year

pip led his offense 50% of the time
mike led his offense 50% of the time

bran led his 100% of the time

keep up

[trada7029]

pippen led mike for 3 championship years

no one led bran in asists in any year



Lebron was led by Wade in assists

No one ever led Jordan in scoring

[Shooter]

Wrong.

https://s8.gifyu.com/images/PJ-Scottie-Overseer.png

Wow. Devastating.