Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?

[Gus Hemmingway]

LeBron was an underdog for 3 of his championships

2012 - Heat were pre series underdogs vs the Thunder

2016 - GOAT underdog chip (beat a 73 win team while having no all star teammates)

2020- No one had Lakers as title favorites before season started, Clippers were betting odds favorite, Lakers were projected to be a 5th seed.

[Axe]

The big question is, why the hell does it always have to be baldan tho and not other atgs.

[kawhileonard2]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011_preseason_odds.html (Dallas 7th)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014_preseason_odds.html (San Antonio 6th)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_preseason_odds.html (Golden State 8th)


https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012_preseason_odds.html (Miami 1st)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_preseason_odds.html (Cleveland 1st)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_preseason_odds.html (Cleveland 1st)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd)


https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1991_preseason_odds.html (Bulls 4th), Beat the #1 Team Defending Champs and the #2 team in the Finals.

[3ball]

Bulls were big vegas underdogs heading into the 91' season and the media had the bulls as underdogs heading into the Finals (vegas had them as slight favorites by that point)

The bulls were like the Giannis bucks that picked up Paul George and then ended the Warriors' dynasty.. that's what the bulls did to the Pistons in 1991 (isiah/dumars/rodman were 29/27/29 years old)

[3ball]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011_preseason_odds.html (Dallas 7th)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014_preseason_odds.html (San Antonio 6th)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_preseason_odds.html (Golden State 8th)


https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012_preseason_odds.html (Miami 1st)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_preseason_odds.html (Cleveland 1st)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_preseason_odds.html (Cleveland 1st)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd)


https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1991_preseason_odds.html (Bulls 4th), Beat the #1 Team Defending Champs and the #2 team in the Finals.

Oh shit

OP knocked out like Nate Robinson

[Axe]

Oh crap. He's back guys. :biggums:

[3ball]

Oh crap. He's back guys. :biggums:


Comprehensive 1-9 annihilation


PLAYOFFS

1988 McHale.... 25.4 ppg
1988 Bird.......... 24.5 ppg

2011 Wade...'... 24.5 ppg
2011 Lebron.... 23.7 ppg

2020 AD........... 27.8 ppg
2020 Lebron.... 27.7 ppg

2016 Kyrie.'...... 25.8 ppg
2016 Lebron.... 26.2 ppg


^^^ Everyone in history had a teammate outscore them for a playoff run... So everyone needed a Jordan (someone capable of outscoring them), while Jordan is the first guy that only needed a Pippen (someone that averaged 10-30 less in every series, and less career apg.. a "true" 2nd option)

Furthermore, are lebron fans saying it's bad for Jordan to go 1-9 with 8 seeds (while averaging 44), but it's okay for Lebron to go 1-9 with 2 seeds (while wetting the bed with 22 ppg)?.. and if you're saying it's better to make the Finals, then let's talk Finals, aka 6/6

Finally... it's bad for Jordan to need an 8-point rookie to make the 2nd round, but it's okay for lebron to miss the playoffs with the East all-star center?... and then need additions like the COY and a pippen-stats player to make the 06' Playoffs?.. lol.. 1-9 is dead

[And1AllDay]

pippen = the reason mike was never underdog

pippen led the offense (most assists/playmaker of the team)

[3ball]

pippen = the reason mike was never underdog

pippen led the offense (most assists/playmaker of the team)

Jordan averaged more assists and higher assist percentage than pippen in the regular season and Playoffs

Do you guys even look at the stats before posting?

[Smoke117]

Bulls were big vegas underdogs heading into the 91' season and the media had the bulls as underdogs heading into the Finals (vegas had them as slight favorites by that point)

The bulls were like the Giannis bucks that picked up Paul George and then ended the Warriors' dynasty.. that's what the bulls did to the Pistons in 1991 (isiah/dumars/rodman were 29/27/29 years old)

Yeah, except that the Warriors have been much better than the 91 Pistons were, but okay. Also, I see you deleted your remark about the Bulls with one star defeating a Warriors like super team in the 91 Pistons. Good choice as that really would have made you look like an even bigger moron (if that's possible) when Jordan and Pippen led the 91 series in PPG and game score. :oldlol: On that note, those 3 guys you named game scores for that series: Thomas 11.4, Dumars 7.1, Rodman 5.0. Scottie Pippen? 20.2.

[Axe]

Bulls were big vegas underdogs heading into the 91' season and the media had the bulls as underdogs heading into the Finals (vegas had them as slight favorites by that point)

The bulls were like the Giannis bucks that picked up Paul George and then ended the Warriors' dynasty.. that's what the bulls did to the Pistons in 1991 (isiah/dumars/rodman were 29/27/29 years old)
The bad boy pistons stopped dominating the moment the flagrant foul was implemented into the league.

[And1AllDay]

Jordan averaged more assists and higher assist percentage than pippen in the regular season and Playoffs

Do you guys even look at the stats before posting?

i did and made a thread to roast you

pippen led the offense 4 of 6 years
mike led the offense in 2 of 6 years

[SATAN]

Yeah, except that the Warriors have been much better than the 91 Pistons were, but okay. Also, I see you deleted your remark about the Bulls with one star defeating a Warriors like super team in the 91 Pistons. Good choice as that really would have made you look like an even bigger moron (if that's possible) when Jordan and Pippen led the 91 series in PPG and game score. :oldlol: On that note, those 3 guys you named game scores for that series: Thomas 11.4, Dumars 7.1, Rodman 5.0. Scottie Pippen? 20.2.

:applause:

[Kiddlovesnets]

The bulls were underdogs in 1993 and 1998.

[3ball]

i did and made a thread to roast you

pippen led the offense 4 of 6 years
mike led the offense in 2 of 6 years

Jordan assisted 33% more often than Pippen and doubled his scoring average

So pippen had the smallest role ever

[light]

No, Jordan could never win as an underdog. He didn't have the ability like a LeBron to Hulk-out in the playoffs and play every position to make up for everything his team lacked.

[light]

Jordan assisted 33% more often than Pippen and doubled his scoring average

So pippen had the smallest role ever

https://s8.gifyu.com/images/PJ-Scottie-Overseer1b7291bfef46d413.png

Pippen had the most important role on offense. He made sure it ran.

Pippen's mastery of the triangle, coupled with his excellent leadership, was the reason why the Bulls were still successful without Jordan in 1994.

Pip was also the Bulls defensive "overseer", as Phil Jackson says in the above quote.

That means Scottie Pippen was the quarterback of the Bulls offense and the quarterback of the Bulls defense for all of Chicago's 6 titles.

Jordan didn't win a single title doing either of those jobs.

LeBron won 4 titles doing both Jordan's and Pippen's jobs simultaneously. On top of that he would also led his team in rebounding and blocks - covering the job of a PF or C.

Jordan was not capable of doing what LeBron does.

MJ was nowhere near as talented, nor as impactful, as LeBron James.

[Vino24]

Yikes another thread that 3ball gets bamboozled in

[TheGoatest]

Nope. Every one of his rings was won in a weak era against a bunch of scrub teams that couldn't even beat Hakeem and a bunch of role players after Jordan retired.

[FireDavidKahn]

LeBron has only been favored in 3 Finals series throughout his career. Just goes to show how tough his competition is and how much he had to carry.

Vegas odds at the start of the Finals:

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-playoffs-series/?y=all&o=s&fv=&hv=&fd=&rd=fnl

2020 NBA Finals Los Angeles Lakers (1) -350 Miami Heat (5) +290 Los Angeles Lakers 4-2

2018 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (2) -1075 Cleveland Cavaliers (4) +688 Golden State Warriors 4-0

2017 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -300 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +250 Golden State Warriors 4-1

2016 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (1) +180 Cleveland Cavaliers 4-3

2015 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +190 Golden State Warriors 4-2

2014 NBA Finals San Antonio Spurs (1) -155 Miami Heat (2) +135 San Antonio Spurs 4-1

2013 NBA Finals Miami Heat (1) -220 San Antonio Spurs (2) +180 Miami Heat 4-3

2012 NBA Finals Oklahoma City Thunder (2) -175 Miami Heat (2) +155 Miami Heat 4-1

2011 NBA Finals Miami Heat (2) -175 Dallas Mavericks (3) +155 Dallas Mavericks 4-2

2007 NBA Finals San Antonio Spurs (3) -450 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +360 San Antonio Spurs 4-0




LeBron never had any cup cake Finals matches like MJ did except for maybe this year.

[Baller789]

No, Jordan could never win as an underdog. He didn't have the ability like a LeBron to Hulk-out in the playoffs and play every position to make up for everything his team lacked.

So when Lebron went hulk and playoff mode last year...

What happened?

Did Thanos come and bitch slap his "hulk"?

[Baller789]

The big question is, why the hell does it always have to be baldan tho and not other atgs.

Becauae they just regurgitate what ESPN talking heads say.

They have no actual knowledge about other ATG.

BTW, calling Jordan, Baldan is corny af dude. Ya gotta think about something else.

[Smoke117]

https://s8.gifyu.com/images/PJ-Scottie-Overseer1b7291bfef46d413.png

Pippen had the most important role on offense. He made sure it ran.

Pippen's mastery of the triangle, coupled with his excellent leadership, was the reason why the Bulls were still successful without Jordan in 1994.

Pip was also the Bulls defensive "overseer", as Phil Jackson says in the above quote.

That means Scottie Pippen was the quarterback of the Bulls offense and the quarterback of the Bulls defense for all of Chicago's 6 titles.

Jordan didn't win a single title doing either of those jobs.

LeBron won 4 titles doing both Jordan's and Pippen's jobs simultaneously. On top of that he would also led his team in rebounding and blocks - covering the job of a PF or C.

Jordan was not capable of doing what LeBron does.

MJ was nowhere near as talented, nor as impactful, as LeBron James.

I remember seeing that article. That part where it ends at "Sometimes I'd gasp when an otherwise intelligent player would double-team when" is where he is talking about a player double teaming in a situation where he hadn't called for it and when he asked the player why they did it they would say "Scottie said to" and that was all the explanation needed. Also, it's pretty common knowledge Jordan wasn't a particularly vocal leader...especially during the first threepeat. Scottie was the player the role players started to look to for leadership as he was becoming a star.

[Axe]

BTW, calling Jordan, Baldan is corny af dude. Ya gotta think about something else.
And you're clearly butthurt about it.

Pfft.

[Baller789]

And you're clearly butthurt about it.

Pfft.

I'm not. It's mostly cringeworthy.
It's not like Jordan was the only balding NBA player you know.

[SATAN]

Yikes another thread that 3ball gets bamboozled in

this

[trada7029]

LeBron has only been favored in 3 Finals series throughout his career. Just goes to show how tough his competition is and how much he had to carry.

Vegas odds at the start of the Finals:

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-playoffs-series/?y=all&o=s&fv=&hv=&fd=&rd=fnl

2020 NBA Finals Los Angeles Lakers (1) -350 Miami Heat (5) +290 Los Angeles Lakers 4-2

2018 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (2) -1075 Cleveland Cavaliers (4) +688 Golden State Warriors 4-0

2017 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -300 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +250 Golden State Warriors 4-1

2016 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (1) +180 Cleveland Cavaliers 4-3

2015 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +190 Golden State Warriors 4-2

2014 NBA Finals San Antonio Spurs (1) -155 Miami Heat (2) +135 San Antonio Spurs 4-1

2013 NBA Finals Miami Heat (1) -220 San Antonio Spurs (2) +180 Miami Heat 4-3

2012 NBA Finals Oklahoma City Thunder (2) -175 Miami Heat (2) +155 Miami Heat 4-1

2011 NBA Finals Miami Heat (2) -175 Dallas Mavericks (3) +155 Dallas Mavericks 4-2

2007 NBA Finals San Antonio Spurs (3) -450 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +360 San Antonio Spurs 4-0




LeBron never had any cup cake Finals matches like MJ did except for maybe this year.


post the playoff odds for the 09' ecf, 10' ecsf, and 11' Finals (lebron lost all three as historic favorites).. And the odds were even in 2014 but he was beaten by record amount

So Lebron's Heat would've been favored entering the 12' Finals if Lebron wasn't the aforementioned trainwreck from 09-11' (above)

Furthermore, the Cavs were favored entering the 15' and 16' regular season, but underachieved in the regular season and were underdogs by the Finals (shit brand and underachievement of juggernaut talent).. So instead of flirting with 70 wins like curry and kawhi, lebron was winning 53 games with big 3's

Ultimately, Lebron fields vulnerable, non-juggernaut teams that usually aren't good enough to compete with elite chemistry and ball movement of the championship level.. he's a talent-based winner, which loses to organic chemistry (lottery record vs Mavs, Spurs, and Warriors).

[trada7029]

LeBron has only been favored in 3 Finals series throughout his career. Just goes to show how tough his competition is and how much he had to carry.

Vegas odds at the start of the Finals:

https://www.sportsoddshistory.com/nba-playoffs-series/?y=all&o=s&fv=&hv=&fd=&rd=fnl

2020 NBA Finals Los Angeles Lakers (1) -350 Miami Heat (5) +290 Los Angeles Lakers 4-2

2018 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (2) -1075 Cleveland Cavaliers (4) +688 Golden State Warriors 4-0

2017 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -300 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +250 Golden State Warriors 4-1

2016 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (1) +180 Cleveland Cavaliers 4-3

2015 NBA Finals Golden State Warriors (1) -220 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +190 Golden State Warriors 4-2

2014 NBA Finals San Antonio Spurs (1) -155 Miami Heat (2) +135 San Antonio Spurs 4-1

2013 NBA Finals Miami Heat (1) -220 San Antonio Spurs (2) +180 Miami Heat 4-3

2012 NBA Finals Oklahoma City Thunder (2) -175 Miami Heat (2) +155 Miami Heat 4-1

2011 NBA Finals Miami Heat (2) -175 Dallas Mavericks (3) +155 Dallas Mavericks 4-2

2007 NBA Finals San Antonio Spurs (3) -450 Cleveland Cavaliers (2) +360 San Antonio Spurs 4-0




LeBron never had any cup cake Finals matches like MJ did except for maybe this year.


post the playoff odds for the 09' ecf, 10' ecsf, and 11' Finals (lebron lost all three as historic favorites).. And the odds were basically even in 2014 but he was beaten by record amount

So Lebron's Heat would've been favored entering the 12' Finals if Lebron wasn't the aforementioned trainwreck from 09-11' (above)

Furthermore, the Cavs were favored entering the 15' and 16' regular season, but underachieved in the regular season and were underdogs by the Finals (shit brand and underachievement of juggernaut talent).. So instead of flirting with 70 wins like curry and kawhi, lebron was winning 53 games with big 3's

Ultimately, Lebron fields vulnerable, non-juggernaut teams that usually aren't good enough to compete with elite chemistry and ball movement of the championship level.. he's a talent-based winner, which loses to organic chemistry (lottery record vs Mavs, Spurs, and Warriors).

And it's a skill deficit. Lebron's inability to play the off-ball shooter role (ball-dominance) imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning, team-hopping)

[Gus Hemmingway]

post the playoff odds for the 09' ecf, 10' ecsf, and 11' Finals (lebron lost all three as historic favorites).. And the odds were basically even in 2014 but he was beaten by record amount

So Lebron's Heat would've been favored entering the 12' Finals if Lebron wasn't the aforementioned trainwreck from 09-11' (above)

Furthermore, the Cavs were favored entering the 15' and 16' regular season, but underachieved in the regular season and were underdogs by the Finals (shit brand and underachievement of juggernaut talent).. So instead of flirting with 70 wins like curry and kawhi, lebron was winning 53 games with big 3's

Ultimately, Lebron fields vulnerable, non-juggernaut teams that usually aren't good enough to compete with elite chemistry and ball movement of the championship level.. he's a talent-based winner, which loses to organic chemistry (lottery record vs Mavs, Spurs, and Warriors).

And it's a skill deficit. Lebron's inability to play the off-ball shooter role (ball-dominance) imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning, team-hopping)

Jordan LOST with an all star teammate in 1990 and 1995

LeBron won without any all star teammates in 2016

[Baller789]

Jordan LOST with an all star teammate in 1990 and 1995

LeBron won without any all star teammates in 2016
Lebron also lost as favorite in a playoff series. Cry me a river.

[guy]

Sportsoddshistory.com

Based on this, Jordan’s teams had better odds then everyone else or was tied for the best odds:
5x going into the regular season – 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998
5x going into the playoffs – 1991 (tied with the Blazers, but they won never having to face this team), 1992, 1996, 1997, 1998
6x going into the finals – 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998

Lebron’s teams had better odds then everyone else or was tied for the best odds:
6x going into the regular season – 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
6x going into the playoffs – 2009 (tied with the Lakers), 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014
3x going into the finals – 2011, 2013, 2020

Also, in 2020, I’d say you can still count them as effectively favorites going in the regular season and playoffs from their perspective since they never had to face the only team that had better odds going in, the Clippers – meaning it wouldn’t make any difference if they were ahead of the Clippers or not in odds.

So what does this tell me? Jordan won about as much as he should’ve, probably won a little more. And from regular season all the way to the finals, the perception of his teams didn’t change much, probably due to health and not a lot of underperformance.

For Lebron, he’s probably won a little less then he should’ve and should’ve won about as much as Jordan. The significant difference between the regular season / playoffs and the finals tells me there were probably some health issues (2015 most notably) but also just some underperformance relative to his team’s talent level (2012, 2016 come to mind), which I think odds are way more influenced by the earlier in the season. Of course, going from a non-favorite in the regular season to a favorite in the playoffs only to lose in the playoffs probably means you overachieved relative to the talent during the regular season (2009, 2010).

[trada7029]

The odds entering the season show on-paper talent

And the odds heading into the playoffs show how well the on paper talent played together (a function of skillsets)

[tpols]

The Bulls were +700 underdogs in 1991.

Lebron has never won a title with odds even close to +700... His Heat & Cavs teams were ~ +200 favorites every year, and this year they were a coin flip at +450.

[Smoke117]

The Bulls were +700 underdogs in 1991.

Lebron has never won a title with odds even close to +700... His Heat & Cavs teams were ~ +200 favorites every year, and this year they were a coin flip at +450.

Pretty stupid comparison. Up and coming team that finally got over the hump to teams put together to compete for championships.

[8Ball]

Before finals 2016:

Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden State Warriors

Pre-series:

Cavaliers +180
Warriors -210

After Game 1

Cavaliers +320
Warriors -380

After Game 2

Cavaliers +650
Warriors -1000

After Game 3

Cavaliers +400
Warriors -500

After Game 4

Cavaliers +1100
Warriors -2500

:bowdown:

Overwhelming underdogs vs a 73-9 Juggernaut.

It took herculean games from LeBron 5 6 to win it.

[8Ball]

Now Jordanites wanna bring up pre-season odds.... Running away from pre-finals odds where information is a lot more accurate. :roll:



Did Jordan ever win a series where he was massive underdog to win it at any point in the series? Down 2-0 against the Celtics maybe?

After game 4:
Cavaliers +1100
Warriors -2500

Never. Not even Jordan could pull that off.

[tpols]

Pretty stupid comparison. Up and coming team that finally got over the hump to teams put together to compete for championships.

Of course super teams will have much better odds. Miami opened up at +175 and lost. Chicago had to grow organically.

[trada7029]

Of course super teams will have much better odds. Miami opened up at +175 and lost. Chicago had to grow organically.

How did lebron's losses as the favorite in the 09-11' Playoffs affect his odds entering 12' playoffs and Finals - how did the low faith people had at that point affect odds in 12'

[8Ball]

How did Jordan going 0-9 without Pippen effect the following years win / loss when he finally added Pippen?

[Smoke117]

Of course super teams will have much better odds. Miami opened up at +175 and lost. Chicago had to grow organically.

The point is that the Bulls were only such an under dog because they were up and coming. I dunno what the odds for the Lakers to win it all in 2000, but I doubt they were great after being swept by the Spurs the previous playoffs.

[tpols]

The point is that the Bulls were only such an under dog because they were up and coming. I dunno what the odds for the Lakers to win it all in 2000, but I doubt they were great after being swept by the Spurs the previous playoffs.

The Lakers were +400 in 2000 behind only Portland who was close at +350. And yea... '99 Kobe and '90 pippen don't exactly measure up to Dwayne Wade when he joined him in 2010 summer. (team hopping)

What is your point?

[Kiddlovesnets]

The Bulls were +700 underdogs in 1991.

Lebron has never won a title with odds even close to +700... His Heat & Cavs teams were ~ +200 favorites every year, and this year they were a coin flip at +450.

Yeah and MJ won every time his team was favorite to win in pre-season odds, while Lebron only won 50% of the time that his team was favorite to win. Theres something about going 4/10 in the NBA Finals, and this is why he will never be comparable to MJ. MJ doesnt lose when hes supposed to win, Lebron is like flipping coins with luck.

[trada7029]

How did Jordan going 0-9 without Pippen effect the following years win / loss when he finally added Pippen?


Jordan was an underdog during 1-9, not the league favorite like 09-11' lebron

Furthermore, Jordan's 8 seeds won 30-40 games and therefore compare best to Lebron's 9 seeds from 04/05/19, except Jordan's was forced into the 8 seed by an 80's format that allowed most teams into the playoffs..

Lebron was simply lucky that a different format allowed his 30-40 win teams to miss the playoffs and avoid 8 vs 1 matchups with the 04' Pistons and 19' Warriors... it's hard to fathom how badly his 8 seeds would've lost given he was demolished with high seeds for 11 of 15 playoff runs - he was upset with 1 seeds in 09/10, and he went 3-16 with 2 seeds in 07', 11', 14, and 17', so that's much worse than Jordan's 1-9 with 8 seeds... And if you want to say "well it's better to make the Finals", then let's talk Finals, aka 6/6.

[SATAN]

Mental illness.

[LeCola]

Jordan LOST with an all star teammate in 1990 and 1995

LeBron won without any all star teammates in 2016

Kyrie
Love
M. Williams

[Baller789]

How did Jordan going 0-9 without Pippen effect the following years win / loss when he finally added Pippen?

How did 8ball not answer on many assist titles does Lebron have?

[Baller789]

Mental illness.

Lebron stans, yep

[8Ball]

How did 8ball not answer on many assist titles does Lebron have?

Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?

Baller789 "LeBron assist titles" :roll:

Baby boi confused and trying to deflect.

[Drygon]

LeBron was an underdog for 3 of his championships

2012 - Heat were pre series underdogs vs the Thunder

2016 - GOAT underdog chip (beat a 73 win team while having no all star teammates)

2020- No one had Lakers as title favorites before season started, Clippers were betting odds favorite, Lakers were projected to be a 5th seed.

The 2016 Cavs were title favorites before 2015-16 season started.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2016-nba-title-odds-vegas-says-lebrons-cavaliers-are-favorites/

[Axe]

The 2016 Cavs were title favorites before 2015-16 season started.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2016-nba-title-odds-vegas-says-lebrons-cavaliers-are-favorites/
And they still won over an overhyped 73-9 team

[Baller789]

Re: Does Jordan have an underdog ring on his resume?

Baller789 "LeBron assist titles" :roll:

Baby boi confused and trying to deflect.

So how many assist titles?