Winning Finals > Losing Finals > Losing Earlier Round [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

3ball

12-04-2020, 11:24 PM

Championship victories are the top accomplishment

So this idea that losing the Finals is okay because it's better than losing an earlier round isn't an excuse for having less top accomplishments (Finals wins).. Finals wins > conference finals wins.

And the 2nd place finishes were manufactured in plain view - big 3 super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning.. Yet the media laps up the nonsense and infact created the charade..

8Ball

12-04-2020, 11:25 PM

1-9 Without Pippen.

Bottom line.

3ball

12-04-2020, 11:29 PM

1-9 Without Pippen.

Bottom line.

1-9 with the worst teams is the lightest knock on a player's career.. ever

There's never been a weaker knock on someone

Otoh, lebron went 1-9 with super-teams and top seeds.. so he sucks by comparison

GrayGoat

12-04-2020, 11:51 PM

Why is MJ the only player in the top 5 goats shackled to one player for his entire success?

AirBonner

12-05-2020, 12:00 AM

Why is MJ the only player in the top 5 goats shackled to one player for his entire success?

That’s a wrap for the op :biggums::oldlol:

3ball

12-05-2020, 12:27 AM

Why is MJ the only player in the top 5 goats shackled to one player for his entire success?

They all needed a jordan-type teammate that could outscore them for playoff runs - only MJ could win all his rings with a pippen (someone that scored 10-30 less in every series).. he invented only needing a low-scorer as a sidekick

Kiddlovesnets

12-05-2020, 12:29 AM

MJ wasnt in his prime when he lost to Celtics, he was under rookie contract then. Lebron missed playoffs in his first 2 years, and no one holds it against him.

AirBonner

12-05-2020, 12:34 AM

They all needed a jordan-type teammate that could outscore them for playoff runs - only MJ could win all his rings with a pippen (someone that scored 10-30 less in every series).. he invented only needing a low-scorer as a sidekick

2014 Wade scored 14ppg in the final. (Worse than any version of Pippen)

3ball

12-05-2020, 12:45 AM

MJ wasnt in his prime when he lost to Celtics, he was under rookie contract then. Lebron missed playoffs in his first 2 years, and no one holds it against him.

From 85-87', Jordan's 8 seeds won 30-40 games and therefore compare to lebron's 9 seeds from 04', 05', and 19'..

it's random chance that Jordan's 30-40 win teams were 8 seeds, and therefore faced the champion Celtics, while lebron's 30-40 win teams were 9 seeds and avoided facing the 04' Pistons or 19' Warriors.. lebron only had high seeds in the playoffs and never had to carry his worst teams/low-seeds on runs like Jordan did.

It's funny that Jordan is bad for needing an 8-point bench rookie to make the 2nd Round, but it's okay for lebron to miss the 05' playoffs with the East all-star center, and need further additions make it in 06' (the coy and a 22/5/5 all-defender).

Or it's bad for Jordan to go 1-9 with 8 seeds, but it's okay for lebron to go 3-16 with 2 seeds, including the goat choke, a sweep and the record loss

AirBonner

12-05-2020, 12:50 AM

MJ came into the league as a finished product nearly scoring 30ppg (career average) his rookie year.

3ball

12-05-2020, 12:51 AM

2014 Wade scored 14ppg in the final. (Worse than any version of Pippen)

Wade averaged 20/5/5 in the Finals when needed against the Spurs

So who cares about carry-jobs against weak teams like the East - we all know that lebron never had carry-jobs against good teams - i.e. he never beat a Finals teams or any top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 17 years)

3ball

12-05-2020, 12:59 AM

MJ came into the league as a finished product nearly scoring 30ppg (career average) his rookie year.

Rookie Jordan entered the 80's Eastern Conference, which required a super-team with many hof's to win it - so the 1-star teams that routinely won the 00'' East wouldn't stand a chance (01' Iverson, 03' Kidd, 07' Lebron, 09' Dwight).

1987_Lakers

12-05-2020, 01:01 AM

Rookie Jordan entered the 80's Eastern Conference, which required a super-team with many hof's to win it - so the 1-star teams that routinely won the 00'' East wouldn't stand a chance (01' Iverson, 03' Kidd, 07' Lebron, 09' Dwight).

Bird beat MJ without McHale in 87

3ball

12-05-2020, 01:02 AM

Bird beat MJ without McHale in 87

Bird's 6th option > Oakley (jordan's 2nd)

But in 1989, the 6th seeded Bulls upset the #1 SRS team with only 15 on 40% from Pippen and the #11 defense... Otoh, the 09' Cavs lost to the #4 SRS despite 18 on 38% from Mo and the #3 defense

1987_Lakers

12-05-2020, 01:04 AM

Oakley averaged 20/15 in that series. No excuses.

3ball

12-05-2020, 01:11 AM

Oakley averaged 20/15 in that series. No excuses.

He shot 37% because he was a rebounder and far less than 2-time all-star Zydrunas

so the 87' Bulls (oakley) < 05' Cavs (all-star zydrunas)..

But the 87' bulls randomly made the 8 seed and were forced to face the goat Celtics, while the 05' Cavs avoided the champion Pistons as the 9 seed.

again, lebron only made the playoffs with high seeds and didn't have to carry his worst teams as low seeds like Jordan did

8Ball

12-05-2020, 01:35 AM

Why does Jordan keep making 8 seeds with Jordan ball before Pippen?

3ball

12-05-2020, 01:39 AM

Why does Jordan keep making 8 seeds with Jordan ball before Pippen?

Jordan was a playoff 8 seed with Oakley at 2nd option, while Lebron was lottery 9 seed with the East all-star center (Zydrunas)

So lebron is nothing compared to Jordan

Axe

12-05-2020, 02:49 AM

So basically 10x conference titles > 3x first-round exits

Shooter

12-05-2020, 02:49 AM

Why is MJ the only player in the top 5 goats shackled to one player for his entire success?

https://i.postimg.cc/2jPHTQ5t/OoOoo.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/0Q6YQT1B/tenor.gif

Koresh

12-05-2020, 02:55 AM

Axe

12-05-2020, 02:58 AM

Speak English, cocksmoker.
:roll:

Shooter

12-05-2020, 04:26 AM

Wade averaged 20/5/5 in the Finals when needed against the Spurs

So who cares about carry-jobs against weak teams like the East - we all know that lebron never had carry-jobs against good teams - i.e. he never beat a Finals teams or any top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 17 years)

Why is this retard getting a boner off of a Wade 20/5/4 series when Pippen averaged 21/9/7/2/1 on 46% for THREE straight Finals (91-93)

..2013 Wade vs Spurs: 19.6 - 4.0 - 4.6 - 1.9 - 1.3 (Def Rtg: 108)
91-93 Pippen in Finals: 20.9 - 8.9 - 7.4 - 1.9 - 0.9 (Def Rtg: 105)

Get fu**ed :lol

Manny98

12-05-2020, 08:19 AM

Oakley averaged 20/15 in that series. No excuses.
This MJ had more than enough help to at least not get swept in the first round back to back years

3ball

12-05-2020, 12:16 PM

Why is this retard getting a boner off of a Wade 20/5/4 series when Pippen averaged 21/9/7/2/1 on 46% for THREE straight Finals (91-93)

..2013 Wade vs Spurs: 19.6 - 4.0 - 4.6 - 1.9 - 1.3 (Def Rtg: 108)
91-93 Pippen in Finals: 20.9 - 8.9 - 7.4 - 1.9 - 0.9 (Def Rtg: 105)

Get fu**ed :lol

Finals

13' Wade..'.... 19.6 ppg... 4.6 apg... 47.5%
96' Pippen.... 15.7 ppg... 5.3 apg... 34.3%
98' Pippen.... 15.7 ppg... 4.8 apg... 41.0%
97' Pippen.... 20.0 ppg... 3.5 apg... 42.1%

CONCLUSION: Wade's worst Finals stats while winning > 96', 97', and 98' Pippen

people thought 13-14' Wade sucked because he'd fallen to prime pippen stats.. that's why I think pippen sucks - he's about the same as 13/14 wade

So again, lebron never had carry-jobs against good teams - i.e. he never beat a Finals teams or any top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 17 years)

8Ball

12-05-2020, 12:45 PM

AirBonner

12-05-2020, 12:49 PM

No Pip no chip!

Docs Orders

12-05-2020, 12:52 PM

No Pip no chip!

:banana:

3ball

12-05-2020, 12:58 PM

.
CAREER REGULAR SEASON

Wade.'.... 22.0.. 4.7.. 5.4.. 55.4 ts.. 23.5 PER.. 0.160 ws/48.. 5.0 BPM
Pippen... 16.5.. 6.4.. 5.2.. 53.6 ts.. 18.6 PER.. 0.146 ws/48.. 4.1 BPM

Kyrie...... 22.4.. 3.7.. 5.7.. 57.2 ts.. 22.2 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 4.5 BPM
Pippen... 16.5.. 6.4.. 5.2.. 53.6 ts.. 18.6 PER.. 0.146 ws/48.. 4.1 BPM

AD.......... 24.0.. 10.4.. 2.2.. 58.8 ts.. 27.4 PER.. 0.219 ws/48.. 6.3 BPM
Pippen... 16.5.... 6.4.. 5.2.. 53.6 ts.. 18.6 PER.. 0.146 ws/48.. 4.1 BPM

CAREER PLAYOFFS

Wade.'.... 22.3.. 5.2.. 4.9.. 54.9 ts.. 22.4 PER.. 0.155 ws/48.. 5.3 BPM
Pippen... 17.5.. 7.6.. 5.0.. 53.6 ts.. 18.4 PER.. 0.140 ws/48.. 4.9 BPM

Kyrie...... 23.5.. 3.3.. 5.0.. 56.0 ts.. 21.4 PER.. 0.169 ws/48.. 4.2 BPM
Pippen... 17.5.. 7.6.. 5.0.. 53.6 ts.. 18.4 PER.. 0.140 ws/48.. 4.9 BPM

AD.......... 28.8.. 10.8.. 2.8.. 63.3 ts.. 28.4 PER.. 0.243 ws/48.. 7.4 BPM
Pippen... 17.5.... 7.6.. 5.0.. 53.6 ts.. 18.4 PER.. 0.140 ws/48.. 4.9 BPM

CAREER FINALS

Davis.... 25/10/3 on 57%
Kyrie...... 28/4/4 on 47%
Wade..... 24/5/5 on 47%
Pippen... 19/8/6 on 42%

Jordan..... 34/6/6 on 48%
Lebron.... 28/10/8 on 48%

No pip, no chip.

That's the bottom line.

The is the first time LeBron gets to play with another player that made All-NBA 1st team the same year playing with LeBron.

Jordan had it twice.

The stats above prove that Wade, AD and Kyrie > Pippen, with better BPM, PER, WS/48, PPG and efficiency

Ultimately, Lebron needed 2 Pippens (2 stars) or the playoff scoring leader.. so that's a lot more than pippen - pippen didn't consitute "stacking the deck", whereas 2 stars or the playoff scoring leader does

LAmbruh

12-05-2020, 01:04 PM

if there is a chip

then there must be a pip

3ball

12-05-2020, 01:06 PM

if there is a chip

then there must be a pip

Everyone needed a "Jordan" teammate (someone to outscore them for playoff runs) - only Jordan needed a pippen (someone that scored 10-30 less in every series)

Jordan is the first guy that only needed a pippen

Stanley Kobrick

12-05-2020, 01:40 PM

ranch dip, tostitos chips

2ball

12-05-2020, 01:50 PM

No Pippen no chip n’

3ball

12-05-2020, 02:15 PM

No Pippen no chip n’

No Wade no chip

Nothing before Wade taught him

Wade, AD and Kyrie > Pippen, with better BPM, PER, WS/48, PPG and efficiency

Ultimately, Lebron needed 2 Pippens (2 stars) or the playoff scoring leader.. so that's a lot more than pippen - pippen didn't consitute "stacking the deck", whereas 2 stars or the playoff scoring leader does

8Ball

12-05-2020, 02:17 PM

No Wade 2 chips.

No Pippen 0 chips.

2ball

12-05-2020, 02:18 PM

No Wade no chip

Nothing before Wade taught him

LeBron won without Wade. He wasn’t shackled

8Ball

12-05-2020, 02:18 PM

if there is a chip

then there must be a pip

If it doesn't fit.

You must acquit.

No pip. No chip!

8Ball

12-05-2020, 02:19 PM

LeBron won without Wade. He wasn’t shackled

You mean shackles like this?

https://alccorting.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/shackles.jpg

Jordan's 6 rings are shackled to Pippen like white on rice.

2ball

12-05-2020, 02:21 PM

You mean shackles like this?

https://alccorting.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/shackles.jpg

Jordan's 6 rings are shackled to Pippen like white on rice.

Exactly :applause::rockon::banana:

8Ball

12-05-2020, 02:27 PM

Everytime 3ball mentions LeBron.

We mention "SHACKLES" from Pippen.

No pip, no chip.

3ball

12-05-2020, 02:42 PM

LeBron won without Wade. He wasn’t shackled

No felony, no chip - lebron colluded for all his rings

No Jordan no chip - lebron needed a sidekick capable of leading in scoring

No Wade no chip - lebron was a 1-trick pony before Wade, with only 1 Finals run like AI, Kidd, or Dwight

No playoff scoring leader or 2 pippens (2 stars), no chip
- title

sdot_thadon

12-05-2020, 04:08 PM

Yet somehow you think making a ton of shit threads > making a few good ones.....

Shooter

12-05-2020, 05:38 PM

Finals loss = 2nd
Finals win = 1st

1st rd loss = 16th :lol

Miss me with that 16th place three times :lol

Bronbron23

12-05-2020, 06:11 PM

Why is MJ the only player in the top 5 goats shackled to one player for his entire success?

Such a trash point. Penalizing mj because he didn't jump ship and collude. This generation is on some ish:facepalm

red1

12-05-2020, 07:40 PM

3ball

12-05-2020, 07:52 PM

5 losses are to the spurs and warriors dynasty level teams very very lopsided was still the best player in the world with the exception of the first cavs 07 run

4 rings and finals mvps now.

Stay shook 3ball. :pimp:

Lebron gets knocked for not having a better team than the Spurs despite better talent (Heatles)

And lebron didn't have Curry as his sidekick in 2017, but he had the guy that demolished curry (kyrie) - that's better than having curry - so lebron's cast was sufficient that year, yet he lost by near record amount

red1

12-05-2020, 07:57 PM

Lebron gets knocked for not having a better team than the Spurs despite better talent (Heatles)

And lebron didn't have Curry as his sidekick in 2017, but he had the guy that demolished curry (kyrie) - that's better than having curry - so lebron's cast was sufficient that year, yet he lost by near record amount

2014 wade was hobbled best player in the world = lebron
2015 kyrie and love injured best player in the world = lebron
2016 + 2017 most stacked team of all-time best player in the world = lebron

4 finals mvps. Top-2 all-time right now.

3ball

12-05-2020, 08:01 PM

2014 wade was hobbled best player in the world = lebron
2015 kyrie and love injured best player in the world = lebron
2016 + 2017 most stacked team of all-time best player in the world = lebron

4 finals mvps. Top-2 all-time right now.

Wade was lights out in the ECF and wasn't more hobbled than the fossil spurs

Spurs had simply solved lebron-ball and Wade was the casualty

And Kyrie > Curry, so lebron's cast was best in 16', and sufficient in 17'

red1

12-05-2020, 08:03 PM

Wade was lights out in the ECF and wasn't more hobbled than the fossil spurs

Spurs had simply solved lebron-ball and Wade was the casualty

just more talent top to bottom with wade out of the equation and haslem and ray allen on the verge of retirement.

How about the four (quatro) finals mvps though?

Manny98

12-05-2020, 08:04 PM

Wade was lights out in the ECF and wasn't more hobbled than the fossil spurs

Spurs had simply solved lebron-ball and Wade was the casualty

And Kyrie > Curry, so lebron's cast was best in 16', and sufficient in 17'
:roll:

red1

12-05-2020, 08:04 PM

wade will admit himself that he was done in the 2014 finals. it happens. it was his knees.

light

12-05-2020, 08:05 PM

3ball

12-05-2020, 08:10 PM

Winning Finals as LeBron > Winning Finals as Jordan

LeBron does more than Jordan. LeBron's competition is better than Jordan's. LeBron's finals wins are worth more than Jordan's.

Lebron doesn't do more because he never carried the scoring load while winning a Finals

Infact, he always got good scoring and efficiency from a sidekick when beating a Finals team or any good team (top 5 SRS).... So he never had a carry-job against a good team in long 17 years and massive sample. yikes

And his teams have a big 3 of offensive juggernauts and therefore were preseason favorites with more help than his opponents - so who cares about "comp" when lebron's teams had the most talent and almost never faced a talent deficit?

SATAN

12-05-2020, 08:11 PM

https://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/370/053/0d0.jpg

light

12-05-2020, 08:35 PM

Lebron doesn't do more because he never carried the scoring load while winning a Finals or facing any good team (top 5 SRS).... in 17 years.. yikes

And his teams have a big 3 of offensive juggernauts and therefore were preseason favorites with more help than his opponents - so who cares about "comp" when lebron's teams had the most talent and almost never faced a talent deficit?

As you know Bron has led all of his title teams in finals scoring. He is also the all time leading scorer in the playoffs and he's the 2nd all time leading scorer in the finals behind only Jerry West and ahead of Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

LeBron is a top 3 scorer of all time along with Jordan and Kareem.

Jordan didn't have much responsibility outside of scoring, defense and rebounding. He didn't call the plays. He didn't initiate the plays. He didn't set up or organize the offense or the defense. He wasn't their vocal leader. Offensive and defensive management & vocal leadership was left to Pippen.

LeBron does all of that by himself.

And in the end Jordan was just an on court player for the Bulls while LeBron is a player, coach, locker room leader and general manager.

So LeBron probably does 4x as much as Jordan when considering the locker room and the offseason where MJ had no influence because of Krause.

Axe

12-05-2020, 10:36 PM

As you know Bron has led all of his title teams in finals scoring. He is also the all time leading scorer in the playoffs and he's the 2nd all time leading scorer in the finals behind only Jerry West and ahead of Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

LeBron is a top 3 scorer of all time along with Jordan and Kareem.

Jordan didn't have much responsibility outside of scoring, defense and rebounding. He didn't call the plays. He didn't initiate the plays. He didn't set up or organize the offense or the defense. He wasn't their vocal leader. Offensive and defensive management & vocal leadership was left to Pippen.

LeBron does all of that by himself.

And in the end Jordan was just an on court player for the Bulls while LeBron is a player, coach, locker room leader and general manager.

So LeBron probably does 4x as much as Jordan when considering the locker room and the offseason where MJ had no influence because of Krause.
Duh. Lebron is the ultimate carrying machine, especially when you see the disparity he had with his teammates in cleveland.

Please don't be dumb.

light

12-05-2020, 10:38 PM

LeBron losing in 2015 > Jordan winning in 1992, 1993 and 1996

Shooter

12-05-2020, 11:29 PM

Why was retard OP getting a boner off of a Wade 20/5/4 series when Pippen averaged 21/9/7/2/1 on 46% for THREE straight Finals (91, 92, 93)

..2013 Wade vs Spurs: 19.6 - 4.0 - 4.6 - 1.9 - 1.3 (Def Rtg: 108)
91-93 Pippen in Finals: 20.9 - 8.9 - 7.4 - 1.9 - 0.9 (Def Rtg: 105)

Pippen led Wade in:
Points, Rebounds, Assists and Def Rtg

Wade led Pippen in:
Blocks

Get fu**ed :lol