Historical Seasons Adjusted to 2020

[dankok8]

When I say adjusted to 2020 I mean the pace is adjusted to 2020 levels (100.3) and TS% is adjusted relative to 2020 average (56.5).
Basically all volume stats are adjusted for pace but for ppg the TS% correction is applied as well. For example if they shot 55 %TS with the league average at 50 %TS I bump them up so they shoot 5% above the current league average.

Let's kick it off with Wilt's legendary 61-62 season.

Then: 50.4 ppg, 25.7 rpg, 2.4 apg on 53.6 %TS (+5.7 rTS)
Now: 46.5 ppg, 20.4 rpg, 1.9 apg on 62.2 %TS (+5.7 rTS)

Note that this assumes that Wilt still plays 48 minutes per game. His rebounding rates are comparable to Drummond and clearly lower than someone like Rodman. His assist rates are insanely low for a guy taking that many shots. He was really all shoot-no pass that year.

Then let's look at Oscar's legendary 61-62 season.

Then: 30.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 11.4 apg on 55.4 %TS (+7.5 rTS)
Now: 28.2 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 9.1 apg on 64.0 %TS (+7.5 rTS)

Then let's look at Kareem's legendary 71-72 season.

Then: 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, 4.6 apg on 60.3 %TS (+9.9 rTS)
Now: 34.9 ppg, 14.9 rpg, 4.1 apg on 67.4 %TS (+9.9 rtS)

Then let's look at Jordan's legendary 87-88 season.

Then: 35.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg on 60.3 %TS (+6.5 rTS)
Now: 36.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg on 63.0 %TS (+6.5 rTS)

Then let's look at Kobe's legendary 05-06 season.

Then: 35.4 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.5 apg on 55.9 %TS (+2.3 rTS)
Now: 41.3 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg on 58.8 %TS (+2.3 rTS)

Obviously the accuracy of this is questionable going 50-60 years into the past because everything about the game changed but these guys would still put up unreal numbers today correcting for league averages. Makes you appreciate these great players more!

If Harden could put up 36 ppg on unreal efficiency it's more than believable that Kareem and Jordan could slightly exceed him. And Kobe's 05-06 season is possibly the best volume scoring season ever. Lower efficiency but still above league average on very impressive volume.

[2ball]

More agenda drivel

[2ball]

Notice op leaves out magic, Bird, Isiah. All 80’s stars that fvcked MJ up. We have seen MJ in a similar pace (80’s) and it’s not a winning brand

[dankok8]

Notice op leaves out magic, Bird, Isiah. All 80’s stars that fvcked MJ up. We have seen MJ in a similar pace (80’s) and it’s not a winning brand

I'll put them up as well eventually. There is no agenda here. Sorry you think otherwise.

[2ball]

Another flaw is harden is a much better 3pt shooter than MJ. You would be asking MJ to hijack the offense and play a losing brand of ball

[dankok8]

A few more seasons added.

61-62 Bill Russell

Then: 18.9 ppg, 23.6 rpg, 4.5 apg on 48.9 %TS (+1.0 rTS)
Now: 17.7 ppg, 18.8 rpg, 3.6 apg on 57.5 %TS (+1.0 rTS)

87-88 Larry Bird

Then: 29.9 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 6.1 apg on 60.8 %TS (+7.0 rTS)
Now: 31.5 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 6.1 apg on 63.5 %TS (+7.0 rTS)

86-87 Magic Johnson

Then: 23.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 12.2 apg on 60.2 %TS (+6.4 rTS)
Now: 24.8 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 12.1 apg on 62.9 %TS (+6.4 rTS)

99-00 Shaquille O'Neal

Then: 29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8 apg on 57.8 %TS (+5.5 rTS)
Now: 34.3 ppg, 14.7 rpg, 4.1 apg on 61.0 %TS (+5.5 rTS)

[3ball]

It's also necessary to incorporate the record league ORTG (or DRTG because they're the same number obv)

Teams allow 2-6 more points per 100 possessions than prior eras.. and that's the average - good teams and players take advantage of the higher-scoring format more than others

Btw, I think you missed my response to a previous thread here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?488071-Who-s-to-blame-in-the-Bulls-losses-or-close-series-from-88-98&p=14198981&viewfull=1#post14198981)

[2ball]

You both need a labotomy.

[StrongLurk]

Not that easy OP. The Wilt line especially seems outlandish.

[2ball]

Not that easy OP. The Wilt line especially seems outlandish.

Yup and considering they played at an even higher pace lol

[dankok8]

Not that easy OP. The Wilt line especially seems outlandish.

Well it assumes he plays 48 minutes and the guy did shoot all the time and almost never passed.


It's also necessary to incorporate the record league ORTG

I corrected for league average TS%. If I wanted to be really analytical I could correct for turnover rates etc. but that wasn't even tracked throughout history so I kept it basic.

[AirBonner]

Another fantasy thread. Imagine LeBron being guarded by Reggie miller and that being his toughest opponent

[1987_Lakers]

Threads like these are always flawed.

1988 Karl Malone - 28/12/2 on 52 fg% - 101.5 pace
1997 Karl Malone - 27/10/4 on 55 fg% - 90.0 pace

Pretty much the exact same numbers despite playing in a slower pace in 1997. That Wilt translation to 2020 is especially ridiculous, you really think he averages 46/20 in today's league? Even if he played 48 mpg, that seems highly unlikely.

[SouBeachTalents]

Threads like these are always flawed.

1988 Karl Malone - 28/12/2 on 52 fg% - 101.5 pace
1997 Karl Malone - 27/10/4 on 55 fg% - 90.0 pace

Pretty much the exact same numbers despite playing in a slower pace in 1997. That Wilt translation to 2020 is especially ridiculous, you really think he averages 46/20 in today's league? Even if he played 48 mpg, that seems highly unlikely.
No way in hell Shaq would have the stamina to average 34 through an entire season either

[dankok8]

Threads like these are always flawed.

1988 Karl Malone - 28/12/2 on 52 fg% - 101.5 pace
1997 Karl Malone - 27/10/4 on 55 fg% - 90.0 pace

Pretty much the exact same numbers despite playing in a slower pace in 1997. That Wilt translation to 2020 is especially ridiculous, you really think he averages 46/20 in today's league? Even if he played 48 mpg, that seems highly unlikely.

It's obviously not foolproof going 60 years back because there's been too many changes in playstyle...

20 rebounds isn't impossible at all. His TRB% would be 22-23% which is less than Drummond's career average of 24.5%. 46 ppg seems very high but it's possible if the guy played 48 minutes and kept shooting and rarely ever passed the ball. I don't think people realize how putrid 1.9 apg in 48 minutes really is.
Wilt's team would be terrible.

Your Karl Malone example isn't exactly a proof of anything because most people consider 97 Malone better than 88 Malone. 97 Malone would put up better numbers in the 88 NBA.

[RRR3]

It's obviously not foolproof going 60 years back because there's been too many changes in playstyle...

20 rebounds isn't impossible at all. His TRB% would be 22-23% which is less than Drummond's career average of 24.5%. 46 ppg seems very high but it's possible if the guy played 48 minutes and kept shooting and rarely ever passed the ball. I don't think people realize how putrid 1.9 apg in 48 minutes really is.
Wilt's team would be terrible.

Your Karl Malone example isn't exactly a proof of anything because most people consider 97 Malone better than 88 Malone. 97 Malone would put up better numbers in the 88 NBA.
No coach plays their star more than like 37 MPG today how on earth is Wilt going to play 48 MPG?

[1987_Lakers]

No coach plays their star more than like 37 MPG today how on earth is Wilt going to play 48 MPG?

Not only that, but the 80's was a known fast break era, a young Karl Malone thrived on the fast break, he was perfect for that era, I highly doubt a less athletic '97 Malone puts up better numbers in '88 than he did in '97. Hell, Hakeem averaged more points in '95 than he did in '88 despite playing at a slower pace in '95 and Hakeem was already extremely skilled offensively by '88.

[RRR3]

Not only that, but the 80's was a known fast break era, a young Karl Malone thrived on the fast break, he was perfect for that era, I highly doubt a less athletic '97 Malone puts up better numbers in '88 than he did in '97. Hell, Hakeem averaged more points in '95 than he did in '88 despite playing at a slower pace in '95 and Hakeem was already extremely skilled offensively by '88.
OP just really got upset when people said Harden was one of the best scorers ever. That’s what this is about. He said Harden was “maybe too 30” all time as a scorer but curiously he couldn’t name 30 better when I asked.

[dankok8]

You guys are overanalyzing this too much. These are estimates that correct only for pace and TS%. They obviously disregard factors like stamina, physicality, tactical changes etc.

[RRR3]

You guys are overanalyzing this too much. These are estimates that correct only for pace and TS%. They obviously disregard factors like stamina, physicality, tactical changes etc.
Where’s my list of better scorers than Harden? Stop avoiding it. You wanna say something crazy like he’s maybe “top 30” then you really should tell us who’s better.

[AirBonner]

Ordan stans reduced to fantasies

[ArbitraryWater]

Look at the defense played in 05/06, that alone would be a reduction by 5 pts this year

[Marchesk]

Another fantasy thread. Imagine LeBron being guarded by Reggie miller and that being his toughest opponent

No worries, he'd be guarded by the likes of Pippen and X-Man.

[Marchesk]

No coach plays their star more than like 37 MPG today how on earth is Wilt going to play 48 MPG?

That just means Wilt's efficiency and assists go way up, like they did on the 76ers.

[NBAGOAT]

this is a very very bad adjustment mainly for the minutes reason. No big man in the league plays 35min but we expect wilt to play 48? There's more steps taken every year(yes that's a stat that gets tracked). Running around a lot is the easiest way to get tired. load management and injury prevention ofc is also a thing and is the other way minutes get capped. No smart organization right now lets like isiah play 37mpg every year and burn out in his early 30s.

[Xiao Yao You]

Not only that, but the 80's was a known fast break era, a young Karl Malone thrived on the fast break, he was perfect for that era, I highly doubt a less athletic '97 Malone puts up better numbers in '88 than he did in '97. Hell, Hakeem averaged more points in '95 than he did in '88 despite playing at a slower pace in '95 and Hakeem was already extremely skilled offensively by '88.

They had a different coach and were running in '88. Sloan put a stop to it. Stockton and Malone were never as good as they were that year when they had the Lakers beaten in the playoffs before Layden and Ivaroni gave it away

[Smoke117]

Not only that, but the 80's was a known fast break era, a young Karl Malone thrived on the fast break, he was perfect for that era, I highly doubt a less athletic '97 Malone puts up better numbers in '88 than he did in '97. Hell, Hakeem averaged more points in '95 than he did in '88 despite playing at a slower pace in '95 and Hakeem was already extremely skilled offensively by '88.

Hakeem had a shit load of talent, but he was still building his skill back in 88. He was significantly more polished in 95. People also forget he was a Zo level hot head back in those days.

[1987_Lakers]

Hakeem had a shit load of talent, but he was still building his skill back in 88. He was significantly more polished in 95. People also forget he was a Zo level hot head back in those days.

I agree, but if you adjust Hakeem's '88 numbers to the '95 Rockets, Hakeem is probably not even a 20 ppg player in 1995, which is utterly ridiculous and should tell you how you can't adjust numbers using pace from one era to another.

[tpols]

Today's NBA is a joke. I don't think I'll be watching anymore.

Football and MMA are the only sports really worth watching. Infinitely more parity and no true rigging.

[Baller789]

this is a very very bad adjustment mainly for the minutes reason. No big man in the league plays 35min but we expect wilt to play 48? There's more steps taken every year(yes that's a stat that gets tracked). Running around a lot is the easiest way to get tired. load management and injury prevention ofc is also a thing and is the other way minutes get capped. No smart organization right now lets like isiah play 37mpg every year and burn out in his early 30s.

Wilt did play 48 mins. In a season.

[Axe]

Today's NBA is a joke. I don't think I'll be watching anymore.

Football and MMA are the only sports really worth watching. Infinitely more parity and no true rigging.
Foh then lmao

[1987_Lakers]

Today's NBA is a joke. I don't think I'll be watching anymore.

Football and MMA are the only sports really worth watching. Infinitely more parity and no true rigging.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[dankok8]

Where’s my list of better scorers than Harden? Stop avoiding it. You wanna say something crazy like he’s maybe “top 30” then you really should tell us who’s better.

You lack reading comprehension. I never said there's 30 guys who are better scorers than Harden.


Look at the defense played in 05/06, that alone would be a reduction by 5 pts this year

Actually no... 05-06 has both lower pace and lower league average TS% than 19-20.

[iamgine]

When I say adjusted to 2020 I mean the pace is adjusted to 2020 levels (100.3) and TS% is adjusted relative to 2020 average (56.5).
Basically all volume stats are adjusted for pace but for ppg the TS% correction is applied as well. For example if they shot 55 %TS with the league average at 50 %TS I bump them up so they shoot 5% above the current league average.

Let's kick it off with Wilt's legendary 61-62 season.

Then: 50.4 ppg, 25.7 rpg, 2.4 apg on 53.6 %TS (+5.7 rTS)
Now: 46.5 ppg, 20.4 rpg, 1.9 apg on 62.2 %TS (+5.7 rTS)

Note that this assumes that Wilt still plays 48 minutes per game. His rebounding rates are comparable to Drummond and clearly lower than someone like Rodman. His assist rates are insanely low for a guy taking that many shots. He was really all shoot-no pass that year.

Then let's look at Oscar's legendary 61-62 season.

Then: 30.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 11.4 apg on 55.4 %TS (+7.5 rTS)
Now: 28.2 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 9.1 apg on 64.0 %TS (+7.5 rTS)

Then let's look at Kareem's legendary 71-72 season.

Then: 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, 4.6 apg on 60.3 %TS (+9.9 rTS)
Now: 34.9 ppg, 14.9 rpg, 4.1 apg on 67.4 %TS (+9.9 rtS)

Then let's look at Jordan's legendary 87-88 season.

Then: 35.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg on 60.3 %TS (+6.5 rTS)
Now: 36.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg on 63.0 %TS (+6.5 rTS)

Then let's look at Kobe's legendary 05-06 season.

Then: 35.4 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.5 apg on 55.9 %TS (+2.3 rTS)
Now: 41.3 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg on 58.8 %TS (+2.3 rTS)

Obviously the accuracy of this is questionable going 50-60 years into the past because everything about the game changed but these guys would still put up unreal numbers today correcting for league averages. Makes you appreciate these great players more!

If Harden could put up 36 ppg on unreal efficiency it's more than believable that Kareem and Jordan could slightly exceed him. And Kobe's 05-06 season is possibly the best volume scoring season ever. Lower efficiency but still above league average on very impressive volume.
The thing is, this kind of linear pace and TS adjustment doesn't represent reality. Today, they need to be able to shoot and defend 3s and won't play that kind of minutes, among many other differences.

It's like adjusting Steph Curry to the 60s. You have to adjust for no 3pt line and much lower competition, among many others, so a linear adjustment wouldn't work.