Wilt Chamberlain and the unofficial greatest Statline in NBA History

[k0kakw0rld]

https://zupimages.net/up/20/51/qxun.jpg (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/51/qxun.jpg)

:biggums:
Jesus Christ :lebronamazed:

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt is the Goat when you factor in talent athleticism and individual greatness as a player.



Dear god he owns over 100 Nba records since his retirement in 1973 and despite the fact that's it's almost been 50 years since then he has not had any of the majority of his records broken or in fact even challenged by any other player which is crazy.

[Manny98]

How many championships did those stats translate too?

[Axe]

How many championships did those stats translate too?
By asking this question, you are trying to downplay king kong's greatness as well.

[coastalmarker99]

How many championships did those stats translate too?

How many championships did Lebron second Cavs run result in one I repeat one and it could be called a complete fluke with green's suspension and Bogut's injury.






You have to remember that Wilt like Lebron was facing the most stacked team in Nba history and maybe sports history the Celtics of that time from the late '50s to 1969 were virtually unbeatable besides one year in 1967 where Wilt had the greatest single-season ever by a player.

[coastalmarker99]

How many championships did those stats translate too?

Also, Wilt got a hell of a lot closer to beating the stacked Celtics with their 8 to 10 hall of Famers every single year and hall of fame coach then Lebron ever did with the Durant Warriors.


Lebron got his ass kicked with three all-stars it's was not even close in 2017 and also had Durant deliver a dagger into his heart both years on his home court in the finals.




Compare to that with Wilt who was usually taking the Celtics to a tough 7 game series and barely losing by a point or two Wilt lost 4 combined game 7's to the Celtic's by only 9 points. Just think if 10 points goes another way then Wilt ends up with 6 rings for his career then 2.

[coastalmarker99]

How many championships did those stats translate too?

It should be noted that Lebron was a monster individually from 2015 to 2020 and yet if the Durant Warriors kept themselves together and were fully healthy they most likely would have four peated from 2017 to 2020 keeping Lebron struck on 3 rings despite the fact that over that 5 year stretch from 2016 to 2020 he had played better then he ever had during his career.



So people like Manny should note context and remember that hey Wilt for the first 10 years of his career was facing the greatest dynasty in sports history with much inferior rosters and still taking them the distance most years so any criticism of Wilt not being able to win more titles during that era should be applied to everyone else as well.




1-7 Wilt's PO-series record vs. Celtics.

1-22 every other team's PO record vs. Celtics from 1957 to 1969 and that one win came when Russell was injured in the 1958 finals so that could be 23 and 0 against every team besides Wilt's 1967 76ers for the Celtic's.

17-4 Wilt's PO record against every other team and note that in the 1970 finals Wilt was seriously hurt and shouldn't have even been playing in the first place. That season after his knee injury that he had sustained earlier in the year which caused him to miss 70 games of that season.

Along with that in the 1971 Wcf against the Bucks with a prime Kareem on their team, Wilt had both his sidekicks out as Lebron had in 2015. Yet, he somehow still managed to get a game off that team without both Baylor and West so that record with a little bit of luck could have easily been 19 and 2 I repeat 19 and 2 for Wilt's entire career in the playoff against any other team besides the Celtics.

[HoopsNY]

Also, Wilt got a hell of a lot closer to beating the stacked Celtics with their 8 to 10 hall of Famers every single year and hall of fame coach then Lebron ever did with the Durant Warriors.


Lebron got his ass kicked with three all-stars it's was not even close in 2017 and also had Durant deliver a dagger into his heart both years on his home court in the finals.




Compare to that with Wilt who was usually taking the Celtics to a tough 7 game series and barely losing by a point or two Wilt lost 4 combined game 7's to the Celtic's by only 9 points. Just think if 10 points goes another way then Wilt ends up with 6 rings for his career then 2.

Yea but he had guys like Arizin and Gola. Granted, the Celtics still had a deeper team, but if he's the GOAT, he should have pulled off more titles. He played alongside West, Goodrich, and Baylor and similar occurred. So is it all about the team or was something else taking away from team success?

I didn't see that era but I'm interested to learn more.

[coastalmarker99]

Yea but he had guys like Arizin and Gola. Granted, the Celtics still had a deeper team, but if he's the GOAT, he should have pulled off more titles. He played alongside West, Goodrich, and Baylor and similar occurred. So is it all about the team or was something else taking away from team success?

I didn't see that era but I'm interested to learn more.

I have watched a lot of footage from that era and Arizin was pretty much done in the 1962 playoffs and that's why I don't blame him for shooting 4 out of 22 from the floor in that 2 point game seven loss to the Celtics in the Ecf as he retired that same offseason anyway.



Baylor was washed up by the time Wilt was traded to La in the 1968 offseason due to the serious knee injury he suffered in 1965 and it's a credit to him as a person and player that he was still able to be effective for the next 3 seasons.








West was a monster offensively and was pretty much the Lakers only source of offence throughout the 1969 finals with his playmaking and incredible scoring also through Wilt could still score as he showed with 2 60 point games in the space of a week that season.



He and the coach Vbk hated each other so much that Vbk basically throughout that entire season benched him at some points and to be truthful basically froze him out of the Lakers offence that year in favour of the declining Baylor so that he could get his.





VBK had Wilt playing the high-post which Wilt disliked a lot as like Shaq he needed to be in the low post for his offensive game to be effective.

It got so bad that Wilt was averaging a career-low (at the time), 17 ppg at the midway point in the season. In fact, SI ran an article in which it claimed that Wilt could no longer score...which hit the news-stands on 1/27/69.


Wilt then caught wind of that article the night before it hit the news-stands before he then Chamberlain unleashed a 60 point game (mostly at Connie Dierking's expense.) A few days later Wilt exploded for 66 points (on a 60+ record shooting of 29-35 from the field), against mostly Jim Fox.

In a span of 17 games, Wilt averaged 31.1 ppg, which included a 35 point game against Russell...which was his highest-scoring game against Russell since his 46 point game in the EDF's series-clinching loss in '66.





Of course, VBK would have none of that in the post-season, and Wilt hardly saw the ball (while Baylor shot a putrid .38.5 in his post-season run.)

[coastalmarker99]

Yea but he had guys like Arizin and Gola. Granted, the Celtics still had a deeper team, but if he's the GOAT, he should have pulled off more titles. He played alongside West, Goodrich, and Baylor and similar occurred. So is it all about the team or was something else taking away from team success?

I didn't see that era but I'm interested to learn more.


First of all the reason why the 1969 Lakers failed to be the dominating super team everyone expected them to be and win the title that same year was Butch "the Butcher" Van Breda Kolff. Just so you know, he was vehemently against the trade that brought Chamberlain to the Lakers, to begin with.







From day one he hated Wilt.

Now, when a team brings in the GOAT low-post centrer of all-time you would want them to utilize him in that fashion, wouldn't you especially if they had won 3 straight MVPs and a title right before they came to your team?




Chamberlain quote about his coach that year in one of his books: "Butch wanted me to play the high post so Elgin could drive to the basket, but they got me for rebounding. Why pull a guy away from the basket when you want him to rebound?"




And here is one of my personal all-time favourites from the dumb ass that was Van Breda Kolff...

Butch Van Breda Kolff: "Not having enough basketballs wasn't the problem at all for us. The trade changed our chemistry. Elgin's favorite move was the drive from the left-wing and into the middle. Now, when he did that, he ran into Wilt, and Wilt's man. Wilt took that move away from Elgin. Imhoff loved to pick-and-roll with Elgin, but that wasn't something Wilt did very well. So we were able to throw the ball down low to Wilt and he'd score, but it was an awful offence to watch. When the ball stops moving, then guys don't rebound or play defence as well as they normally would."



So, VBK decided that instead of getting the ball down low and into Chamberlain, where he would SCORE, that he preferred Baylor to roam the baseline and get his offense. And, of course, Wilt complied. The result? Baylor had a good regular season, averaging 24.8 ppg (West was at 25.9 ppg, and Wilt at 20.5 ppg BTW), but he was completely exposed in the playoff as the shell that he was, and in fact, had the WORST FG% on the entire team in the post-season (.385.)


Now, let's get down to the Finals. Where a coach lost the series.

As you might not know this VBK had basically shackled Wilt's offensive game in that post-season. It was bad enough that during the regular season, Wilt had averaged a career-low 13.6 FGAs per game (Baylor was at 21.5 FGA per game, and West at 19.0 BTW), but then, in the post-season, Wilt hardly saw the ball at all.




His FGAs dropped down to 9.8 (West's went to 23.5 and Baylor 15.4.) And in the Finals... Wilt was at 8.3, Baylor at 17.3, and West at a staggering 28.0!

Obviously, VBK was rolling his dice with West and Baylor, and Wilt was an afterthought.






And that is why I do find it slightly unfair that Wilt gets blamed for that series loss as much as he does nowadays.



Obviously, Wilt does deserve some blame as his play offensively in game 4 of that series was horrible along with maybe game 6 of that series but his defence, rebounding and shot-blocking were great almost throughout the entire series and it is very hard to find a groove offensively when you are barely touching the ball and being used basically as a Dennis Rodman on offence.





And was that stunning game seven loss really Wilt's fault like so many people have said? I don't really think so.





In his 43 minutes, he scored 18 points, on 7-8 from the floor (and admittedly, 4-13 from the line), with 27 rebounds and 10 blocked shots meanwhile, his counter-part Russell scored six points, on 2-7 from the field, and 2-4 from the line, with 21 rebounds through he does deserve credit for starting the Celtics run in the third quarter which blew the game wide open for his team with his outlet passing and defence.

[Carbine]

I kind of laugh a little when I hear or see people suggest the Celtics were the mpst stacked team ever some even going as far as to say in all of sport history as this thread shows.

They were taken to game 7s a bunch in their run of titles and won those games by razor thin margins. Were talking 1,2,2,4,4 point spreads.

Going to overtimes.

The proof is in the results really. They weren't making a mockery of their competition, killing teams by 30 pts in game sevens because they decided to turn it on.

[Baller789]

How many championships did those stats translate too?

Manny98, I think your smart alek post backfired... By a lot.

[dankok8]

If I'm not mistaken that ridiculous Wilt statline was from the 67-68 season. I wish we had that game and many of his others on film.

[coastalmarker99]

Yea but he had guys like Arizin and Gola. Granted, the Celtics still had a deeper team, but if he's the GOAT, he should have pulled off more titles. He played alongside West, Goodrich, and Baylor and similar occurred. So is it all about the team or was something else taking away from team success?

I didn't see that era but I'm interested to learn more.

If you realise that Wilt played under 7 coaches in his 13-year career it starts to make sense why Wilt and his teams struggled to be successful and rake-off titles as the Celtics of that era did.




Neil Johnston was Wilt's first coach and was not a great coach in general as he only got the job due to his friendship with Warriors management and according to Wilt and he Neil didn't get along because Neil resented Wilt for putting him out of a job as a player and also embarrassing him as a young 16-year-old at one of Red's camps.

In retrospect, Gottlieb the Warriors owner at the time remarked: "My mistake was not getting a strong-handed coach. ... [Johnston] wasn't ready for the big-time as a coach



Frank McGuire was a coach that Wilt deeply respected as he treated him like a person and not as a basketball machine as so many of his other coaches did besides Sharman and Alex.


Now, much happier under the coaching of Frank Wilt in the 1961-1962 season would set numerous records that still stand to this day such his 50 point game average and the 100 points in a single game along with the 48.5 minutes he averaged a game throughout the entire season.

In the 1962 NBA Playoffs, the Warriors met the Boston Celtics again in the Eastern Division Finals, a team which Bob Cousy and Bill Russell called the greatest Celtics team of all time. Each team won their home games, so the series was split at three after six games. In a closely contested Game 7, Chamberlain had 15 blocks and 22 points plus tied the game at 107 with 16 seconds to go with 5 straight quick points but Celtics shooting guard Sam Jones hit a clutch shot with two seconds left to win the series for Boston.


In later years, Chamberlain was criticized for averaging 50 points, but not winning a title. In his defence, Warriors coach Frank McGuire said "Wilt has been simply super-human", and pointed out that the Warriors lacked a consistent second scorer, a playmaker, and a second big man to take the pressure off Chamberlain that year.





1962–63 NBA season
In the 1962–63 NBA season, Gottlieb sold the Warriors franchise for $850,000 (equal to about $7.18 million today to a group of businessmen led by Marty Simmons from San Francisco, and the team relocated to become the San Francisco Warriors under a new coach, Bob Feerick who was simply overwhelmed and struggled as a coach in the Nba lasting only one single season in the Nba for his coaching career as he coached the undermanned Warriors with both secondary scorers gone in Arizin and Gola to a losing season 31 wins and 49 losses as they missed the playoffs.

Wilt to his credit continued his array of statistical feats, averaging 44.8 points and 24.3 rebounds per game that year but once again it was another wasted season of a young Wilt's prime.









1963–64 NBA season
In the 1963–64 NBA season, Chamberlain got yet another new coach, Alex Hannum, and was joined by a promising rookie center, Nate Thurmond, who eventually entered the Hall of Fame. Ex-soldier Hannum, who later entered the Basketball Hall of Fame as a coach, was a crafty psychologist who emphasized defence and passing. Most importantly, he was not afraid to stand up to the dominant Chamberlain which earned him Wilt's respect.



Now backed up by valuable rookie Thurmond who would soon become a monster defender during that era and into the early 1970's Chamberlain had another good season with 36.9 ppg and 22.3 RPG and 9.2 blocks a game and the Warriors went all the way to the NBA Finals.

With Wilt playing out of his mind against the Hawks in a very tough 7 game series it should be noted that in that Game 7 against the Hawks Wilt posted a monster stat line of 39 points,30 rebounds,6 assists and 13 blocked shots as the Warriors won the game 105 to 95 and moved onto to face the Celtics in the finals.








In that final series, they soon succumbed to Russell's Boston Celtics yet again, this time losing 4–1 with Wilt averaging over the course of the series 29.2 points on 51 percent shooting 27.6 rebounds a game plus 2.4 assists a game and 6.8 blocks a game.



but it should be noted that not only Chamberlain but in particular Hannum deserved much credit because they had together had basically had taken the bad 31–49 squad of last year plus Thurmond and made it into an NBA Finalist team.

1964–65 NBA season with the Warriors


In the summer of 1964, Chamberlain would suffer a heart attack which meant that with him now out as a result of dealing with his heart problems which would eventually kill him 35 years later in 1999.


The Warriors got off to a terrible start and ran into financial trouble forcing them to trade Wilt At the 1965 All-Star break Chamberlain was traded to the Philadelphia 76ers, the new name of the relocated Syracuse Nationals.



In return, the Warriors received Paul Neumann, Connie Dierking, Lee Shaffer (who opted to retire rather than report to the Warriors), and $150,000 )equal to about $1.22 million today.



After the trade Chamberlain found himself on a promising Sixers team that included guards Hal Greer, a future Hall-of-Famer, and talented role players Larry Costello, Chet Walker and Lucious Jackson. However there was an incredible tension within the 76ers team as a result of the trade that landed Wilt.



As Greer was the formerly undisputed leader of the team and was not willing to give up his authority to Wilt and Jackson, a talented center, was now forced to play power forward because Chamberlain blocked the center spot; however, as the season progressed, the three began to mesh better as a team



He Wilt did not care for his new coach in Dolph Schayes, because Schayes, according to him, had made several disrespectful remarks when they were rival players in the NBA so from day one the relationship between the star player and coach was already going to be a tough one on both sides.



Remarkably despite all of the inner team fighting that the 1965 76ers had they would defeat the Cincinnati Royals led by Oscar Robertson in the 1965 NBA Playoffs in a tough 5 game series with Wilt once again posting another monster stat line in a winner take all game with 38 points,26 rebounds and 10 blocked shots the 76ers were able to win the series and move on to face Chamberlain's familiar rival, the Boston Celtics where they would lose in a very tough 7 game series.




Despite that Wilt would average over the course of the 7 game series 30.1 points on 55 percent shooting 31.4 rebounds and 3.3 assists plus 7.5 blocked shots a game as he once again would lose to the Celtics in the playoffs for the fourth time for his career.

[jlip]

If I'm not mistaken that ridiculous Wilt statline was from the 67-68 season. I wish we had that game and many of his others on film.

Do you know what specific game it was from?

[coastalmarker99]

If I'm not mistaken that ridiculous Wilt statline was from the 67-68 season. I wish we had that game and many of his others on film.

There is many of Wilt's 76ers games on film in the Nba archive's most people don't know that almost every single game between the Celtics and 76ers were on national television from 1965 to 1968 both during the regular season and playoffs


And to add to it Wilt's games against the Royals in the 1965 playoffs were also on national television it's why I know Wilt's complete stat line from game 5 of that first-round series.


Wilt had 38 points,26 rebounds and 10 blocked shots in that game 5 as the result the 76ers were able to win the series and move on to face Chamberlain's familiar rival, the Boston Celtics where they would lose in a very tough 7 game series.

[coastalmarker99]

Do you know what specific game it was from?

It was vs the Lakers on March 18, 1968, the final score was 158 to 128 as the 76ers blew out the Lakers that night it should be noted that through that both Baylor and West were not playing that game when he posted the greatest unofficial stat line that you see in that picture.



I also know how many blocks Wilt averaged both over the course of the 1967 season and the 1968 season and I will post my findings here if anyone is interested in it.

[coastalmarker99]

Yea but he had guys like Arizin and Gola. Granted, the Celtics still had a deeper team, but if he's the GOAT, he should have pulled off more titles. He played alongside West, Goodrich, and Baylor and similar occurred. So is it all about the team or was something else taking away from team success?

I didn't see that era but I'm interested to learn more.

Wilt's relationship with his coaches



There are still a few coaches around who act like dictators, but pro basketball today is often something of a collaborative environment where some players provide input and make suggestions. Back in the 1950's and 60's, however, the typical coach ran his team with an iron hand, and players did as they were told or found themselves on the bench or off the team.

Wilt arrived in the NBA during a time of change. Attitudes were changing about almost every aspect of society, including race, the role of young people, and the media, to name a few. Into this environment came Wilt, and no one had seen the likes of him before, as a player or as a personality. We now accept the notion of the superstar athlete as a media figure and as someone who commands respect from coaches, but Wilt was one of the first, and the idea that an athlete would view himself that way, especially a black athlete, was grating to many people, including some in the coaching ranks.

Wilt's coach the first two years with the Philadelphia Warriors was Neil Johnston. Johnston was the Warriors' center before Wilt, a fine scorer and rebounder who was part of the Warriors' championship team in 1956 and is in the Hall of Fame. Although the Warriors had won the title four years before, they were a team in decline and were 32-40 in 1958-59. When Wilt arrived in 1959-60, they improved to 49-26, and they took the champion Celtics to six games in the Eastern finals. But there was tension between Johnston and Wilt, and the team took a step back, going 46-33 in the regular season and getting swept by Syracuse in the first round of the playoffs. That was the end of Johnston's coaching tenure with the Warriors.

In his third season, Wilt was coached by Frank McGuire, the North Carolina coach whose team beat Chamberlain and Kansas in the 1957 NCAA championship, and that was one of the best relationships that Wilt had with a coach. Philadelphia was 49-31 in the regular season and lost to the Celtics in the Eastern finals, including a heartbreaking 109-107 loss in game 7. McGuire wanted to stay on, but the Warriors moved to San Francisco after that season, and he left the team because moving to the West Coast would take him away from his son, Frank Jr., who had cerebral palsy. (McGuire became the head coach at South Carolina, where he is the winningest basketball coach. He is also the third-winningest at North Carolina.)

Wilt: In my first two years, I was coached by Neil Johnston, who had been the Warriors center before me.... He had no sympathy for me because I used to kick his butt on the playgrounds in Philly and because I now was playing his old position....

That changed in my third year when Frank McGuire came in. He was a unique man, not just because he allowed me to score 50 points a game. Rather, he was very sensitive to this young black man and all things that surrounded me. He never told me to score points, he let it happen in the natural flow of the game. He did tell the team, "Gentlemen, if Wilt has to score 50 a game for us to win and if he can do it, then gentlemen, that is how it will be."

"[McGuire] and Wilt really hit it off," said Harvey Pollack, then public relations director for the Warriors. "Wilt was never too happy with Neil. But Frank knew what to say to Wilt, how to handle him. I don't think Wilt had that kind of camaraderie with any other coach."

In a 1987 interview with the New York Times, McGuire said Chamberlain was "the best problem I ever had."

Frank McGuire: I first coached against Wilt in the 1957 NCAA championship game when my North Carolina team beat Kansas. During my pregame talk, I never even mentioned the Kansas team, I just talked about how we'd defense Wilt.... We put five guys on him and he still scored 26 points, but we won. But that wasn't Wilt's fault.

From that day, I had been intrigued with Chamberlain. I had read that he was uncoachable and a bad guy, but I refused to believe that. He didn't strike me that way. I was at North Carolina for 10 years when Eddie Gottlieb talked to me about the Warriors job. I looked at film of Wilt, and the more I saw, the more I wanted to coach him. Even though I had been very comfortable at North Carolina, I couldn't resist the temptation of working with Wilt.

Wilt: The first thing Frank did after he got the job was sit down and talk to me, man-to-man. No coach had ever treated me that way before.

Tom Gola: Frank didn't try to control Wilt. Some of Wilt's early coaches, they kept telling him what to do. But Wilt thought he knew more about basketball than they did. By not telling Wilt things all the time, when Frank did talk to Wilt, Wilt listened.

McGuire: I had meetings with each of the players... I said that Wilt was the most dominant force in basketball history and I wanted him to get the ball two-thirds of the time. Guy Rodgers said to me, "Coach, whatever you say is fine, but will you sit in with us when we go to talk contract with Eddie Gottlieb?" One of the problems back then was that guys were paid according to their scoring averages. But that also is why I respected the players -- they ran the offense I wanted.

McGuire: In the playoffs, we took Boston to seven games and lost when Mendy Rudolph called a very questionable goaltending on Wilt. We got beat 109-107 and had a chance to win because we caught Boston on a bad day.

Wilt was so great. He shook my hand after that game and told me how much he appreciated my coaching.

I would have come back for a second season, but Eddie Gottlieb sold the Warriors to San Francisco and I was not about to move to the West Coast and be that far away from Frank Jr., so I quit and went back to coaching in college. But in that one year, I'm very proud to have been the coach when Wilt averaged 50 and scored 100 in a game. I wish I could have coached him for his whole career.

Wilt: I just wish that I could have played for more than one year for Frank McGuire. He and Alex Hannum were my favourite coaches.

[coastalmarker99]

Yea but he had guys like Arizin and Gola. Granted, the Celtics still had a deeper team, but if he's the GOAT, he should have pulled off more titles. He played alongside West, Goodrich, and Baylor and similar occurred. So is it all about the team or was something else taking away from team success?

I didn't see that era but I'm interested to learn more.

After McGuire came the underwhelming Bob Feerick (31-49), but the Warriors then hired Alex Hannum and immediately improved to 48-32. Now in the Western division, the Warriors made it to the finals but lost again to the Celtics. During their time together in San Francisco, Chamberlain and Hannum developed a bond that would serve them well later.

In the middle of the next season, Wilt was traded from the Warriors back to Philadelphia to the 76ers, who were the relocated Syracuse Nationals. Wilt was traded for financial reasons; although the Warriors had a good team, attendance was poor in San Francisco, and the ownership felt they couldn't afford to carry Wilt's huge salary, so they traded him for three players (one of whom never played a game for the Warriors) and $150,000 (which was a lot of money in those days).

For one and half seasons, Dolph Schayes was Wilt's coach with the 76ers. Schayes was a Hall-of-Fame player who believed in a motion offense that had served him well in his playing days. Although Wilt was a different kind of player, Schayes stayed with his offense, which made Wilt something of a square peg in a round hole. They were successful during the regular season, improving from 34-46 the year before Chamberlain's arrival to 55-25 in Wilt's first full season, the best record in the league. In the playoffs, however, they lost 4-1 to the Celtics in the Eastern finals, which led to Schayes' dismissal.

Re-enter Alex Hannum, recently departed from San Francisco. The 76ers had a roster with a mix of emerging young talent and veteran leadership, including Hal Greer, Chet Walker, Billy Cunningham, Wali Jones, Luke Jackson, and Larry Costello. Now that Chamberlain was finally surrounded with scorers, Hannum told Wilt to concentrate on defense and rebounding.

Hannum and Chamberlain had a couple of long talks before the season. They both were big men, men of ego, yet men who lusted after the same thing -- beating Boston.

"I told Wilt that things had changed for him," said Hannum. "He had a great team around him. It was not necessary for him to lead the league -- or even his team -- in scoring for us to win."

Chamberlain was a bit leery. He was the greatest scorer in history. While he wouldn't admit it, much of his identity was tied up in the fact that he was unstoppable, unguardable, unlike any player the NBA had ever seen. Hannum was asking him to give up a lot. Chamberlain considered that, but he also told Hannum, "I want to win. I'll give it a try."

For the next two seasons, the 76ers had six players score in double figures, and although Wilt was the high scorer, it wasn't by much (two points one season, 0.2 points the other), and other players had more field goal attempts. In 1966-67, Philadelphia was a then-record 68-13, beat Boston 4-1 in the Eastern finals, and won the NBA championship. In 1967-68, they had the league's best record again at 62-20 but lost to Boston in seven games in the Eastern finals.

Wilt: Why did we finally beat Boston? Because we had Alex Hannum as our coach.

Billy Cunningham: Alex Hannum demanded and received immediate respect. He had coached St Louis to a title [in 1958] and had coached Syracuse and Golden State. He had coached Wilt with the Warriors and word was that Alex had challenged Wilt in the Warriors' dressing room.

Alex Hannum: I'll just say that Wilt and I always had an understanding and mutual respect. When I got the Sixers job, we had lost Guy Rodgers in the expansion draft to Chicago. Guy was Wilt's favorite point guard and he made getting the ball to Wilt an art form. Costello was not the fancy ballhandler and passer that Guy was, but I knew that Costello and Hal Greer could be one of the best backcourt combinations that ever lived. My idea was to talk Larry Costello out of retirement, but before I did that, I called Wilt. I could tell that Wilt wasn't that fired up about it, but he said, "Coach, if you think Costello will help us win, then it's your decision."

I talked to Wilt about everything, not just Costello. One of the big things was that Wilt wanted to play all 48 minutes. Yes, he could play every minute, but to do that he had to pace himself. I said, "This is a different team from the ones earlier in your career. We have more talent and I need to play more guys. I don't give a damn who you are, you can't go at full speed for 48 minutes. I also don't think it's a bad idea to rest you for a few minutes, put someone else in there and give our team a different look." As was the case with Costello, he didn't necessarily agree with me, but he went along with the idea.

Larry Costello: Many people didn't understand Wilt, but Alex Hannum knew that you didn't sweat the small stuff with Wilt, who was a man of great pride and intelligence.

[coastalmarker99]

Yea but he had guys like Arizin and Gola. Granted, the Celtics still had a deeper team, but if he's the GOAT, he should have pulled off more titles. He played alongside West, Goodrich, and Baylor and similar occurred. So is it all about the team or was something else taking away from team success?

I didn't see that era but I'm interested to learn more.

Jack Ramsay was hired to replace Hannum as general manager after the 1967-68 season, and Hannum left for the new ABA because he wanted total control as both coach and GM. Chamberlain suggested that the 76ers hire Frank McGuire or Bill Sharman to coach, but they went with Ramsay instead. Ramsay, like Dolph Schayes, was an advocate of a motion offense, and rather than repeat that experience with Wilt, Philly traded him (and his expensive contract) to the Lakers. LA was of course a perennial power in the West but couldn't get past Boston in the finals. With Wilt joining Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, they seemed like a lock to take the next step. However, that didn't take into account what would be one of the most unsatisfying experiences of Wilt's career -- being coached by Butch Van Breda Kolff.




Fred Schaus: I'd always been a big Wilt fan and felt he had gotten a bad rap over the years. I wish I could have coached him.

Butch Van Breda Kolff: I was excited when Fred Schaus told me that we had a chance to get Wilt.... Then I met Wilt during the summer at Kutsher's Country Club for the Maurice Stokes Game. I asked him to put on the Lakers T-shirt I had for him so we could take a picture, but he didn't want to do it. We went around and around for a minute, and Wilt was just being contrary. He just wanted to see how far he could push me. It just pissed me off, but I let it go.

Wilt: After the trade, Butch was quoted as saying he "could handle Wilt." Well, you handle horses, not people. Then there was all this talk about there not being enough basketballs for West, Baylor and myself. That didn't bother me. I was willing to sacrifice my offense and to concentrate on defense and rebounding so West and Baylor could score and we could make a run for the title. But with Butch, he always wanted me to know he was the boss.

Van Breda Kolff: I tried to talk to Wilt, I really did. Once, I said that we'd be better if he didn't spike the ball out-of-bounds after he blocked a shot. Then I made the mistake of mentioning Russell's name, and how the Celtics would fast break off his blocked shots.

Wilt said, "Boston is coached to come up with Russell's blocks."

I said, "What do you want me to do, put guys halfway up the stands? Are the ushers supposed to get your blocks?

Earl Strom: During games, you'd see Butch yell at Wilt and then Wilt would yell right back at him. Or else they would get into it when Butch took Wilt out of the game. Wilt said that he got along with most of his coaches, which was true. But once I heard him say, "Yeah, I liked all my coaches but Jackass."

I thought, "Who's Jackass?"

Then Wilt said, "Good old Jackass Van Breda Kolff."

Fred Schaus: I had a couple of meetings with Butch and Wilt, just the three of us. Both guys wanted to win and I think they wanted to smooth things out, but they were such strong-willed people... one of them would say something, and they'd start to argue. They would get stuck on little things. They just were two people who could look at each other and that was enough to aggravate the hell out of both of them.

Despite it all, they finished first in the West and met the aging Celtics in the finals. It was an epic series that has a special place in Celtic lore, especially game 7 (the balloon game), which included one last monumental run-in between Chamberlain and Van Breda Kolff.

Wilt: We were down by 9 points [with five minutes left] when I came down with a rebound and banged my knee. It was really painful. They helped me off the court, and I just needed a breather for a second. Butch put Mel Counts in for me, but after a minute I said I was ready to come back in. Butch ignored me.

John Havlicek: We were aware that Wilt went out, but we didn't know what the story was until later. We all figured he'd come back into the game and we were surprised when he didn't.

Fred Schaus: [S]itting in the stands, we all were dying because Wilt was not on the floor. Of course you want the big guy in at the end of a game like that, but it was Butch's decision.

Van Breda Kolff: I put in Counts, he hit a couple of shots and we made a comeback, as we often did when Counts played for Wilt during the regular season. Wilt told me he was okay, but I said we'd keep things as they were. He told me a second time he wanted to go back in, but I told Wilt the truth. I said, "We're playing better without you." It was nothing personal against Wilt. I simply decided to go with the guys who got us back into the game, and if Nelson hadn't made that shot, who knows what would have happened?

Wilt: He was just trying to show he was the boss and that he could win a title without Wilt Chamberlain.

Earl Strom: In a sense, I respect Butch for making one of the dumbest moves any coach has ever made. You just don't try to win a title with Mel Counts when you have Wilt Chamberlain, but they hated each other so much. Butch was never one to compromise. He always was his own man and he would coach his own way.

Van Breda Kolff quit after that. The petty, personal feud between the two men may very well have kept them from winning the title, but it's now a footnote to one of the most memorable wins in Celtic history.

Joe Mullaney took over as Lakers coach the next two seasons. The 1969-70 season is remembered for LA losing to the Knicks in the finals with Willis Reed limping out to play in game 7, but the Lakers were not the powerhouse they appeared to be. Wilt injured his knee early in the season and didn't return until the playoffs, Elgin Baylor was near the end of his career and only played in 54 games, and neither was at full strength in the playoffs. In 1970-71, Wilt didn't miss a game, but Baylor hurt his knee again and only played two games, and West also hurt his knee late in the season. The Lakers lost in the West finals to the Milwaukee team with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Oscar Robertson. I couldn't find any information to indicate whether Wilt had a good or bad relationship with Mullaney, and his tenure is mostly described as unlucky due to all the injuries to his stars. In any event, it was nothing like the animosity that characterized Wilt and Van Breda Kolff.

Wilt's last two seasons were with Bill Sharman. The Lakers had a great 1971-72 season, going 69-13, winning 33 in a row (still a major pro sports record), and beating the Bulls, Bucks, and Knicks on their way to the title. The 1972-73 team was 60-22 in the regular season, but with Baylor gone, Wilt in his last season, and West in his next-to-last season, LA lost to the Knicks in the finals.

Sharman was a stickler for detail and like to do thing his way, and that could've been a recipe for disaster with Chamberlain, but the two got along well. A story that was often told was that when Sharman instituted mandatory morning shootarounds, Wilt told Sharman that he would come to the arena once a day and that Sharman could decide whether it would be for the shootaround or the game. Another tale regarding Wilt and shootarounds is that Sharman used them specifically to curb Wilt's nightlife. Great stories, but according to Sharman, not true. "It never happened. I talked to Wilt right before camp, and he said, ‘You know, Bill, I usually don’t get out of bed until noon. But if you think it will help, I’ll go along if we win.’” Sharman has also said he was impressed by how much Chamberlain was willing to work with him. So I'd say that ends Wilt's experience with coaches on a positive note.

[Baller789]

Wilt is a once in a lifetime physical specimen.
If he was born in the 90's, the game right now would be vastly different.

[Horatio33]

Lazerus with the Wilt Chamberlain excuses essays.

[SouBeachTalents]

He'll put up a stat line like that then score 14 points in Game 7 while not attempting a single shot in the 2nd half

[Manny98]

How many championships did Lebron second Cavs run result in one I repeat one and it could be called a complete fluke with green's suspension and Bogut's injury.






You have to remember that Wilt like Lebron was facing the most stacked team in Nba history and maybe sports history the Celtics of that time from the late '50s to 1969 were virtually unbeatable besides one year in 1967 where Wilt had the greatest single-season ever by a player.
LeBron literally has twice the championships as Wilt
And when Lebron lost it wasn't his fault, he put up amazing stats

Wilt on the other hand blew a 3-1 lead whilst having some of the worst finals chokejobs in league history :oldlol:

lol @ you writing an entire essay to defend Wilts choking antics

[Manny98]

He'll put up a stat line like that then score 14 points in Game 7 while not attempting a single shot in the 2nd half
That's where he gets the nickname "Chokerlain"

Puts up big stats in the regular season but drops off when it really matters hence 2/6 in the finals and he wasn't even the 1st option of his team for those championships

[coastalmarker99]

That's where he gets the nickname "Chokerlain"

Puts up big stats in the regular season but drops off when it really matters hence 2/6 in the finals and he wasn't even the 1st option of his team for those championships

That's the biggest bs as he was the finals MVP for both of his titles along with being their most valuable player and the regular season Mvp voting of both his title-winning years shows that.



Wilt dominated throughout the 1967 playoffs all the way to his first title and finals MVP


In the first round against the Royals

Wilt averaged 28.0 points on 61 percent shooting and 26.5 rebounds plus 11.0 assists along with his 9.2 blocks per game average that series:bowdown:



In the Ecf Wilt averaged 21.6 points per game on 55 percent shooting plus 32.0 rebounds and 10.0 assists and 8.8 blocks a game as well against Russell as the 76ers beat the 8 in a row championship Celtics in 5 games.


And lastly, in the finals, Wilt averaged 17.7 points on 56 percent shooting and 28.5 rebounds plus 6.8 assists and 9 blocks a game including a 15 block game in game 1 of that final series.


So, therefore, there is no serious argument that you can make that Wilt was not the 1st option for the 1967 sixer's who steamrolled everyone that year on there way to the title as for one he lead the team in ppg in the regular season along with rebounds and assists plus blocks and field goal efficiency.



Also, Wilt won the regular season Mvp that season along with the finals Mvp and for the record, he also would have won the Dpoy if it was around at the time.



Wilt's 1967 season is the goat peak by any player in Nba history as not even Lebron in 2013 or Kareem in 1977 along with Shaq in 2000 come close to the overall dominance that Wilt displayed that season on every single level of the game.

[Hakkim90cc]

Thats like a fullblown 99 overall playing against a bunch of 60 overalls in the rec /2k comment

[Psileas]

Τhat's my pick for GOAT statline as well, Marker, but what's your take about those references on Wilt's most ridiculous shot blocking games (of 30+)? What are the highest estimations you consider somewhat credible?