PDA

View Full Version : How the Showtime Lakers dynasty was born out of other teams incompetence.



coastalmarker99
12-16-2020, 09:23 PM
Curious on how a playoff team with Kareem could pick Magic #1 overall in 1979, and then pick Worthy #1 overall in 1982 coming off a championship? Well, due to the insane free agency rules at the time, the New Orleans Jazz had to compensate the Lakers when Gail Goodrich signed with them in 1976. Goodrich was a 5-time All-Star who'd been on the 1972 Lakers title team with Wilt and Jerry West (the team that won 33 straight games).



The compensation was decided to be the Jazz's 1977, 1978, and 1979 first-round picks, plus their 1980 second-round pick, in exchange for the Lakers' 1978 first-rounder and 1977 second-rounder, plus Goodrich. Goodrich would only play three seasons with the Jazz. His last season there was in 78-79, when the team went 26-56 and ended up with the 1979 #1 overall pick. None of the other picks became anyone significant.



Hilariously, Elgin Baylor was the Head Coach of those Jazz, meaning two of the key figures of the Lakers' previous title runs were responsible through their ineptitude for the Lakers having the Showtime dynasty fall into their lap.



Well, actually there was still a coin flip to decide who got the #1 pick and who got the #2 pick, even though the Jazz had the outright worst record (dumb old rule). The Jazz/Lakers won the toss, and the Chicago Bulls lost. Theoretically, if they'd won that toss, the Bulls could have later paired Magic with Jordan, though getting Magic probably would've meant they wouldn't've been in position to pick Jordan 5 years later.



So if the coin flips the other way--or if the Jazz had realized how stupid it was to trade a bunch of first rounders for an aging All-Star--the Lakers never get Magic, Showtime happens somewhere else, and Kareem likely wins between zero and two more titles rather than five. His career stats might've taken a big hit too--Magic was the GOAT point god and his passing def helped Kareem as he aged, and Kareem might've retired earlier if he wasn't sticking around to ring-chase.





SUMMARY: The Lakers lucked into Magic because the Jazz made an idiotic trade, and then they won a coin toss with the Bulls to get the #1 overall pick. If either thing doesn't happen, Kareem a top 3 player of all time doesn't get any Showtime rings and likely finishes with just one or two rings for his career.

Which as a result would drastically change the views that people have of Kareem's legacy.







What about Worthy, you say? That's less important, but in the 79-80 season, the Lakers traded Don Ford plus their 1980 first rounder to the Cleveland Cavs for Butch Lee and their 1982 first rounder. Both guys were single digit scorers, with Ford slapping up a mighty 3-2-0.5 in 52 games for the Lakers during the season they traded him. He played 106 games for the Cavs before they released him. Lee did even less for the Lakers.



The pick the Lakers traded was #22 in 1980, which the Cavs used to select His Highness Chad Kinch (don't sweat it Cavs fans, you're champs now, unlike those poor, poor Jazz). The Cavs had the worst record in 81-82, and the Lakers won the coin toss over the San Diego Clippers for the first pick.



The Lakers took Worthy #1 overall, the Clippers took two-time All-Star Terry Cummings at #2, and the now-Utah Jazz took Dominique Wilkins at #3... .... ... and promptly traded him to the Atlanta Hawks for Tweedledee, Tweedledum, and $1 million in cash.



The Jazz were having cash flow problems in Utah, and Wilkins was reluctant to play there. I can only speculate that maybe if they'd held on to the Magic pick, the Jazz might have had more financial success and improved their cash flow. And knowing their luck, the reason for the move in 1979 was because of a lack of fan support, which excitement over Magic might have mitigated.



Basically, I'm postulating that the Jazz probably could have had Magic and Nique, and their own version of Showtime. They also won 0 titles with Adrian Dantley, Darrell Griffith, Jeff Hornacek, Mark Eaton, John Stockton, and Karl Malone throughout the 80s and 90s.





SUMMARY: The Lakers also lucked into Big Game James, this time via the Cavs. The Jazz got ****ed again, and would get ****ed more in the coming decades. The Clippers also got kinda ****ed, and then kinda ****ed up themselves, but not all that badly. Worthy was important to Showtime, but not nearly as important as Magic.



One last Fun Fact: Hakeem claims in his autobiography that the Rockets were offered a trade of Clyde "The Glide" Drexler and Michael Jordan for Ralph Sampson. Drexler was Hakeem's college teammate from Phi Slama Jama, and topped out at a LeBron-esque 27-8-6 on 50% shooting with 2.5 steals in his best season. Sampson was a 7'4 college phenom who got injured and ultimately disappointed in the NBA.



SUMMARY: Jordan could've potentially ended up playing with either Magic on the Bulls, or Hakeem and Drexler on the Rockets. Instead, Kareem lucked into two #1 overall picks that turned into Magic and Worthy. Magic is nice for not minding Kareem usurping his spot in the GOAT conversation.

coastalmarker99
12-16-2020, 10:16 PM
It was funny to think with a single flip of a coin that Bird might end up as the goat instead of Jordan


No Showtime being around to face in the finals means Bird has a four-peat from 1984 to 1987 how would Bird be ranked nowadays with 5 rings and 4 final MVPs along with three straight regular-season MVPs would he be still the goat single forward over even Lebron nowadays it would make for a very interesting debate.



Also with Magic on the Bulls they are not bad enough to draft Jordan in the 1984 draft so where does Jordan end up if he is not on the Bulls in this timeline also what about Pippen where he does get drafted to if the Bulls are not bad enough to draft him.




As for Kareem without Showtime and winning those 5 rings along with another finals Mvp in 1985 does he get booted out of the top 5 all-time if he only has one ring and finals Mvp for his career plus two final's appearances.

Stephonit
12-17-2020, 12:38 AM
Where would Magic have ended up in this alternate universe? Somewhere he wouldn't have won a ring or maybe with Jordan where he is the new Pippen. Magic should thank his lucky stars he wound up with Kareem. Between the two it is Magic who has the shakier résumé.

Kiddlovesnets
12-17-2020, 12:58 AM
There wouldn’t be a chance that Bird became GOAT due to his short career/prime, he might be considered one in the early 1990s but as long as MJ still won 6 titles and 2 3-peats, he’s easily the GOAT.

guy
12-17-2020, 10:35 AM
The 80s Celtics were also formed through dumb luck. Red Auerbach was the only GM with the foresight to draft Larry Bird a year early so they got him at #6, while the Blazer, Kings, Pacers, Knicks and Warriors passed on him. Then the Warriors traded Robert Parish and the 3rd pick for the 1st and 13th picks. That 3rd pick ended up being Kevin McHale, who the Warriors could've still drafted with the 1st pick even after the trade but ended up with Joe Barry Carroll. And the Celtics would've never had the 1st pick to trade if they didn't have the foresight to realize Bob McAdoo was washed up and trade him to Detroit for their pick.

Its funny to me how much people talk about how "expansion" had such an impact on the talent level of the league in the 90s and always refer to the 80s Lakers and Celtics as an example without actually looking into how those teams were formed. The 80s Lakers and Celtics had the best front offices but also as you can see, just fell into some incredibly lucky circumstances.

guy
12-17-2020, 10:53 AM
Where would Magic have ended up in this alternate universe? Somewhere he wouldn't have won a ring or maybe with Jordan where he is the new Pippen. Magic should thank his lucky stars he wound up with Kareem. Between the two it is Magic who has the shakier résumé.

Let’s see. I’m pretty sure Magic said he wouldn’t have entered the draft in 79 if the Lakers didn’t have the 1st pick. Magic didn’t even want to go to Chicago so if the Jazz never made that trade and ended up with the 1st pick there’s no way he’d be okay playing in Utah. So let’s say he enters the 80 draft. He’s considered one of the greatest college players ever and he would’ve been clearly considered the consensus #1 pick. So with that said, Red would’ve clearly wanted him and knew that making that trade with the Warriors would’ve killed that possibility. So they wouldn’t make the trade, and the Celtics would’ve drafted Magic at #1 and paired him up with Bird for the entire 80s :wtf: (no Parish and McHale though but I’m sure they would’ve figured it out)

rawimpact
12-17-2020, 11:10 AM
Good read, I don't really know much about NBA history past the late 80s.

You really should consider a blog because your posts are really wasting away here.

JBSptfn
12-17-2020, 12:06 PM
A note about Kareem: He wanted to go to the Knicks in 1975 (via trade), but New York didn't take the trade (or the Bucks) seriously enough:

ttps://tsa.substack.com/p/when-kareem-wanted-out-a42

A couple of more notes:

1. According to this article, the Lakers wanted to send Goodrich there, but Bucks GM Wayne Embry wasn't interested. What if he was? Milwaukee may have ended up with Utah's pick instead.

2. In 1982, Brent Musberger mentioned on TV that there was a rumored trade involving Jabbar. The Lakers wanted Ralph Sampson to leave school early so they could take him, and they were going to be a part of a three-way trade involving the Knicks and Jazz. Kareem was going to go to the Knicks, with Bill Cartwright going to Utah.

guy
12-17-2020, 12:43 PM
Knicks also had an opportunity to get Dr. J when the Nets offered him to the Knicks in return to waiving a $5M fee for invading their territory. So on different occasions, the Knicks have had opportunities that they screwed up to get Dr. J, Kareem, or Larry Bird. :oldlol:

Xiao Yao You
12-17-2020, 12:44 PM
The Lakers took Worthy #1 overall, the Clippers took two-time All-Star Terry Cummings at #2, and the now-Utah Jazz took Dominique Wilkins at #3... .... ... and promptly traded him to the Atlanta Hawks for Tweedledee, Tweedledum, and $1 million in cash.



The Jazz were having cash flow problems in Utah, and Wilkins was reluctant to play there. I can only speculate that maybe if they'd held on to the Magic pick, the Jazz might have had more financial success and improved their cash flow. And knowing their luck, the reason for the move in 1979 was because of a lack of fan support, which excitement over Magic might have mitigated.



Basically, I'm postulating that the Jazz probably could have had Magic and Nique, and their own version of Showtime. They also won 0 titles with Adrian Dantley, Darrell Griffith, Jeff Hornacek, Mark Eaton, John Stockton, and Karl Malone throughout the 80s and 90s.


John Drew was hardly Tweedledee. Too bad he had a coke problem. I believe Freeman Williams was the other one and he gave us woman's great Natalie Williams. They didn't need Wilkens. Dantley was better. Not that they would have been drafting as high if they had Magic. They also took Griffith over McHale. Eaton sucked!

JBSptfn
12-17-2020, 03:28 PM
Knicks also had an opportunity to get Dr. J when the Nets offered him to the Knicks in return to waiving a $5M fee for invading their territory. So on different occasions, the Knicks have had opportunities that they screwed up to get Dr. J, Kareem, or Larry Bird. :oldlol:

This is going to sound scary, but the Lakers were also making a run at Dr. J. I heard that they were getting ready to put in a counter-offer to the Nets when he was sold to the Sixers.

HBK_Kliq_2
12-17-2020, 05:23 PM
Jazz were idiots. That's like giving away a chance to get Luke Doncic and Klay Thompson, all because you wanted Goran Dragić? Am I reading this shit right? wow

StrongLurk
12-17-2020, 05:48 PM
Almost all dynasties in the NBA form through a ton of luck.

Xiao Yao You
12-17-2020, 07:03 PM
Jazz were idiots. That's like giving away a chance to get Luke Doncic and Klay Thompson, all because you wanted Goran Dragić? Am I reading this shit right? wow

They set the franchise back almost a decade to acquire Pistol Pete

HoopsNY
12-17-2020, 09:11 PM
This is a GOAT post. Thank you for sharing.

1987_Lakers
12-17-2020, 10:05 PM
Mychal Thompson is an underrated trade for them in '87, during the year, the Lakers were in badly need for a back up big. No more Kupchak, McAdoo was gone, & Maurice Lucas was only one and done in '86. Thompson was the perfect pick up because he provided great post up defense. McHale said that Mychal was one of the players that defended him the best, that sky hook by Magic to win the game in game 4 of the '87 Finals was set up by Mychal fighting for a rebound with McHale off a FT miss by Kareem, the ball goes out of bounds with McHale touching it last, ball goes to the Lakers and Magic proceeds to hit the game winning shot to take a 3-1 lead in the series.