How Do LeStans Explain This...

[dankok8]

MJ led his teams to four top 20 ORtg of all time.

5. 1991-1992 Chicago Bulls -- 115.5
9. 1995-1996 Chicago Bulls -- 115.2
16. 1990-1991 Chicago Bulls - 114.6
20. 1996-1997 Chicago Bulls - 114.4

See Full List: https://stathead.com/sharing/pqaEz

And he did this with no other great offensive players.

Could any modern player anchor such historic offenses with Paul George and Serge Ibaka as his 2nd and 3rd options? Those two guys are approximately on the level of Pippen and Grant offensively.

It's also worth noting that the list is significantly skewed towards the last five seasons which has eight teams in the top 20 and comprises the most offensive era in league history. And yet still the highest ORtg for a Lebron team is the 2016-2017 Cavs at #37.

[Ben Simmons]

Nobody cares about the regular season. Especially not Lecoast

[highwhey]

luka has lead the greatest offensive rating of all time...so he's better than Jordan? at only 20 years of age? :lebronamazed:

[dankok8]

luka has lead the greatest offensive rating of all time...so he's better than Jordan? at only 20 years of age? :lebronamazed:

The last five seasons from 15-16 to 19-20 are incredibly offensively inflated though. Eight teams in the top 20 are from those years.

If we look at the NBA before the offensive explosion in 2015, Jordan's Bulls teams have the 2nd, 5th, 9th and 12th highest ORtg of all time! :bowdown: Leading Scottie and Grant to offenses comparable to Showtime Lakers with Magic/Kareem/Worthy etc. is freaking insane. This doesn't get talked about enough.

[light]

MJ led his teams to four top 20 ORtg of all time.

5. 1991-1992 Chicago Bulls -- 115.5
9. 1995-1996 Chicago Bulls -- 115.2
16. 1990-1991 Chicago Bulls - 114.6
20. 1996-1997 Chicago Bulls - 114.4

See Full List: https://stathead.com/sharing/pqaEz

And he did this with no other great offensive players.

Could any modern player anchor such historic offenses with Paul George and Serge Ibaka as his 2nd and 3rd options? Those two guys are approximately on the level of Pippen and Grant offensively.

It's also worth noting that the list is significantly skewed towards the last five seasons which has eight teams in the top 20 and comprises the most offensive era in league history. And yet still the highest ORtg for a Lebron team is the 2016-2017 Cavs at #37.

Scottie Pippen was the organizer and quarterback of the Bulls offense, not Jordan. Pippen was the person responsible for ensuring that the triangle ran well and that MJ didn't sabotage it.

Pippen led those teams on both offense and defense, actually.

So start again.

[Axe]

Phil jackson was the mastermind of those teams, not doug collins.

[Stephonit]

MJ led his teams to four top 20 ORtg of all time.

5. 1991-1992 Chicago Bulls -- 115.5
9. 1995-1996 Chicago Bulls -- 115.2
16. 1990-1991 Chicago Bulls - 114.6
20. 1996-1997 Chicago Bulls - 114.4

See Full List: https://stathead.com/sharing/pqaEz

And he did this with no other great offensive players.

Could any modern player anchor such historic offenses with Paul George and Serge Ibaka as his 2nd and 3rd options? Those two guys are approximately on the level of Pippen and Grant offensively.

It's also worth noting that the list is significantly skewed towards the last five seasons which has eight teams in the top 20 and comprises the most offensive era in league history. And yet still the highest ORtg for a Lebron team is the 2016-2017 Cavs at #37.

Stephen Curry.

[Axe]

Stephen Curry.
:oldlol:

[Stephonit]

:oldlol:

True this thread is funny. Why the OP thinks of an inferior player to compare Jordan to when there is a better player that obviously meets the given criteria is head scratching.

[Axe]

True this thread is funny. Why the OP thinks of an inferior player to compare Jordan to when there is a better player that obviously meets the given criteria is head scratching.
Tbh i'd take those two players over the gerbil you are stanning here

[Stanley Kobrick]

Tbh i'd take those two players over the gerbil you are stanning here
:cheers:

[FireDavidKahn]

luka has lead the greatest offensive rating of all time...so he's better than Jordan? at only 20 years of age? :lebronamazed:

SHUT IT DOWN!

https://i.gifer.com/ace.gif
https://i.gifer.com/ace.gif
https://i.gifer.com/ace.gif

.

[dankok8]

Funny you guys mention Steph. As a pure offensive force (not overall...) there is a solid case to rank him over Lebron. I don't think Lebron could make a historically dominant team with Klay and Draymond as his two best teammates. Or Pippen and Grant.

[highwhey]

Funny you guys mention Steph. As a pure offensive force (not overall...) there is a solid case to rank him over Lebron. I don't think Lebron could make a historically dominant team with Klay and Draymond as his two best teammates. Or Pippen and Grant.

who cares about historically dominant? lebron has lead fringe nba players to the finals and he wins titles. that's all that matters, BLING BLING.

[3ball]

Jordan's triangles had far bigger margins over league average than Shaq/Kobe's triangles - that demonstrates Jordan's goat offensive ability

[Smoke117]

luka has lead the greatest offensive rating of all time...so he's better than Jordan? at only 20 years of age? :lebronamazed:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/cf535cbd550861526a8e29b69f6496d2/tenor.gif

Jordan already surpassed by an 20 year old unathletic foreign cracker. :roll:

[SATAN]

OP claimed he wasn't an MJ stan lol

[3ball]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/cf535cbd550861526a8e29b69f6496d2/tenor.gif

Jordan already surpassed by an 20 year old unathletic foreign cracker. :roll:
If he proves it wasn't a fluke via additional #1 offenses going forward, then I might agree

[dankok8]

who cares about historically dominant? lebron has lead fringe nba players to the finals and he wins titles. that's all that matters, BLING BLING.

What fringe NBA players? Wade? Bosh? Kyrie? Love? Davis?

[Smoke117]

If he proves it wasn't a fluke via additional #1 offenses going forward, then I might agree

I'll bookmark this.

[dankok8]

OP claimed he wasn't an MJ stan lol

Oh so I'm stan because I don't subscribe your bullshit LeGoat ideology. Got it.

[HoopsNY]

Gotta love how Bran stans desperately try to downplay guys like Wade, Kyrie, and AD, now going as far as saying they were "fringe" players. :lol

[3ball]

Gotta love how Bran stans desperately try to downplay guys like Wade, Kyrie, and AD, now going as far as saying they were "fringe" players. :lol


PLAYOFF PPG


1988 McHale.... 25.4
1988 Bird.......... 24.5

1986 McHale.... 24.9
1986 Bird....'...... 25.1

2011 Wade...... 24.5
2011 Lebron.... 23.7

2020 Davis.'..... 27.8
2020 Lebron.... 27.7

2016 Kyrie'...... 25.8
2016 Lebron... 26.2

1987 Worthy.... 23.6
1987 Magic...'.. 21.1


^^^ Lebron, Magic and everyone in history are "pippens" because they needed a "jordan" (someone that could outscore them).. Jordan is the only guy that just needed a pippen - someone that averaged 10-30 less in every series (with less career apg)..

Jordan infact invented the idea of "carry-jobs" when he first came on the scene - it was his claim to fame and what differentiated him from bird/magic/isiah (who had equal-scoring teammates).

And equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his #1 ranked PER, BPM, WS/48, and also VORP seasons).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s

[AirBonner]

1-9

[Smoke117]

Gotta love how Bran stans desperately try to downplay guys like Wade, Kyrie, and AD, now going as far as saying they were "fringe" players. :lol

Yeah, because the insane 3ball doesn't regularly go on about how Scottie Pippen, a player who is considered top 30, is and I quote "garbage", right?

[SATAN]

Oh so I'm stan because I don't subscribe your bullshit LeGoat ideology. Got it.

Almost every post your make is dedicated to keeping MJ on a pedestal. I mean, look how defensive you got over being labeled an MJ stan. :lol

[Axe]

Yeah, because the insane 3ball doesn't regularly go on about how Scottie Pippen, a player who is considered top 30, is and I quote "garbage", right?
Along with preferring doug collins over phil jackson as head coach

[SATAN]

Yeah, because the insane 3ball doesn't regularly go on about how Scottie Pippen, a player who is considered top 30, is and I quote "garbage", right?

HoopsNY is only here to attack LeBron fans. Very weird alt.

[HoopsNY]

Yeah, because the insane 3ball doesn't regularly go on about how Scottie Pippen, a player who is considered top 30, is and I quote "garbage", right?

Have you never me seen me say that 3ball is an ignoramus? Haven't you seen me on his Pippen threads opposing what he's said? It doesn't make the rhetoric of downplaying LeBron's supporting cast any less ridiculous.

[dankok8]

Almost every post your make is dedicated to keeping MJ on a pedestal. I mean, look how defensive you got over being labeled an MJ stan. :lol

Jordan vs. Lebron is the only thing most folks in here want to debate about. Even when I made a topic that has nothing to do with it like Hakeem vs. Duncan there's idiots making references to MJ or when I said the last five years in the NBA is seeing some major offensive inflation... people made it about Lebron vs. Jordan which wasn't the intention of the thread at all.

I'm not a bloody stan but I don't care if people think I am. I do believe Jordan is better than Lebron.

[1987_Lakers]

luka has lead the greatest offensive rating of all time...so he's better than Jordan? at only 20 years of age? :lebronamazed:

:roll:

[dankok8]

Still crickets in this thread with regards to the OP... How did MJ lead a guy averaging 20/7/6 on league average efficiency and another guy averaging 12/8/2 to a GOAT-level offense? It's not hard to answer. You guys can do it...

[Charlie Sheen]

It's also worth noting that the list is significantly skewed towards the last five seasons which has eight teams in the top 20 and comprises the most offensive era in league history. And yet still the highest ORtg for a Lebron team is the 2016-2017 Cavs at #37.

You draw the conclusion that ORtg is skewed towards the last 5 seasons because you don't know what you're looking at. It is a measure of efficiency not some indictment of Lebron.

Where do Shaq's teams rank? Care to make any firm conclusions based on that data?

[dankok8]

You draw the conclusion that ORtg is skewed towards the last 5 seasons because you don't know what you're looking at. It is a measure of efficiency not some indictment of Lebron.

Where do Shaq's teams rank? Care to make any firm conclusions based on that data?

It's not a conclusion. It is literally what the league numbers say.

[Gus Hemmingway]

PLAYOFF PPG


1988 McHale.... 25.4
1988 Bird.......... 24.5

1986 McHale.... 24.9
1986 Bird....'...... 25.1

2011 Wade...... 24.5
2011 Lebron.... 23.7

2020 Davis.'..... 27.8
2020 Lebron.... 27.7

2016 Kyrie'...... 25.8
2016 Lebron... 26.2

1987 Worthy.... 23.6
1987 Magic...'.. 21.1


^^^ Lebron, Magic and everyone in history are "pippens" because they needed a "jordan" (someone that could outscore them).. Jordan is the only guy that just needed a pippen - someone that averaged 10-30 less in every series (with less career apg)..

Jordan infact invented the idea of "carry-jobs" when he first came on the scene - it was his claim to fame and what differentiated him from bird/magic/isiah (who had equal-scoring teammates).

And equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his #1 ranked PER, BPM, WS/48, and also VORP seasons).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s


Can you post the same for 2012, 2013 LeBron?

[3ball]

Can you post the same for 2012, 2013 LeBron?
Wade already outscored Lebron in 2011, so Lebron had a teammate capable of outscoring him - it doesn't matter that it didn't happen every year

Only Jordan had a "pippen" (someone that scored 10-30 less in every series or playoffs)

[Charlie Sheen]

It's not a conclusion. It is literally what the league numbers say.

You started with your conclusion... "LeStans" is in your thread title for heaven's sake. Then you found a piece of evidence to fit your conclusion. It's supposed to work the other way around.

In my previous post, I overlooked 84-95 Orlando being shaq's lone appearance on the list at #10. You don't find it noteworthy that Horace Grant was also on that team? He was converting shots at a 57% clip in that bulls and magic season. Horace has a huge impact on what the ORtg is going to look like for a team. Not coincidentally, Penny shot the highest percentage of his career in 94-95. You don't know what the league numbers say because you don't understand what the stat you're citing is a measure of.

[3ball]

Wade already outscored Lebron in 2011, so Lebron had a teammate capable of outscoring him - it doesn't matter that it didn't happen every year

Only Jordan had a "pippen" (someone that scored 10-30 less in every series or playoffs)




Gussy? You breathin bud?

Ultimately, pippen's prime stats were achievable by anyone, including bums like JR Smith (15' ECF), Robert Horry (94' Finals), or Larry Hughes (05').

That's the caliber that Jordan won 6 rings with, which is why he's goat

[tpols]

Lebron teaming up with Wade, AD, Kyrie, Bosh, and Love offensively would be like MJ getting to play with Clyde, David Robinson, Kevin Johnson, Shawn Kemp, and Thunder Dan. It would be a competitive travesty so bad, MJ would probably quit for baseball again because it would be just too easy. He made it look easy with just Pippen (Paul George). Imagine what it would look like with that cast team hopping everywhere.

[dankok8]

You started with your conclusion... "LeStans" is in your thread title for heaven's sake. Then you found a piece of evidence to fit your conclusion. It's supposed to work the other way around.

In my previous post, I overlooked 84-95 Orlando being shaq's lone appearance on the list at #10. You don't find it noteworthy that Horace Grant was also on that team? He was converting shots at a 57% clip in that bulls and magic season. Horace has a huge impact on what the ORtg is going to look like for a team. Not coincidentally, Penny shot the highest percentage of his career in 94-95. You don't know what the league numbers say because you don't understand what the stat you're citing is a measure of.

I don't understand? Says the guy who's talking like Horace Grant averaging 10 shots a game is impacting team ORtg in a major way.

[dankok8]

Lebron teaming up with Wade, AD, Kyrie, Bosh, and Love offensively would be like MJ getting to play with Clyde, David Robinson, Kevin Johnson, Shawn Kemp, and Thunder Dan. It would be a competitive travesty so bad, MJ would probably quit for baseball again because it would be just too easy. He made it look easy with just Pippen (Paul George). Imagine what it would look like with that cast team hopping everywhere.

K. Love is much better than Thunder Dan but good point.

[tpols]

K. Love is much better than Thunder Dan but good point.

I was throwing them a bone. Not trying to exaggerate.

[Axe]

Lebron teaming up with Wade, AD, Kyrie, Bosh, and Love offensively would be like MJ getting to play with Clyde, David Robinson, Kevin Johnson, Shawn Kemp, and Thunder Dan. It would be a competitive travesty so bad, MJ would probably quit for baseball again because it would be just too easy. He made it look easy with just Pippen (Paul George). Imagine what it would look like with that cast team hopping everywhere.
Mj quit for baseball because the competition was so weak and that the league called on him for his gambling hobby

[Mr. Woke]

What matters is winning a championship, not having a #1 ranked offense.

Dallas was eliminated in round 1 by the Clippers last season.

#1 ranked offense my ass.

[Charlie Sheen]

I don't understand? Says the guy who's talking like Horace Grant averaging 10 shots a game is impacting team ORtg in a major way.

So you're just going to double down with stubbornness and sarcasm?


When the difference between the #1 and #100 team is 4.8, of course the third, fourth, fifth scorers are going to be the difference makers. That should be obvious. Every team on that list of 100 has a number one, and sometimes number 2 scorer on an all time efficient season.

The irony of this thread is your Ortgs show that Lebron has never had teammates anywhere as good at putting the ball in the basket as Jordan had.

ORtg is a boxscore stat. Pretty useless to draw conclusions from. My opinion. Don't quote me on this, but the jist of that formula is a measurement of true shooting across an entire team. The reason it doesn't even closely mirror efg when sorted is because free throws and offensive rebounding are also accounted for when calculating ORtg.

There was definitely a nicer way of explaining this than telling you that you don't understand. I apologize for that.

[Smoke117]

Lebron teaming up with Wade, AD, Kyrie, Bosh, and Love offensively would be like MJ getting to play with Clyde, David Robinson, Kevin Johnson, Shawn Kemp, and Thunder Dan. It would be a competitive travesty so bad, MJ would probably quit for baseball again because it would be just too easy. He made it look easy with just Pippen (Paul George). Imagine what it would look like with that cast team hopping everywhere.

lol Davis, Bosh, and Love are scrubs compared to David Robinson. The Admiral would have had those Pelican teams winning 50+ games every season.

[tpols]

lol Davis, Bosh, and Love are scrubs compared to David Robinson. The Admiral would have had those Pelican teams winning 50+ games every season.

AD is absolutely comparable to David Robinson. He put up better than 80's Kareem offensive metrics while still being a free roaming 7 footer with great defensive instincts. That's easy. Obviously Bosh and Love aren't as good as D-Rob. But if you paid attention I was comparing Bosh to Kemp and Love to Dan. But intelligence was never your strong suit eh?

[Axe]

Remember...

A wise philosopher once said "anthony davis is a better player than kareem abdul-jabbar".

:biggums:

[Smoke117]

AD is absolutely comparable to David Robinson. He put up better than 80's Kareem offensive metrics while still being a free roaming 7 footer with great defensive instincts. That's easy. Obviously Bosh and Love aren't as good as D-Rob. But if you paid attention I was comparing Bosh to Kemp and Love to Dan. But intelligence was never your strong suit eh?

lol Davis isn't half of what David Robinson was defensively. The Spurs fell from 3rd in 96 to dead last (29/29) in 97 when he played just 8 games hurt, dumb ass. The Pelicans got BETTER this season defensively without Davis. You're such a clown.

[Manny98]

Almost every post your make is dedicated to keeping MJ on a pedestal. I mean, look how defensive you got over being labeled an MJ stan. :lol
He's been full on defending MJ ever since the finals ended, shit is weird :lol

[dankok8]

lol Davis isn't half of what David Robinson was defensively. The Spurs fell from 3rd in 96 to dead last (29/29) in 97 when he played just 8 games hurt, dumb ass. The Pelicans got BETTER this season defensively without Davis. You're such a clown.

Don't exaggerate. Robinson was the better defensive player but Davis is the better offensive player. They are close in impact.

[dankok8]

He's been full on defending MJ ever since the finals ended, shit is weird :lol

Because 75% of this forum are stupid LeStans saying things that don't make sense. I'm also active on RealGM and I never engage in Jordan-Lebron conversations or very rarely because people there actually bring up valid points even if I disagree with them.

Peeps on here are like the less coherent versions of Colin Cowherd.

[Axe]

Because 75% of this forum are stupid LeStans saying things that don't make sense. I'm also active on RealGM and I never engage in Jordan-Lebron conversations or very rarely because people there actually bring up valid points even if I disagree with them.

Peeps on here are like the less coherent versions of Colin Cowherd.
Because there are tons of alts or dups in this board and then there's also 3ball who makes crappy ass threads 24/7