Stephen A.Smith: I would want Michael Jordan every day' over LeBron [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

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Kiddlovesnets

12-17-2020, 02:36 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfojYWsp2hY

:cheers:

highwhey

12-17-2020, 02:38 PM

the opinion of a professional troll is supposed to hold weight? literally a sports "journalist" who forms his opinion based on what his tv producers tell him for the day

https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/unimpressed.png

dankok8

12-17-2020, 02:51 PM

Stephen A is actually a way smarter guy than just about anyone on this forum regardless if you agree with him or not.

light

12-17-2020, 02:59 PM

He could and that's fine, but the dude who picked LeBron would win sooner and more often.

StrongLurk

12-17-2020, 03:12 PM

MJ is 1, Lebron is 2. As of now, this is indisputable.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

12-17-2020, 03:17 PM

I agree that BOTH are sitting at the same table.

Mike had a better peak/prime. Bron has better longevity.

Gus Hemmingway

12-17-2020, 03:22 PM

I agree that BOTH are sitting at the same table.

Mike had a better peak/prime. Bron has better longevity.

Lebrons prime/peak playoff stats and PER are higher than Jordan’s though

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

12-17-2020, 03:23 PM

Lebrons prime/peak playoff stats and higher than Jordan’s though

No they aren't.

8Ball

12-17-2020, 03:27 PM

Doesn't matter what old dinosaurs think.

They going extinct soon.

Gus Hemmingway

12-17-2020, 03:32 PM

No they aren't.

2018 LeBron

2009 LeBron

2020 LeBron

2017 LeBron

All had higher PERs than MJ

light

12-17-2020, 03:33 PM

No they aren't.

LeBron did statistical things in his conventional prime that Jordan never did and could never do. The only other players who put up those kinds of numbers before LeBron were hall of fame centers like Kareem and Wilt, for example.

LeBron was better than Jordan at every stage of their careers because he's smarter and just a better basketball player, period.

TheGoatest

12-17-2020, 03:44 PM

Emotional, not fact-based "my dad is stronger than your dad" preference.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/019/304/old.jpg

Stephen A. exposed himself as someone who is uncapable of looking at the LeBron Vs Jordan debate in a factual, un-biased manner many years ago when he said that LeBron will "never" be greater than Jordan. Basically admitting that he is a Jordan cultist and no rational evidence will sway him away from being a Jordan cultist.

HoopsNY

12-17-2020, 03:48 PM

Jordan was never outplayed by a teammate, opponent, was the more elite defender and scorer. He had no weaknesses in his game and his clutch stats blow LeBron out of the water.

LeBron is a better passer and rebounder, though MJ's passing is severely underrated. LeBron is also the more versatile defender, which depending upon the situation, you would want LeBron over MJ.

No one's peak touches MJ, though. And his clutch stats really show that when you consider his clutch states from 1997 and 1998. In addition, he gave up 2 years of his peak where he would have easily added 5,200 points, 1,200 rebounds, and 1,000 assists to his totals, in addition to at least one more title, FMVP, and MVP, 2 All-NBA 1st team selections, 2 All-Defensive 1st Team selections, and 2 All-Star MVPs.

LeBron stans are afraid of that thought, especially if MJ 8-peats. :lol

TheGoatest

12-17-2020, 03:51 PM

Jordan was never outplayed by a teammate, opponent

:roll:

Stopped reading this sh!t right here, as both of these took place in the 1996 NBA finals.

Kiddlovesnets

12-17-2020, 04:14 PM

MJ is 1, Lebron is 2. As of now, this is indisputable.

MJ is #1, Lebron is #4. Id take Kareem and Magic in between MJ and Lebron.

HoopsNY

12-17-2020, 04:45 PM

:roll:

Stopped reading this sh!t right here, as both of these took place in the 1996 NBA finals.

No they didn't. Did you watch that series?

Kemp went 23/10/2 on 55% with an 18.9 GmSc.

Jordan went 27/5/4 on 42% with an 18.5 GmSc.

One player was guarded by Gary Payton the majority of the time, while the other was guarded by Luc Longley the majority of the time. Phil Jackson switched Longley onto Kemp after game 1.

In addition, Jordan was more impactful defensively. If you watched that series, you knew that Ron Harper went down with an injury and Phil put MJ to guard GP. So who was Kemp guarding while MJ guarded GP?

MJ was never outplayed by anyone. Period.

So kindly explain how MJ was "outplayed" by another player in that series.

1987_Lakers

12-17-2020, 05:07 PM

Jordan was never outplayed by a teammate, opponent, was the more elite defender and scorer.

I mean just look at the '87-'88 stretch where they matched up 10 times in the season and once in the playoffs. Both were healthy and MVP caliber players so no excuses for either player...

11/14/86
Bird - 37/10/5 (13/25 shooting)
Jordan - 48/5/1 (17/33 shooting)

Celtics win, I'd say it's a wash though.

01/02/87
Bird - 37/8/9 (61.1%)
Jordan - 34/8/3 (41.9%)

Celtics win, Bird easily wins the matchup. Highlights of the game here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=3ChmRhlFzk0&feature=emb_title
. As you can see Jordan made a pitiful attempt at guarding him.

27/01/87
Bird - 24/14/3 (39%)
Jordan - 30/6/4 (38%)

Celtics win. Wash.

28/01/87
Bird - 26/5/9 (65%)
Jordan - 27/4/4 (48%)
Celtics win. Bird wins matchup.

27/03/87
Bird - 41/7/7 (58.6%)
Jordan - 22/7/7 (39.1%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup.

17/04/87
Bird - 38/8/7 (59%)
Jordan - 17/4/8 (33%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup.

12/01/88
Bird - 38/9/8 (58%)
Jordan - 42/4/6 (53%)

Celtics win. Bird wins matchup.

18/03/88
Bird - 19/10/6
Jordan - 50/9/5

Bulls win. Jordan finally wins head to head.

20/03/88
Bird - 33/7/8 (67%)
Jordan - 26/4/7 (56%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup. Highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp0NMFf9Dkg&feature=emb_title

21/04/88
Bird - 44/10/3 (65.5%)
Jordan - 39/3/8 (51.5%)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdMjK-60H-k

Celtics win. Bird wins matchup *yawn*

Bird's record in this stretch? 9-1 while outperforming him in nearly every game. What makes this worse? Bird made Jordan look like a child when Jordan tried to guard him. Meanwhile the possessions I saw Bird guard Jordan, he defended him quite well (definitly wasn't gambling for steals to leave him open in the post).

Moreover, Jordan is 0-6 in the playoffs including this disaster in '87: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVMJSCTj5Y (Jordan makes 0 shots in the 4th quarter...Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left...but Bird showed up when it mattered while Jordan was no where to be seen)

3ball

12-17-2020, 05:21 PM

Jordan's 8 seeds did better against bird than lebron's high seeds against KD in 17' and 18'

Ultimately, Jordan's 8 seeds from 86' and 87' equal lebron's 9 seeds from 04' and 05'.. so people are criticizing Jordan for losing to the goat Warriors with lebron's 04/05 teams.

Axe

12-17-2020, 05:49 PM

I mean just look at the '87-'88 stretch where they matched up 10 times in the season and once in the playoffs. Both were healthy and MVP caliber players so no excuses for either player...

11/14/86
Bird - 37/10/5 (13/25 shooting)
Jordan - 48/5/1 (17/33 shooting)

Celtics win, I'd say it's a wash though.

01/02/87
Bird - 37/8/9 (61.1%)
Jordan - 34/8/3 (41.9%)

Celtics win, Bird easily wins the matchup. Highlights of the game here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=3ChmRhlFzk0&feature=emb_title
. As you can see Jordan made a pitiful attempt at guarding him.

27/01/87
Bird - 24/14/3 (39%)
Jordan - 30/6/4 (38%)

Celtics win. Wash.

28/01/87
Bird - 26/5/9 (65%)
Jordan - 27/4/4 (48%)
Celtics win. Bird wins matchup.

27/03/87
Bird - 41/7/7 (58.6%)
Jordan - 22/7/7 (39.1%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup.

17/04/87
Bird - 38/8/7 (59%)
Jordan - 17/4/8 (33%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup.

12/01/88
Bird - 38/9/8 (58%)
Jordan - 42/4/6 (53%)

Celtics win. Bird wins matchup.

18/03/88
Bird - 19/10/6
Jordan - 50/9/5

Bulls win. Jordan finally wins head to head.

20/03/88
Bird - 33/7/8 (67%)
Jordan - 26/4/7 (56%)

Celtics win. Bird easily wins matchup. Highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp0NMFf9Dkg&feature=emb_title

21/04/88
Bird - 44/10/3 (65.5%)
Jordan - 39/3/8 (51.5%)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdMjK-60H-k

Celtics win. Bird wins matchup *yawn*

Bird's record in this stretch? 9-1 while outperforming him in nearly every game. What makes this worse? Bird made Jordan look like a child when Jordan tried to guard him. Meanwhile the possessions I saw Bird guard Jordan, he defended him quite well (definitly wasn't gambling for steals to leave him open in the post).

Moreover, Jordan is 0-6 in the playoffs including this disaster in '87: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVMJSCTj5Y (Jordan makes 0 shots in the 4th quarter...Bulls had a 7 point lead with 11 minutes left...but Bird showed up when it mattered while Jordan was no where to be seen)
*Quotes a poster that was talking about baldan having no weaknesses during his prime

*Makes a post about him vs. larry bird h2h within 3 years prior the bulls got pippen to make baldan look miserable

Wow what a brilliant shtick lmao

dankok8

12-17-2020, 06:26 PM

No they didn't. Did you watch that series?

Kemp went 23/10/2 on 55% with an 18.9 GmSc.

Jordan went 27/5/4 on 42% with an 18.5 GmSc.

One player was guarded by Gary Payton the majority of the time, while the other was guarded by Luc Longley the majority of the time. Phil Jackson switched Longley onto Kemp after game 1.

In addition, Jordan was more impactful defensively. If you watched that series, you knew that Ron Harper went down with an injury and Phil put MJ to guard GP. So who was Kemp guarding while MJ guarded GP?

MJ was never outplayed by anyone. Period.

So kindly explain how MJ was "outplayed" by another player in that series.

Using the 1996 Finals against Jordan is the stupidest argument ever. Of course he didn't get outplayed.

Through the first three games when the Bulls took a 3-0 lead Jordan averaged 31/5/5 on 59 %TS... He won the Finals MVP based on those performances and his struggles in the last three games of that series weren't enough to overturn that. A lot of teenagers on here also can't comprehend that those Sonics played REAL DEFENSE... get in your face, physical, constantly trash-talking, using dirty tactics etc. League average TS% and low pace show pretty clearly that it was a much more defensive era. Payton switched full time on MJ in Game 4 and was able to bother him. Peeps on here are ignorant about how good GP was on D.

The only thing these jokers have is cherrypicking stats that suit them including 1987_Lakers pulling up numbers from the 86-87 and 87-88 regular seasons. As if peak Bird outplaying MJ in some regular season games means squat especially when they didn't guard each other. MJ in 6 playoff losses against Bird's Celtics put up almost 40/7/6 on 56 %TS and some of those games were close losses. Bird definitely didn't outplay him there. And he conveniently ignores rookie Jordan outproducing Bird in 84-85. From now on if you want to post Bird vs. Jordan H2H stats post all of their career meetings.

Jordan may get ridiculously hyped by mythologists who call him untouchable (he was human after all...) but in their primes the vast majority of people would take MJ over Lebron as the better basketball player. Who's the GOAT i.e. more accomplished is up for debate. Kareem, Russell and Lebron both have a case over Jordan there but few will claim that those guys were better basketball players.

Jordan won more than Lebron as the best player on this team and never got outplayed in the playoffs.

RRR3

12-17-2020, 06:40 PM

I agree that BOTH are sitting at the same table.

Mike had a better peak/prime. Bron has better longevity.
A reasonable take which means both LeBron and Jordan stans will get mad at you :oldlol:

RRR3

12-17-2020, 06:42 PM

*Quotes a poster that was talking about baldan having no weaknesses during his prime

*Makes a post about him vs. larry bird h2h within 3 years prior the bulls got pippen to make baldan look miserable

Wow what a brilliant shtick lmao
He just refuted a dumb statement :confusedshrug:

HoopsNY

12-17-2020, 06:52 PM

He just refuted a dumb statement :confusedshrug:

How is it dumb? Jordan never got outplayed in the playoffs. Prove me otherwise. Using a bunch of regular season statistics to disprove a claim about the playoffs doesn't prove anything. Yet I'm the one making "dumb" statements? Give me a break.

Using the 1996 Finals against Jordan is the stupidest argument ever. Of course he didn't get outplayed.

Through the first three games when the Bulls took a 3-0 lead Jordan averaged 31/5/5 on 59 %TS... He won the Finals MVP based on those performances and his struggles in the last three games of that series weren't enough to overturn that. A lot of teenagers on here also can't comprehend that those Sonics played REAL DEFENSE... get in your face, physical, constantly trash-talking, using dirty tactics etc. League average TS% and low pace show pretty clearly that it was a much more defensive era. Payton switched full time on MJ in Game 4 and was able to bother him. Peeps on here are ignorant about how good GP was on D.

The only thing these jokers have is cherrypicking stats that suit them including 1987_Lakers pulling up numbers from the 86-87 and 87-88 regular seasons. As if peak Bird outplaying MJ in some regular season games means squat especially when they didn't guard each other. MJ in 6 playoff losses against Bird's Celtics put up almost 40/7/6 on 56 %TS and some of those games were close losses. Bird definitely didn't outplay him there. And he conveniently ignores rookie Jordan outproducing Bird in 84-85. From now on if you want to post Bird vs. Jordan H2H stats post all of their career meetings.

Jordan may get ridiculously hyped by mythologists who call him untouchable (he was human after all...) but in their primes the vast majority of people would take MJ over Lebron as the better basketball player. Who's the GOAT i.e. more accomplished is up for debate. Kareem, Russell and Lebron both have a case over Jordan there but few will claim that those guys were better basketball players.

Jordan won more than Lebron as the best player on this team and never got outplayed in the playoffs.

I doubt he watched that series. If he did he would know who guarded MJ for half the series and the fact that Kemp was guarded by Longley for 5/6 games. In addition, Kemp had no real defensive assignment, unless he thinks Rodman was some offensive juggernaut. Not to mention that MJ had to expend energy and limit GP in the games Harper was injured. These guys don't account for any of that.

The problem with Bran stans is that they've been largely raised in an era where defense has declined, so defensive arguments are automatically thrown out of the window and given little regard.

When you mention how well MJ played or consider who defended him, such as the Defensive Player of the Year, Gary Payton, the numbers start to make a bit more sense.

It's kind of like the 2014 finals where Bran stans don't want to admit that Kawhi outplayed LeBron for the series. They will never admit that games 3-4-5 were all about Kawhi both offensively and defensively.

They also won't account for how well Kawhi guarded LeBron during those games. To them, you just look at a box score and that's it.

warriorfan

12-17-2020, 06:59 PM

Let me know when Michael Jordan joins with the 2nd and 4th highest PER and gets outscored by Jason Terry in the Finals.

HoopsNY

12-17-2020, 06:59 PM

A reasonable take which means both LeBron and Jordan stans will get mad at you :oldlol:

You can't argue against either. MJ clearly had the better peak whereas LeBron clearly has the greatest longevity ever.

Jasper

12-17-2020, 06:59 PM

Jasper

12-17-2020, 07:02 PM

r0drig0lac

12-17-2020, 08:07 PM

2018 LeBron

2009 LeBron

2020 LeBron

2017 LeBron

All had higher PERs than MJ

this stat is based on comparisons with players from the same era (or in the same season to be more exact), honestly, i really don't see how to compare these stats in different years and eras show something.

bullettooth

12-17-2020, 08:20 PM

Stephen A is actually a way smarter guy than just about anyone on this forum regardless if you agree with him or not.

Low bar considering most of the forum is just a LeBron dick rider with multiple accounts.

3ball

12-17-2020, 08:28 PM

Lebron-ball isn't a #1 offense (17-year sample), so his Bulls wouldn't be as good as Jordan's were (juggernaut #1 offenses)

Carry on in ignorance

SATAN

12-17-2020, 08:35 PM

OP is a casual who gets spoon fed opinions into his tiny mind from the likes of ESPN

3ball

12-17-2020, 08:38 PM

OP is a casual who gets spoon fed opinions into his tiny mind from the likes of ESPN

Stephen A Smith knows that Lebron-ball isn't a #1 offense (17-year sample), so his Bulls wouldn't be as good as Jordan's were (juggernaut #1 offenses)

dankok8

12-17-2020, 08:42 PM

How is it dumb? Jordan never got outplayed in the playoffs. Prove me otherwise. Using a bunch of regular season statistics to disprove a claim about the playoffs doesn't prove anything. Yet I'm the one making "dumb" statements? Give me a break.

I doubt he watched that series. If he did he would know who guarded MJ for half the series and the fact that Kemp was guarded by Longley for 5/6 games. In addition, Kemp had no real defensive assignment, unless he thinks Rodman was some offensive juggernaut. Not to mention that MJ had to expend energy and limit GP in the games Harper was injured. These guys don't account for any of that.

The problem with Bran stans is that they've been largely raised in an era where defense has declined, so defensive arguments are automatically thrown out of the window and given little regard.

When you mention how well MJ played or consider who defended him, such as the Defensive Player of the Year, Gary Payton, the numbers start to make a bit more sense.

It's kind of like the 2014 finals where Bran stans don't want to admit that Kawhi outplayed LeBron for the series. They will never admit that games 3-4-5 were all about Kawhi both offensively and defensively.

They also won't account for how well Kawhi guarded LeBron during those games. To them, you just look at a box score and that's it.

That's the problem with only reading boxscores. To think that most of these jokers probably think that Lebron in 2014 had a better Finals than Jordan in 1996. This forum has degenerated to stans and trolls just going back and forth with no arguments. I remember having and witnessing some terrific debates on these boards like a decade ago.

AirBonner

12-17-2020, 08:42 PM

Stephen A Smith knows that Lebron-ball isn't a #1 offense (17-year sample), so his Bulls wouldn't be as good as Jordan's were (juggernaut #1 offenses)

MJ unfortunately is shackled to two people for his success

SATAN

12-17-2020, 08:47 PM

MJ unfortunately is shackled to two people for his success

Interesting.

1987_Lakers

12-17-2020, 09:10 PM

That's the problem with only reading boxscores.

The same applies for '87 Bird vs Jordan, in my opinion, Bird outplayed Jordan in that series. In game 3 in the 4th quarter the Bulls had an 8 point lead at one point, Celtics were without McHale & Bird proceeds to score 10+ points and takes over the game in the 4th while MJ is shooting brick after brick.

3ball

12-17-2020, 09:12 PM

The same applies for '87 Bird vs Jordan, in my opinion, Bird outplayed Jordan in that series. In game 3 in the 4th quarter the Bulls had an 8 point lead at one point, Celtics were without McHale & Bird proceeds to score 10+ points and takes over the game in the 4th while MJ is shooting brick after brick.

Jordan's bulls compared to lebron's 05' Cavs, while Bird's Celtics compare to Durant's Warriors

Would you criticize the 05' Cavs for losing to the Warriors? (he lost in 17' with a big 3 worse than Jordan's 8 seed lost)

3ball

12-17-2020, 09:16 PM

Axe

12-17-2020, 09:17 PM

Would you criticize the 05' Cavs for losing to the Warriors? (he lost in 17' with a big 3 worse than Jordan's 8 seed lost)
Lol wut

AlternativeAcc.

12-17-2020, 09:21 PM

Stephen A is actually a way smarter guy than just about anyone on this forum regardless if you agree with him or not.

Even if this were true, what relevance to the topic does it have? General intelligence =/ sports knowledge

And Stephen a is a talking head buffoon who happens to be well spoken and black so they put him on TV because he fits the role. His sports takes range from non insightful to atrocious.

He's educated and well spoken. There's nothing I've seen that indicates hes actually super intelligent and hes certainly no sports wiz.

Embarrasing take all around.

3ball

12-17-2020, 09:23 PM

Lol wut

The 85-87' Bulls won 30-40 games and therefore compare to Lebron's 04/05/19 teams as borderline lottery seeds (8 or 9 seeds).

So Jordan's lottery casts lost to Bird's great teams, which would be like lebron's 05' or 19' teams losing to KD Warriors

Would you knock lebron for losing to KD with the lottery 05' Cavs? Obviously not, since you didn't knock lebron for losing to KD with a big 3

If you can't understand that, then you're a dumbass and should get your GED

Axe

12-17-2020, 09:25 PM

The 85-87' Bulls won 30-40 games and therefore compare to Lebron's 04/05/19 teams as borderline lottery seeds (8 or 9 seeds).

So Jordan's lottery casts lost to Bird's great teams, which would be like lebron's 05' or 19' teams losing to KD Warriors

If you can't understand that, then you're a dumbass and should get your GED
Except the 85-87 bulls weren't conference champions dummy

3ball

12-17-2020, 09:27 PM

Except the 85-87 bulls weren't conference champions dummy

The 04/05 Cavs weren't conference champs either

Axe

12-17-2020, 09:40 PM

The 04/05 Cavs weren't conference champs either
But the 07 cavs were, when king kong was just 22 years old.

3ball

12-17-2020, 10:04 PM

But the 07 cavs were, when king kong was just 22 years old.

The 06' Cavs weren't the 05' Cavs

The 05' Cavs were a 42-win, 9 seed that improved to a 50-win, 4 seed in 06' by adding a 22/5/5 all-defender, the future COY, and a top 5 defense.. they became a developed, high seed by 06/07, after being a lottery team in 05'.

And guys like Iverson, Dwight and Kidd won the East as a 1-star team just like lebron in 07'.. otoh, a super-team with many HOF's was required to win the 80's East

Axe

12-17-2020, 10:06 PM

The 06' Cavs weren't the 05' Cavs

The 05' Cavs were a 42-win, 9 seed that improved to a 50-win, 4 seed in 06' by adding a 22/5/5 all-defender, the future COY, and a top 5 defense.. they became a developed, high seed by 06/07, after being a lottery team in 05'.

And guys like Iverson, Dwight and Kidd won the East as a 1-star team just like lebron in 07'.. otoh,va super-team with many HOF's was required to win the 80's East
What's baldan's age when he made the finals?

3ball

12-17-2020, 10:07 PM

What's baldan's age when he made the finals?
A super-team with many HOF's was required to win the 80's East, so LeFraud's 07' Cavs had no chance..

none of the trashy, 1-star teams that won the 00's East would stand a chance in the 80's East (Iverson's Sixers, Dwight's Magic, Kidd's Nets)

1987_Lakers

12-17-2020, 10:07 PM

Jordan's bulls compared to lebron's 05' Cavs, while Bird's Celtics compare to Durant's Warriors

Would you criticize the 05' Cavs for losing to the Warriors? (he lost in 17' with a big 3 worse than Jordan's 8 seed lost)

We are talking about the '87 Celtics without McHale, their 2nd best player, no Walton as well, not even close to being on the level of the Durant Warriors.

Axe

12-17-2020, 10:08 PM

A super-team with many HOF's was required to win the 80's East, so LeFraud's 07' Cavs had no chance
Another deflection as usual :confusedshrug:

Axe

12-17-2020, 10:09 PM

We are talking about the '87 Celtics without McHale, their 2nd best player, no Walton as well, not even close to being on the level of the Durant Warriors.
Funny how 3ball wouldn't also admit nor say that they would have challenged them somehow if the bulls already had pippen in their roster

3ball

12-17-2020, 10:14 PM

Another deflection as usual :confusedshrug:

Lebron played in a shit conference - this fact nullifies the point you're trying to make - it doesn't matter that 07' lebron made the Finals because Iverson, Kidd and Dwight made it with 1-star teams too - it wasn't a goat accomplishment, although an elite one..

And these 1-star teams wouldn't stand a chance in the super-team 80's, whereas 80's mj would dominate the 00's East.. 89' Jordan beat the #1 SRS team and their 3 all-stars, so that's better than the #4 SRS Magic in 09', or any team lebron beat in the East.

Smoke117

12-17-2020, 10:15 PM

Lebron played in a shit conference - this fact nullifies the point you're trying to make - it doesn't matter that 07' lebron made the Finals because Iverson, Kidd and Dwight made it with 1-star teams too - it wasn't a goat accomplishment, although an elite one..

And these 1-star teams wouldn't stand a chance in the super-team 80's.. whereas 89' Jordan beat the #1 SRS team and their 3 all-stars, so that's better than the #4 SRS Magic in 09', any team lebron beat in the East.

lol The 90s West was much more competitive than the 90s east, dipshit.

3ball

12-17-2020, 10:15 PM

Lebron played in a shit conference - this fact nullifies the point you're trying to make - it doesn't matter that 07' lebron made the Finals because Iverson, Kidd and Dwight made it with 1-star teams too - it wasn't a goat accomplishment, although an elite one..

And these 1-star teams wouldn't stand a chance in the super-team 80's, whereas 80's mj would dominate the 00's East.. 89' Jordan beat the #1 SRS team and their 3 all-stars, so that's better than the #4 SRS Magic in 09', or any team lebron beat in the East.

Anyone?

Axe

12-17-2020, 10:18 PM

Lebron played in a shit conference - this fact nullifies the point you're trying to make - it doesn't matter that 07' lebron made the Finals because Iverson, Kidd and Dwight made it with 1-star teams too - it wasn't a goat accomplishment, although an elite one..

And these 1-star teams wouldn't stand a chance in the super-team 80's, whereas 80's mj would dominate the 00's East.. 89' Jordan beat the #1 SRS team and their 3 all-stars, so that's better than the #4 SRS Magic in 09', or any team lebron beat in the East.
So under your logic about going out of the east in the 80s, you need two or more greats, all-stars, hofs or whatever you call it. In baldan's case, he had pippen.

3ball

12-17-2020, 10:26 PM

So under your logic about going out of the east in the 80s, you need two or more greats, all-stars, hofs or whatever you call it. In baldan's case, he had pippen.

88' pippen was a rookie off the bench and averaged 8 ppg and below replacement level

Anyone was better than him

Axe

12-17-2020, 10:31 PM

88' pippen was a rookie off the bench and averaged 8 ppg and below replacement level

Anyone was better than him
Because he wasn't ripe yet, doofus. But you can't overlook the fact that '88 was the only time baldan started going out of the first round for the first time ever, showing that he can't do all things on his own alone.

HoopsNY

12-17-2020, 11:40 PM

We are talking about the '87 Celtics without McHale, their 2nd best player, no Walton as well, not even close to being on the level of the Durant Warriors.

Exposed in the other thread. McHale played in 2/3 games and dropped 21/8/3 on 51%. Walton played in all 3 games. This stan is acting like mJ was supposed to take the 8th seed to victory against one of the greatest teams ever put together. :lol

dankok8

12-18-2020, 01:57 AM

Exposed in the other thread. McHale played in 2/3 games and dropped 21/8/3 on 51%. Walton played in all 3 games. This stan is acting like mJ was supposed to take the 8th seed to victory against one of the greatest teams ever put together. :lol

I used to think these guys were trolls but their persistence makes me think they believe their own shit.

HoopsNY

12-18-2020, 08:58 AM

I used to think these guys were trolls but their persistence makes me think they believe their own shit.

They most certainly do.

Baller789

12-18-2020, 10:39 AM

Smoke, light, woke, the corp, satan, all1day, 8ball, etc.

All made if the same weaksauce sh!t.

I've given up having a proper discussion with their delusions quite a while back.

I'd like some Lebrontard to quote me, so I could have some more fun!

Kiddlovesnets

12-18-2020, 11:28 AM

Lebron will surpass Magic by winning his 5th ring, and Kareem if he wins 6th. Hes theoretically impossible to surpass MJ since the 100% finals record is a necessary condition for GOAT. AD, Giannis and Doncic still have their shots, if they can go 7/7 with at least 6 FMVPs.

AirBonner

12-18-2020, 11:36 AM

Kiddlovesnets

12-18-2020, 11:44 AM

Sorry but a 100% fmvp is a necessary condition to being goat. LeBron still there

Nope, Lebron only has 40% FMVP record, it will count all the finals appearances in the denominator, not just the ones you won.

8Ball

12-18-2020, 11:46 AM

8Ball

12-18-2020, 11:49 AM

Kiddlovesnets

12-18-2020, 11:49 AM

WTF is this arbitrary record crap for GOAT?

I hereby decree that having 13 All-NBA first teams is necessary condition for being the GOAT.

Or 40 000 points is necessary condition for being the GOAT.

'cause when you win the finals as FMVP, you are usually the best player in the league. And if you win both MVP/FMVP in the same season, its guaranteed/clear-cut best in the league. What does all-NBA first team prove? You are the best at your position, thats about it.

8Ball

12-18-2020, 11:51 AM

Tony Parker.
Paul Pierce.
Kawhi 2014
Iguodala
Chauncey Billups
Isiah Thomas

I can go on and on and on. Some none top 10 players have won finals MVP.

If you get ALL-NBA 1st team, you are one of the best 5 players in the world, clear cut, no discussion. Not the case with FMVP.

Kiddlovesnets

12-18-2020, 11:51 AM

Robert Horry is 7/7

Apparently I said that 100% finals record is a necessary condition only, but not a sufficient condition, can you tell the difference or not? Horry being 7/7 means hes eligible for comparison with MJ, but he falls out quickly considering he has no FMVP/MVP in any single season.

Kiddlovesnets

12-18-2020, 11:56 AM

WTF is this arbitrary record crap for GOAT? You are using team accomplishment for individual comparison.

I hereby decree that having 13 All-NBA first teams is necessary condition for being the GOAT.

Or 40 000 points is necessary condition for being the GOAT.

Apparently Shawn Kemp agrees with me:
https://pagesix.com/2020/11/09/nba-great-believes-lebron-james-can-never-top-michael-jordan/

:cheers:

8Ball

12-18-2020, 11:58 AM

So it's not a sufficient condition. Noted. Meaning there are multitude of other variables to consider.

Greatness by definition includes degree of dominance and length of dominance. Size, skill, achievement, power. All of it has to be considered.

So you can't arbitrarily cut out conditions since that means you are cutting short the actual definition of greatness.

8Ball

12-18-2020, 11:59 AM

Apparently Shawn Kemp agrees with me:
https://pagesix.com/2020/11/09/nba-great-believes-lebron-james-can-never-top-michael-jordan/

:cheers:

Oh right, 1 man's opinion. Shannon Sharpe agrees with me. :cheers:

Kiddlovesnets

12-18-2020, 12:02 PM

Oh right, 1 man's opinion. Shannon Sharpe agrees with me. :cheers:

Well SAS also agrees with me, MJ-fam stay winning.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?488384-Stephen-A-Smith-I-would-want-Michael-Jordan-every-day-over-LeBron

:cheers:

8Ball

12-18-2020, 12:05 PM

Well SAS also agrees with me, MJ-fam stay winning.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?488384-Stephen-A-Smith-I-would-want-Michael-Jordan-every-day-over-LeBron

:cheers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoNjZjsCryI&ab_channel=FirstThingsFirst

Nick Wright agrees with me. He has just as loud a mouth as SAS.

Mr. Woke

12-18-2020, 06:37 PM

SAS is a delusional shill on MJ's payroll.

Manny98

12-18-2020, 08:43 PM

Don't you guys get tired of debating MJ vs LeBron every f*cking day :oldlol:

SATAN

12-18-2020, 09:25 PM

Don't you guys get tired of debating MJ vs LeBron every f*cking day :oldlol:

This.

LeBron is the GOAT. People need to accept it and move on.

Kiddlovesnets

12-18-2020, 09:28 PM

This.

LeBron is the GOAT. People need to accept it and move on.

MJ is the GOAT, Lebron is the FFOAT.
:(

SouBeachTalents

12-18-2020, 09:31 PM

Why do y'all even engage OP, he's a fcking buffoon who literally repeats the same 3 posts hundreds of times :lol

Axe

12-18-2020, 10:14 PM

Why do y'all even engage OP, he's a fcking buffoon who literally repeats the same 3 posts hundreds of times :lol
I'm afraid king kong's lequatro got him in shambles since two months ago :ohwell:

Baller789

12-19-2020, 01:20 AM

I'm afraid king kong's lequatro got him in shambles since two months ago :ohwell:
Should we talk about Steph Curry instead?