Bosh = all-nba and 5x all-star pre-lebron.... Pau = 1x all-star pre-kobe

[3ball]

Bosh > Pau before they teamed up with lebron/kobe - so what happened??

Pau's game exploded alongside kobe and he became perennial all-nba, while Bosh disappeared in Bron-ball

[RRR3]

1-9

[FireDavidKahn]

Gasol led his team to more play offs then Bosh

[AirBonner]

No Pippen no chip n’

[StrongLurk]

Pau's game didn't change at all because he was a second option big man. Just like how AD's game didn't change at all with Lebron because AD is a second option big man.

Bosh/Love were both 3rd options behind two perimeter players (Dwade/Lebron, Kyrie/Lebron).

[3ball]

No Pippen no chip n’

Lebron never won without a sidekick that had higher career BPM, PER, VORP and WS/48 then Pippen

He literally never won without a sidekick that was way better than pippen

Ultimately, everyone in history had a teammate outscore them for a playoff run - so everyone needed a "Jordan" teammate that could outscore them, while only Jordan needed just a "pippen", who scored far less in every series

[AirBonner]

Gotta say I find myself agreeing for the most part but if you have a moment to spare between the many beautiful women enamored with your 980 or so topics on this subject I hoped you might clear something up for me while stats are the issue.....




We all know Jordan scored a lot. Most per game ever in fact. But might he score a little less in today’s league that isn’t so overflowing with guys like Kelly Tripuka?


You know Kelly I’m sure. Good scorer when given enough volume. Made noise scoring ineffective but high totals running with those 120ppg pre bad boy pistons being fed by Isiah. Let him shoot a lot and not play D and he’s happy.




My issue is...why was he and so many like him....always guarding an athlete of Jordan’s caliber? And doing so in a fashion that suggested they either didn’t have film study or didn’t pay attention to it. They were everywhere in the 80s. There were entire teams of Kelly Tripuka with maybe one guy to break up the trend. Like this







Aside from Kelly himself you have a 5’2” 130 pound Muggsy and a 6’2” already balding drug addict who eventually got caught shoplifting from an Apple store to feed his habit. Greg Kite who’s career highlight was being called “Scrappy” for getting 9 rebounds off the bench vs the Lakers one time and past his prime Kurt Rambis who even in his prime was most famous for getting clotheslined by Kevin Mchale.


With that lineup who can you put on an athlete of MJs caliber? It’s Kelly, the thieving junkie, or the one guy with some defense to him....Muggsy.


Some assume that famous pic of him guarded by Bogues was like...a weird switch or something. No. He was the assigned defender. This is off the tip:






Muggsy runs to his assignment. He’s who has MJ.


And he did his best....on the perimeter at least. He didn’t have the size to even bother once his man was in the paint. Notice MJ getting the easy dump in and uncontested layup before giving Muggsy a little “You’ll get me next time little fella” tap:






MJ wouldn’t traditionally even give the guy a chance and try to take him off the dribble. Immediately call for the clear out to bully the little guy.






And Muggsy actually gets a clean strip! So why the whistle? An illegal D was called because the Hornets had the audacity to have a help defender in position to support Muggsy.


So Jordan literally got a technical free throw because the other team tried to defend him well despite the mismatch.

[AirBonner]

Here he is guarded by another guy who is essentially Kelly Tripuka(with Kelly himself off to the right. I’m telling you Kelly Tripuka is in the building somewhere on 70% of the baskets Jordan scored in the 80s). This time it’s the not quite legendary Bill Hansen. Pictured here looking perplexed at the very notion of defense:

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2012141816180362.jpeg



Those are the standards of the 80s. Anyway this is how he chooses to defend a GOAT tier slasher who made 12(12!) threes that season:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HighMenacingAdmiralbutterfly-size_restricted.gif




Would anyone who had ever heard of a scouting report step out that far on a no jumper having athletic beast? You come out and stand there flat footed and usher him into the lane?




He’s made 4 threes to that point in the season. It was one of like 5 seasons he made less 3s than Steph has made in a single game. And they send concrete feet doughboys to check him chest to chest 25 feet from the basket.


But the deal at the time was to just let him have his and hope his selfishness kept the team from scoring enough around him. They just didn’t care what he did. This is 2.5 Kelly Tripukas explaining that(I won’t call Ainge a full Kelly...he was tough):



<span class="s1">
https://youtu.be/0B-xWc_oJ1E


The one non Kelly had clearly spent too much time with them and flat out said “Just let him go!”. That’s how the 80s saw it. Don’t change the approach. Throw waves of individual Kelly Tripukas and midgets at him with unsound tactics and hope for the best.

..

[3ball]

Today's game has a higher proportion of white guys and euros that just shoot threes, especially at SG, so Jordan would score easier today

Shooters like harden, curry and korver are less athletic than the studs Jordan faced

[RRR3]

Today's game has a higher proportion of white guys and euros that just shoot threes, especially at SG, so Jordan would score easier today

Shooters like harden, curry and korver are less athletic than the studs Jordan faced
Studs like Oliver Miller and “Hot Plate” Williams? MJ’s era was so easy you could literally be obese and make the league. Never would happen today.

[FourthTenor]

Lebron =

https://i.redd.it/uyi9zg951c801.jpg



MJ =

https://cdnimg.webstaurantstore.com/images/products/large/238079/1198023.jpg



Bosh = https://i.imgur.com/KCjoDlp.gif'



That's all you need to know.

[8Ball]

Thread number 982 for 3ball fails again.

Any other Jordan Neanderthals wanna help?

[AirBonner]

Thread number 982 for 3ball fails again.

Any other Jordan Neanderthals wanna help?

3ball has yet to address the above kblaze posts. Spam his threads till he does

[3ball]

3ball has yet to address the above kblaze posts. Spam his threads till he does

I addressed it - previous eras had a higher proportion of african-americans, because today's league has a higher proportion of non-african-american, euros/international whites and otherwise white players that only need to shoot due to today's 3-pt league.

Otoh, shooting guards in previous eras didn't shoot threes, so they used bruising, physical force to be good players. Otoh, today's shooters like Curry, Klay, Harden or Van Fleet rely less on force, and more on shooting threes, so mj would be playing against a bunch of Reggie Miller's, thereby dominating without getting beaten down/physically-tired

Today's game is ****ing soft, with rules in place to eliminate impeding, physical contact, and hard fouls

[Gray GOAT]

previous eras had a higher proportion of african-americans, because today's league has a higher proportion of non-african-americans


https://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads9/5fdbf7cfdcf08/5fdbf7cfd9746-Screenshot_2020-12-18_at_01.28.49.png

[3ball]

https://img.ifunny.co/images/2a72270a74e3b221dc6e30efe7e85ce65e71b55b440ab68f69 94ff1795dcdee9_1.jpg

Yeah, I said it right:

previous eras had a higher proportion of african-americans, because today's league has a higher proportion of non-african-americans, aka euros/international whites and otherwise white players that only need to shoot due to today's 3-pt league.

Otoh, shooting guards in previous eras didn't shoot threes, so they used bruising, physical force to be good players

today's shooters like Curry, Klay, Harden or Van Fleet rely less on force, and more on shooting threes, so mj would be playing against a bunch of Reggie Miller's, thereby dominating without getting beaten down/physically-tired

Today's game is ****ing soft, with rules in place to eliminate impeding, physical contact, and hard fouls

[SATAN]

https://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/316/643/d02.gif

[RRR3]

Studs like Oliver Miller and “Hot Plate” Williams? MJ’s era was so easy you could literally be obese and make the league. Never would happen today.
3ball?

[3ball]

3ball?

Jokic is pretty fat

And today's typical off-guard is a Danny Green type - non-physical shooter

Today's 3-point format doesn't require the tough, bruising SG's like the standard of prior eras

[AirBonner]

Jokic is pretty fat

And today's typical off-guard is a Danny Green type - non-physical shooter

Today's 3-point format doesn't require the tough, bruising SG's like the standard of prior eras
And your modern day MJ got destroyed by him

[SATAN]

lol@Comparing Jokic to Oliver Miller

[3ball]

And your modern day MJ got destroyed by him

AD was the MVP vs Denver (the real Finals)

[3ball]

AD was the MVP vs Denver (the real Finals)

No one

Pippen was never mvp of any series

The stats say he's borderline top 100

[TheGoatest]

The only reason Bosh had all those all-star appearances is because he was listed as a C on the ballot during the years where Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Jamaal Magloire and Roy Hibbert made the all-star game as a C.

[red1]

pippen led the bulls to 55 wins without baldan


baldan never won 50 games without pippen



no pip. no chip.

[Round Mound]

Lebron never won without a sidekick that had higher career BPM, PER, VORP and WS/48 then Pippen

He literally never won without a sidekick that was way better than pippen

Ultimately, everyone in history had a teammate outscore them for a playoff run - so everyone needed a "Jordan" teammate that could outscore them, while only Jordan needed just a "pippen", who scored far less in every series

Pippen when Jordan left:

Player Efficiency Rating

1990-91 NBA 20.6 (20th)
1991-92 NBA 21.5 (13th)
1993-94 NBA 23.2 (4th)
1994-95 NBA 22.6 (7th)
1995-96 NBA 21.0 (15th)
1996-97 NBA 21.3 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 20.4 (19th)

Win Shares

1990-91 NBA 11.2 (13th)
1991-92 NBA 12.7 (8th)
1993-94 NBA 11.2 (9th)
1994-95 NBA 11.8 (7th)
1995-96 NBA 12.3 (7th)
1996-97 NBA 13.1 (5th)
Career NBA 125.1 (41st)
Career 125.1 (45th)

Win Shares Per 48 Minutes

1990-91 NBA .179 (15th)
1991-92 NBA .192 (12th)
1993-94 NBA .194 (9th)
1994-95 NBA .188 (10th)
1995-96 NBA .209 (9th)
1996-97 NBA .203 (9th)
1997-98 NBA .193 (8th)

Value Over Replacement Player

1990-91 NBA 5.9 (10th)
1991-92 NBA 6.4 (5th)
1992-93 NBA 4.7 (9th)
1993-94 NBA 6.8 (5th)
1994-95 NBA 7.2 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 5.9 (7th)
1996-97 NBA 6.1 (8th)
1999-00 NBA 3.9 (19th)
Career NBA 63.2 (23rd)
Career 63.2 (24th)

Defensive Box Plus/Minus

1987-88 NBA 1.3 (19th)
1990-91 NBA 2.5 (7th)
1991-92 NBA 2.0 (12th)
1993-94 NBA 3.2 (5th)
1994-95 NBA 3.0 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 1.7 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 1.6 (19th)
2001-02 NBA 1.6 (14th)
2002-03 NBA 1.6 (19th)
Career NBA 1.8 (34th)
Career 1.8 (37th)

Offensive Box Plus/Minus

1990-91 NBA 3.2 (16th)
1991-92 NBA 4.1 (11th)
1993-94 NBA 4.5 (5th)
1994-95 NBA 4.4 (8th)
1995-96 NBA 4.6 (9th)
1996-97 NBA 4.3 (14th)
1997-98 NBA 3.3 (17th)
Career NBA 2.3 (89th)

Defensive Box Plus/Minus

1987-88 NBA 1.3 (19th)
1990-91 NBA 2.5 (7th)
1991-92 NBA 2.0 (12th)
1993-94 NBA 3.2 (5th)
1994-95 NBA 3.0 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 1.7 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 1.6 (19th)
2001-02 NBA 1.6 (14th)
2002-03 NBA 1.6 (19th)
Career NBA 1.8 (34th)
Career 1.8 (37th)

Box Plus/Minus

1990-91 NBA 5.8 (10th)
1991-92 NBA 6.1 (6th)
1992-93 NBA 4.0 (14th)
1993-94 NBA 7.7 (3rd)
1994-95 NBA 7.5 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 6.3 (8th)
1996-97 NBA 5.7 (9th)
1997-98 NBA 5.0 (8th)
1999-00 NBA 3.6 (20th)
Career NBA 4.1 (35th)

Defensive Rating

1987-88 NBA 103.5 (15th)
1990-91 NBA 101.7 (8th)
1991-92 NBA 102.2 (8th)
1993-94 NBA 96.9 (7th)
1994-95 NBA 98.3 (1st)
1995-96 NBA 100.7 (10th)
1997-98 NBA 98.8 (12th)
Career NBA 101.5 (67th)
Career 101.5 (81st)

BTW i think MJ is the best of all time... :rolleyes:

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen when Jordan left:

Player Efficiency Rating

1990-91 NBA 20.6 (20th)
1991-92 NBA 21.5 (13th)
1993-94 NBA 23.2 (4th)
1994-95 NBA 22.6 (7th)
1995-96 NBA 21.0 (15th)
1996-97 NBA 21.3 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 20.4 (19th)

Win Shares

1990-91 NBA 11.2 (13th)
1991-92 NBA 12.7 (8th)
1993-94 NBA 11.2 (9th)
1994-95 NBA 11.8 (7th)
1995-96 NBA 12.3 (7th)
1996-97 NBA 13.1 (5th)
Career NBA 125.1 (41st)
Career 125.1 (45th)

Win Shares Per 48 Minutes

1990-91 NBA .179 (15th)
1991-92 NBA .192 (12th)
1993-94 NBA .194 (9th)
1994-95 NBA .188 (10th)
1995-96 NBA .209 (9th)
1996-97 NBA .203 (9th)
1997-98 NBA .193 (8th)

Value Over Replacement Player

1990-91 NBA 5.9 (10th)
1991-92 NBA 6.4 (5th)
1992-93 NBA 4.7 (9th)
1993-94 NBA 6.8 (5th)
1994-95 NBA 7.2 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 5.9 (7th)
1996-97 NBA 6.1 (8th)
1999-00 NBA 3.9 (19th)
Career NBA 63.2 (23rd)
Career 63.2 (24th)

Defensive Box Plus/Minus

1987-88 NBA 1.3 (19th)
1990-91 NBA 2.5 (7th)
1991-92 NBA 2.0 (12th)
1993-94 NBA 3.2 (5th)
1994-95 NBA 3.0 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 1.7 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 1.6 (19th)
2001-02 NBA 1.6 (14th)
2002-03 NBA 1.6 (19th)
Career NBA 1.8 (34th)
Career 1.8 (37th)

Offensive Box Plus/Minus

1990-91 NBA 3.2 (16th)
1991-92 NBA 4.1 (11th)
1993-94 NBA 4.5 (5th)
1994-95 NBA 4.4 (8th)
1995-96 NBA 4.6 (9th)
1996-97 NBA 4.3 (14th)
1997-98 NBA 3.3 (17th)
Career NBA 2.3 (89th)

Defensive Box Plus/Minus

1987-88 NBA 1.3 (19th)
1990-91 NBA 2.5 (7th)
1991-92 NBA 2.0 (12th)
1993-94 NBA 3.2 (5th)
1994-95 NBA 3.0 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 1.7 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 1.6 (19th)
2001-02 NBA 1.6 (14th)
2002-03 NBA 1.6 (19th)
Career NBA 1.8 (34th)
Career 1.8 (37th)

Box Plus/Minus

1990-91 NBA 5.8 (10th)
1991-92 NBA 6.1 (6th)
1992-93 NBA 4.0 (14th)
1993-94 NBA 7.7 (3rd)
1994-95 NBA 7.5 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 6.3 (8th)
1996-97 NBA 5.7 (9th)
1997-98 NBA 5.0 (8th)
1999-00 NBA 3.6 (20th)
Career NBA 4.1 (35th)

Defensive Rating

1987-88 NBA 103.5 (15th)
1990-91 NBA 101.7 (8th)
1991-92 NBA 102.2 (8th)
1993-94 NBA 96.9 (7th)
1994-95 NBA 98.3 (1st)
1995-96 NBA 100.7 (10th)
1997-98 NBA 98.8 (12th)
Career NBA 101.5 (67th)
Career 101.5 (81st)

BTW i think MJ is the best of all time... :rolleyes:


https://media.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif

[Axe]

"Whoa whoa stop sucking please sweetheart, I'm about to spam post about why Jordan was better than LeBron. Take it out of your mouth darlin'."
Op?

[Nashty]

Just another case that proves NBA is racist against white people. Not only that Gasol was better than Bosh, but he was better than Kobe too.

Gasol in playoffs before Kobe = 22.9 PER, 4.4 BPM
Kobe between Shaq and Gasol = 21.6 PER, 3.9 BPM
Bosh before James = 20.4 PER, 2.2 BPM

[BurningHammer]

Bosh got a lot Canadian votes when they all came from audiences. Kinda like Yao.

[TheGoatest]

pippen led the bulls to 55 wins without baldan


baldan never won 50 games without pippen



no pip. no chip.

Well, technically he didn't win 41 games without Pippen/crack the .500 barrier. :roll:

[Manny98]

No one

Pippen was never mvp of any series

The stats say he's borderline top 100
The stats also say that Lebron is minimum top 3 all time yet you have him outside of your top 10

You're literally a walking contradiction at this point