coastalmarker99
12-18-2020, 08:36 PM
Thread examining the Wilt-West-Baylor Lakers.
A main question: Did The Lakers underperform?
Short answer: No.
4 of 5 yrs, they won West Conf & made Finals plus winning a ring in 1972.
The only year Lakers missed Finals, 1971, both Baylor & West missed entire playoffs with injuries.
Lakers, 1969-73:
10-4 PO series record
Lost in POs to:
Celtics dynasty
Kareem-Oscar Bucks (but also beat Bucks twice in POs)
Outstanding Knicks team (twice) (also beat Knicks once)
Context:
Many assume Wilt-West-Baylor played 5 yrs together.
In fact, they played ONE full year together, 1969!
In 1970, Wilt missed most of RS w/ knee injury. But he came back for POs.
W-W-B together for 2 POs:
Went to game 7 of Finals each yr
Is that really underperforming?
Wilt, West, and Baylor are all-time greats.
But when Wilt joined Lakers in 1968-69, their ages were:
34 Wilt
32 Baylor
30 West
This was in an era when 30 was old for NBA players.
West was still in his very long prime.
Wilt was also still very good.
But he scored a lot less w/ Lakers.
He averaged 14.5 P/G w/ Lakers, after averaging 40 P/G his first 7 yrs.
He was still a great rebounder and very good defender & passer.
But 1970 knee injury hurt mobility.
Baylor, however, was another story.
1959-63 (5 yrs):
Averaged 32.0, 16.7, 4.4
.195 WS/48
26.1 PER
But in 1963 & again in 1965, he hurt his knee.
1964-72 (9 yrs):
24.2, 11.4, 4.2
.112 WS/48
20.2 PER
From historic superstar level (1960-63) to *just* All-NBA level (1964-after).
In 1969 & 1970, Lakers really had Big 3 only
After 1968, they lost two quality guards:
Archie Clark
In 1968, he led team in MP & averaged 19.9.
He later averaged 25.2 w/ Bullets.
But was traded for Wilt
Gail Goodrich
Taken by Suns in expansion draft.
(Later returned to LA.)
Mel Counts, a lanky 7-footer, was a decent scorer & rebounder who played PF and back-up center.
The rest of the Laker team in 1969 & 1970 was trash.
1968-69
Lakers won 55.
But other teams were as good or better:
57 W Bullets
55 W 76ers
54 W Knicks
In SRS, which measures point differential and strength of schedule, Lakers were behind these three and also the Russell-Havlicek Celtics.
Lakers were 5th in SRS. Not dominant.
1969 Western Conference POs:
Lakers:
Beat Warriors, 4-2
Beat Hawks, 4-1
1969 Finals:
Lakers lost to Celtics 4-3.
Lakers lost game 7 by 2 at home. Wilt (7-8, 18 P, 27 R and 10 Blocks) left game & Coach Van Beda Kolff refused to put him back in.
FMVP West great: 38, 5, 7
Wilt & Baylor mediocre
For Celtics:
Havlicek awesome: 28, 11, 4
Jones good
Russell mediocre
1970 Lakers RS was injury-plagued:
Wilt missed 70 games
Baylor missed 28
West was MVP-level and led NBA in P/G
46-26, 2nd place in Western Conf
POs:
Lakers beat Suns, 4-3
Hawks had best West record and homecourt. But Lakers swept Hawks 4-0.
1970 Finals:
Lakers lost to Knicks 4-3.
This Knicks team is over publicized. But still a truly great team.
Best record in NBA. Won 19 straight (a then-record).
Best SRS by far that yr & 22nd best SRS ever!
Reed won MVP and Frazier was just as valuable.
Excellent supporting cast
1970s Finals: Lakers vs. Knicks
First 4 games (2-2):
Reed scored well but didn't outplay Wilt overall:
WR: 32, 15, 4, .505 TS
WC: 25, 19, 5, .524 TS
1970 Finals:
Reed severely injured his knee in game 4.
After game 4, Reed managed only 11 P, 3 R, 2 A in 35 MP.
Wilt dominated him & ended up w/ 106 more rebounds in the series.
But Reed's gritty performance was inspiring.
Game 7:
Frazier had 36, 7, 19 & Knicks win easily.
1971 Laker RS:
Baylor's career was basically over.
He played only 2 games in 1971 & 9 in 1972.
W/o Baylor, Lakers won only 48, tied for 3rd in Western Conf.
Lakers did add two quality players: PF Happy Hairston and SG Gail Goodrich.
But West was injured late and missed POs.
1971 POs:
W/o West & Baylor, Lakers beat 51-W Bulls team, 4-3, winning game 7 in Chicago.
Lakers then played the Bucks, one of best team ever.
Buck were 66-16 with the highest SRS in history!
Kareem was MVP and led NBA in scoring.
Kareem had Oscar & a good supporting cast.
1971 POs: Lakers vs. Bucks
Old Man Wilt played well against Young Kareem:
WC: 49%, 22.0, 18.8, 2.0
KAJ: 48%, 25.0, 17.2, 4.2
But without West & Baylor (injuries), Lakers were no match for one of the greatest teams ever.
Bucks, who ended up 12-2 in POs, beat Lakers 4-1.
1972 RS
Baylor officially retired in early November 1971.
Lakers then won 33 straight (still a record) and were 69-13, a record at the time.
Why did Lakers improve 21 games (48 W-69 W), 1971 to 1972?
Short answer: I don't know.
West & Wilt played about the same.
Lakers had new coach, Bill Sharman.
D improved 4.5P/100 poss
Goodrich improved: 17.5 to 25.2, and doubled WS & WS/48.
Hairston & McMillian a little better.
1972 POs:
Like in RS, Lakers were a juggernaut in POs:
12-3 in POs
81-16 RS +POs
First round: Lakers Swept a very good, 57-W Bulls team, 4-0.
1972 POs: Lakers vs. Bucks
1972 Lakers had 3rd highest SRS ever.
But 1972 Bucks had 5th highest ever!!
Bucks as good as in 1971 & Kareem better.
Weird series.
Laker scored 72 in game 1 & then 135 in game 2!
Bucks won 2 games by total of 47.
Lakers won 4 by 34, inc. by 1, 4 & 4.
1972 POs: Lakers vs. Bucks
This series was a reverse of the old Wilt-Russell series.
But this time, Wilt (in the Russell role) was on the winning team despite being outplayed by Kareem (in the old Wilt role).
WC: 10.8, 19.3, 3.3
KAJ: 33.7, 17.5, 4.8
Lakers beat Bucks, 4-2.
1972 Finals: Lakers vs. Knicks
Knicks won game 1 by 22: then Lakers won 4 straight.
Wilt was FMVP: 60%, 19, 23, 3
Goodrich had 25.6 on 47%
West shot horribly: 32.5%, but averaged 8.8 AST
For Knicks, Reed was injured. But replacement Lucas played well, as did Frazier & Bradley
1973 RS
1973 Lakers just a little worse than 1972.
60 W, which tied Bucks for best in West and 2nd best overall.
Lakers had best SRS in NBA.
1973 POs:
Lakers once again had to play a good 51-W Bulls team known for their tough D.
Lakers beat Bulls, 4-3.
Nate Thurmond and Warriors had upset Kareem's Bucks in first round.
Lakers easily beat Warriors, 4-1 (average point differential was 14.2 in series)
1973 Finals: Lakers vs. Knicks
A re-match of 1970 & 1972 Finals.
Knicks won, 4-1.
But series was closer: Knicks won games by 3, 4 & 4.
Wilt disappeared on offense, averaging only 8.4 FGA/G & 11.6 P/G.
West & Goodrich played okay.
But McMillian took 21 FGA/G and shot only .394
You often hear about 1969-73 Lakers (especially Wilt) "choking," able to "only" win one ring. 1969 and 1970 Finals losses have been discussed over and over.
In fact, Lakers lost only ONCE to a team w/ a lower SRS.
1969: Celtics had higher SRS.
1970: Knicks had MUCH higher SRS (22 best ever) and 14-win better record.
1971: Bucks had MUCH higher SRR (best ever) and 18-win better record.
1973: Knicks did have worse SRS & 3 fewer wins.
PO series that don't fit "choker" narrative:
1970 came back from 3 1 deficit against the Suns
1970: Swept Hawks even though Hawks had better record
1971: Lakers beat Bulls even though Bulls had better record
1972: Swept 57-win Bulls
1972: Beat Bucks (5th best SRS ever)
1973: Lost to Knicks, who had also beaten 68 W Celtics
A main question: Did The Lakers underperform?
Short answer: No.
4 of 5 yrs, they won West Conf & made Finals plus winning a ring in 1972.
The only year Lakers missed Finals, 1971, both Baylor & West missed entire playoffs with injuries.
Lakers, 1969-73:
10-4 PO series record
Lost in POs to:
Celtics dynasty
Kareem-Oscar Bucks (but also beat Bucks twice in POs)
Outstanding Knicks team (twice) (also beat Knicks once)
Context:
Many assume Wilt-West-Baylor played 5 yrs together.
In fact, they played ONE full year together, 1969!
In 1970, Wilt missed most of RS w/ knee injury. But he came back for POs.
W-W-B together for 2 POs:
Went to game 7 of Finals each yr
Is that really underperforming?
Wilt, West, and Baylor are all-time greats.
But when Wilt joined Lakers in 1968-69, their ages were:
34 Wilt
32 Baylor
30 West
This was in an era when 30 was old for NBA players.
West was still in his very long prime.
Wilt was also still very good.
But he scored a lot less w/ Lakers.
He averaged 14.5 P/G w/ Lakers, after averaging 40 P/G his first 7 yrs.
He was still a great rebounder and very good defender & passer.
But 1970 knee injury hurt mobility.
Baylor, however, was another story.
1959-63 (5 yrs):
Averaged 32.0, 16.7, 4.4
.195 WS/48
26.1 PER
But in 1963 & again in 1965, he hurt his knee.
1964-72 (9 yrs):
24.2, 11.4, 4.2
.112 WS/48
20.2 PER
From historic superstar level (1960-63) to *just* All-NBA level (1964-after).
In 1969 & 1970, Lakers really had Big 3 only
After 1968, they lost two quality guards:
Archie Clark
In 1968, he led team in MP & averaged 19.9.
He later averaged 25.2 w/ Bullets.
But was traded for Wilt
Gail Goodrich
Taken by Suns in expansion draft.
(Later returned to LA.)
Mel Counts, a lanky 7-footer, was a decent scorer & rebounder who played PF and back-up center.
The rest of the Laker team in 1969 & 1970 was trash.
1968-69
Lakers won 55.
But other teams were as good or better:
57 W Bullets
55 W 76ers
54 W Knicks
In SRS, which measures point differential and strength of schedule, Lakers were behind these three and also the Russell-Havlicek Celtics.
Lakers were 5th in SRS. Not dominant.
1969 Western Conference POs:
Lakers:
Beat Warriors, 4-2
Beat Hawks, 4-1
1969 Finals:
Lakers lost to Celtics 4-3.
Lakers lost game 7 by 2 at home. Wilt (7-8, 18 P, 27 R and 10 Blocks) left game & Coach Van Beda Kolff refused to put him back in.
FMVP West great: 38, 5, 7
Wilt & Baylor mediocre
For Celtics:
Havlicek awesome: 28, 11, 4
Jones good
Russell mediocre
1970 Lakers RS was injury-plagued:
Wilt missed 70 games
Baylor missed 28
West was MVP-level and led NBA in P/G
46-26, 2nd place in Western Conf
POs:
Lakers beat Suns, 4-3
Hawks had best West record and homecourt. But Lakers swept Hawks 4-0.
1970 Finals:
Lakers lost to Knicks 4-3.
This Knicks team is over publicized. But still a truly great team.
Best record in NBA. Won 19 straight (a then-record).
Best SRS by far that yr & 22nd best SRS ever!
Reed won MVP and Frazier was just as valuable.
Excellent supporting cast
1970s Finals: Lakers vs. Knicks
First 4 games (2-2):
Reed scored well but didn't outplay Wilt overall:
WR: 32, 15, 4, .505 TS
WC: 25, 19, 5, .524 TS
1970 Finals:
Reed severely injured his knee in game 4.
After game 4, Reed managed only 11 P, 3 R, 2 A in 35 MP.
Wilt dominated him & ended up w/ 106 more rebounds in the series.
But Reed's gritty performance was inspiring.
Game 7:
Frazier had 36, 7, 19 & Knicks win easily.
1971 Laker RS:
Baylor's career was basically over.
He played only 2 games in 1971 & 9 in 1972.
W/o Baylor, Lakers won only 48, tied for 3rd in Western Conf.
Lakers did add two quality players: PF Happy Hairston and SG Gail Goodrich.
But West was injured late and missed POs.
1971 POs:
W/o West & Baylor, Lakers beat 51-W Bulls team, 4-3, winning game 7 in Chicago.
Lakers then played the Bucks, one of best team ever.
Buck were 66-16 with the highest SRS in history!
Kareem was MVP and led NBA in scoring.
Kareem had Oscar & a good supporting cast.
1971 POs: Lakers vs. Bucks
Old Man Wilt played well against Young Kareem:
WC: 49%, 22.0, 18.8, 2.0
KAJ: 48%, 25.0, 17.2, 4.2
But without West & Baylor (injuries), Lakers were no match for one of the greatest teams ever.
Bucks, who ended up 12-2 in POs, beat Lakers 4-1.
1972 RS
Baylor officially retired in early November 1971.
Lakers then won 33 straight (still a record) and were 69-13, a record at the time.
Why did Lakers improve 21 games (48 W-69 W), 1971 to 1972?
Short answer: I don't know.
West & Wilt played about the same.
Lakers had new coach, Bill Sharman.
D improved 4.5P/100 poss
Goodrich improved: 17.5 to 25.2, and doubled WS & WS/48.
Hairston & McMillian a little better.
1972 POs:
Like in RS, Lakers were a juggernaut in POs:
12-3 in POs
81-16 RS +POs
First round: Lakers Swept a very good, 57-W Bulls team, 4-0.
1972 POs: Lakers vs. Bucks
1972 Lakers had 3rd highest SRS ever.
But 1972 Bucks had 5th highest ever!!
Bucks as good as in 1971 & Kareem better.
Weird series.
Laker scored 72 in game 1 & then 135 in game 2!
Bucks won 2 games by total of 47.
Lakers won 4 by 34, inc. by 1, 4 & 4.
1972 POs: Lakers vs. Bucks
This series was a reverse of the old Wilt-Russell series.
But this time, Wilt (in the Russell role) was on the winning team despite being outplayed by Kareem (in the old Wilt role).
WC: 10.8, 19.3, 3.3
KAJ: 33.7, 17.5, 4.8
Lakers beat Bucks, 4-2.
1972 Finals: Lakers vs. Knicks
Knicks won game 1 by 22: then Lakers won 4 straight.
Wilt was FMVP: 60%, 19, 23, 3
Goodrich had 25.6 on 47%
West shot horribly: 32.5%, but averaged 8.8 AST
For Knicks, Reed was injured. But replacement Lucas played well, as did Frazier & Bradley
1973 RS
1973 Lakers just a little worse than 1972.
60 W, which tied Bucks for best in West and 2nd best overall.
Lakers had best SRS in NBA.
1973 POs:
Lakers once again had to play a good 51-W Bulls team known for their tough D.
Lakers beat Bulls, 4-3.
Nate Thurmond and Warriors had upset Kareem's Bucks in first round.
Lakers easily beat Warriors, 4-1 (average point differential was 14.2 in series)
1973 Finals: Lakers vs. Knicks
A re-match of 1970 & 1972 Finals.
Knicks won, 4-1.
But series was closer: Knicks won games by 3, 4 & 4.
Wilt disappeared on offense, averaging only 8.4 FGA/G & 11.6 P/G.
West & Goodrich played okay.
But McMillian took 21 FGA/G and shot only .394
You often hear about 1969-73 Lakers (especially Wilt) "choking," able to "only" win one ring. 1969 and 1970 Finals losses have been discussed over and over.
In fact, Lakers lost only ONCE to a team w/ a lower SRS.
1969: Celtics had higher SRS.
1970: Knicks had MUCH higher SRS (22 best ever) and 14-win better record.
1971: Bucks had MUCH higher SRR (best ever) and 18-win better record.
1973: Knicks did have worse SRS & 3 fewer wins.
PO series that don't fit "choker" narrative:
1970 came back from 3 1 deficit against the Suns
1970: Swept Hawks even though Hawks had better record
1971: Lakers beat Bulls even though Bulls had better record
1972: Swept 57-win Bulls
1972: Beat Bucks (5th best SRS ever)
1973: Lost to Knicks, who had also beaten 68 W Celtics