AD is BETTER than Giannis

[StrongLurk]

Giannis in the regular season is a monster and deserved his MVPs, but the playoffs are what matters for superstars. AD last year was more impressive than anything Giannis could do. And it's not like AD just became good, he's been a superstar since 2015 when he had a 30.8 PER/8.9 BPM for the season. Playing with Lebron wouldn't help Giannis' broke jumper and inability to produce in the clutch in the playoffs.

Meanwhile, AD is just as good as Giannis on defense, but on offense can actually play from the perimeter. AD in the bubble basically had a Dirk level jumpshot for most of the games and was the second best player in the playoffs behind LBJ.

I don't see how Giannis can be ranked ahead of AD. In fact, Giannis probably isn't a top 5 player come playoff time (Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, AD, Curry).

[Xiao Yao You]

AD had a hard time leading his teams to the playoffs before hopping on Lebron's coattails. Giannis anyday

[tpols]

pretty obvious... the main difference being AD is an incredible shooter, and has a lot of effective basketball moves. (skill) If you think what AD did in the playoffs this year was special, you'd have to be even more impressed at how good he was on the Pelicans ~ 31/12 with twice the blocks ...even better.

[SATAN]

LeBron James is the best player of all time and AD's life has significantly changed for the better due his positive influence and guidance. The best is yet to come.

That being said, OP is over reacting over a pre-season game.

[SATAN]

pretty obvious... the main difference being AD is an incredible shooter, and has a lot of effective basketball moves. (skill) If you think what AD did in the playoffs this year was special, you'd have to be even more impressed at how good he was on the Pelicans ~ 31/12 with twice the blocks ...even better.

He wouldn't get the Bucks into the finals either.

[Doranku]

AD had a hard time leading his teams to the playoffs before hopping on Lebron's coattails. Giannis anyday

AD swept the 3rd seeded Blazers in 2018 which is more impressive than anything Giannis has done in the playoffs. Giannis has 3 playoff wins.. the 49 win Kyrie sabotaged Celtics, the 41-41 Pistons, and the 33-40 Magic. :oldlol: Throw Giannis in the West and he has zero playoff series wins.

[Xiao Yao You]

AD swept the 3rd seeded Blazers in 2018 which is more impressive than anything Giannis has done in the playoffs. Giannis has 3 playoff wins.. the 49 win Kyrie sabotaged Celtics, the 41-41 Pistons, and the 33-40 Magic. :oldlol: Throw Giannis in the West and he has zero playoff series wins.

got to get to the playoffs first. Davis has collected a lot of ping pong balls

[8Ball]

Giannis excels at running and dunking, which opens the game up considerably for his team and leads to more regular season wins.

AD is a more complete player with no flaws in his game and may be more valuable in the playoffs.

[StrongLurk]

AD had a hard time leading his teams to the playoffs before hopping on Lebron's coattails. Giannis anyday

AD's teams were trash and he was playing out West. He also had injuries a few years.

Giannis hasn't done ANYTHING very noteworthy in the East since 2015.

Seriously, AD>Giannis right now.

Everyone simply deflects to "he plays with Lebron" but I already covered that in my OP.

AD playoffs career: 29/11/3, 63.3 TS%, 7.4 BPM
Giannis playoffs career: 24/11/5, 57.3 TS%, 7BPM

AD is a generational talent that was stuck on a bad team out West and also had some injury prone seasons. He gets on a good team ONE YEAR...and wins a chip as the second best player in the ENTIRE playoffs.

[Xiao Yao You]

AD's teams were trash and he was playing out West. He also had injuries a few years.

Giannis hasn't done ANYTHING very noteworthy in the East since 2015.

Seriously, AD>Giannis right now.

Everyone simply deflects to "he plays with Lebron" but I already covered that in my OP.

A lot of excuses for someone that is supposed to be so good

[StrongLurk]

A lot of excuses for someone that is supposed to be so good

When did facts turn into "excuses"?

AD playoffs career: 29/11/3, 63.3 TS%, 7.4 BPM
Giannis playoffs career: 24/11/5, 57.3 TS%, 7BPM

[StrongLurk]

Guys, it's not like I'm comparing Pippen to Lebron and saying Pippen is better because 6 rings > 4 rings.

We are comparing two superstars in the NBA at similar ages. Giannis lacks an elite halfcourt playoff skillset while AD HAS one.

AD has literally never had a bad playoff series yet.

[ralph_i_el]

AD plays a role, and he's one of the best of all time at it.

Giannis plays a superhero

Of course Giannis is doing more, but I is it more effective for winning games? I don't think so. I feel like it is easier to get the best of your other players if they are playing around AD.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Durant,Kawhi,AD,Butler, and LeBron are better,Giannis has never been the best player he has too many weaknesses,at least LeBron could hit the 3 ball.

Giannis can't hit jack shit his go to move is driving to the basket and he isn't even better than LeBron at that either.I could also say Steph is a better player too offensively speaking,Giannis just better on defense.

[Stephonit]

The bigger they are the harder they fall.

Those saying AD is better than Giannis better have picked the Lakers as the prohibitive favorites last year over the Clippers or else this current take is lame.

There should be no question Steph is better than both. Curry faced one of these guys and the result was 4-0 to Curry.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Those saying AD is better than Giannis better have picked the Lakers as the prohibitive favorites last year over the Clippers or else this current take is lame
What does this have to do with AD being more skilled than Giannis?

[Stephonit]

What does this have to do with AD being more skilled than Giannis?

It's a question on how anyone could have possibly thought the Clippers were better if you held this belief. By the way I do not object to the claim AD>Giannis. I'm just mystified how some people come to other conclusions on related matters.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

It's a question on how anyone could have possibly thought the Clippers were better if you held this belief. By the way I do not object to the claim AD>Giannis. I'm just mystified how some people come to other conclusions on related matters.
Initially I had Clippers winning it all but Kawhi and PG pulled a 2011 LeBron in game 7 against the Nuggets.I still had AD over Giannis.

[Kblaze8855]

I don't see how Giannis can be ranked ahead of AD. In fact, Giannis probably isn't a top 5 player come playoff time (Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, AD, Curry).


4 of those people played with someone else on the list.

Put Giannis on a team with any of them.

How do you think the success argument would look?

How do you think that “wall” defense would work with Steph Curry on the floor instead of Bledsoe?

[Stephonit]

4 of those people played with someone else on the list.

Put Giannis on a team with any of them.

How do you think the success argument would look?

Curry, James and Leonard won a championship and Durant made a finals without the others. The argument would still stand.

[Kblaze8855]

I feel like many of you would take offense to hearing about the 4-5 stars who had to be injured to allow some of those to happen....nor would a Westbrook/Harden or Wade/Bosh Kyrie/Love vs Middleton/Lopez argument be worth having. Suffice it to say....there’s a reason so many of the goats played together....and it’s not by chance so many start to look like winners when they do.

There’s a short list of people I’ll give individual credit for their teams success and none of them are in this topic. Teams don’t win that way anymore. And when they do it takes baffling strings of injury.

Its barely worth talking about in the super team era. You can just text a guy and make victory assured if you want it bad enough.

Clearly...AD and Lebron recently did.

[Stephonit]

I feel like many of you would take offense to hearing about the 4-5 stars who had to be injured to allow some of those to happen....nor would a Westbrook/Harden or Wade/Bosh Kyrie/Love vs Middleton/Lopez argument be worth having. Suffice it to say....there’s a reason so many of the goats played together....and it’s not by chance so many start to look like winners when they do.

There’s a short list of people I’ll give individual credit for their teams success and none of them are in this topic. Teams don’t win that way anymore. And when they do it takes baffling strings of injury.

Its barely worth talking about in the super team era. You can just text a guy and make victory assured if you want it bad enough.

Clearly...AD and Lebron recently did.

I'm sympathetic to the argument you seem to be making between the lines but in relation to Giannis he still needs to prove more in comparison to what these guys did when they weren't on superteams. What is Giannis's most impressive playoffs victory? Is it more impressive than what the others have accomplished as the leading star on their respective teams? I don't think so. The Bucks losing to the Heat last year in what must be considered an upset also doesn't help Giannis's case although the Heat performance going to 6 games in the finals against the stacked Lakers takes some of the sting away.

Upon reconsideration taking your implied argument into account I could take Giannis over AD but I still think Giannisl doesn't have an argument over the others.

[Charlie Sheen]

AD plays a role, and he's one of the best of all time at it.

Giannis plays a superhero

Of course Giannis is doing more, but I is it more effective for winning games? I don't think so. I feel like it is easier to get the best of your other players if they are playing around AD.

We're going to find out a lot more about AD this year I expect. Schroeder and Gasol are better complements to Davis with when Lebron sits than Dwight and Rondo were.

[Bronbron23]

His game is definitely better suited for the post season than Greeks. I'd argue greeks game is better for getting there though.

And AD has the obvious benefit of having bron. Throw greek and bron together and they'd win chips too.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

If LeBron were to shrink in the 4th quarter and became passive you think Giannis would be that go to guy?

[fsvr54]

We need to talk about Zion murdering the Bucks yesterday.

To me, Giannis is unequivocally the most overrated NBA player OF ALL TIME.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

To me, Giannis is unequivocally the most overrated NBA player OF ALL TIME.

Idk about that but he did get shut down by Team Brazil in the olympics and Kawhi's Raptors in the 2019 playoffs.

[bizil]

AD, Giannis, and KG are IN THEIR OWN CLASS of players. They are POSITIONLESS types of 7 footers on both sides of the court. In terms of scoring, passing, rebounding, and defense, they are as complete as any PF's to ever play. KG is the godfather of it all. And AD and Giannis SCORING WISE stepped it up a notch.

Skill for skill, AD is the most complete PF to ever play. He LITERALLY has no weaknesses in his game. KG isn't far off. BUT AD's three ball stroke gives him the edge. Giannis is the most physically dominant PF to ever play. But his overall skill level scoring the rock is his Achilles heel. And to be honest, I think AD could ACTUALLY play in a point power forward capacity like Giannis if he needed to. So for me, I'll take AD slightly over Giannis. But frankly you could go either way.

[BigKAT]

Giannis is back-to-back MVP.
DPOY.

Took his teams to back-to-back 1st seeds overall.

I know it's all in the East.

But Davis only went to the playoffs TWICE in his career before Lebron.

He won ONE series against a Blazers Team that with all due respect has no business being any seed higher than 5 on any given year. (I don't care what people say. These Blazers have not defeated a single Contender in all of their run. They never got past a Houston/Durant OKC/Warriors/Healthy Clippers team, they only beat dysfunctional messes and Jokic and Murray on their first run, barely.)

So yeah.

I'm taking Giannis first.

AD can shoot. I'll give him that. But without Lebron James he would not be in the playoffs this year.
Giannis took freaking Khris Middleton and Eric Bledsoe to the Conference finals last year.

[Axe]

The bigger they are the harder they fall.

Those saying AD is better than Giannis better have picked the Lakers as the prohibitive favorites last year over the Clippers or else this current take is lame.

There should be no question Steph is better than both. Curry faced one of these guys and the result was 4-0 to Curry.
At least ad and giannis has had iconic playoff moments already in their career and aren't shackled to one player for the sake of going to the playoffs each time so what's your point?

[Jasper]

OK AD has a ring ...
Giannis has two back to back MVP's as well a defensive player of the year in the same season.

How far has AD gone without Bron in the playoff's .. ah am I thinking right a first round exit.

Giannis has been in a conference finals.

AD has a jumper , but does not excel going to the rake like Giannis.
Giannis can go to the rake but doesn't excel with a jumper.

AD wins because of the ring ... that is all I see in the difference (attribute that ring as a Lebron ring)
/

[SlickRick]

AD swept the 3rd seeded Blazers in 2018 which is more impressive than anything Giannis has done in the playoffs. Giannis has 3 playoff wins.. the 49 win Kyrie sabotaged Celtics, the 41-41 Pistons, and the 33-40 Magic. :oldlol: Throw Giannis in the West and he has zero playoff series wins.

To be fair, Giannis on most teams in the West would have had better teammates than what the Bucks have been able to muster up these past few years. Eric Bledsoe and Brook Lopez :facepalm

[tanibanana]

Things are easier to do when you have better guys around you. Something Giannis envies to almost everybody; AD got Bron, Harden got Westbrook, Kawhi got George, Jokic got Murray, Tatum got Brown, and so on.

[StrongLurk]

OK AD has a ring ...
Giannis has two back to back MVP's as well a defensive player of the year in the same season.

How far has AD gone without Bron in the playoff's .. ah am I thinking right a first round exit.

Giannis has been in a conference finals.

AD has a jumper , but does not excel going to the rake like Giannis.
Giannis can go to the rake but doesn't excel with a jumper.

AD wins because of the ring ... that is all I see in the difference (attribute that ring as a Lebron ring)
/

First part of your post, I already addressed. For superstars, the playoffs are more important and AD is clearly better than Giannis in the playoffs.

Put Giannis on the Pelicans teams that AD had out West and Giannis would do even worse than AD.

AD last year had one of the best big man playoff runs of all time. 28/10/3.5 with elite defense. 29.6 PER, 66.5 TS%, .284 Win Shares per48 (led playoffs), 8.7 BPM, 130 Offensive Rating.

The bolded numbers literally compare with the BEST playoff runs that guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, ever had.

If you want to just ignore that by saying he played with Lebron, then I guess we have to cancel all of Shaq's, Kareem's, and Bill Russell's playoff runs as well.

Also, AD before Lebron averaged 31/13/2 in the playoffs. AD is already an established superstar BEFORE playing with an OLD Lebron.

Giannis has been incredible in the regular season the last two years, but he played far below his average against Kawhi's Raptors and Jimmy Butler's Heat. AD has never had playoff series as bad as those.

[Kblaze8855]

He won 4 playoff games in 7 years before joining the Lakers. And in those 4 games Jrue Holiday put up 28/7 on 57% shooting while absolutely putting the clamps on Dame who shot 35%. Dame recently went on the JJ Redick podcast and called Jrue the best man to man defender in the nba largely based on shutting him down those playoffs. His performance on Lillard and crazy production on offense is at least as responsible for that Blazers win which is the only one of ADs career. Davis scored 3 more points while Jrue turned Dame Time into DJ Augustin. I’d say both deserve equal credit.


Not that it makes the point either way on an issue of him or Giannis it’s just funny how the standards shift and what gets emphasized when a point needs making.

Don’t mind me.

I think I’m just tired of reading these same “____ isn’t a playoff performer and let me tell you why it’s different than the 15 times we said that before ____ turned out to be when in the right situation” posts. I was juuuuuuuat deleting topics full of mother robins putting worms in the mouths of their chicks saying AD was a birdfed beta like Klay then he’s on the Lakers with Lebron and better than Kareem....

This endless cycle of guys of every type and skill set just not being playoff performers....till suddenly they are when teammates with other stars? It’s tiring.

Heard this shit about everyone from Shaq to Dirk to Kg, Lebron, KD, and so on....


Always with a “Let me tell you why it’s different....these are valid criticisms” sidebar. Some get closer than others but I assure you...losing in the finals still gets you shit on as an mvp.

Everyone sucks...doesn’t come through when it counts...then they are either on a super team or luck out and face an injury decimated team and suddenly they are winners. That just seems to be what this era is and the guys not down with it or not lucky enough to land on squads with other elites are gonna be hated on for life while the same fans laugh at the guys taking the easy road.

Like Giannis couldn’t have forced a trade for Wiseman, Wiggins(salary), 2 more picks and whatever else to play on the Warriors like Hardens about to do with the Nets. Spend a few years with Steph drawing doubles, Klay dragging his man 30 feet the other way, and see how those walls form up then as he cruises to 28/14 on 63% shooting suddenly a playoff winner.

Its easy. It’s initially disrespected...but in the end...it makes the people who don’t do it look like losers. And the fans are the only ones to blame. So many genuinely don’t seem to see what they are doing.

[8Ball]

I agree K Blaze.

Imagine Giannis had a Dwyane Wade, Kobe, Pippen, AD, Steph Curry, Klay Thomson, Bradley Beal to play with.

He's wiping the floor of that Heat team.


Giannis has some flaws, free throw shooting, long 2s, and 3 point shooting, passing. But he absolutely excels at everything else at a 10/10 level. He needs another star to complement his other skill sets.

[StrongLurk]

He won 4 playoff games in 7 years before joining the Lakers. And in those 4 games Jrue Holiday put up 28/7 on 57% shooting while absolutely putting the clamps on Dame who shot 35%. Dame recently went on the JJ Redick podcast and called Jrue the best man to man defender in the nba largely based on shutting him down those playoffs. His performance on Lillard and crazy production on offense is at least as responsible for that Blazers win which is the only one of ADs career. Davis scored 3 more points while Jrue turned Dame Time into DJ Augustin. I’d say both deserve equal credit.


Not that it makes the point either way on an issue of him or Giannis it’s just funny how the standards shift and what gets emphasized when a point needs making.

Don’t mind me.

I think I’m just tired of reading these same “____ isn’t a playoff performer and let me tell you why it’s different than the 15 times we said that before ____ turned out to be when in the right situation” posts. I was juuuuuuuat deleting topics full of mother robins putting worms in the mouths of their chicks saying AD was a birdfed beta like Klay then he’s on the Lakers with Lebron and better than Kareem....

This endless cycle of guys of every type and skill set just not being playoff performers....till suddenly they are when teammates with other stars? It’s tiring.

Heard this shit about everyone from Shaq to Dirk to Kg, Lebron, KD, and so on....


Always with a “Let me tell you why it’s different....these are valid criticisms” sidebar. Some get closer than others but I assure you...losing in the finals still gets you shit on as an mvp.

Everyone sucks...doesn’t come through when it counts...then they are either on a super team or luck out and face an injury decimated team and suddenly they are winners. That just seems to be what this era is and the guys not down with it or not lucky enough to land on squads with other elites are gonna be hated on for life while the same fans laugh at the guys taking the easy road.

Like Giannis couldn’t have forced a trade for Wiseman, Wiggins(salary), 2 more picks and whatever else to play on the Warriors like Hardens about to do with the Nets. Spend a few years with Steph drawing doubles, Klay dragging his man 30 feet the other way, and see how those walls form up then as he cruises to 28/14 on 63% shooting suddenly a playoff winner.

Its easy. It’s initially disrespected...but in the end...it makes the people who don’t do it look like losers. And the fans are the only ones to blame. So many genuinely don’t seem to see what they are doing.

None of this references what I have been saying in my posts. I haven't talked about winning/losing, but simply production and eye test. Everyone choosing Giannis over AD is simply defaulting to wins/losses while AD was on the Pelicans to discredit AD, which in basketball discussion basically means you are arguing the lowest IQ level argument you can do.

It's not like AD was simply a 20/10, Jermaine O'Neal level player who lucked out by joining up with a stacked team. AD was literally the second best player in the entire playoffs last year, easily the 1b to Lebron's 1a.

AD had been a superstar for FOUR YEARS before joining up with Lebron/Lakers. The EYE TEST clearly shows that AD can equal or exceed Giannis' production in the playoffs, ALL THE WHILE having more offensive versatility and the same defensive impact. Lebron himself says AD is the best teammate he's ever played with as well.

AD has never had playoff series as bad as Giannis vs the 19 Raps and the 20 Heat.

[Kblaze8855]

All of which would mean absolutely nothing Playing his career on a bad franchise. The ish top 10 from 2019 had literally one person put him in the top 10. People were arguing he wasn’t a top 5 big for years.

People aren’t evaluating basketball and almost never do. They manufacture their argument from recent events that let them live off “Well what happened when....” instead of any real substance.

AD might be better than Giannis. He might not. It isn’t an outrageous opinion to have.

What is stupid....is a lot less people would have it if he played for the Hornets. That’s just the world we have though.

[red1]

AD is the second best player in the league after lebron


after seeing kd in preseason I have to rank AD third now :oldlol:


giannis is top 5.


1. lebron
2. kd
3. AD
4. kawhi
5. giannis

[ball247]

Per 36 numbers in playoffs in the last two playoff series for each player
Apparently one guy is a playoff dud and one is not. One couldn’t even lead his own team to the playoffs a couple years
Giannis
27/13/5 57% TS
31/16/6 61% TS

Davis
27/12/1 58% TS
27/10/3 67% TS

Also Davis’s shooting is so overrated after looking at the splits and shot chart. Lebron is so good at fooling casuals into thinking Kyrie and AD are better than what they are.

[Stephonit]

He won 4 playoff games in 7 years before joining the Lakers.


AD has never had playoff series as bad as Giannis vs the 19 Raps and the 20 Heat.


Can we get some basic facts straight first? Davis's Pelicans took a game off the 2018 Warriors. Davis's Pelicans were swept by the 2015 Warriors.

[8Ball]

Per 36 numbers in playoffs in the last two playoff series for each player
Apparently one guy is a playoff dud and one is not. One couldn’t even lead his own team to the playoffs a couple years
Giannis
27/13/5 57% TS
31/16/6 61% TS

Davis
27/12/1 58% TS
27/10/3 67% TS

Also Davis’s shooting is so overrated after looking at the splits and shot chart. Lebron is so good at fooling casuals into thinking Kyrie and AD are better than what they are.

I disagree. I watched a bunch of Laker games last year and around 25-40% of the games AD was the better player on the team via eye test.

I never felt that way with Kyrie. Once a month Kyrie would be a better player on the court.

AD just fits perfectly around LeBron and allows AD to maximize his potential. But AD has top 5 player talent in the league.

[Baller789]

I disagree. I watched a bunch of Laker games last year and around 25-40% of the games AD was the better player on the team via eye test.

I never felt that way with Kyrie. Once a month Kyrie would be a better player on the court.

AD just fits perfectly around LeBron and allows AD to maximize his potential. But AD has top 5 player talent in the league.

You watched?

[RRR3]

He won 4 playoff games in 7 years before joining the Lakers. And in those 4 games Jrue Holiday put up 28/7 on 57% shooting while absolutely putting the clamps on Dame who shot 35%. Dame recently went on the JJ Redick podcast and called Jrue the best man to man defender in the nba largely based on shutting him down those playoffs. His performance on Lillard and crazy production on offense is at least as responsible for that Blazers win which is the only one of ADs career. Davis scored 3 more points while Jrue turned Dame Time into DJ Augustin. I’d say both deserve equal credit.


Not that it makes the point either way on an issue of him or Giannis it’s just funny how the standards shift and what gets emphasized when a point needs making.

Don’t mind me.

I think I’m just tired of reading these same “____ isn’t a playoff performer and let me tell you why it’s different than the 15 times we said that before ____ turned out to be when in the right situation” posts. I was juuuuuuuat deleting topics full of mother robins putting worms in the mouths of their chicks saying AD was a birdfed beta like Klay then he’s on the Lakers with Lebron and better than Kareem....

This endless cycle of guys of every type and skill set just not being playoff performers....till suddenly they are when teammates with other stars? It’s tiring.

Heard this shit about everyone from Shaq to Dirk to Kg, Lebron, KD, and so on....


Always with a “Let me tell you why it’s different....these are valid criticisms” sidebar. Some get closer than others but I assure you...losing in the finals still gets you shit on as an mvp.

Everyone sucks...doesn’t come through when it counts...then they are either on a super team or luck out and face an injury decimated team and suddenly they are winners. That just seems to be what this era is and the guys not down with it or not lucky enough to land on squads with other elites are gonna be hated on for life while the same fans laugh at the guys taking the easy road.

Like Giannis couldn’t have forced a trade for Wiseman, Wiggins(salary), 2 more picks and whatever else to play on the Warriors like Hardens about to do with the Nets. Spend a few years with Steph drawing doubles, Klay dragging his man 30 feet the other way, and see how those walls form up then as he cruises to 28/14 on 63% shooting suddenly a playoff winner.

Its easy. It’s initially disrespected...but in the end...it makes the people who don’t do it look like losers. And the fans are the only ones to blame. So many genuinely don’t seem to see what they are doing.
This is all so true but will be lost on most of ISH

[Marchesk]

Remember when ISH said AD was an overrated stat padder?

Funny how things change.

[8Ball]

Remember when ISH said AD was an overrated stat padder?

Funny how things change.

Just the low IQ posters.

[StrongLurk]

Someone show me where AD had a playoff series as bad as Giannis vs 19 Raps and 20 Heat.

[ralph_i_el]

We're going to find out a lot more about AD this year I expect. Schroeder and Gasol are better complements to Davis with when Lebron sits than Dwight and Rondo were.

100% Schroeder is probably hyped at getting to run some PnR with AD.

[RRR3]

Just the low IQ posters.
That’s the vast majority of ISH...

[999Guy]

If Giannis played with peak Chris Paul or Curry he’d have an insane playoff run of seeing single coverage and getting easy finishes too.

Giannis is better. AD is in a much better position.

[SATAN]

AD more polished, Giannis more dominant is my take.

[plowking]

Giannis is considerably better and more influential. Hence why he is the MVP and DPOY.

AD doesn't just become a better player after one year of doing something. Giannis has been unequivocally a more consistent, durable and influential player for his team(s).

AD really has no case.

[StrongLurk]

Giannis is considerably better and more influential. Hence why he is the MVP and DPOY.

AD doesn't just become a better player after one year of doing something. Giannis has been unequivocally a more consistent, durable and influential player for his team(s).

AD really has no case.

AD was a superstar BEFORE Giannis ever was. AD was a superstar way back in 2015...he's always been at LEAST on the same level as Giannis. You think AD wasn't a top 7-8 player before last year? It's a joke to say Giannis is "considerably" better when AD was better BEFORE Giannis became noteworthy.

Literally everyone picking Giannis is IGNORING EVERYTHING AD did before joining the Lakers.

AD 2015-2019 regular season: 26.3/11.1/2.4/1.4/2.4 on 58.8 TS%, 28.5 PER, 6.9 BPM
AD in playoffs before Lakers: 30.5/12.7/1.8/1.8/2.5 on 59.3 TS%, 26.7 PER, 5.6 BPM

Those are easily ALL-TIME big man numbers. AD got on a good team for ONE YEAR, and won a chip on a DOMINANT ALL-TIME big man playoff run.

Giannis is the one who finally caught up to AD 2018 (3 years after AD was already a superstar). At this point, you have to include the eye test/factor in versatility and AD comes out on top.

Giannis has the biggest weakness you can have as a number 1 option in the NBA, and that is a complete lack of a jumpshot. AD is WAY better at shooting at all levels outside of the paint and from the free throw line.

[StrongLurk]

Someone show me where AD had a playoff series as bad as Giannis vs 19 Raps and 20 Heat.

Anyone? I'm still waiting.

[light]

Anyone? I'm still waiting.

Giannis vs the 20 Heat > AD in the 2nd round in 2015
Giannis vs 19 Raps > AD in the 3rd round in 2018

[StrongLurk]

Giannis vs the 20 Heat > AD in the 2nd round in 2015
Giannis vs 19 Raps > AD in the 3rd round in 2018

Ah I see, making up playoff rounds because AD's team lost and didn't go to the next round.

Well with that logic, AD>Giannis guaranteed since AD has won a chip and Giannis hasn't. You played yourself light.

[StrongLurk]

Cliff notes:

1. AD was a superstar three years before Giannis and has kept his superstar level (since 2014/15 season)
2. AD has never had a bad playoff series and only lost in the playoffs because his teams were worse (NOT because he was shut down like Giannis was in his playoff losses). See 19 Raps and 20 Heat series for Giannis for most recent evidence.
3. Giannis in the regular season the last two years has been better - this is not enough to put Giannis over AD since AD has also been elite in the regular season, but was better in the playoffs last year (and whole career) and did better against the '20 Heat (same team Giannis got "shut down" relative to his reg season level).
4. Eye test and documented scoring percentages show AD has more USEFUL (i.e playoff) versatility
5. Both are elite defensive players.

[light]

Ah I see, making up playoff rounds because AD's team lost and didn't go to the next round.

Well with that logic, AD>Giannis guaranteed since AD has won a chip and Giannis hasn't. You played yourself light.

LeBron won a chip.

AD still has no MVP and no Finals MVP. Giannis would have a chip too if he played with LeBron instead of AD.

[StrongLurk]

LeBron won a chip.

AD still has no MVP and no Finals MVP. Giannis would have a chip too if he played with LeBron instead of AD.

Hey, you are the one who brought up TEAM wins and losses with your first post. I didn't bring up TEAM wins and losses. I've brought up production and versatility with their skill sets (I.e appropriate individual comparisons).

Using YOUR LOGIC, AD is better than Giannis because he won the chip. See my cliff notes below.

Cliff notes:

1. AD was a superstar three years before Giannis and has kept his superstar level (since 2014/15 season)
2. AD has never had a bad playoff series and only lost in the playoffs because his teams were worse (NOT because he was shut down like Giannis was in his playoff losses). See 19 Raps and 20 Heat series for Giannis for most recent evidence.
3. Giannis in the regular season the last two years has been better - this is not enough to put Giannis over AD since AD has also been elite in the regular season, but was better in the playoffs last year (and whole career) and did better against the '20 Heat (same team Giannis got "shut down" relative to his reg season level).
4. Eye test and documented scoring percentages show AD has more USEFUL (i.e playoff) versatility
5. Both are elite defensive players.

AD last year had one of the best big man playoff runs of all time. 28/10/3.5 with elite defense. 29.6 PER, 66.5 TS%, .284 Win Shares per48 (led playoffs), 8.7 BPM, 130 Offensive Rating. These numbers can stand against ANY BIG MAN playoff run in the history of basketball. Giannis has not been able to play like this is ANY playoff run.

[SouBeachTalents]

AD may very well be better, and the disparity in their shooting abilities may be too great for a lot of people to pick Giannis in this comparison. But we still can't ignore the reality that one plays with LeBron James and the other doesn't, I'd really wanna see Giannis play with another top 5 player like AD has before making a determination

[plowking]

AD was a superstar BEFORE Giannis ever was. AD was a superstar way back in 2015...he's always been at LEAST on the same level as Giannis. You think AD wasn't a top 7-8 player before last year? It's a joke to say Giannis is "considerably" better when AD was better BEFORE Giannis became noteworthy.

Literally everyone picking Giannis is IGNORING EVERYTHING AD did before joining the Lakers.

AD 2015-2019 regular season: 26.3/11.1/2.4/1.4/2.4 on 58.8 TS%, 28.5 PER, 6.9 BPM
AD in playoffs before Lakers: 30.5/12.7/1.8/1.8/2.5 on 59.3 TS%, 26.7 PER, 5.6 BPM

Those are easily ALL-TIME big man numbers. AD got on a good team for ONE YEAR, and won a chip on a DOMINANT ALL-TIME big man playoff run.

Giannis is the one who finally caught up to AD 2018 (3 years after AD was already a superstar). At this point, you have to include the eye test/factor in versatility and AD comes out on top.

Giannis has the biggest weakness you can have as a number 1 option in the NBA, and that is a complete lack of a jumpshot. AD is WAY better at shooting at all levels outside of the paint and from the free throw line.

And the last 3 years, Giannis has been the better player. He overtook AD. They aren't stagnant monoliths that don't change and improve.

Giannis' team with the Bucks isn't anywhere near better than what Davis had in NO. In fact, he had Cousins and Jrue, and a bunch of other nice pieces. Yet couldn't ever get close to doing what Giannis has done lately.

[light]

Hey, you are the one who brought up TEAM wins and losses with your first post. I didn't bring up TEAM wins and losses. I've brought up production and versatility with their skill sets (I.e appropriate individual comparisons).

Using YOUR LOGIC, AD is better than Giannis because he won the chip. See my cliff notes below.

Cliff notes:

1. AD was a superstar three years before Giannis and has kept his superstar level (since 2014/15 season)
2. AD has never had a bad playoff series and only lost in the playoffs because his teams were worse (NOT because he was shut down like Giannis was in his playoff losses). See 19 Raps and 20 Heat series for Giannis for most recent evidence.
3. Giannis in the regular season the last two years has been better - this is not enough to put Giannis over AD since AD has also been elite in the regular season, but was better in the playoffs last year (and whole career) and did better against the '20 Heat (same team Giannis got "shut down" relative to his reg season level).
4. Eye test and documented scoring percentages show AD has more USEFUL (i.e playoff) versatility
5. Both are elite defensive players.

AD last year had one of the best big man playoff runs of all time. 28/10/3.5 with elite defense. 29.6 PER, 66.5 TS%, .284 Win Shares per48 (led playoffs), 8.7 BPM, 130 Offensive Rating. These numbers can stand against ANY BIG MAN playoff run in the history of basketball. Giannis has not been able to play like this is ANY playoff run.

Look, you're trying too hard. GMs voted on this recently and if they had to choose to start a franchise today they'd go with Giannis over AD, 43% to 7%. That's a huge difference.

For as good as AD has been statistically he has long had the reputation of being unreliable as a franchise player because, as AD himself said, he doesn't like that kind of pressure.

It's a personality trait that has dogged AD since high school - he is not comfortable being an alpha male type of leader.

This means that, unlike Giannis, Davis would rather not have to carry a team on his back to the best record in the league, to #1 rankings, through the playoffs and to the conference finals or beyond.

In fact, LeBron targeted AD for his sidekick role because he knows Davis has the personality to accept a secondary role.

Bron knows that AD has the personality of someone who will not give the team problems if they're not considered the alpha male (AD's willing acceptance of lesser status is one reason why Dwyane Wade said that AD is a better fit for LeBron versus himself).

On the other hand, Giannis has been carrying a LeBron-like load and he's done a better job of that than Anthony Davis ever has, as evidenced by his LeBron-like back-to-back MVPs.

Playoffs? AD without LeBron hasn't done anything in the playoffs. He played a total of 13 playoff games in 7 seasons before LeBron and went nowhere. The idea that AD could lead a team to the #1 record and to the conference finals has never existed.

[StrongLurk]

And the last 3 years, Giannis has been the better player. He overtook AD. They aren't stagnant monoliths that don't change and improve.

Giannis' team with the Bucks isn't anywhere near better than what Davis had in NO. In fact, he had Cousins and Jrue, and a bunch of other nice pieces. Yet couldn't ever get close to doing what Giannis has done lately.

Holy crap you are so ignorant. First off, Cousins got injured before he could even play in the playoffs with AD. So that point you made is wrong.

Two, the ONE YEAR Jrue Holiday was healthy as a starter on the Pelicans was the 2018 season where AD actually made it to the second round out West but lost to the biggest superteam ever in the KD/Curry Warriors (AD put up 28/15/2/2/2 in that series vs the Warriors, so all-time great big man stuff). Are you really gonna fault AD that series? Giannis was worse vs the 19 Raps and 20 Heat.

AD NEVER had a Pelicans team consistently as good or healthy as what Giannis has these last 3 years, AND AD is playing out West, not in the East. Giannis is clearly a dominant player but he has the worse weakness possible for a superstar, and that's a complete lack of jumpshot. Lebron at 21 was more of a threat from the perimeter/free throw line than Giannis is now.

If Giannis is better than AD, why does Giannis get shut down eventually in the playoffs while AD never has?

[StrongLurk]

Look, you're trying too hard. GMs voted on this recently and if they had to choose to start a franchise today they'd go with Giannis over AD, 43% to 7%. That's a huge difference.

For as good as AD has been statistically he has long had the reputation of being unreliable as a franchise player because, as AD himself said, he doesn't like that kind of pressure.

It's a personality trait that has dogged AD since high school - he is not comfortable being an alpha male type of leader.

This means that, unlike Giannis, Davis would rather not have to carry a team on his back to the best record in the league, to #1 rankings, through the playoffs and to the conference finals or beyond.

In fact, LeBron targeted AD for his sidekick role because he knows Davis has the personality to accept a secondary role.

Bron knows that AD has the personality of someone who will not give the team problems if they're not considered the alpha male (AD's willing acceptance of lesser status is one reason why Dwyane Wade said that AD is a better fit for LeBron versus himself).

On the other hand, Giannis has been carrying a LeBron-like load and he's done a better job of that than Anthony Davis ever has, as evidenced by his LeBron-like back-to-back MVPs.

Playoffs? AD without LeBron hasn't done anything in the playoffs. He played a total of 13 playoff games in 7 seasons before LeBron and went nowhere. The idea that AD could lead a team to the #1 record and to the conference finals has never existed.

The only even remotely relevant point you made is the last paragraph, but I've already covered that through this thread. If Giannis is SO GOOD in the regular season, then why was he shutdown against the 19 Raps and the 20 Heat? Why did AD dominate the same Heat team that dogged Giannis completely? Why has AD NEVER been shut down in a playoff series unlike Giannis? It's because AD's game is a BETTER FIT for the playoffs, which is what matters for superstars. The PLAYOFFS.

Choosing Giannis over AD is like choosing James Harden over Kevin Durant, which is clearly wrong.

[AirTupac]

The only even remotely relevant point you made is the last paragraph, but I've already covered that through this thread. If Giannis is SO GOOD in the regular season, then why was he shutdown against the 19 Raps and the 20 Heat? Why did AD dominate the same Heat team that dogged Giannis completely? Why has AD NEVER been shut down in a playoff series unlike Giannis? It's because AD's game is a BETTER FIT for the playoffs, which is what matters for superstars. The PLAYOFFS.

Choosing Giannis over AD is like choosing James Harden over Kevin Durant, which is clearly wrong.

So true. Retards like plow are so useless to argue against.

1) Cousins was injured. BTW when did Cousins become some amazing piece anyways?

2) Essentially AD-Jrue-Rondo UPSET a higher seed. Swept them. Then went up against a historic warriors. Giannis would get shut down immediately.

[StrongLurk]

So true. Retards like plow are so useless to argue against.

1) Cousins was injured. BTW when did Cousins become some amazing piece anyways?

2) Essentially AD-Jrue-Rondo UPSET a higher seed. Swept them. Then went up against a historic warriors. Giannis would get shut down immediately.

Everyone knows Giannis is not the best player in the league despite his dominant regular seasons these past two seasons. I'd take Lebron, Kawhi, KD (if he's back 100%), and AD over Giannis for sure.

If Giannis played in the playoffs with the same production/efficiency as he did in the reg season, then I'd rank him higher than AD...but he doesn't.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/12a0ad7e5a8241618e87eb4bc714ee8f/800.jpeg


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DeadlyHappyHochstettersfrog-size_restricted.gif


https://media1.tenor.com/images/c780b8a857781e7ddb86f5c8f984bcc9/tenor.gif?itemid=19546187

[tpols]

Where do people get this idea that Giannis would lead the pelicans in the West anywhere? They likely wouldn't even make the playoffs with him from 2015-2020 and if they did it'd be a 7/8 seed first round sweep.

[bizil]

BEFORE AD got to the Lakers, I thought he was a bit better than Giannis. Reasons why is SKILL FOR SKILL on both sides of court, AD is the most gifted PF EVER! And he's also a freak athlete as well. Maybe not the freak Giannis is, but AD is a freak athlete nonetheless. So if your answer is Giannis over AD, it's BECAUSE he's a bit more physically dominant. And he plays often in a point power forward capacity and is a better passer. And I get it.

But AD for all intents and purposes is the closest we've seen to a hybird of KG (positionless 7 foot type of player on both sides of the court) and Duncan (interior dominance wise from the PF spot). And as his 3 ball shooting evolves he could have that Sheed in him too. A guy who gets 100+3's AND over 100 blocks a season from the PF spot. So AD has the AWESOME BLEND of positional versatility AND overall skill versatility that Giannis doesn't have. So you could go either way, but give me AD as of now.

[insidehoops]

How would you guys compare them defensively?