Why Allen Iverson Is One Of The Most Overrated Players in NBA History

[Drygon]

The "Basketball Examined" made a 30 minutes video on why AI is among NBA's most overrated players ever.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibd-9zPfwNc

Here's a summary for people who can't or didn't watch the video for whatever the reason might be.


--------------------------



Breakdown of AI's scoring during his prime years (between 1998-99 season and 2007-08 season)

https://imgur.com/a/y8H07G9

- AI never shot at or above 50% from the field, 50% from 2P or 40% from 3P

- AI was the least efficient perimeter star player in his era compared to Kobe, T-Mac, Vince, Ray Allen & Paul Pierce

- AI's high scoring averages despite his inefficiency is because he took more shots than any player

- AI's 4 scoring titles are near the bottom of FG% and 2P% compared to other scoring champs in NBA history

- AI is near the bottom of FG%, 2P% and 3P% when he won all of his 4 scoring titles compared top 20 scorers in his era

- AI has worst FG% and 2nd worst 2P% compared to top 25 scorers in NBA history

- AI is the worst 30+ points per game scorer in NBA history

- AI has worst FG% among players who took 19 906+ FGA

- AI is near the bottom of 2P% among players who took 16 523+ 2PA

- AI has worst 3P% among players who took 3383+ 3PA

Breakdown of AI's 2001 playoff run and his supporting cast from that year

https://imgur.com/a/BUYuALz

- The 2001 playoffs is the only season of AI's career where he made it out from the 2nd round

- The 2000-01 Sixers is the only team in NBA history with reigning MVP, DPOY, 6MOTY and COTY

- Eric Snow was the main playmaker and averaged 10 PPG and 7 APG

- Tyrone Hill was top 20 rebounder that season and averaged 9.5 PPG & and RPG.

- Theo Ratliff was an All-Star and lead the league in blocks. Was eventually traded away for Mutumbo

- Theo Ratliff, Eric Snow and George Lynch all received considerable votes for 2000-01 All-Defensive Team

- Reggie Miller outplayed AI in the 1st round, but AI's supporting cast was better

- Vince Carter outplayed AI in the 2nd round, although their supporting casts was a bit more evenly matched

- The ECF matchup between Sixers and Bucks is one of the most controversial playoff series in NBA history. Many argues it seemed rigged for the Sixers to win the matchup. The Sixers had advantages of 186-120 in free throws, 12-3 in technicals and 5-0 in flagrant fouls. Glenn Robinson, one of Bucks' top-two scorers, didn't even attempt a free throw until Game 5

- The Sixers eventually won Game 7 of ECF and AI dropped 44 points on 51% FG. His supporting cast also came through. Mutumbo had 23 points and 19 rebounds, Aaron McKie had 10 points and 13 assists, Tyrone Hill had 11 points and 10 rebounds, Raja Bell with 9 points in 10 minutes coming off the bench

- Shaquille O'Neal outplayed AI and Sixers would be gentleman swept in NBA Finals

Breakdown of AI's career after 2000-01 season

https://imgur.com/a/C7oOBb3

- In the 2nd round of 2003 playoffs, AI had 28.5 PPG on terrible efficiency against Pistons (without Billups for 3 games). The Sixers lost the series in 6 games

- In 2003-04 season, the Sixers were 39-43 and missed the playoffs. Although AI only played 48 games due to knee injury, they had 19-29 record with AI in the lineup

- In the 2nd round of 2005 playoffs, AI had 31.2 PPG on great shooting splits against Pistons. The Sixers lost the series in 5 games

- In 2005-06 season, the Sixers had an another 20+ PPG scorer in Chris Webber to pair with AI. The sophomore Andre Iguodala had 12 PPG and 6 RPG on 51% FG. And Kyle Korver had 11 PPG and 42% from 3-point line. Not to mention Sixers also had valuable role players. However, AI failed to lead his team to the playoffs and ended up with 38-44 record despite with more talented supporting cast compared to 2000-01 Sixers

- In 2006-07 season, AI was traded to Nuggets and became 2nd option next to Carmelo Anthony. They had a HOF coach in George Karl and DPOY Marcus Camby. The Nuggets had a 26-24 record with AI in the lineup and made it to playoffs as a 6th seed

- In the 1st round of 2006 playoffs, AI had 31 PPG on 50% FG in Game 1 against Spurs. But he shot below 37% FG in the next following 4 games. Tony Parker outplayed AI as both were 2nd options for their respective teams

- In 2007-08 season, the Nuggets finished as 8th seed with 50-32 record. However, they got swept by Lakers in the 1st round. Pau Gasol outplayed AI in that matchup. If AI was able to lead 2001 76ers team to NBA Finals & even won Game 1 against Lakers (who had 11-0 record in West playoffs), then why couldn't AI win a single game despite his 2008 Nuggets was much more talented?

- In 2008-09 season, Nuggets traded away AI to Pistons and replaced him with Chauncey Billups who was 3 time All-Star and lead Pistons to 6 straight ECF apperances. Never mind that Billups reached 2 NBA Finals and won a Championship & FMVP in 2004. With Billups, the Nuggets finished as 2nd seed with 54-28 record. The Nuggets reached WCF and would lose in a grueling 6 games series to the eventual Champs Lakers.

[pandiani17]

The "Basketball Examined" made a 30 minutes video on why AI is among NBA's most overrated players ever.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibd-9zPfwNc

Here's a summary for people who can't or didn't watch the video for whatever the reason might be.


--------------------------



Breakdown of AI's scoring during his prime years (between 1998-99 season and 2007-08 season)

https://imgur.com/a/y8H07G9

- AI never shot at or above 50% from the field, 50% from 2P or 40% from 3P

- AI was the least efficient perimeter star player in his era compared to Kobe, T-Mac, Vince, Ray Allen & Paul Pierce

- AI's high scoring averages despite his inefficiency is because he took more shots than any player

- AI's 4 scoring titles are near the bottom of FG% and 2P% compared to other scoring champs in NBA history

- AI is near the bottom of FG%, 2P% and 3P% when he won all of his 4 scoring titles compared top 20 scorers in his era

- AI has worst FG% and 2nd worst 2P% compared to top 25 scorers in NBA history

- AI is the worst 30+ points per game scorer in NBA history

- AI has worst FG% among players who took 19 906+ FGA

- AI is near the bottom of 2P% among players who took 16 523+ 2PA

- AI has worst 3P% among players who took 3383+ 3PA

Breakdown of AI's 2001 playoff run and his supporting cast from that year

https://imgur.com/a/BUYuALz

- The 2001 playoffs is the only season of AI's career where he made it out from the 2nd round

- The 2000-01 Sixers is the only team in NBA history with reigning MVP, DPOY, 6MOTY and COTY

- Eric Snow was the main playmaker and averaged 10 PPG and 7 APG

- Tyrone Hill was top 20 rebounder that season and averaged 9.5 PPG & and RPG.

- Theo Ratliff was an All-Star and lead the league in blocks. Was eventually traded away for Mutumbo

- Theo Ratliff, Eric Snow and George Lynch all received considerable votes for 2000-01 All-Defensive Team

- Reggie Miller outplayed AI in the 1st round, but AI's supporting cast was better

- Vince Carter outplayed AI in the 2nd round, although their supporting casts was a bit more evenly matched

- The ECF matchup between Sixers and Bucks is one of the most controversial playoff series in NBA history. Many argues it seemed rigged for the Sixers to win the matchup. The Sixers had advantages of 186-120 in free throws, 12-3 in technicals and 5-0 in flagrant fouls. Glenn Robinson, one of Bucks' top-two scorers, didn't even attempt a free throw until Game 5

- The Sixers eventually won Game 7 of ECF and AI dropped 44 points on 51% FG. His supporting cast also came through. Mutumbo had 23 points and 19 rebounds, Aaron McKie had 10 points and 13 assists, Tyrone Hill had 11 points and 10 rebounds, Raja Bell with 9 points in 10 minutes coming off the bench

- Shaquille O'Neal outplayed AI and Sixers would be gentleman swept in NBA Finals

Breakdown of AI's career after 2000-01 season

https://imgur.com/a/C7oOBb3

- In the 2nd round of 2003 playoffs, AI had 28.5 PPG on terrible efficiency against Pistons (without Billups for 3 games). The Sixers lost the series in 6 games

- In 2003-04 season, the Sixers were 39-43 and missed the playoffs. Although AI only played 48 games due to knee injury, they had 19-29 record with AI in the lineup

- In the 2nd round of 2005 playoffs, AI had 31.2 PPG on great shooting splits against Pistons. The Sixers lost the series in 5 games

- In 2005-06 season, the Sixers had an another 20+ PPG scorer in Chris Webber to pair with AI. The sophomore Andre Iguodala had 12 PPG and 6 RPG on 51% FG. And Kyle Korver had 11 PPG and 42% from 3-point line. Not to mention Sixers also had valuable role players. However, AI failed to lead his team to the playoffs and ended up with 38-44 record despite with more talented supporting cast compared to 2000-01 Sixers

- In 2006-07 season, AI was traded to Nuggets and became 2nd option next to Carmelo Anthony. They had a HOF coach in George Karl and DPOY Marcus Camby. The Nuggets had a 26-24 record with AI in the lineup and made it to playoffs as a 6th seed

- In the 1st round of 2006 playoffs, AI had 31 PPG on 50% FG in Game 1 against Spurs. But he shot below 37% FG in the next following 4 games. Tony Parker outplayed AI as both were 2nd options for their respective teams

- In 2007-08 season, the Nuggets finished as 8th seed with 50-32 record. However, they got swept by Lakers in the 1st round. Pau Gasol outplayed AI in that matchup. If AI was able to lead 2001 76ers team to NBA Finals & even won Game 1 against Lakers (who had 11-0 record in West playoffs), then why couldn't AI win a single game despite his 2008 Nuggets was much more talented?

- In 2008-09 season, Nuggets traded away AI to Pistons and replaced him with Chauncey Billups who was 3 time All-Star and lead Pistons to 6 straight ECF apperances. Never mind that Billups reached 2 NBA Finals and won a Championship & FMVP in 2004. With Billups, the Nuggets finished as 2nd seed with 54-28 record. The Nuggets reached WCF and would lose in a grueling 6 games series to the eventual Champs Lakers.

Here we go. Overrated or underrated, AI will always be one of my favorites players of all-time. Multiple scoring crowns, MVP of the league, beating VC, Ray Allen and Kobe in their match-ups in the 2001 play-offs, putting MJ and Lue on skates, etc. But come on ISH, bring on the hate!!!:rockon:

[light]

This was unnecessary.

AI was a pop culture icon. He's probably underrated.

The effect that Iverson had on us is always going to be greater than anything he did when he was playing. He was an influencer. He was THE influencer of his day.

[pandiani17]

This was unnecessary.

AI was a pop culture icon. He's probably underrated.

The effect that Iverson had on us is always going to be greater than anything he did when he was playing. He was an influencer. He was THE influencer of his day.

Agree.:cheers:But he gets lots of hate in this forum.

[k0kakw0rld]

You can't teach "heart". That's what he had in him.

[fourkicks44]

This was unnecessary.

AI was a pop culture icon. He's probably underrated.

The effect that Iverson had on us is always going to be greater than anything he did when he was playing. He was an influencer. He was THE influencer of his day.

OP is the biggest hater ever.

Congratulations OP.

[Kblaze8855]

Way too many of the people even bringing up AI are hating for him to be overrated.

Forever talking up nobodies like great help ignoring the same things used against AI when propping up the supporting cast. Don’t know how many times I’ve heard about Aaron Mckie like he didn’t put up 8 points on 31% shooting in the finals only to be praised by people mad AI did 36 on 41% with that guy as his only other shot creator.

Gonna be hearing about shooting percentages in a league almost all guards shot poorly in till the end of time. Let him play a team that gives up 119 points a game like some do now and tell people they can’t touch him off ball or on drives on teams with 7 shooters instead of Kevin Olie who made 9 threes in his career. See if those percentages climb a bit. Be the exact same player while the stat nerds who can’t get their heads around the circumstances treat him with more respect for better numbers that wouldn’t mean anything.

[coin24]

Blasphemy.

AI was a beast

[Reggie43]

He was hard to build around and probably a pain to play with but he was hustle and heart personified. He played his way but very few people played/competed harder than him.

[Xiao Yao You]

You can't teach "heart". That's what he had in him.

yes he did. Basketball IQ not so much

[HoopsNY]

Way too many of the people even bringing up AI are hating for him to be overrated.

Forever talking up nobodies like great help ignoring the same things used against AI when propping up the supporting cast. Don’t know how many times I’ve heard about Aaron Mckie like he didn’t put up 8 points on 31% shooting in the finals only to be praised by people mad AI did 36 on 41% with that guy as his only other shot creator.

Gonna be hearing about shooting percentages in a league almost all guards shot poorly in till the end of time. Let him play a team that gives up 119 points a game like some do now and tell people they can’t touch him off ball or on drives on teams with 7 shooters instead of Kevin Olie who made 9 threes in his career. See if those percentages climb a bit. Be the exact same player while the stat nerds who can’t get their heads around the circumstances treat him with more respect for better numbers that wouldn’t mean anything.

AI was overrated during his time, but it comes as no surprise that no one really remembers him in the same light since then. I wouldn't be surprised if he's completely forgotten in ten years.

AI couldn't co-exist with Stackhouse or Hughes, and they were lousy teammates themselves. But he just wasn't the type of player you could build a team around. His lockdown defense was sub-par but he gambled a lot in the passing lanes, which did result in a good amount of steals.

But his work ethic sucked. His "we talkin bout practice mayn" debacle with the press and his constant feuding with Larry Brown wasn't something to ignore at all. In addition, the whole supporting cast thing is interesting, but what high powered offense did Brown have just two seasons later when his Pistons won the title? And I'd argue they had a better offense than Detroit did.

I mean, he got to Denver and played alongside Melo. How did that go? Denver gets rid of him for Chauncey Billups and Denver goes to the WCF. AI couldn't get past the first round with those guys.

[ralph_i_el]

Way too many of the people even bringing up AI are hating for him to be overrated.

Forever talking up nobodies like great help ignoring the same things used against AI when propping up the supporting cast. Don’t know how many times I’ve heard about Aaron Mckie like he didn’t put up 8 points on 31% shooting in the finals only to be praised by people mad AI did 36 on 41% with that guy as his only other shot creator.

Gonna be hearing about shooting percentages in a league almost all guards shot poorly in till the end of time. Let him play a team that gives up 119 points a game like some do now and tell people they can’t touch him off ball or on drives on teams with 7 shooters instead of Kevin Olie who made 9 threes in his career. See if those percentages climb a bit. Be the exact same player while the stat nerds who can’t get their heads around the circumstances treat him with more respect for better numbers that wouldn’t mean anything.

^^^^This. Watch the games bucko.

[Gudo]

That is why its not all about stats. AI led a team made up of mckey, snow, mutombo, etc to the finals.

[Kblaze8855]

AI was overrated during his time, but it comes as no surprise that no one really remembers him in the same light since then. I wouldn't be surprised if he's completely forgotten in ten years.

AI couldn't co-exist with Stackhouse or Hughes, and they were lousy teammates themselves. But he just wasn't the type of player you could build a team around. His lockdown defense was sub-par but he gambled a lot in the passing lanes, which did result in a good amount of steals.

But his work ethic sucked. His "we talkin bout practice mayn" debacle with the press and his constant feuding with Larry Brown wasn't something to ignore at all. In addition, the whole supporting cast thing is interesting, but what high powered offense did Brown have just two seasons later when his Pistons won the title? And I'd argue they had a better offense than Detroit did.

I mean, he got to Denver and played alongside Melo. How did that go? Denver gets rid of him for Chauncey Billups and Denver goes to the WCF. AI couldn't get past the first round with those guys.


I have several issues there but let me put them aside and simply ask....

Offensive supporting cast wise.....

With AI and Billups as the lead guards(though Rip was leading scorer I believe)....

Rip Hamilton, Rasheed, Okur, Prince, Corliss, and Ben < Eric Snow, Mckie, Lynch, Mccullough, Jumaine Jones, Lynch and Mutombo?

Even forgetting Sheed and Rip....

Did any of the 76ers ever show as much offensive talent as Corliss Williamson? I think he was 6th man of the year the season after Mckie and he was like a 19ppg guy with Mitch Richmond.

The most talented offensive player AI played with in Philly was probably post injury Webber....or Stackhouse who you mentioned. And the pistons traded Stackhouse for Rip Hamilton who you dont appear high on...then won the title.

The 01 Sixers arent even close to the 04 Pistons offensive talent wise.

Rip Hamilton or Billups alone(whoever you call #2) destroy Aaron Mckie and that isnt even factoring in Rasheed who was even without a scorers mentality....a more talented player than either of them.

The 04 Pistons would look rather talented in todays league. Im not sure what you do with some of AIs guys.

Okur is probably a better scoring option than anyone on the 01 Sixers if youre looking for a sidekick. Mutombo can get you an ugly 16 but not on plays you can rely on or build offense to generate. Nobody on that squad could be what Okur was on Utah.

The Pistons were pretty talented on offense even if the 66-83 final scores didnt let them produce enough to all look like it.

[STATUTORY]

he played in an era where it was tougher for perimeter players to score efficiently and when efficiency stats weren't valued in the same way by teams

volume stats was how players were evaluated and that's what AI put up

i have no doubt that if AI played in the current era, he would have more efficient stats

[PP34Deuce]

Iverson was fast quick and would thrive in todays space and pace league. Hes not overrated at all. Basically led his team at a time where bigs and bigger swingmen ruled the league

[StrongLurk]

AI is overrated compared to his fandom for sure...but he was still a great player, especially considering his size and the era he played in. He is a top 50 player of all time still, but a lot of his fans wanna act like he's top 10-15 lol.

[Snow]

The FG% thing with AI is just beating a dead horse. It's been said already a million times. I guess this is a million and one. Same with the SMOY, COY, DPOY and most of the other "jaw droppers" listed here.

Ask poor GOBB. Half the grey hairs on the old man's head probably come from the frustration of defending AI during the early EzBoard days

[FireDavidKahn]

He easily is.

He gets overrated because he is small

[EllEffEll]

The point of playing the game is to win the game. Everything else is secondary, or it should be if the ultimate pinnacle of success is the championship.

But, Allen Iverson couldn't be bothered with taking practicing with his team seriously because he was too busy being young, dumb, and defiant. My grind with Allen Iverson has nothing to do with talent or heart. He had those in spades. What he didn't have is the ability to put the success of his team at a high enough priority to win it all. He may have never have accomplished that, but we know he could have done more, and he has as much as said so himself regarding his coach, Larry Brown:

"I love the person that I am. I feel comfortable in my skin. But if I could have a wish, as an athlete, I wish I would have bought in to what he was trying to give me all along. Just being defiant, being a certified a**hole for nothing — when all he wanted was the best for me."

As for being underrated or overrated, I guess that depends on what attributes you value most. Right, wrong, or otherwise, for stans, the success of the team seems to be secondary. For fans of a team, not so much.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

2001 was a very good season and playoff run, still lacked efficiency relative to his era at just 48% TS in playoffs. The rest of his career is not memorable. Top 60 ever is ok but over that and you're overrating him.

[Marchesk]

You can't teach "heart". That's what he had in him.

https://i.postimg.cc/13C37GPt/westbrook-heart.jpg

[Gohan]

I think it is overrating him a little bit when people saying he is a top 5 player ever but underrating him if you have him below top 30

[FireDavidKahn]

You can't teach "heart". That's what he had in him.

Which is a meaningless attribute when you're trying to gauge actual production.

[HoopsNY]

I have several issues there but let me put them aside and simply ask....

Offensive supporting cast wise.....

With AI and Billups as the lead guards(though Rip was leading scorer I believe)....

Rip Hamilton, Rasheed, Okur, Prince, Corliss, and Ben < Eric Snow, Mckie, Lynch, Mccullough, Jumaine Jones, Lynch and Mutombo?

Even forgetting Sheed and Rip....

Did any of the 76ers ever show as much offensive talent as Corliss Williamson? I think he was 6th man of the year the season after Mckie and he was like a 19ppg guy with Mitch Richmond.

I didn't mean to say that the Sixers cast was better than Detroit's. They weren't. Though Williamson wasn't as great as he was alongside Richmond. He put up those numbers maybe 3-4 years prior. In addition, McKie could match him. Philly's offense was as good if not better, but that was largely due to AI.


The most talented offensive player AI played with in Philly was probably post injury Webber....or Stackhouse who you mentioned. And the pistons traded Stackhouse for Rip Hamilton who you dont appear high on...then won the title.


No, I am high on Rip. But my point was the overall flow of the team. Despite having such a lack luster supporting cast, Philly managed to rank higher than Detroit during their championship run, with the same coach. A lot of that boils down to Iverson, but the numbers are misleading. What Philly put on paper wasn't indicative of their offense at all - and that includes Iverson's bloated 30-33 PPG.

So while he could put Philly slightly ahead of Detroit, it came as an overall detriment to the team. This is where I rank Billups ahead of Iverson.


The 01 Sixers arent even close to the 04 Pistons offensive talent wise.


Agree and disagree for the aforementioned reason. Guys like Sheed look better than they actually were. He averaged 17 points on 50% shooting on Portland between '97 and '03, then comes to Detroit and his PPG fall significantly, and he shoots a woeful 43%. Sheed isn't a shooting guard. He was a PF.


Rip Hamilton or Billups alone(whoever you call #2) destroy Aaron Mckie and that isnt even factoring in Rasheed who was even without a scorers mentality....a more talented player than either of them.


I don't disagree.


The 04 Pistons would look rather talented in todays league. Im not sure what you do with some of AIs guys.


Yea, if we're talking about the Sixers cast minus Iverson. My point was about the Sixers as an offense as a whole. Their lack of ability is somewhat linked to AI's style of play. AI wouldn't allow for any cohesion with another ball dominant player like Stackhouse, or a developing guard and defender like Hughes. So who is to say what he would do alongside a LeBron, PG, Westbrook, KD, Harden, etc?



Okur is probably a better scoring option than anyone on the 01 Sixers if youre looking for a sidekick. Mutombo can get you an ugly 16 but not on plays you can rely on or build offense to generate. Nobody on that squad could be what Okur was on Utah.


Keyword/name: Utah

I don't disagree with anything you've said above, but perhaps my statements weren't clear, which is my fault.

AI was not a leader in the sense of bringing guys together who had talent, at least not in the sense of a LeBron James or even a Mark Jackson. He was not only ball dominant, but he was so ball dominant that the Sixers offense pretty much stood around and watched Iverson play, without the kick outs and playmaking that a James Harden, Russell Westbrook, or even Kobe Bryant could do.

You can't expect there to be any development or team offense that grows with that kind of play. I watched that era closely and that was a consistent criticism of Iverson, in a time where ball movement mattered much more, particularly in the post.

In addition, you brought Billups, who I consider to be a more valuable player than AI. Larry Brown went to Detroit and that team won a championship. Some would argue the Lakers in 2004 had more talent than they did in 2001. Regardless of how you view the Sixers of 2001 and the Pistons of 2004, it's very interesting that Brown took a team with less wins to a title against a Laker team that seemingly had more talent.

But probably my biggest takeaway is the difference between what Iverson brought to the Nuggets vs that of Billups. Billups got there and took that team to the WCF, winning 54 games. AI got to the first round and couldn't scratch a win off of LA, it's embarrassing.

Iverson had a lot of heart for his size, but he is severely overrated. He wasn't a great leader, couldn't develop anyone, relied on iso play, and was exposed when he got to Denver.

[dankok8]

HoopsNY and I agree on a lot of things but not this time.

Iverson's efficiency in Denver pretty much improved dramatically playing alongside Melo which lends a lot of support to the idea that Iverson would be much more efficient if he played with someone who could take some defensive attention away from him. Denver in 2009 improved a lot because Birdman played very inspired D and JR Smith improved a lot compared to the year prior. Melo also had a career postseason playing on a level much better than the year before and which he would never replicate again IMO. A lot of things came together for that team to reach the WCF. It wasn't just Billups coming in for Iverson. With that being said Billups being a conservative player who needs the ball less worked better next to an iso scorer like Melo. I could see AI and Melo clashing both being iso scorers.

Another thing I want do add. One thing very underrated with AI are his historically low turnover rates especially in the playoffs. In fact he and MJ had the lowest TOV% of any player exceeding 30%+ usage as far as I know. That can easily make up for his poor efficiency shooting the ball given how turnovers are much more damaging than missed shots.

In today's game I can see Iverson shooting 3-4% better nd draw even more fouls. Like people said the late 90's and early 00's were a brutal era.

[Xiao Yao You]

HoopsNY and I agree on a lot of things but not this time.

Iverson's efficiency in Denver pretty much improved dramatically playing alongside Melo which lends a lot of support to the idea that Iverson would be much more efficient if he played with someone who could take some defensive attention away from him. Denver in 2009 improved a lot because Birdman played very inspired D and JR Smith improved a lot compared to the year prior. Melo also had a career postseason playing on a level much better than the year before and which he would never replicate again IMO. A lot of things came together for that team to reach the WCF. It wasn't just Billups coming in for Iverson. With that being said Billups being a conservative player who needs the ball less worked better next to an iso scorer like Melo. I could see AI and Melo clashing both being iso scorers.

Another thing I want do add. One thing very underrated with AI are his historically low turnover rates especially in the playoffs. In fact he and MJ had the lowest TOV% of any player exceeding 30%+ usage as far as I know. That can easily make up for his poor efficiency shooting the ball given how turnovers are much more damaging than missed shots.

In today's game I can see Iverson shooting 3-4% better nd draw even more fouls. Like people said the late 90's and early 00's were a brutal era.

Didn't his efficiency improve because the hand checking rules changed? His efficiency would have improved if he'd passed the ball more instead of throwing up a tough shot against a triple team

[MrFonzworth]

You can't teach "heart". That's what he had in him.

Are you a middle school coach from the 80s? Stfu bitch

[tontoz]

Didn't his efficiency improve because the hand checking rules changed? His efficiency would have improved if he'd passed the ball more instead of throwing up a tough shot against a triple team

Yes he had his career year in 05/06 right after the change, his last full year in Philly. Small guards across the league saw a jump in production. I think that was the same year Nash won his first MVP.

Iverson took too many jumpers and didn't shoot them well. For his career he averaged nearly 4 3s per game shooting 31.3%. Took a lot of midrange shots as well.

But man he was crazy taking it to the basket. His athleticism was elite, basically a smaller Westbrook with better hops if you can believe that. He also had a better BBIQ than Russ and better handles. Too much of a chucker though which held him back especially given his weak J.

I dont see people hyping him much nowadays so it is hard for me to sign off on the overrated label.

[hateraid]

The one year AI had a shot at the title was in the Shaq/Kobe and Duncan era. There was no shot at winning. Then management was unsuccessful at giving him a secondary scorer. He carried a cast that was designed to compliment but on their own would have been a losing team.
The intangibles AI had are unmatched. He's Lebron-esque in the fact his impact shows more in his presence

[HylianNightmare]

pound for pound

[tpols]

pound for pound

You don't get credit for that though.. you do what you did. Iverson by his own word never bought into a team philosophy. He was a rockstar superman one man band. Who shot like shit when it mattered and played no defense. Impact wise, he's a joke compared to his perception.

[dankok8]

Again... AI had historically low turnover rates. His 9.3% TOV% in the playoffs is insane. That significantly makes up for his shooting inefficiency.

[GOBB]

People who say iverson is overrated fail the eye test and are the type of fans who will study advanced stats of a player to form a conclusion how good that player is. Glad I watched Iverson when he played.

[Gohan]

People who say iverson is overrated fail the eye test and are the type of fans who will study advanced stats of a player to form a conclusion how good that player is. Glad I watched Iverson when he played.

Couldn’t of said it better myself:cheers:

[Gohan]

You could visibly see when he is on the court he made his teams better

[Xiao Yao You]

You could visibly see when he is on the court he made his teams better

Would his teams have been even better if he passed it to an open man instead of taking a tough shot against a triple team though?

[HoopsNY]

HoopsNY and I agree on a lot of things but not this time.

Iverson's efficiency in Denver pretty much improved dramatically playing alongside Melo which lends a lot of support to the idea that Iverson would be much more efficient if he played with someone who could take some defensive attention away from him. Denver in 2009 improved a lot because Birdman played very inspired D and JR Smith improved a lot compared to the year prior. Melo also had a career postseason playing on a level much better than the year before and which he would never replicate again IMO. A lot of things came together for that team to reach the WCF. It wasn't just Billups coming in for Iverson. With that being said Billups being a conservative player who needs the ball less worked better next to an iso scorer like Melo. I could see AI and Melo clashing both being iso scorers.

Another thing I want do add. One thing very underrated with AI are his historically low turnover rates especially in the playoffs. In fact he and MJ had the lowest TOV% of any player exceeding 30%+ usage as far as I know. That can easily make up for his poor efficiency shooting the ball given how turnovers are much more damaging than missed shots.

In today's game I can see Iverson shooting 3-4% better nd draw even more fouls. Like people said the late 90's and early 00's were a brutal era.

I think you're greatly underrating the impact of Billups to that team. They won 54 games with Billups at the helm and improved to 7th/8th in ORTG and DRTG as opposed to 11th/10th the year prior.

Not to mention, Billups was a 21/4/7 player on nearly 60% TS% in the playoffs. Birdman came off the bench and averaged 20 Mpg. Put some respek on Billups' name!

[HoopsNY]

Yes he had his career year in 05/06 right after the change, his last full year in Philly. Small guards across the league saw a jump in production. I think that was the same year Nash won his first MVP.

Iverson took too many jumpers and didn't shoot them well. For his career he averaged nearly 4 3s per game shooting 31.3%. Took a lot of midrange shots as well.

But man he was crazy taking it to the basket. His athleticism was elite, basically a smaller Westbrook with better hops if you can believe that. He also had a better BBIQ than Russ and better handles. Too much of a chucker though which held him back especially given his weak J.

I dont see people hyping him much nowadays so it is hard for me to sign off on the overrated label.

The reason I think he is overrated is because of how he was viewed at the time. I remember I had his sneakers. AI was the wave. And people in general regarded him as the best player in the league for a short time. The reality is that he was none of that. Duncan, Kobe, and Shaq were all far better players. AI is just not that guy.

[HoopsNY]

You don't get credit for that though.. you do what you did. Iverson by his own word never bought into a team philosophy. He was a rockstar superman one man band. Who shot like shit when it mattered and played no defense. Impact wise, he's a joke compared to his perception.

Agreed

[HoopsNY]

People who say iverson is overrated fail the eye test and are the type of fans who will study advanced stats of a player to form a conclusion how good that player is. Glad I watched Iverson when he played.

Bro I watched Iverson play too. You're overlooking far too many pitfalls in favor of his "heart."

[tontoz]

The reason I think he is overrated is because of how he was viewed at the time. I remember I had his sneakers. AI was the wave. And people in general regarded him as the best player in the league for a short time. The reality is that he was none of that. Duncan, Kobe, and Shaq were all far better players. AI is just not that guy.


The OP isn't saying he WAS overrated, it is saying he IS overrated. Two different things.

[n00bie]

AI had the worst offensive team. He literally had to carry the scoring load for his team every single night or they'd never score a bucket.

[GOBB]

Bro I watched Iverson play too. You're overlooking far too many pitfalls in favor of his "heart."

Every player has pitfalls. You clearly didn't watch Iverson with clear glasses. Ever get your prescription refilled?

[FireDavidKahn]

The one year AI had a shot at the title was in the Shaq/Kobe and Duncan era. There was no shot at winning. Then management was unsuccessful at giving him a secondary scorer. He carried a cast that was designed to compliment but on their own would have been a losing team.
The intangibles AI had are unmatched. He's Lebron-esque in the fact his impact shows more in his presence

AI is LeBron-esque?

:roll:

[Gudo]

AI is LeBron-esque?

:roll:

I know. What an insult to AI right?

[Gohan]

AI is LeBron-esque?

:roll:

Lmao at this lebron Stan getting butthurt. You’re just mad he used to whip lebrons ass up and down the court when we was still in philly

[HoopsNY]

Every player has pitfalls. You clearly didn't watch Iverson with clear glasses. Ever get your prescription refilled?

Why would I get something refilled that I never had to begin with. I wasn't trying to be malicious. Sheesh. In any case, I'm not saying that AI wasn't a great player, he was. But AI wasn't the player to succeed with. His Philly years had people doubting me but what ultimately played out in Denver was proof in and of itself.

[hateraid]

AI is LeBron-esque?

:roll:

You obviously didn't get the context

[TheGoatest]

Why Allen Iverson Is One Of The Most Overrated Players in NBA History

He's certainly overrated in terms of popularity, but I don't think that he's really that overrated on all-time ranking lists.

He's really the opposite of someone like Tim Duncan: He is a way bigger basketball basketball icon than he was a great basketball player, whereas the opposite is the truth for Tim Duncan.

[Kblaze8855]

Why would I get something refilled that I never had to begin with. I wasn't trying to be malicious. Sheesh. In any case, I'm not saying that AI wasn't a great player, he was. But AI wasn't the player to succeed with. His Philly years had people doubting me but what ultimately played out in Denver was proof in and of itself.


It really wasnt.

Guys much more respected by the purists had worse results in good situations than being an average team that had several of its its stars(melo, camby, and Kmart) miss 100+ games combined one year and winning 50 the next. They lost to the NBA champion spurs and the 08 Lakers. When AI left they lost to the 09 Lakers late...then the Jazz in the first round. A lot of it is matchups like always. They were one game from playing the Hornets in the first round instead of the Lakers in 08. Possibly winning that series wouldnt make either he or Melo anything they arent now. Still lost to the same team which kinda puts a cap on what they could accomplish. Then turned around and got wiped out by the Jazz. Not like Denver was some bigtime problem for the West when AI left.

[Kblaze8855]

A lot of it really is just perception. Imagine Iverson on a team with a 29/11 MVP caliber big, a multi time DPOY, a 20ppg 6th man, a solid 17ppg 2 guard, and a legendary coach....and being swept by a 43 win team in the first round(one of 9 first round losses for said player....all with HOF teammates). It would be getting brought up every time his name is mentioned. John Stockton does it....crickets. Lose in the first round with I think 3 55 win teams. Crickets. Nobody says thats a player you just cant win with. Team never went anywhere an Iverson team didnt. Lost early all the time. Perception is....AI is hard to build a winner around. Because he didnt win with guys who never won anywhere and broken down imposters on their last legs. Like Chris Paul would win with Kenny Thomas, KVH, and Eric snow as his 3 top scorers. Like 48 games and a playoff series win with that talent is something to be ashamed of. Chris Paul did little more than that on Clipper teams with ample talent. Both he and Kidd drug teams without much talent out of a bad conference...but Kidd got a lot more respect for it. Put AI with 25ppg VC and 20ppg Jefferson....have all 3 play 78+ games in a bad conference and have essentially the same year AI had with Kenny Thomas and Eric Snow. AI would be getting laughed at for it just like hes mocked for not winning with no knee Webber. Kidd isnt. We act like it never happened.

AI had about the same success most of the HOF did. Hell more than most. But hes just a loser by nature.....

I just have to ask....when most of the hall won no more than him why is he seen as hard to win with...when most of them had better teams?

AI is hard to win with. Ok.

Is Nique? Mullin? Price? Stockton? Zo? Chris Paul? Gervin? Harden? Bernard King? Giannis? Ewing? Payton? Bob Lanier? Mcadoo? Did I miss some playoff success David Robinson had without Duncan?

Are all the people who didnt win anything he didnt....even with more talent....all hard to win with? Or just the ones we decide are despite similar results?

We just ignoring all the legends who won less or a similar amount with teams that were often better than his who we act like arent an impediment to winning?

AI gets a cancer label for the most nonsensical reasons. He sparred a bit with a coach who he eventually loved and loves him...he made a quip about practice when he obviously had to work hard to be as great as he was at his size. So hes a cancer. Meanwhile Jason Kidd gets his college coach fired after he organized a mutiny, gets drafted and beefs with his co star Jim Jackson over Toni Braxton and flat out tells the media hed sit out the season if Jim wasnt traded. Instead they blow up their team and trade Kidd to Phoenix...where he beats his wife in front of their kid and racks up DUis....getting himself sent to New Jersey where he repeated AIs accomplishment of dragging a mediocre team to the finals...which I guess gave him cover enough to also get that coach fired.....before later refusing to play to get himself traded again.

But AI is a cancer.

Maybe call them both out....both had women issues...coach issues...legal issues. But AI is a cancer. Kidd is respected after getting at least 2(probably 3) coaches fired directly, demanding trades twice, and racking up felonies that got him traded another time....down to continuing to get DUIs as a coach and beefing with his own assistants(google how he treated Lawrence Frank).

AI is cancer of the century though. For having a normal or slightly above normal level of success for a legend while having bad shooting numbers in a league no guard shot well in....

Just confusing. Everything there is rumor of AI doing(coach killing, wanting out, and being a difficult teammate) Kidd did in verifiable fact with absolutely no stink of being a cancer.....having accomplished nothing AI didnt until he played with Dirk the season Dirk decided not to miss shots anymore in the playoffs.

Just one of a dozen legends whos career gets praised for doing essentially the same shit AI did but being beloved for it.

[DMAVS41]

Why would I get something refilled that I never had to begin with. I wasn't trying to be malicious. Sheesh. In any case, I'm not saying that AI wasn't a great player, he was. But AI wasn't the player to succeed with. His Philly years had people doubting me but what ultimately played out in Denver was proof in and of itself.

Cool story.

You feel the same way about Chris Paul, he isn't a player you can succeed with?

[Rysio]

One of the most underrated more like it. At his best he was very dominant player just bad fg%.

[FireDavidKahn]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErAcTLdW8AAHRO7?format=jpg&name=medium