Advanced stat 'RAPTOR' top 10 list is out

[HBK_Kliq_2]

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

"RAPTOR" is usually one of the best advanced stats out there. How it works:


Our ratings, updated daily, use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate each player’s individual plus-minus measurements and wins above replacement, which accounts for playing time

1. Nikola Jokic
2. Anthony Davis
3. Kawhi Leonard
4. Mike Conley
5. Paul George
6. Luka Doncic
7. CJ McCollum
8. Nicolas Batum
9. John Collins
10. Joel Embiid

Clippers have 3 players that made the list! Kawhi, George and Nicolas Kaboom.

[ArbitraryWater]

looks pretty good to me


Conley Batum and Collins are pretty much what comes to mind when i think top 10

[tpols]

The Clippers will probably be the champions this year. Brooklyn is the main thing that stands in their way.

Also... Jokic at #1... people still don't realize how good he is. But he doesn't have any superstar teammates.

And AD #2. Yup... just like we've said.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Are Collins Conley and Batum elite?

[aj1987]

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

"RAPTOR" is usually one of the best advanced stats out there. How it works:



1. Nikola Jokic
2. Anthony Davis
3. Kawhi Leonard
4. Mike Conley
5. Paul George
6. Luka Doncic
7. CJ McCollum
8. Nicolas Batum
9. John Collins
10. Joel Embiid

Clippers have 3 players that made the list! Kawhi, George and Nicolas Kaboom.

Yeah, even ignoring the absence of LeBron, no KD? No Curry? No Harden?

Sure looks like the best metric to evaluate players. :roll: :roll:

[Axe]

#3 is a fraud nowadays

[Xiao Yao You]

Yeah, even ignoring the absence of LeBron, no KD? No Curry? No Harden?

Sure looks like the best metric to evaluate players. :roll: :roll:

Raptor is about impact on winning so Curry and Harden need to help their teams win more

[tpols]

Yeah, even ignoring the absence of LeBron, no KD? No Curry? No Harden?

Sure looks like the best metric to evaluate players. :roll: :roll:

Curry hasn't been as spectacular as his numbers would suggest in this small sample size to start the season. He's +1 in the metrics. 113 ORTG and a paltry 112 DRTG. AD for instance is +22 with a 122 ORTG. So yea... he's been way better. Harden has basically sit the season out until the last two games with the Nets. Lebron has been good +9 but not great like the guys throwing up double that. Small sample size but it is what it is right now.

[Im Still Ballin]

Where's LeBron? I don't see LeBron in those top 10 results.

Why isn't he there? This doesn't make sense.

[FKAri]

Where's LeBron? I don't see LeBron in those top 10 results.

Why isn't he there? This doesn't make sense.

Well if Lebron was in the top 10 then this thread wouldn't exist. So just as you can apply the anthropic principle to the Universe's existence you can apply something similar to this thread. The reason Lebron is not on this list is because if he was then you would have never heard about this list.

[warriorfan]

Curry hasn't been as spectacular as his numbers would suggest in this small sample size to start the season. He's +1 in the metrics. 113 ORTG and a paltry 112 DRTG. AD for instance is +22 with a 122 ORTG. So yea... he's been way better. Harden has basically sit the season out until the last two games with the Nets. Lebron has been good +9 but not great like the guys throwing up double that. Small sample size but it is what it is right now.

Yes. Steph has been doing fairly well but he hasn’t been himself. His three point shooting has been somewhat off.

[hold this L]

looks pretty good to me


Conley Batum and Collins are pretty much what comes to mind when i think top 10

Exactly. If that top 10 list with those 3 superstars isn't enough, HBK agreeing with it really seals that this is all legit. Guy knows his stuff.

[aj1987]

Curry hasn't been as spectacular as his numbers would suggest in this small sample size to start the season. He's +1 in the metrics. 113 ORTG and a paltry 112 DRTG. AD for instance is +22 with a 122 ORTG. So yea... he's been way better. Harden has basically sit the season out until the last two games with the Nets. Lebron has been good +9 but not great like the guys throwing up double that. Small sample size but it is what it is right now.
You really want to use ORtg and DRtg? I've seen you trash those metrics multiple times.

BTW, those metrics aren't very kind towards your boy. :cheers:




Raptor is about impact on winning so Curry and Harden need to help their teams win more


So, Batum and Collins have had more impact on winning than ****ing Curry and Harden? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[NBAGOAT]

These +/- type lists really aren’t very good with a small sample. Conleys been very good however and a huge reason Utah’s 10-4.

[Xiao Yao You]

You really want to use ORtg and DRtg? I've seen you trash those metrics multiple times.

BTW, those metrics aren't very kind towards your boy. :cheers:






So, Batum and Collins have had more impact on winning than ****ing Curry and Harden? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

this year they do. Curry and Harden have done little winning thus far. Pretty straightforward no?

[Airupthere]

I'm going to panic now. Lebron is not on the list. Better look at the accumulated stats again to feel better. Lol

[999Guy]

You really want to use ORtg and DRtg? I've seen you trash those metrics multiple times.

BTW, those metrics aren't very kind towards your boy. :cheers:






So, Batum and Collins have had more impact on winning than ****ing Curry and Harden? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Harden was sucking ass in Houston

No effort on either end

Curry’s been off and his defense is worse than ever

Wake out of 2017.

[aj1987]

this year they do. Curry and Harden have done little winning thus far. Pretty straightforward no?


Harden was sucking ass in Houston

No effort on either end

Curry’s been off and his defense is worse than ever

Wake out of 2017.

Replace Haredn and Curry with Batum and Collins. Who wins more?

Lets not forget Giannis, KD, Tatum, etc.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

there are a bunch of plus minus stats and im fairly sure Raptor is by far the worst one lol, RPM too I guess because they just don't say shit about it lul

LEBRONS the only other one out and I think it goes 1 Giannis 2 Jokic 3 Lebron 4 AD or something like that

[HBK_Kliq_2]

These +/- type lists really aren’t very good with a small sample. Conleys been very good however and a huge reason Utah’s 10-4.


there are a bunch of plus minus stats and im fairly sure Raptor is by far the worst one lol, RPM too I guess because they just don't say shit about it lul

LEBRONS the only other one out and I think it goes 1 Giannis 2 Jokic 3 Lebron 4 AD or something like that

NBA.com net rating has Kawhi at 15.0 this season and that's better then any Lebron James season (2009 his highest at 14.6). Also the Clippers lost by 50 without Kawhi and now they are the 1st seed.

The point is, Kawhi is the clear cut MVP this season and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

[Axe]

NBA.com net rating has Kawhi at 15.0 this season and that's better then any Lebron James season (2009 his highest at 14.6). Also the Clippers lost by 50 without Kawhi and now they are the 1st seed.

The point is, Kawhi is the clear cut MVP this season and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
He can be mvp while not going to the finals again at the very same time :cheers:

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

NBA.com net rating has Kawhi at 15.0 this season and that's better then any Lebron James season (2009 his highest at 14.6). Also the Clippers lost by 50 without Kawhi and now they are the 1st seed.

The point is, Kawhi is the clear cut MVP this season and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

its pretty idiotic to use net rating as proof of someone deserving MVP or not, especially this early on. net rating is basically a worse version of impact metrics in the first place

I don't think Lebron deserves MVP atm, but the fact that Kawhi has a higher net rating by about 2.2 vs him, which is basically like a 10 point swing over 13 games, isnt a good argument lmfao

also I don't think anyone gives a shit who wins MVP anyway lol

[iamgine]

How does this stat work?

For example according to this stat, this season in the Jazz; Conley is the best performer, Mitchell has been worse than Clarkson, and Bojan is the worst player in the NBA. Does that resemble reality?

[Xiao Yao You]

How does this stat work?

For example according to this stat, this season in the Jazz; Conley is the best performer, Mitchell has been worse than Clarkson, and Bojan is the worst player in the NBA. Does that resemble reality?

Seems accurate. O'Neale ahead of Mitchell too. Clarkson is shooting 50%/40%/90%. Mitchell not efficient. Bojan has been horrible. Pretty much worthless if he's not hitting shots.

[iamgine]

Fair enough.

According to this stat, the best playoff performer since 2013:

1 Anthony Davis'19-'20
2 Kawhi Leonard'18-'19
3 LeBron James'16-'17
4 Draymond Green'15-'16
4 LeBron James'15-'16
6 Draymond Green'14-'15
7 Stephen Curry'14-'15
7 LeBron James'19-'20
7 Nikola Jokic'18-'19
10 Stephen Curry'16-'17
10 LeBron James'17-'18
12 Draymond Green'17-'18
13 Kevin Durant'17-'18
13 Draymond Green'18-'19
15 Kyle Lowry'18-'19


I didn't know Dray had such an impact.

[ArbitraryWater]

Seems accurate. O'Neale ahead of Mitchell too. Clarkson is shooting 50%/40%/90%. Mitchell not efficient. Bojan has been horrible. Pretty much worthless if he's not hitting shots.


Bojan is shooting 39% from 3 with 7 attempts a game, maybe show some respect to your primary floor spacer.

[tpols]

Fair enough.

According to this stat, the best playoff performer since 2013:

1 Anthony Davis'19-'20
2 Kawhi Leonard'18-'19
3 LeBron James'16-'17
4 Draymond Green'15-'16
4 LeBron James'15-'16
6 Draymond Green'14-'15
7 Stephen Curry'14-'15
7 LeBron James'19-'20
7 Nikola Jokic'18-'19
10 Stephen Curry'16-'17
10 LeBron James'17-'18
12 Draymond Green'17-'18
13 Kevin Durant'17-'18
13 Draymond Green'18-'19
15 Kyle Lowry'18-'19


I didn't know Dray had such an impact.

His role in the system was perfect... He filled the stat sheet with dimes, boards, blocks and steals. No surprise 2020 AD is number 1. Literally went Kareem.

[Xiao Yao You]

Bojan is shooting 39% from 3 with 7 attempts a game, maybe show some respect to your primary floor spacer.

He's been mostly awful. Can't dribble without turning it over, doesn't rebound, can't pass, can't defend. If they can trade him for a starting pf he'll earn my respect

[ArbitraryWater]

He's been mostly awful. Can't dribble without turning it over, doesn't rebound, can't pass, can't defend. If they can trade him for a starting pf he'll earn my respect

cant pass?

[Xiao Yao You]

cant pass?

2 assists to 2 TO's a game!!! :cheers:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi has now moved ahead of Anthony Davis on the list and is #2 behind Jokic. The gap between Kawhi and Jokic is only .3

Also, clippers hold teams to a bottom 5 offensive rating when Kawhi is on court, they allow a top 2 offense when Kawhi is off the court.

Kawhi is also leading them in points, assists and they are the #1 offense in the NBA.

Wow, clear cut MVP.

[jayfan]

Batum with a nice bounce-back year.

He'd become a complete afterthought as a player over the last few seasons.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi has jumped ahead on this list and is currently destroying everybody.

Total RAPTOR:

1. Kawhi Leonard (11.6)
2 {Tie}Joel Embiid and Mike Conley (10.6)
3. Nikola Jokic (8.8)
4. JaKob Poeltl (7.8)
5. CJ Mccolum (7.5)


Kawhi's On\Off also crushes the other MVP candidates.

Kawhi - 14.0
Embiid - 11.7
Jokic - 2.6

Ouch on that Jokic on\off number, jokic is 5th worst on\off on his own damn team! wow eliminated from MVP

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/?player=Kawhi%20Leonard&season=2021

[HBK_Kliq_2]

This raptor stat also says in 2014 the best players were:

1. Chris Paul
2. Stephen Curry
3. Kevin Durant
4. Kawhi Leonard


Top 4 player for Kawhi in 2014? interesting lol i could of sworn every Lebron fan told me he was a role player. Top 4 in RAPTOR, led his team in VORP, finals MVP.

[Real Men Wear Green]

What is the methodology behind RAPTOR? Is it a math equation and if so what is the equation?

[dankok8]

RAPTOR is a terrible advanced stat. As are most of them to be honest.

[Xiao Yao You]

RAPTOR is a terrible advanced stat. As are most of them to be honest.

yeah let's just stick with ppg and triple doubles!

[AlternativeAcc.]

yeah let's just stick with ppg and triple doubles!

Literally nobody judges off ppg or triple doubles. You're very out of touch with reality

[Xiao Yao You]

Literally nobody judges off ppg or triple doubles. You're very out of touch with reality

what are they judging on if not those or analytics? ESPN highlites?

[AlternativeAcc.]

what are they judging on if not those or analytics? ESPN highlites?

Watching the games primarily, I would imagine

I haven't watched a game in years but I know who the best players are. I'm a bball savant though. For the average person you have to watch games to know

I do know that ppg and triple doubles aren't something people are using as their primary source of judgment. That's some 12 year old ghetto black kid analysis, most fans aren't in that category

[HBK_Kliq_2]

What is the methodology behind RAPTOR? Is it a math equation and if so what is the equation?



Our ratings, updated daily, use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate each player’s individual plus-minus measurements and wins above replacement, which accounts for playing time

So this stat actually measures impact, as much as any stat could I guess. The "BPM" stat is just based on box score number (so 2017 westbrook would be goat level in that stat). The "RAPTOR" stat seems to judge\rate by impact a lot more then just about any basketball reference or ESPN stat.

[Xiao Yao You]

Watching the games primarily, I would imagine

I haven't watched a game in years but I know who the best players are. I'm a bball savant though. For the average person you have to watch games to know

I do know that ppg and triple doubles aren't something people are using as their primary source of judgment. That's some 12 year old ghetto black kid analysis, most fans aren't in that category

Donovan Mitchell is generally called the Jazz best player and that can only be from ppg, hype and highlites. The reality is certainly a lot different

[Real Men Wear Green]

So this stat actually measures impact, as much as any stat could I guess. The "BPM" stat is just based on box score number (so 2017 westbrook would be goat level in that stat). The "RAPTOR" stat seems to judge\rate by impact a lot more then just about any basketball reference or ESPN stat.It doesn't seem to have any specific basis at all going by that quote.
Our ratings, updated daily, use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate each player’s individual plus-minus measurements and wins above replacement, which accounts for playing timeThat tells you nothing about a player whatsoever. The top 10 in your OP includes Conlet, Batum and Collins. Three tenths of that top 10 are undoubtedly not top 10 in real life. Mike Conley is not the best point guard in the NBA. These three aren't even going to make the All-Star game.

[Xiao Yao You]

It doesn't seem to have any specific basis at all going by that quote. That tells you nothing about a player whatsoever. The top 10 in your OP includes Conlet, Batum and Collins. Three tenths of that top 10 are undoubtedly not top 10 in real life. Mike Conley is not the best point guard in the NBA. These three aren't even going to make the All-Star game.

Conley is deserving of his first all star game at the moment. Been the best player on the best team