So Biden is trying to get the 15 dollar federal minimum wage passed w/ Covid stimulus

[rawimpact]

Even if this is laddered to 15/hr it's going to take years before small businesses recover. The only ones that are going to be able to absorb this hit are corps and large profit franchises. According to bloomberg

in seattle where they passed steady increase to 15hr min

Wages increased by less than hours decreased, so the hike to $13 reduced the earnings of low-wage workers by an average of $125 per month. In a subsequent paper, these economists found (https://evans.uw.edu/wp-content/uploads/files/w25182.pdf) that the gains from the wage hike accrued to more experienced workers.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-01-20/-15-minimum-wage-subverts-biden-covid-19-recovery-plan

Lots of laying off/per diem going to be happening

[~primetime~]

yeah IDK...hard thing to calculate TBH...don't think anyone here could do the math on the effectiveness of this...there are definitely plus and minuses...not a black and white issue

I can see that Walmart and Target both start at $12/hr...so that right there is a shit ton of employees that will now suddenly get $15

Grocery store chains like Kroger and Tom Thumb can start at $10/hr...so huge boost to all those workers as well


Amazon on the other hand already had a min wage $15/hr...so this effects them none

[JohnnySic]

A lot of small businesses wont be able to pay $15/hr and will close, funneling more business to the Walmarts and Amazons. Wealth transfer continues unabated.

[BigKobeFan]

Democrats are low iq

I went to mcdonalds yesterday for a mcflurry and large fries. Cost me $8. Thanks california

[rawimpact]

Democrats are low iq

I went to mcdonalds yesterday for a mcflurry and large fries. Cost me $8. Thanks california

I dont understand why they want to slip in so much shit into the stimulus bills. Why do the dems care more about gender studies in pakistan over the livelihood of Americans in the US in present time?

[Doomsday Dallas]

A lot of small businesses wont be able to pay $15/hr and will close, funneling more business to the Walmarts and Amazons. Wealth transfer continues unabated.

This.

Big Corporations can afford it... Small Businesses can't.

another L for "we the people"

[~primetime~]

It's really hard to say...the millions of workers at large corporations now suddenly having more money will undoubtedly boost the economy...might even lead to more spending at small businesses.

It helps close the retarded wealth gap...it is taking money from the Walmart CEOs of the world and putting that money in the hands of those who need it.

And the Walmart CEOs of the world are richer than they have ever been right now, they are swimming in money...basically all of that stimulus money funneled directly to them.

[Doomsday Dallas]

It's really hard to say...the millions of workers at large corporations now suddenly having more money will undoubtedly boost the economy...might even lead to more spending at small businesses.

It helps close the retarded wealth gap...it is taking money from the Walmart CEOs of the world and putting that money in the hands of those who need it.

And the Walmart CEOs of the world are richer than they have ever been right now, they are swimming in money...basically all of that stimulus money funneled directly to them.


Walmart CEO's of the world just hire less people. Very simple solution. Less employees, more work for those that are still employed.

unemployment goes up when you raise the minimum wage.

[BigKobeFan]

Walmart CEO's of the world just hire less people. Very simple solution. Less employees, more work for those that are still employed.

unemployment goes up when you raise the minimum wage.

yup...or the lowly level employees go on part time so that way they can still leech off the government.

[ZenMaster]

I don't think you can legislate minimum wage and have it work.

Is there a provision for inflation? Or will people get a raise and then in 2025 they're back to making equal of what $10 is today?

[rawimpact]

It's really hard to say...the millions of workers at large corporations now suddenly having more money will undoubtedly boost the economy...might even lead to more spending at small businesses.

It helps close the retarded wealth gap...it is taking money from the Walmart CEOs of the world and putting that money in the hands of those who need it.

And the Walmart CEOs of the world are richer than they have ever been right now, they are swimming in money...basically all of that stimulus money funneled directly to them.

Walmart CEOs wont lose any money with these changes, it's their employees that will. How do you think the small businesses will cope with this considering the last 11 months they've had? Especially in blue states... I read CA is suppose to be opening up today

[Patrick Chewing]

It's really hard to say...the millions of workers at large corporations now suddenly having more money will undoubtedly boost the economy...might even lead to more spending at small businesses.

It helps close the retarded wealth gap...it is taking money from the Walmart CEOs of the world and putting that money in the hands of those who need it.

And the Walmart CEOs of the world are richer than they have ever been right now, they are swimming in money...basically all of that stimulus money funneled directly to them.

How does it help small businesses when they're all closed?

[Patrick Chewing]

Walmart CEOs wont lose any money with these changes, it's their employees that will. How do you think the small businesses will cope with this considering the last 11 months they've had? Especially in blue states... I read CA is suppose to be opening up today

He seriously thinks that the CEO's of this country are just going to sit there and watch their personal yearly earnings just continuously decrease year over year. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

If the minimum wage had risen with inflation it’d be like 22.50 rn and you idiots are whining about 15.

[BigKobeFan]

you do realize you can pass on the cost right? that's what i would do...:confusedshrug:

i see it like davis bacon wage jobs, you transfer on the labor cost as part of the overall product or service price. is it going to raise prices of everything? well...uhh yeah, but we're already there without significant wage increases. internet bill is $100+, electricity is $200 in winter, about $450 in summer. rent went from $1450 to $1650 during covid, inflation has been happening and the wages haven't kept up with it. this would bridge that gap a bit.

bring it on i say. i'd rather make 40% profit carrying $15/min. i start my workers at $16-17 anyhow. this just gives me a reason to pad on more overhead.

The low IQ have spoken...passing on the cost. You do know your $15 is worthless if everything else raises right. The rich has multiple ways to generate money, the poor, they have 1 job that they usually are not even good at.

[BigKobeFan]

lol, didn't even read the comment, not surprising coming from an australian though.

inflation already has been occurring.

did you know that on certain government jobs, an act called "davis bacon wage act" dictates minimum wages right? for example, on a project where this act applies, i have to pay a laborer $14.05/hr.

shit already has been going on. propaganda is what the right spreads "if we raise it to 15, oh no, everything will be worthless!" while they leave out the fact that this shit has been going on for ever. do you know what a union is? there are union heavy regions of the country that far outpay $15/hr. if i was in a union like in chicago, i'd have to pay my workers a package worth $80/hr or more. have those wages caused their money to be absolutely worthless? :facepalm

Explain to me how my Mcdonalds McFlurry and Fries cost me $8?

It didn't cost this much before the $15 hike.

Australian this Australian that. Thats the only thing you and your 15 alts know how to say.

[ZenMaster]

you do realize you can pass on the cost right? that's what i would do...:confusedshrug:

i see it like davis bacon wage jobs, you transfer on the labor cost as part of the overall product or service price. is it going to raise prices of everything? well...uhh yeah, but we're already there without significant wage increases. internet bill is $100+, electricity is $200 in winter, about $450 in summer. rent went from $1450 to $1650 during covid, inflation has been happening and the wages haven't kept up with it. this would bridge that gap a bit.

bring it on i say. i'd rather make 40% profit carrying $15/min. i start my workers at $16-17 anyhow. this just gives me a reason to pad on more overhead.

It's funny how this issue is presented as a big deal, something that will be the answer for inequality.
Like you say, it's only bridges the gap a bit. Inflation will also continue again afterwards with no proper solution in sight for the long term. It's a waste of time in the overall scheme of things, which is why countries with high minimum wage levels don't legislate this magic number.

[~primetime~]

He seriously thinks that the CEO's of this country are just going to sit there and watch their personal yearly earnings just continuously decrease year over year. :oldlol:

decrease?:lol...go take a look at Walmart's and Amazon's stock...the large corporations could probably pay their employees $30/hr and still have increased earnings this year

Covid has been the best thing to ever happen to large corporations...they aren't hurting

[rawimpact]

i don't think it's the answer for inequality, but cost of living is becoming absurd when you consider the minimum wage. just trying to make a point that a slightly, more livable wage may not be such a bad thing.

Your example doesnt even apply to most mom and pop shops. How many of them are paying their employees 16/hr? Additionally, most small businesses have been hurt the most from COVID so the timing cannot be worse.

[warriorfan]

decrease?:lol...go take a look at Walmart's and Amazon's stock...the large corporations could probably pay their employees $30/hr and still have increased earnings this year

Covid has been the best thing to ever happen to large corporations...they aren't hurting

So let’s raise minimum wage to 30$ and bury small businesses even further?

[~primetime~]

So let’s raise minimum wage to 30$ and bury small businesses even further?

I didn't say that...I am pointing out that big corp CEOs have made a killing

[rawimpact]

increase prices to the end customer? find a way to reduce labor through more efficient practices? create a virtual presence? market to a more premium demographic? even if this minimum wage doesn't go through, a lot of those mom and pop shops have been dying or have already closed up bc they couldn't compete even with current minimum wages, and it wasn't because of the federal min wages. that's an entirely different discussion however. point is, they were already on that trajectory, covid just accelerated that.

there's local restaurant chains that charge a premium, about twice what a national fast food franchise would charge and they seem to be doing pretty well.

Okay so you see the irony in offering a stimulus to our economy while also including a section that will "...accelerate..." the closing of businesses

You don't invest in efficiency in a time when you're struggling to survive bc of state laws. Most efficiencies require investments in either technology or training. With Biden now offering unemployment for those who do not want to work bc of fear of getting covid many will seek unemployment versus work, including the already trained workforce.


President Joe Biden is calling on the Department of Labor to make this clear: Workers are entitled to refuse employment that jeopardizes their health, without sacrificing unemployment benefits.

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-fear-unemployment-benefits/

[rawimpact]

I didn't say that...I am pointing out that big corp CEOs have made a killing

No one is talking about the impact on corporations because it will have little effect on them. The purpose of this thread is what it will do to struggling small businesses which you've yet to speak on.

[warriorfan]

No one is talking about the impact on corporations because it will have little effect on them. The purpose of this thread is what it will do to struggling small businesses which you've yet to speak on.

His argument that huge corporations can absorb it easily proves that it will only add to the current problem of them swallowing up already struggling small businesses.

[rawimpact]

His argument that huge corporations can absorb it easily proves that it will only add to the current problem of them swallowing up already struggling small businesses.

Remember when Obama said this


“Small Businesses have always formed the backbone of the American economy. These entrepreneurial pioneers embody the spirit of possibility, the tireless work ethic, and the simple hope for something better that lies at the heart of the American ideal,” said President Barack Obama. “The problem is, our small businesses have been some of the hardest hit by this recession. There’s no question that the steps we’ve taken have improved the overall climate for small businesses across the country, but there is more we need to do. And that’s why today, we’re announcing new steps to support more lending to America’s small businesses—steps that will lead to more jobs, more growth, and a stronger economic recovery.”
Source: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/realitycheck/the-press-office/president-obama-announces-new-small-business-lending-initiatives

What happened? Small businesses dont matter anymore?

Obama's Treasury Sec.:


“America will not recover until our small businesses recover. In communities across the country, they are the engines of job growth and lead the way to the industries of the future. While we have made progress stabilizing the financial system, we need to do more to help small businesses get the credit they need to grow and hire. The President’s announcement today has a simple goal: help small businesses by helping the community banks whose business it is to serve them," said Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner.
Source: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/realitycheck/the-press-office/president-obama-announces-new-small-business-lending-initiatives

[coin24]

Pretty stupid if you can’t see the big companies will just raise prices and lay off a few staff, cost absorbed..
Small business will cop it, then again your minimum wage is that of a third world countries and your tipping system is idiotic..
But yeah, world leaders:oldlol:

[~primetime~]

No one is talking about the impact on corporations because it will have little effect on them. The purpose of this thread is what it will do to struggling small businesses which you've yet to speak on.

I acknowledged that this isn't a black an white issue...there will be some biz negatively effected

But like I said it is REALLY hard to calculate if the pluses out weigh the minuses or vice-versa (especially for any of us)

My gut (trying to be unbiased) opinion is that the pluses will out weight the minuses...if it gives a huge boost to the economy then the small business will gain regardless

[rawimpact]

I acknowledged that this isn't a black an white issue...there will be some biz negatively effected

But like I said it is REALLY hard to calculate if the pluses out weigh the minuses or vice-versa (especially for any of us)

My gut (trying to be unbiased) opinion is that the pluses will out weight the minuses...if it gives a huge boost to the economy then the small business will gain regardless

How the hell is a gut opinion unbias? Like what does that even mean? What pluses are you referring to as 800 small businesses close their doors permanently each day?

Source: https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/verify-800-small-businesses-closing-a-day/507-1d1f6f90-c558-4307-b5eb-c02b420505f2

[~primetime~]

How the hell is a gut opinion unbias? Like what does that even mean? What pluses are you referring to as 800 small businesses close their doors permanently each day?

Source: https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/verify-800-small-businesses-closing-a-day/507-1d1f6f90-c558-4307-b5eb-c02b420505f2

An unbiased feeling? It means trying to be honest about what I think will happen vs what I want to happen. :confusedshrug:


not hard to see bias in here...all the Trumpers all think this is a bad move

[rawimpact]

An unbiased feeling? It means trying to be honest about what I think will happen vs what I want to happen. :confusedshrug:


not hard to see bias in here...all the Trumpers all think this is a bad move

Why are you jumping around the question, what are the PROs of having a federal minimum wage increase as part of an economy stimulus?
Enlighten us with more than a 'gut feeling' because there's nothing more baseless

Maybe it's a good move, I don't know... I've already mentioned why I feel it's bad. Tell us why you think the opposite...

[warriorfan]

Why are you jumping around the question, what are the PROs of having a federal minimum wage increase as part of an economy stimulus?
Enlighten us with more than a 'gut feeling' because there's nothing more baseless

Maybe it's a good move, I don't know... I've already mentioned why I feel it's bad. Tell us why you think the opposite...

Primetime approaches politics like a shitty blackjack player.

[~primetime~]

Why are you jumping around the question, what are the PROs of having a federal minimum wage increase as part of an economy stimulus?
Enlighten us with more than a 'gut feeling' because there's nothing more baseless

Maybe it's a good move, I don't know... I've already mentioned why I feel it's bad. Tell us why you think the opposite...

I already have

The pluses would be millions of workers getting a pay raise thus having more money to spend thus giving the economy the boost it needs to sustain small biz better....taking the money from wealthy CEOs and putting it in the hands of their underpaid workers is basically forcing more money into circulation which benefits ALL of us, even small biz.

Unemployment is shrinking btw

[~primetime~]

Also should be pointed out that many economists are predicting a roaring 20s type situation as covid dwindles away. Just like following the 1918 pandemic.

Following pandemics people go out and spend their asses off...thus causing an economic boom, everyone wins, big or small.

Travel/vacation industry is going to absolutely explode


and if that comes to light, $15 min wage debate will seem meaningless

[~primetime~]

A more simple break down would be this:

Joe Schmo who works at Walmart now makes $15/hr vs $12/hr...so NOW Joe spends more money at his local privately owned dive bar down the road.

That small privately owned dive bar profited directly from Joe's min wage increase.




What is hard to calculate is if that dive bar is getting enough of an increase to now pay their own workers $15/hr

[Doomsday Dallas]

So again... like we said earlier... now that the Walmart CEO's of the nation have to pay increased taxes, and an increase on their payroll.... they are going to cut back on their man hours.

If a store has 40 employees making $10-$12 an hour.

they will soon have 30-35 employees making $15 an hour instead.

so while most folks will be getting a pay raise, a small percentage will be losing their job.



As far as small business go... wasn't there a car wash example that went viral not too long ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fsVI3EmUnQ&t=355s

[~primetime~]

So again... like we said earlier... now that the Walmart CEO's of the nation have to pay increased taxes, and an increase on their payroll.... they are going to cut back on their man hours.

If a store has 40 employees making $10-$12 an hour.

they will soon have 30-35 employees making $15 an hour instead.

so while most folks will be getting a pay raise, a small percentage will be losing their job.



As far as small business go... wasn't there a car wash example that went viral not too long ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fsVI3EmUnQ&t=355s

Walmart type biz may lay off a small amount in the short term...but they are not in the mind set of "shrinking"...they GROW GROW GROW

If Walmart wants to compete with Amazon (who already pays $15) they can't afford huge layoffs

[ZenMaster]

i don't think it's the answer for inequality, but cost of living is becoming absurd when you consider the minimum wage. just trying to make a point that a slightly, more livable wage may not be such a bad thing.

Not you as an individual, but the people you vote for pretend that this is the answer. For how many years now has this been discussed now?

Here's a realization, the current system with the current politicians has already failed. Money and information has been consolidated at the hands of a small group of people, who also make it possible for politicians to acquire hundreds of millions of dollars on the side. That's why we're discussing these short term patch solutions as something serious, because the real solutions aren't even on the table and no one is going to put them there.

[diamenz]

this is why we have a do-nothing congress - because every bill gets stuffed with partisan pork or purposefully becomes a poison pill bill. if these incompetent toons want to get some real work done, bring up standalone bills for votes in order to put congressmen on the spot so everyone knows where they stand.

where are those $2,000 oops, now $1400 checks that were going to go out "immediately"? bring them up for a standalone vote. i think it's only fair that it is considering seventy something percent of americans support those checks. sixty-something percent of americans also support a pandemic ubi, but we'd rather rather spend that money moving troops into syria, sending four billion to south america or 'spreading democracy' in venezuela.

[ZenMaster]

this is why we have a do-nothing congress - because every bill gets stuffed with partisan pork or purposefully becomes a poison pill bill. if these incompetent toons want to get some real work done, bring up standalone bills for votes in order to put congressmen on the spot so everyone knows where they stand.

where are those $2,000 oops, now $1400 checks that were going to go out "immediately"? bring them up for a standalone vote. i think it's only fair that it is considering seventy something percent of americans support those checks. sixty-something percent of americans also support a pandemic ubi, but we'd rather rather spend that money moving troops into syria, sending four billion to south america or 'spreading democracy' in venezuela.

I thought today about all the money they want to send to Egypt when I saw this today.


https://youtu.be/ON5QRDjuT-I

[BigKobeFan]

A more simple break down would be this:

Joe Schmo who works at Walmart now makes $15/hr vs $12/hr...so NOW Joe spends more money at his local privately owned dive bar down the road.

That small privately owned dive bar profited directly from Joe's min wage increase.




What is hard to calculate is if that dive bar is getting enough of an increase to now pay their own workers $15/hr

Hahaha. Its as simple as an increase in 3 dollars to spend elsewhere

[Cleverness]

1) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsofyQ6UYAQw25B?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsofyQ6UYAQw25B?format=jpg&name=medium

2) Why do we need the same minimum wage in Selma AL, Ennis MT, and San Diego CA? It doesn't make sense.

3) Anyone else here start working at 14 years old? Do you think you were worth $15/hr when you got your first job? I don't think many teenagers 14-17 years old are worth $15/hr.

[SATAN]

CEOS aren't worth millions either, dipshit.

[Patrick Chewing]

You unemployed loser monkeys need to put yourselves in my shoes. I run a small business, but guess what, I'm the only one working there. I work six days a week with 9-10 hour days.

To pay someone $15 an hour just so I can get an extra day off is stupid. Plus, no one is going to work for me if I'm only offering them only one day a week.

But do the math. 10 hours x $15 = $150

Average part-time employment is right around 30-35 hours.

30 hours x $15 = $450

That's $450 a week.

$450 x 4 weeks = $1800

Some small businesses cannot afford this, especially if they are needing to hire more than one person down the road.

[~primetime~]

US defines small biz as sub 250 employees

A one man show is just you being "self employed"...under 6 employees is a "micro-business"

[Doomsday Dallas]

yeah IDK...hard thing to calculate TBH...don't think anyone here could do the math on the effectiveness of this...there are definitely plus and minuses...not a black and white issue

chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf


From the governments own projections courtesy of The CBO:

“ According to a recent nonpartisan analysis by the Congressional Budget Office, President Biden's effort to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 per hour is estimated to kill as many as 3.7 million jobs, “

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1281531/pg1

[~primetime~]

https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/HSKFN2HKBEYBHBIVDR6KVTIVBM.jpg

^^^ this

is why this:

https://media.bespokepremium.com/uploads/2020/02/021820-Presidents.png

https://www.asymptosis.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/CHeQhvLWcAAvfRA-1.png



stop looking for reasons for people to get paid less...yes a small % might get laid off...but in the long run it's worth it...for the economy to run it needs us to have more money

[rawimpact]

My sister in law is expecting soon and is hoping Biden's unemployment benefits get applied to her even though she was planning on maternity leave.

Such a dumb move...

If you're scared of the virus, please stay home, we'll offer to pay you. But lets stimulate our economy okay?

[Patrick Chewing]

US defines small biz as sub 250 employees

A one man show is just you being "self employed"...under 6 employees is a "micro-business"

What's the difference? It still affects me. Even moreso.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.asymptosis.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/CHeQhvLWcAAvfRA-1.png


you also have to take into consideration Democratic policies on State by State basis

https://vdare.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/leaving.png



I mean yea... California has a massive economy... but they also have a massive amount of tent cities.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8d/f0/a9/8df0a98288ffd49cb37b7a4e5de639aa.jpg

[~primetime~]

^^^ Cali housing prices are still going up even today through covid...showing that the extreme wealthy are still moving in...thus pricing everyone else out and forcing the "middle" to either flee the state or become homeless. Resulting in a state full of extreme rich mixed with extreme poor.

It is no wonder why the residents there are screaming for socialism....Seattle is similar

IMO Cali is more a victim of wealthy pricing everyone out than it is a victim of it's policies....but I'm sure Trumpers disagree

[BigKobeFan]

^^^ Cali housing prices are still going up even today through covid...showing that the extreme wealthy are still moving in...thus pricing everyone else out and forcing the "middle" to either flee the state or become homeless. Resulting in a state full of extreme rich mixed with extreme poor.

It is no wonder why the residents there are screaming for socialism....Seattle is similar

IMO Cali is more a victim of wealthy pricing everyone out than it is a victim of it's policies....but I'm sure Trumpers disagree

That has more to do with shortages and under development. Cali has state wide rent control laws that prohibit landlords from raising prices. So guess what, no new buildings for you

People there are also priced out. Its not like they can move to a different house regardless, unless they decide to move out of state. This doesnt happen all that often so people stay in their house and ask for more and more money to make up the difference to moving out.

And ewhat is socialism going to solve? Definitely not housing problems.

[rawimpact]

LOL @ housing prices meaning wealthy moving in.

No, it's because banks are offering crazy deals with the fed interest rate.

You can buy a million dollar home with 50k down @ 2.5%

[Doomsday Dallas]

IMO Cali is more a victim of wealthy pricing everyone out than it is a victim of it's policies....but I'm sure Trumpers disagree

so.... 13.3% state income tax has nothing to do with it? Highest in the country.

https://6f45g2d4rjnipqbg27qcdg1a-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/PIT-2020-dv2-01-1024x863.png

[Doomsday Dallas]

And wouldn't major businesses and corporations be turned off by California's 18% corporate tax?

https://files.taxfoundation.org/20180226195449/CIT2018-CAscenario.png

[~primetime~]

wouldn't you not say that high state tax is a reflection of so many wealthy people living there?

You can point to this and that, and I will say I do think Cali has handled covid like shit...but at the end of the day we wouldn't have their wealth gap issues in Dallas because we don't have breath taking scenery and beaches combined with perfect weather.

[rawimpact]

California is screwed, so many people are leaving that place. As someone who grew up in Socal I'm glad to be out.

Sylvester Stallone is the most recent I know of moving out of that hell hole.

Hopefully CA has not implemented the Leave Cali and Pay tax

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2019/12/03/leave-california-keep-paying-california-taxesreally/?sh=5510cc3c4042

[~primetime~]

If everyone (wealthy included) is truly fleeing then that *should* result in a housing market crash...and maybe Cali is headed to that, but currently the housing market is rising and the only thing that could support rising values is DEMAND, no matter what interest rates are.

[Doomsday Dallas]

wouldn't you not say that high state tax is a reflection of so many wealthy people living there?

You can point to this and that, and I will say I do think Cali has handled covid like shit...but at the end of the day we wouldn't have their wealth gap issues in Dallas because we don't have breath taking scenery and beaches combined with perfect weather.

I'd be more inclined to say that democratic policies have wiped out the middle class in a place with breath taking scenery and beaches combined with perfect weather.

If your goal is to help the little guy... which is basically the Democratic motto... then California has it backwards.

[rawimpact]

Here's a complete list of U-Haul's 2020 state migration growth rankings:Tennessee
Texas
Florida
Ohio
Arizona
Colorado
Missouri
Nevada
North Carolina
Georgia
Arkansas
Indiana
Wisconsin
Oklahoma
South Carolina
West Virginia
Utah
Kentucky
Montana
Minnesota
Kansas
Alabama
New Hampshire
Iowa
South Dakota
Vermont
Delaware
Virginia
Maine
Idaho
Mississippi
Nebraska
Wyoming
Alaska
Rhode Island
Washington
North Dakota
Washington, D.C.*
New Mexico
Michigan
Pennsylvania
New York
Connecticut
Louisiana
Oregon
Maryland
Massachusetts
New Jersey
Illinois
California


Source: https://www.ktvu.com/news/study-confirms-california-exodus-with-more-people-leaving-the-state-despite-the-pandemic

So are more people leaving Blue states? Why? I thought they were great places to live?
I'm actually surprised to see Oregon so far down on the list.

[~primetime~]

If your goal is to help the little guy... which is basically the Democratic motto... then California has it backwards.

So what should they do tax rich people nothing and then have no money to give "the little guy"?

the only people that get that high tax 13% rate you posted are the highest income brackets...rich people.

[Patrick Chewing]

But it would be stupid if these dumbass Liberals that are leaving these Liberal states keep voting Blue in the new states they move into. Like....you're still not getting it.

[rawimpact]

So what should they do tax rich people nothing and then have no money to give "the little guy"?

the only people that get that high tax 13% rate you posted are the highest income brackets...rich people.

You're not going to tax a rich guy, EVER. They are not dumb, they'll just move like Elon, Oracle, HP Etc. to another state or even to another country like some manufacturers. You need to incentivize large companies like CA did for such a long time before the Dems took over trying to do what you're suggesting. That keeps high paying jobs in the state which are taxed at a higher bracket.

Same for the country itself. We give so much tax incentives for Amazon etc. to stay in the USA, many of them don't even pay taxes. But the jobs they employ in the US surely pay income tax, and their employers pay employee payroll taxes.

[~primetime~]

Musk moved to Austin...a city that literally leans left harder than any city in Cali not named San Fran.

Austin a tech hub is soaking up lots of Cali refugees...Dallas has been a hub for Cali peeps forever...I've worked with dozens of coworkers from Silicon Valley...they ALWAYS say they left Cali because they couldn't afford to live there.

[rawimpact]

Musk moved to Austin...a city that literally leans left harder than any city in Cali not named San Fran.

Austin a tech hub is soaking up lots of Cali refugees...Dallas has been a hub for Cali peeps forever...I've worked with dozens of coworkers from Silicon Valley...they ALWAYS say they left Cali because they couldn't afford to live there...never heard them blame it on leftist policies and they are always left leaning people.

Austin is a city... how much is Austin taxing Elon? In fact, they gave Elon a ten year tax abatement and total tax benefit of 100 million

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/08/07/elon-musk-got-millions-tax-breaks-put-plant-austin-heres-why-laws-dont-stop-these-secret-deals/

Do you think Austin did this because of the goodness of their heart? No, they did this because Elon will generate them $$$. At some point some moron in Austin/Travis County is going to get elected and go after Elon and the cycle starts over.

You will never listen because you're never wrong. One will never tax the 1%, they are not dummies...

[~primetime~]

Musk could have very well left for tax breaks and I agree with most of that post, but my point was that he isn't making efforts to get away from the left...he moved to one of the bluest cities in the country.

[rawimpact]

Musk could have very well left for tax breaks and I agree with most of that post, but my point was that he isn't making efforts to get away from the left...he moved to one of the bluest cities in the country.

Who said Elon is running from the LEFT? He's running away from policies that target him and other big businesses which generally speaking are blue states. He still has to create a good, desirable working environment for the specialized/skilled employees that work for him.

The tax benefits Travis County gave him is not something democrats would stand for, but they did. Obviously leaning left versus making left leaning policies are two different things.

[Patrick Chewing]

He's running away from taxes brought on by the Left. Just because he moves to a Liberal city, it doesn't mean it's business as usual.

Austin is like the nerd table you sit at when you move to another school. You know you're out of your element as a whole, but that table (Austin) looks familiar and doesn't look as menacing.

[~primetime~]

If he was fleeing Cali because he hates leftist policies...he moved to the wrong city IMO

HIS story is that he was broken over covid polices...Tesla factories were shut down

[rawimpact]

If he was fleeing Cali because he hates leftist policies...he moved to the wrong city IMO

HIS story is that he was broken over covid polices...Tesla factories were shut down

How? When have the LEFT given tax incentives for the rich or upper middle class? I mean isn't that one of the things they're against?

I'm sure california's tax rate going from 13% to 16% had a huge play in this.


The city government has high ratings (http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/sites/default/files/docs/pdf/showusthelocalsubsidies.pdf) for willingly providing information; only last year, Travis County announced (https://www.kut.org/post/travis-county-temporarily-stops-tax-break-incentive-program-companies) it would stop using economic development incentives. However, county officials unanimously voted to change this rule for Tesla, while later publicly bemoaning (https://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/2020/07/travis-county-approves-tesla-incentive-deal/) their own lapse in transparency.

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/08/07/elon-musk-got-millions-tax-breaks-put-plant-austin-heres-why-laws-dont-stop-these-secret-deals/

Again, Lean LEFT but do not make RIGHT-leaning policies


“I think folks have been complaining about California's hostile business environment for decades, and that certainly hasn't prevented the state from being one of the biggest economies in the world and attracting entrepreneurs and businesses for decades,” said Molly Turner, who studies the interface of technology, urban policy and economic development at UC Berkeley’s Haas School of Business.


Read the article I posted, talks exactly about how democrats in cali have ruined the state and how austin did the opposite (incentivized big business) to bring them in

[~primetime~]

Like you just said about the "cycle starting over"...if his fear really is leftist policies, he wouldn't have moved to one of the bluest cities in the country IMO

[~primetime~]

I believe his story...he moved because of Cali's covid stances which shut his factories down.

although...covid is the greatest thing to ever happen to Musk in reality...as he passes Bezos to be the richest man on the planet

[rawimpact]

Like you just said about the "cycle starting over"...if his fear really is leftist policies, he wouldn't have moved to one of the bluest cities in the country IMO

We're referring to state laws.

And yeah, i'm sure elon's going to go on the record and say I moved because of taxes.

He literally went from California being a high personal income tax state to Tx with a no personal income tax state

[~primetime~]

At some point some moron in Austin/Travis County is going to get elected and go after Elon and the cycle starts over.

^^^ if Musk was trying to flee "left policies" he would be scared of "the cycle starting over again"....like YOU are saying

[rawimpact]

^^^ if Musk was trying to flee "left policies" he would be scared of "the cycle starting over again"....like YOU are saying

Right, but these are STATE LAWS. What are you not understanding? In California, California State Laws like taxes have costed him millions.

What I was referring to in that post was the tax abatement that Travis County gave Elon, that has absolutely nothing to do with STATE personal income tax.

[rawimpact]

BTW

Why are you not upset at the County of Travis for giving tax breaks to the rich corps? I mean you are a democrat right? So far they've shown to be more republican with these 'secret' incentives to lure big business.

[~primetime~]

Jesus Christ with an AK47...I understand that YOU are talking about state laws...what I am saying (me not you) is that I dont think Musk would flee to one of the bluest cities in the country if he was trying to evade blue policies...even if they are not there currently, he would fear it would go back to that.

You guys like to use Musk as your Anti-Left Mascot...like he road off to Texas in his MAGA hat and Cowboy boots...but that's not really what happened here

[rawimpact]

Jesus Christ with an AK47...I understand that YOU are talking about state laws...what I am saying (me not you) is that I dont think Musk would flee to one of the bluest cities in the country if he was trying to evade blue policies...even if they are not there currently, he would fear it would go back to that.

You guys like to use Musk as your Anti-Left Mascot...like he road off to Texas in his MAGA hat and Cowboy boots...but that's not really what happened here


Of course it is, he and all the ultra-rich Hollywood stars are fleeing CA like the plague for RED states. As I posted before, Sylvester Stallone listed his home two days ago and is moving to Florida.


Democrats in the California state legislature this week proposed a tax hike on the state’s highest earners to help pay for schools and services hurt by the pandemic.

The proposal would raise taxes on California millionaires, and result in a top tax rate of nearly 54% for federal and state taxes for the highest earners.
The plan follows proposals in New York state to raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for a widening budget deficit.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/30/tax-hike-on-california-millionaires-would-create-54percent-tax-rate.html

Even amongst the non-rich, thousands are moving out of Blue states see my previous post.

BTW it's not an AK47

[ZenMaster]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Esq8YfFXYAEnQ1B?format=png&name=medium

https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/1354101885058297856

[~primetime~]

So it's a gradual increase from $7 to $15 over a 5 year span

not bad IMO...heard immunity should be achieved before it hits $11 giving small biz time to regroup

[rawimpact]

https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/1354101885058297856


Time for those on the fence purchasing a home to get onboard. I doubt it'll pass though, I can't imagine every democrat will be on board with the timing of things.

We'll see.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Time for those on the fence purchasing a home to get onboard. I doubt it'll pass though, I can't imagine every democrat will be on board with the timing of things.

We'll see.

If it does pass... the unemployment rate will go up. I won't say it will skyrocket, but it will definitely go up.

People in that twitter link saying it should be $25.00... my God.

hopefully there will be plenty of Corporate and Government jobs available, because small businesses won't be providing much.

[paksat]

yeah IDK...hard thing to calculate TBH...don't think anyone here could do the math on the effectiveness of this...there are definitely plus and minuses...not a black and white issue

I can see that Walmart and Target both start at $12/hr...so that right there is a shit ton of employees that will now suddenly get $15

Grocery store chains like Kroger and Tom Thumb can start at $10/hr...so huge boost to all those workers as well


Amazon on the other hand already had a min wage $15/hr...so this effects them none

so we're just gonna use billion dollar companies to gauge this?

how about you start your own lawn service, get enough lawns to the point where you gotta hire another person and then judge it? Because that's how the real world works. You would have to compete with other bill and joe's out there that are willing to do the lawn dirt cheap ( think $25 a cut ) under cutting any profit you may obtain. So now you gotta hire some dumb dumb off the street who probably ain't even worth $10 an hour at 15, and still make a profit.

I have a friend who owns a landscaping service, none of the people there are worth $14 an hour imo let alone 15. Half of them are drug addicts with baby momma issues that prevent them from getting to work a lot of the time. On top of that if you keep an eye on these guys you'll find they're on their phone a quarter of the day not giving a flying fck about the actual yard work. I've thought about this many times and it's laughable that if I were to ever have my own small business, that if it ever got big enough I'd have to pay these morons $15 an hour. That guy is barely making a profit, and now he's gotta add an additional $5 an hour to EVERY worker.

Democrats don't understand math I guess

[paksat]

increase prices to the end customer? find a way to reduce labor through more efficient practices? create a virtual presence? market to a more premium demographic? even if this minimum wage doesn't go through, a lot of those mom and pop shops have been dying or have already closed up bc they couldn't compete even with current minimum wages, and it wasn't because of the federal min wages. that's an entirely different discussion however. point is, they were already on that trajectory, covid just accelerated that.

there's local restaurant chains that charge a premium, about twice what a national fast food franchise would charge and they seem to be doing pretty well.

you must think customers are all rich or something I don't get it personally. Yah your reduced labor is called machines and mcdonalds is ahead of the game on it, companies are definitely finding ways and NONE OF IT benefits the average joe smith ( cutting hours, self service checkouts etc. ).


How the hell is a gut opinion unbias? Like what does that even mean? What pluses are you referring to as 800 small businesses close their doors permanently each day?

Source: https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/verify-800-small-businesses-closing-a-day/507-1d1f6f90-c558-4307-b5eb-c02b420505f2


Lol i'm kinda speechless without trying to be rude... yeh we'll just order the companies to pay more money they don't have to workers who are already broke, while adding on the costs to customers that can't afford it.

what in the fck am I reading. It's like adding a 30-40% tax out of nowhere to most mom and pop places when you order them to pay their workers more without giving them anything to pay them with.. does that make sense? Why don't we just increase your electric bill by 30% and pass on the costs to the uh... customer.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.inc.com/magazine/201603/norm-brodsky/15-minimum-wage-consequences-for-businesses.html

Beware the Consequences of a $15 Minimum WageThose who say raising the minimum wage will have no effect on employment are dreaming.


As most of you probably know, I operate a chain of fast-casual restaurants in New York City called Kobeyaki, which feature Japanese "rolls, bowls, burgers & buns." We employ 45 people in three locations and more than 80 percent of them are hourly--which puts me right smack in the middle of the current debate over the minimum wage.

That debate is raging in New York, where the governor has publicly committed to raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour as soon as he can. (It's currently $9 per hour in New York; the federal minimum is $7.25.) I understand the emotional appeal of such a move, and, like most entrepreneurs, I have no problem paying employees as much as the business can afford. My partners feel the same way. But if $15 per hour becomes our entry-level wage, there will be consequences. We will have to make significant changes to our operations to stay in business. Jobs will be lost.

The reason is simple math. Our restaurants will no longer be viable if labor costs rise above 35 percent of revenue. And no, we can't just jack up prices and pass the additional cost along to customers. There are real limits to what people will pay. We can charge only so much for a shrimp tempura roll or a Kobe beef burger before our customers will start looking at other dining options.

Right now, labor costs in each of our restaurants average about 26 percent of revenue. We're paying the minimum wage for entry-level jobs, such as busboy and dishwasher. Other hourly people get more than that, but none as much as $15 per hour. If the minimum rises, not only will we have to pay more to entry-level people, but everyone above them will have to get a raise as well. You can't pay someone who does food preparation what you pay someone who buses the tables and sweeps the floors.

Don't get me wrong. I would like to be able to pay entry-level people $15 per hour and raise everyone else's wages as well. It's just not feasible. Before the government forces us to do it--as seems likely--we have to take steps to protect both the business and as many jobs as possible.

The first options are to automate and outsource, and we're preparing to do both. Much of the ordering is already automated. We have employees taking and inputting orders right now because human contact is important to building customer relationships. But we'll have to cut back on the number of people doing that job. Customers will have to input their own orders either online or at a console in the restaurant. Nor will we be able to have as many people preparing the food. We prefer to do that ourselves, but we can outsource the work. That will eliminate more jobs and allow us to reduce our labor costs.

I realize that these types of changes will have some negative consequences, both for businesses like mine and for society as a whole. Entry-level, minimum-wage jobs are the first rung on the ladder you have to climb to have a career. In all the businesses I've run, we've recruited people for better-paying, higher-level positions from the entry-level pool. A $15-per-hour wage will put some people on more solid economic ground but at the same time make it harder for thousands of others to find work and get started on a career.

Kobeyaki is not an isolated example. Every business with minimum-wage employees faces the same pressures that we do and will be forced to respond. Those who say raising the minimum wage will have no effect on employment are dreaming.

from 2016...

basically it's common sense.

[~primetime~]

The 5-year plan to gradually implement this will probably barely cover all the inflation that's about to hit from all the covid stimulus.

Biden's 4 year term will be over before it even hits $15

[Doomsday Dallas]

it just seems kind of drastic to go to $15 nationwide by 2025.... but all things considered, it may not destroy us.

I just see unemployment and higher costs as a result... and like the article above stated, everybody will demanding a raise.

If you are currently making $17.00 an hour your argument becomes: "I'm only worth $2.00 more than the bare minimum? I deserve more too"


So, we should be seeing a completely different economy by the end 2024.... $10 bread and $10 milk. $hit like that.

[~primetime~]

it just seems kind of drastic to go to $15 nationwide by 2025.... but all things considered, it may not destroy us.

I just see unemployment and higher costs as a result... and like the article above stated, everybody will demanding a raise.

If you are currently making $17.00 an hour your argument becomes: "I'm only worth $2.00 more than the bare minimum? I deserve more too"


So, we should be seeing a completely different economy by the end 2024.... $10 bread and $10 milk. $hit like that.

Here's the deal though...we ARE all underpaid. Generally speaking, the country as a whole is underpaid. The middle class in Australia is 2x as wealthy as the middle class here in the US.

Odds are if you are someone who is making $60k a year, you probably should be making $90k a year.

Large corporations have gradually become efficient to the point we are all crippled. Meanwhile the 1% is hording retarded amounts of wealth. Their wealth has sky rocketed, our salaries remain the same.

And we are supposed to allow this because we are scared of mom and pop shops closing?...or because we are scared rich people will pick and move to China?....fck that shit, life is too short, time for us to take what's ours.

[oldtimer28]

Here's the deal though...we ARE all underpaid. Generally speaking, the country as a whole is underpaid. The middle class in Australia is 2x as wealthy as the middle class here in the US.

Odds are if you are someone who is making $60k a year, you probably should be making $90k a year.

Large corporations have gradually become efficient to the point we are all crippled. Meanwhile the 1% is hording retarded amounts of wealth. Their wealth has sky rocketed, our salaries remain the same.

And we are supposed to allow this because we are scared of mom and pop shops closing?...or because we are scared rich people will pick and move to China?....fck that shit, life is too short, time for us to take what's ours.

I try to be kind but this is a dumb post. You might be smart but don't understand Australia or economics.

No comparison. You are digging your own grave. Good luck.

[rawimpact]

Here's the deal though...we ARE all underpaid. Generally speaking, the country as a whole is underpaid. The middle class in Australia is 2x as wealthy as the middle class here in the US.

Odds are if you are someone who is making $60k a year, you probably should be making $90k a year.

Large corporations have gradually become efficient to the point we are all crippled. Meanwhile the 1% is hording retarded amounts of wealth. Their wealth has sky rocketed, our salaries remain the same.

And we are supposed to allow this because we are scared of mom and pop shops closing?...or because we are scared rich people will pick and move to China?....fck that shit, life is too short, time for us to take what's ours.

Which group of people own mom and pop shops? Low middle high or 1% level income groups?

Democrats just want to continue to slaughter the middle class.

Yeah who cares if the midde class doesnt exist anymore, atleast the low income group has healthcare that is paid for once they meet their 5,000 out of pocket deductible.