"Lakers are your team AD"

[Airupthere]

This was Lebron's recruitment pitch.

AD is now averaging his lowest PPG and RPG since his first few years in the league. He never was the leader of the Lakers since he joined and after 2 years, it doesn't seem like he's in a strong leadership position now and in the years to come.

[3ball]

Lebron has destroyed this guy

He's taught AD to take the regular season off and be a passive play-finisher (bron-ball)

Without AD dominating, the Lakers can't win

[Airupthere]

Let's call it as it is. AD is utility to Lebron's agenda. He's being diminished same as Love and Bosh before. Lebron-ball does not lead to AD gaining that leadership role for the Lakers if the goal truly is long-term for the Lakers when Lebron hangs it up. This is not what's happening.

[Doranku]

AD was a beast in the playoffs last year. Even with him struggling this year, he's still posting 22/9/4 on 52% every game. Just wait til he hits his groove. The real cause for concern on this Lakers team is Schroder's bum ass.

[jmcwilliams]

These was Lebron's recruitment pitch.

AD is now averaging his lowest PPG and RPG since his first few years in the league. He never was the leader of the Lakers since he joined and after 2 years, it doesn't seem like he's in a strong leadership position now and in the years to come.

I swear you guys are So dim witted sometimes. It's not all About personal stats. If we have learned anything in this new NBA is that you can have guys putting up Monster numbers that Never win A championship. Kevin Love pissed and moaned about having to change his game for the team yet now he has A ring. What has he done since Lebron left? I suppose Love and others like him could have kept putting up Monster numbers so that the stat warriors can sit back in awe and argue that this new guy is Better than Lebron.
It's About what is best for the Team. Playing the role that will WIN the whole thing. Lebron knows what he is doing. How many Rings did AD have before Lebron?
Do you really think that AD would rather have meaningless points per game over winning? No one is stopping AD from scoring anyways. He is always being fed the ball.

Bronball is where Lebron dictates the Pace of the game, everything goes through him and he turns everyone else into spot up shooter sitting cold until his command. The weakness is Bronball is Lebron. If he is having an off night the whole thing crumbles. I'm not A fan of Bronball. It works most of the time, but it fails too often at the highest level. I have seen it crop up A few times this season, but by and Large the Lakers have moved the ball Very well.

[8Ball]

These was Lebron's recruitment pitch.

AD is now averaging his lowest PPG and RPG since his first few years in the league. He never was the leader of the Lakers since he joined and after 2 years, it doesn't seem like he's in a strong leadership position now and in the years to come.

Wrong again.

AD made 1st team All-NBA and 1st team all defence last year.

AD will win DPOY and make 2nd team all-nba this year. AD is anchoring the #1 defence.

[TheGoatest]

https://media.tenor.com/images/7e215f7a2673eb36b509d5142fc2be94/tenor.gif

[Airupthere]

I swear you guys are So dim witted sometimes. It's not all About personal stats. If we have learned anything in this new NBA is that you can have guys putting up Monster numbers that Never win A championship. Kevin Love pissed and moaned about having to change his game for the team yet now he has A ring. What has he done since Lebron left? I suppose Love and others like him could have kept putting up Monster numbers so that the stat warriors can sit back in awe and argue that this new guy is Better than Lebron.
It's About what is best for the Team. Playing the role that will WIN the whole thing. Lebron knows what he is doing. How many Rings did AD have before Lebron?
Do you really think that AD would rather have meaningless points per game over winning? No one is stopping AD from scoring anyways. He is always being fed the ball.

Love and Bosh were done after getting used to being just fed the ball for 4 years. Diminished mentally as I say. I will not be surprised if the same thing happens to AD.

Sure AD has a ring but he is utility. He was recruited for a purpose. But assess how different the pitch is to what actually is happening.

[jmcwilliams]

Love and Bosh were done after getting used to being just fed the ball for 4 years. Diminished mentally as I say. I will not be surprised if the same thing happens to AD.

Sure AD has a ring but he is utility. He was recruited for a purpose. But assess how different the pitch is to what actually is happening.

Bosh had health issues and Love is perpetually hurt. Also, you are painting this picture that somehow playing with Lebron irreparably damages players and they can never recover. WTH are you smoking?
Kyrie still balling? Kyrie can still put up monster numbers but he isn't ever winning A ring unless he plays second fiddle to another Lebron.

[MaxPlayer]

Yeah I'm sure he really misses winning 1 playoff series every 8 years.

[Airupthere]

Wrong again.

AD made 1st team All-NBA and 1st team all defence last year.

AD will win DPOY and make 2nd team all-nba this year. AD is anchoring the #1 defence.

How is it wrong? You can check that AD's numbers are on the decline since he joined LA. How is this in-line to Lebron pitching that if AD comes over, he will be the leader and Lebron will step back?

[Airupthere]

Yeah I'm sure he really misses winning 1 playoff series every 8 years.

He was conned with the prospect that he will lead this team only to be ball-dominated. I'm sure he prefers to have won a ring with a diminished role than not, but that does not take away from the con job/recruitment pitch.

[3ball]

Bosh had health issues and Love is perpetually hurt. Also, you are painting this picture that somehow playing with Lebron irreparably damages players and they can never recover. WTH are you smoking?
Kyrie still balling? Kyrie can still put up monster numbers but he isn't ever winning A ring unless he plays second fiddle to another Lebron.


Larry Hughes averaged 22/6/5 with 1st team defense in 2005 - so lebron was gifted prime pippen stats but destroyed him

Then we saw growth in Ingram's PER, BPM, WS/48 and VORP stopped and reversed for 1 year alongside lebron

Then lebron destroyed Jamison, Bosh, Love, Rose, Crowder and many more

destroyed by lebron

[8Ball]

GOAT gonna GOAT.

AD gonna have to settle for DPOY / All-NBA 2nd team.

[1987_Lakers]

Haters mad that LeBron is still the clear cut best player on the team at age 36. They probably thought AD would overtake him this year and that would give them ammo to shit on LeBron, but nope.

[jmcwilliams]

How is it wrong? You can check that AD's numbers are on the decline since he joined LA. How is this in-line to Lebron pitching that if AD comes over, he will be the leader and Lebron will step back?

Being the leader isnt about having the highest numbers! Good Lord.
Listen to AD mic'd up and tell me he isnt leading this team. He and Lebron Are CO-LEADING and I don't hear either one of them complaining. Just you.

[8Ball]

He was conned with the prospect that he will lead this team only to be ball-dominated. I'm sure he prefers to have won a ring with a diminished role than not, but that does not take away from the con job/recruitment pitch.

Conned? What kind of dumb ass shit is this? He came for championships. Won it year 1 while making All-NBA 1st and All Defensive 1st.

The man then signed a 5 year max contract this off season.

[8Ball]

Haters mad that LeBron is still the clear cut best player on the team at age 36. They probably thought AD would overtake him this year and that would give them ammo to shit on LeBron, but nope.

The game last night from LeBron deleted millions of hours of sleep from Jordan fans last night. :oldlol:

[3ball]

GOAT gonna GOAT.

AD gonna have to settle for DPOY / All-NBA 2nd team.


So lebron is carried by a DPOY... :facepalm:

Jordan had to get top 5 DPOY every year to win (and scoring title)..

So lebron does less to win - aka he doesn't get all-defense and his scoring isn't top 15 - that doesn't compare to scoring champ and top 5 DPOY

[Airupthere]

Haters mad that LeBron is still the clear cut best player on the team at age 36. They probably thought AD would overtake him this year and that would give them ammo to shit on LeBron, but nope.

So you're just happy that Lebron is still at the helm of ball control and not really easing AD into the leadership role for this team?

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron has destroyed this guy

He's taught AD to take the regular season off and be a passive play-finisher (bron-ball)

Without AD dominating, the Lakers can't win
So one minute he's playing like Kareem, the next he's destroyed by LeBron. What a fcking clown :lol

[Airupthere]

Being the leader isnt about having the highest numbers! Good Lord.
Listen to AD mic'd up and tell me he isnt leading this team. He and Lebron Are CO-LEADING and I don't hear either one of them complaining. Just you.

Where the **** is this coleading coming from? I thought this team is carried by Lebron?

[jmcwilliams]

Conned? What kind of dumb ass shit is this? He came for championships. Won it year 1 while making All-NBA 1st and All Defensive 1st.

The man then signed a 5 year max contract this off season.

It's really Amazing isn't it? Lebron promised AD that within two seasons he would get him A ring. He does exactly as promised and these dolts want to sit back and act like Lebron is somehow taking advantage of AD. Kyrie's head got screwed up listening to trifling nonsense like what is spouted on this forum. AD isn't buying into any of that nonsense

[Airupthere]

This is what AD believed at the time: "Like, he tells me, ‘This is your team. This is your time.’ Like, ‘I’m good. If I retired today, I’m fine.’”"

[KingMambaFan]

14-4 Number 1 in the west boys!

[AirBonner]

So one minute he's playing like Kareem, the next he's destroyed by LeBron. What a fcking clown :lol

Depends what week 3ball is bleeding out of his ******

[8Ball]

So lebron is carried by a DPOY... :facepalm:

Jordan had to get top 5 DPOY every year to win (and scoring title)..

So lebron does less to win - aka he doesn't get all-defense and his scoring isn't top 15 - that doesn't compare to scoring champ and top 5 DPOY

LeBron has a Rudy Gobert DPOY playing with him. Big deal.

Scoring champion is useless accolade. Scoring champion hasn't won the championship in 21 years. It's a selfish chucker award.

[8Ball]

This is what AD believed at the time: "Like, he tells me, ‘This is your team. This is your time.’ Like, ‘I’m good. If I retired today, I’m fine.’”"

GOAT gonna GOAT.

AD better fall in line.

[Hey Yo]

He was conned with the prospect that he will lead this team only to be ball-dominated. I'm sure he prefers to have won a ring with a diminished role than not, but that does not take away from the con job/recruitment pitch.
If that's the case and it's so blatantly obvious...... then why did he sign a 5yr contract with LA a few months ago?

[Airupthere]

If that's the case and it's so blatantly obvious...... then why did he sign a 5yr contract with LA a few months ago?

Because some people are sheep and are led to believe something and don't even evaluate the trajectory.

[Airupthere]

GOAT gonna GOAT.

AD better fall in line.

Come over, I will diminish you as I stat pad. And we can win rings along the way with your true value -- kind of shit.

[AirBonner]

LeBron haters seriously thought that this guy was going to be the alpha leader? Lolol

https://i0.wp.com/thebrandedsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/gq5xINh.png?fit=263%2C310&ssl=1&w=144

[Airupthere]

If this is truly the trajectory then poor AD with regards to his long-term career.

If you look at the %share in rpg for Love, Bosh and AD before and while/after playing with Lebron, see below. In bold are years playing with Lebron.

AD %share total team rpg
2015-16 24%
2016-17 27%
2017-18 25%
2018-19 25%
2019-20 20%
2020-21 19%

K. Love %share total team rpg
2010-11 34%
2011-12 30%
2012-13 33%
2013-14 28%
2014-15 23%
2015-16 22%
2016-17 25%
2017-18 22%

C. Bosh %share total team rpg
2006-07 27%
2007-08 22%
2008-09 25%
2009-10 27%
2010-11 20%
2011-12 19%
2012-13 18%
2013-14 18%

This is Lebron's since joining MIA up to now. I would say that is consistent. No drop in share. Who thwarts whose game?

2010-11 18%
2011-12 19%
2012-13 21%
2013-14 19%
2014-15 14%
2015-16 17%
2016-17 20%
2017-18 20%
2018-19 18%
2019-20 17%
2020-21 16%

[Airupthere]

LeBron haters seriously thought that this guy was going to be the alpha leader? Lolol

https://i0.wp.com/thebrandedsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/gq5xINh.png?fit=263%2C310&ssl=1&w=144

He was led to believe so by Lebron so he can come over. That was the recruitment pitch.

[AirBonner]

He was led to believe so by Lebron so he can come over.

Nope. He has a robin personality about him. He had his chance to lead. You are either blind or retarded. Probably both

[Airupthere]

Straight from the horse's mouth

“I’ve always recruited,” James told ESPN’s Rachel Nichols in a sit-down interview that will air Christmas Day at halftime of the Lakers-Golden State Warriors game on ABC. “I’ve been trying to get guys to come play with me since, like, 2007. I’ve got rejected a lot. But I’ve also have not got rejected a lot.”

You wonder then what other pitch this guy had in colluding.

[sdot_thadon]

Guys like Op really beleive AD signed up to play with Lebron expecting him to play like Pippen. Nevermind that even in year 18 he can have games like last night. Let's be real fellas, AD signed up to play with a GOAT candidate, im sure he's happy with the way Lebron has played.

[3ball]

Straight from the horse's mouth

“I’ve always recruited,” James told ESPN’s Rachel Nichols in a sit-down interview that will air Christmas Day at halftime of the Lakers-Golden State Warriors game on ABC. “I’ve been trying to get guys to come play with me since, like, 2007. I’ve got rejected a lot. But I’ve also have not got rejected a lot.”

You wonder then what other pitch this guy had in colluding.


In 2005, Gilbert Arenas won the 1st Round with Larry Hughes as the sidekick (22/6/5 with 1st team defense).

In 2006, Lebron stole Hughes from Arenas and beat Arenas in the 1st Round

So lebron has always been a cheating fraudster

[Airupthere]

Guys like Op really beleive AD signed up to play with Lebron expecting him to play like Pippen. Nevermind that even in year 18 he can have games like last night. Let's be real fellas, AD signed up to play with a GOAT candidate, im sure he's happy with the way Lebron has played.

Then AD deserves to be diminished for being a beta.

I'm just out here to point out the "pitch" to get people that Lebron can use. Seeing AD's potential but beta mindset, I guess it didn't really matter what Lebron said.

Still this is an insight as to what Lebron might usually have as a pitch in his past collusion. The discontinuity between what he would say vs what he would allow to happen.

[Airupthere]

In 2005, Gilbert Arenas won the 1st Round with Larry Hughes as the sidekick (22/6/5 with 1st team defense).

In 2006, Lebron stole Hughes from Arenas and beat Arenas in the 1st Round

So lebron has always been a cheating fraudster

Recruitment/collusion is obvious. I don't know why the stans choose to ignore it.

But I guess that's not hard to see because they also refuse to acknowledge that Lebron is a serial flopper and has some of the worst travelling violations.

[sdot_thadon]

Then AD deserves to be diminished for being a beta.

I'm just out here to point out the "pitch" to get people that Lebron can use. Seeing AD's potential but beta mindset, I guess it didn't really matter what Lebron said.

Still this is an insight as to what Lebron might usually have as a pitch in his past collusion. The discontinuity between what he would say vs what he would allow to happen.

What makes guys like you think that being 2nd option or deffering makes you beta? More silly internet guy myths. There are guys who have sat in the 15th roster spot that would tear you a new asshole.....

[3ball]

What makes guys like you think that being 2nd option or deffering makes you beta? More silly internet guy myths. There are guys who have sat in the 15th roster spot that would tear you a new asshole.....


I suppose everyone in history had to defer because everyone had "1b" sidekicks that outscored them for a playoff run

Only MJ never had to defer and won with a true 2nd option that always averaged far less

Ultimately, Kobe/MJ's superior jumpshooting skill and pure scoring allowed them to win with true 2nd options, while lebron needs a 1st option to play sidekick (1b)

[Hey Yo]

Because some people are sheep and are led to believe something and don't even evaluate the trajectory.
So you're saying that LeBron won a title with a retard who can't think for himself?

Makes his 2020 title that more impressive.

[TheGoatest]

You know what's hilarious about this thread?

The fact that AD was free to walk this offseason after he witnessed LeBron's "con job" and true sinister purpose for recruiting him last season.
Instead he chose to re-sign with the Lakers. Why?

[Trollsmasher]

AD has only himself to blame for playing like a bitch this season

[light]

Lebron has destroyed this guy

He's taught AD to take the regular season off and be a passive play-finisher (bron-ball)

Without AD dominating, the Lakers can't win

Haters are extra panicky today.

You don't finish in the top 2, top 3 in MVP voting every season by taking regular seasons off.

LeBron is going to win MVP #5 this year and he will not have done that by taking the regular season off.

They don't need AD to dominate on offense. Their offense is very potent. AD's importance to the Lakers is mostly about defense. That's his area of expertise and his pride. That's also the only area where he feels comfortable as a leader.

AD just needs to keep doing what he's been doing and the Lakers will be successful.

[3ball]

Haters are extra panicky today.

You don't finish in the top 2, top 3 in MVP voting every season by taking regular seasons off.

LeBron is going to win MVP #5 this year and he will not have done that by taking the regular season off.

They don't need AD to dominate on offense. Their offense is very potent. AD's importance to the Lakers is mostly about defense. That's his area of expertise and his pride. That's also the only area where he feels comfortable as a leader.

AD just needs to keep doing what he's been doing and the Lakers will be successful.


Lakers can't win the playoffs if AD doesn't average 25+ because lebron can't jumpshoot his way to 40+ in the playoffs.... And 40+ with plodding drives gets blown away by record amount (14', 17', 18')

Lebron needs a 1b that scores nearly as much in the Finals to win.. he can't win by averaging 10-20 more than his sidekick like MJ (carry-job)

[light]

Lakers can't win the playoffs if AD doesn't average 25+ because lebron can't jumpshoot his way to 40+ in the playoffs.... And 40+ with plodding drives gets blown away by record amount (14', 17', 18')

Lebron needs a 1b that scores nearly as much in the Finals to win.. he can't win by averaging 10-20 more than his sidekick like MJ (carry-job)

AD averaging 25 ppg wouldn't make him dominant. He averaged that in the finals last year with multiple scoring games in the teens, so that's a weird threshold you set for yourself because you said he needed to be dominant but now your'e saying he doesn't need to be dominant.

LeBron doesn't need his sidekick to do anything specific - he needs his teammates to score as a group - who the points come from doesn't actually matter from the game perspective, it only matters when you think about what's necessary to keep your sidekick happy and motivated.

LeBron has played with sidekicks that need to score to feel fulfilled (AD probably doesn't apply - I don't think he cares). Jordan couldn't play with players like that - he felt threatened by them and would have them traded. Scottie's presence and management was hugely important in keeping Jordan in a non toxic state.

[8Ball]

Haters are extra panicky today.

You don't finish in the top 2, top 3 in MVP voting every season by taking regular seasons off.

LeBron is going to win MVP #5 this year and he will not have done that by taking the regular season off.

They don't need AD to dominate on offense. Their offense is very potent. AD's importance to the Lakers is mostly about defense. That's his area of expertise and his pride. That's also the only area where he feels comfortable as a leader.

AD just needs to keep doing what he's been doing and the Lakers will be successful.

AD is playing as well as Pippen ever did. 3ball having a meltdown over this.

[TheGoatest]

1993-94 Chicago Bulls:

Scottie Pippen: Highest ppg of his career, 3rd in MVP voting.
Horace Grant: 1st time all-star, highest ppg of career
B.J. Armstrong: 1st time all-star, highest ppg of career
Steve Kerr: highest ppg of career
Bill Wennington: highest ppg of career
Pete Myers: highest ppg of career
Scott Williams: highest ppg of career

That's 7 players on the roster who had the highest ppgs of career and two 1st time all-stars. All in the exact same season. What was so special about this season for the Bulls? Anyone know? :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

1993-94 Chicago Bulls:

Scottie Pippen: Highest ppg of his career, 3rd in MVP voting.
Horace Grant: 1st time all-star, highest ppg of career
B.J. Armstrong: 1st time all-star, highest ppg of career
Steve Kerr: highest ppg of career
Bill Wennington: highest ppg of career
Pete Myers: highest ppg of career
Scott Williams: highest ppg of career

That's 7 players on the roster who had the highest ppgs of career and two 1st time all-stars. All in the exact same season. What was so special about this season for the Bulls? Anyone know? :confusedshrug:


Each of those guys averaged 1-2 points more in 1994 - so they played to 98% capacity alongside Jordan.. Compare that to Lebron's best teammates, who didn't get anywhere near their career high (capacity) alongside lebron

Jordan's return from baseball illustrated how his playing style was optimal because his return impacted teammates equally/equitably - Jordan's scoring versatility (including off-ball) fits with everyone, so everyone took a 1-2 point haircut when he returned.. otoh, lebron's skills are heavily ball-dominant, which doesn't fit with certain player types, so certain guys crater alongside lebron (love, bosh, ingram, hughes, rose, IT, wade, jamison, crowder)...

[Airupthere]

1993-94 Chicago Bulls:

Scottie Pippen: Highest ppg of his career, 3rd in MVP voting.
Horace Grant: 1st time all-star, highest ppg of career
B.J. Armstrong: 1st time all-star, highest ppg of career
Steve Kerr: highest ppg of career
Bill Wennington: highest ppg of career
Pete Myers: highest ppg of career
Scott Williams: highest ppg of career

That's 7 players on the roster who had the highest ppgs of career and two 1st time all-stars. All in the exact same season. What was so special about this season for the Bulls? Anyone know? :confusedshrug:

The difference is, they weren't ball dominated. They weren't merely recipients of passes meant to stack up stats. They actually knew how to play that when MJ left, they were still the same winning team. They weren't diminished and were in fact riding on good momentum. They naturally filled up the niche in numbers but they still lacked that strong finisher and dominant player in MJ.

The pattern here with LBJ, players slowly stagnate as the years go on. Players like Love, Bosh, and now what it seems like AD is in the same direction, all become diminished as the years go on.

[aj1987]

Lebron has destroyed this guy

He's taught AD to take the regular season off and be a passive play-finisher (bron-ball)

Without AD dominating, the Lakers can't win

The Lakers literally have the best record in the league, you ****ing idiot.

[8Ball]

1993-94 Chicago Bulls:

Scottie Pippen: Highest ppg of his career, 3rd in MVP voting.
Horace Grant: 1st time all-star, highest ppg of career
B.J. Armstrong: 1st time all-star, highest ppg of career
Steve Kerr: highest ppg of career
Bill Wennington: highest ppg of career
Pete Myers: highest ppg of career
Scott Williams: highest ppg of career

That's 7 players on the roster who had the highest ppgs of career and two 1st time all-stars. All in the exact same season. What was so special about this season for the Bulls? Anyone know? :confusedshrug:

55 wins without Jordan. ding ding ding.

[3ball]

The Lakers literally have the best record in the league, you ****ing idiot.


In the playoffs.. they can't win in the playoffs without AD getting 25+ and being a 1a/1b with lebron

Lebron needs a 1b and can't win with a true 2nd option because he can't shoot well at the higher volumes (contested jumpshooting) required of playing with 2nd options.

[aj1987]

In the playoffs.. they can't win in the playoffs without AD getting 25+ and being a 1a/1b with lebron

Lebron needs a 1b and can't win with a true 2nd option because he can't shoot well at the higher volumes (contested jumpshooting) required of playing with 2nd options.

Davis wasn't 1a/1b with LeBron in the Finals last season.

With that being said, LeBron >>>> 1-9 and that's a fact now. Go eat shit, retard. :cheers:

[8Ball]

Davis wasn't 1a/1b with LeBron in the Finals last season.

With that being said, LeBron >>>> 1-9 and that's a fact now. Go eat shit, retard. :cheers:

3ball had a meltdown after last night's game put LeBron in MVP race lead.

[RRR3]

Snivelball is always throwing a tantrum every time I read ISH. What a ****ing infant

[3ball]

Davis wasn't 1a/1b with LeBron in the Finals last season.

With that being said, LeBron >>>> 1-9 and that's a fact now. Go eat shit, retard. :cheers:


AD was MVP against the good comp (Western playoffs)

And he only averaged 5 less in the Finals, which is 1b to Lebron

MJ averaged 10-20 more than his sidekick in all 6 Finals wins (carry-job), compared to 2 to 5 more for Lebron (shared load)

Btw, Wade outscored Lebron in the 2011 Playoffs and AD outscored him in 2020 (Kyrie matched Lebron in 16')

[Airupthere]

AD averaged 25 in the Finals,vso that's within 5 points and a 1b to Lebron

Lebron averaged 2 to 5 more than his sidekick in all Finals wins, versus 10-20 for mj over pippen

That is considering Lebron dominates and controls the ball all the time.

[tpols]

Davis wasn't 1a/1b with LeBron in the Finals last season.

With that being said, LeBron >>>> 1-9 and that's a fact now. Go eat shit, retard. :cheers:

You do realize AD outscored Lebron in last years playoffs right? And on better efficiency with the only clutch shot (vs Denver).

He put up a better line than Laker's Kareem. That's how good he was.

[aj1987]

AD was MVP against the good comp (Western playoffs)

And he averaged within 5 points in the Finals, which is 1b to Lebron

MJ averaged 10-20 more than his sidekick in all 6 Finals wins, compared to 2 to 5 more for Lebron

1-9 never had a winning record without Pippen. That's a FACT.

He was such a trash player, all he could muster was a single win in the first rounds without Pippen.


You do realize AD outscored Lebron in last years playoffs right? And on better efficiency with the only clutch shot (vs Denver).

He put up a better line than Laker's Kareem. That's how good he was.

You do realize that AD literally scored 2 points TOTAL more than LeBron, right?

Also, you do realize that I was talking about the Finals, right?

0.1 difference in PPG, while LeBron had significantly more rebounds and assists.

[tpols]

1-9 never had a winning record without Pippen. That's a FACT.

He was such a trash player, all he could muster was a single win in the first rounds without Pippen.



You do realize that AD literally scored 2 points TOTAL more than LeBron, right?

Also, you do realize that I was talking about the Finals, right?

0.1 difference in PPG, while LeBron had significantly more rebounds and assists.

Yes... it's obviously a small difference but it shows he was playing on Lebron's level. He scored more playoff points. Significantly more rebounds? AD averaged one less rebound per game lmao. Assists fine, but AD was a better defender and hit the only Laker gamewinner of the post season... vs Denver which ended up being the best team they faced. It was as clear a 1a/1b situation as there's ever been. You guys are distorting the truth big time.

[aj1987]

Yes... it's obviously a small difference but it shows he was playing on Lebron's level. He scored more playoff points. Significantly more rebounds? AD averaged one less rebound per game lmao. Assists fine, but AD was a better defender and hit the only Laker gamewinner of the post season... vs Denver which ended up being the best team they faced. It was as clear a 1a/1b situation as there's ever been. You guys are distorting the truth big time.

You're literally doing mental gymnastics right now, to justify your autism. AD was the better defender? It was LeBron who completely shut down Butler in G6. LeBron was the one who shut down Murray when it mattered. This is the problem with you Brick turds. The only thing you look at is "PPG!!!!1". With LeBron and AD having identical scoring outputs, LeBron outperformed him pretty in much every other single aspect.

AD was great, but LeBron was just better.

[tpols]

Nobody cares about them beating a team that had +6000 title odds coming into the season. The 2002 Nets had +6000 odds as well, and nobody cared about the Lakers beating them because it was a one sided affair. In 2002 they cared about the Kings though... and likewise last year we care about the Nuggets and to a lesser extent the Rockets because they actually posed a bit of a threat at least, even though they still had underdog odds. The Heat were/are a joke and a fluke.

[NBAGOAT]

Nobody cares about them beating a team that had +6000 title odds coming into the season. The 2002 Nets had +6000 odds as well, and nobody cared about the Lakers beating them because it was a one sided affair. In 2002 they cared about the Kings though... and likewise last year we care about the Nuggets and to a lesser extent the Rockets because they actually posed a bit of a threat at least, even though they still had underdog odds. The Heat were/are a joke and a fluke.

This is bs narrative. Heat were on the nuggets and rockets lvl if not better and really rockets ended up being a joke. It was impressive beating bucks and Celtics. The heat weren’t too much of a credible threat but Denver even less so then even going into playoffs. no one had Denver even making the conference finals before playoffs while some analysts picked Miami to upset Milwaukee. Houston was really the secondary threat in the West to LA but again laid an egg.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29878951/nba-playoffs-2020-experts-picks-lakers-nuggets-western-conference-finals

Denver series 20-1 for lakers average around lakers in

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30004224/nba-finals-experts-picks-lakers-heat
Heat series 17-8 for lakers average around lakers in 7.

So analysts definitely thought heat were more of a challenge and lol they were right too. Took lakers to 1 more game even with injury issues

[NBAGOAT]

When you add guys who need the ball like Dennis and Harrell your stats will go down and more depth means playing less minutes too. LeBron’s assists are way down from last year but let me guess it’s only for him he has himself to blame for his numbers going down. For everyone else, it’s a teammate meaning lebron ball hogging.

[RRR3]

When you add guys who need the ball like Dennis and Harrell your stats will go down and more depth means playing less minutes too. LeBron’s assists are way down from last year but let me guess it’s only for him he has himself to blame for his numbers going down. For everyone else, it’s a teammate meaning lebron ball hogging.
Check out my Embiid thread. Xiao argued Gobert is a better rim runner than AD :lol

[Airupthere]

When you add guys who need the ball like Dennis and Harrell your stats will go down and more depth means playing less minutes too. LeBron’s assists are way down from last year but let me guess it’s only for him he has himself to blame for his numbers going down. For everyone else, it’s a teammate ball hogging.

Lebron's assists were unusually high last year so comparing that to this year would seem like a drastic drop but it's not. Lebron still gets his way no matter what.

It just seems to be a pattern with PFs that Lebron plays with where Love, Bosh and AD all seem to have their numbers drop noticeably, moreso in ppg and rpg upon playing with Lebron. Wade's numbers dropped too.

You can't see the same happen with KD, curry and klay playing together. They virtually kept their numbers consistent.

[3ball]

When you add guys who need the ball like Dennis and Harrell your stats will go down and more depth means playing less minutes too. LeBron’s assists are way down from last year but let me guess it’s only for him he has himself to blame for his numbers going down. For everyone else, it’s a teammate meaning lebron ball hogging.

Lebron stands around and is completely unskilled off-ball and can't produce off-ball

So he forces his teammates to be skilled and play off-ball because he can't

It's the biggest reason his team ceilings are lower (4/10) and therefore isn't goat

[Airupthere]

Again, circling back to the main topic. Just pointing out the absurdity of what Lebron says or might say in his desperation to recruit. And what seems to be the trend of AD's stats going down in an inflated era.

[tpols]

This is bs narrative. Heat were on the nuggets and rockets lvl if not better and really rockets ended up being a joke. It was impressive beating bucks and Celtics. The heat weren’t too much of a credible threat but Denver even less so then even going into playoffs. no one had Denver even making the conference finals before playoffs while some analysts picked Miami to upset Milwaukee. Houston was really the secondary threat in the West to LA but again laid an egg.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29878951/nba-playoffs-2020-experts-picks-lakers-nuggets-western-conference-finals

Denver series 20-1 for lakers average around lakers in

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30004224/nba-finals-experts-picks-lakers-heat
Heat series 17-8 for lakers average around lakers in 7.

So analysts definitely thought heat were more of a challenge and lol they were right too. Took lakers to 1 more game even with injury issues

The Heat overachieved and were a fluke. They had +6000 odds talent. The Nuggets and Rockets were at least at +700 and +2000 respectively so they had MUCH better talent, and likewise expectations. The Heat were a fluke because they built their bones on stopping a one trick playoff pony (Giannis) and it gave them new found confidence. Their talent was ass. +6000.

[Hey Yo]

Lebron's assists were unusually high last year so comparing that to this year would seem like a drastic drop but it's not. Lebron still gets his way no matter what.

It just seems to be a pattern with PFs that Lebron plays with where Love, Bosh and AD all seem to have their numbers drop noticeably, moreso in ppg and rpg upon playing with Lebron. Wade's numbers dropped too.

You can't see the same happen with KD, curry and klay playing together. They virtually kept their numbers consistent.

Definitely notice a pattern of PF winning a ring with LeBron. Without him though..... not so much.

[SATAN]

5 pages...Really?

[Airupthere]

5 pages...Really?

:rockon:

[Airupthere]

5 pages...Really?

No need to debate this really. 5 pages is overkill. It's clear and evident that Lebron will say whatever to recruit and form superteams.

“I’ve always recruited,” James told ESPN’s Rachel Nichols in a sit-down interview that will air Christmas Day at halftime of the Lakers-Golden State Warriors game on ABC. “I’ve been trying to get guys to come play with me since, like, 2007. I’ve got rejected a lot. But I’ve also have not got rejected a lot.”

[FireDavidKahn]

Lakers win championship


"LeBron destroyed this guy. LeGOAT ball doesn't win"

[AirBonner]

4chips 4fmvp 4mvp


“LeBron ball doesn’t work”

[aj1987]

Nobody cares about them beating a team that had +6000 title odds coming into the season. The 2002 Nets had +6000 odds as well, and nobody cared about the Lakers beating them because it was a one sided affair. In 2002 they cared about the Kings though... and likewise last year we care about the Nuggets and to a lesser extent the Rockets because they actually posed a bit of a threat at least, even though they still had underdog odds. The Heat were/are a joke and a fluke.

Preseason title odds? That's your ****ing argument? :oldlol:

FOH, kid. You're not even worth my time or effort.

[And1AllDay]

https://media.tenor.com/images/7e215f7a2673eb36b509d5142fc2be94/tenor.gif

[And1AllDay]

4chips 4fmvp 4mvp


“LeBron ball doesn’t work”

:oldlol: gottemmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[3ball]

:oldlol: gottemmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


6 losses - most in history

4 FMVP's given to lebron's defensive assignment - most in history

carry on!

[Axe]

6 losses - most in history
False ;)

[3ball]

False ;)


6 losses - most in history of 3-pointer basketball

4 FMVP's given to lebron's defensive assignment - most in history of 3-pointer basketball

[Axe]

6 losses - most in history of 3-pointer basketball

4 FMVP's given to lebron's defensive assignment - most in history of 3-pointer basketball
You're still on hemorrhage tho

[tpols]

Preseason title odds? That's your ****ing argument? :oldlol:

FOH, kid. You're not even worth my time or effort.

That's always been my argument.

[RRR3]

I’ve always been retarded.
:lol

[StrongLurk]

More 3ball alt's crying and melting down, just go get therapy already.

[aj1987]

:lol

:roll: :roll:

[TheGoatest]

Anthony "I suck" Davis this season: 5.5 free throw attempts per game on 73% shooting
Anthony Davis last season: 8.5 free throw attempts per game on 85% shooting

He's become a total non-factor when it comes to drawing fouls and punishing those whenever they do foul him. Zero aggressiveness.
A damn disgrace that LeBron GOAT James is more hungry to win his 5th at the age of 36 in his 18th season than this softie is to win his 2nd at the age of 27. He should be ashamed of himself.

2013-14 Chris Bosh 2.0 and post-2016 Kevin Love 2.0 in terms of complacency.

[coin24]

4chips 4fmvp 4mvp


“LeBron ball doesn’t work”


4/10...

Not even a pass mark:lol

[Trollsmasher]

Davis perfectly shows how much of the GOAT level is about the mental aspect.

Dude has all the talent in the world, DPOY candidate and one of the best postseason scorers (6th all time scoring on 1st efficiency amongst the high usage players) but wins one ring, takes a fat deal and checks out at 27

[TheGoatest]

Davis perfectly shows how much of the GOAT level is about the mental aspect.

Dude has all the talent in the world, DPOY candidate and one of the best postseason scorers (6th all time scoring on 1st efficiency amongst the high usage players) but wins one ring, takes a fat deal and checks out at 27

Watch him score around 40 against the Pistons tonight in a meaningless blowout win that will have Jared Dudley and Quinn Cook playing for the Lakers halfway through the 4th quarter, much like the Bulls game a couple of games back.

Then it's back to a soft, mid-10s/low 20s point game with crappy rebounding against the Celtics on Saturday. If an injured v@gina doesn't prevent him from playing, that is.

[Airupthere]

Anthony "I suck" Davis this season: 5.5 free throw attempts per game on 73% shooting
Anthony Davis last season: 8.5 free throw attempts per game on 85% shooting

He's become a total non-factor when it comes to drawing fouls and punishing those whenever they do foul him. Zero aggressiveness.
A damn disgrace that LeBron GOAT James is more hungry to win his 5th at the age of 36 in his 18th season than this softie is to win his 2nd at the age of 27. He should be ashamed of himself.

2013-14 Chris Bosh 2.0 and post-2016 Kevin Love 2.0 in terms of complacency.

It's good that you are now acknowledging the pattern between Love, Bosh and AD playing with Lebron. You'd think, would that be coincidence? Which one is the common denominator?

[TheGoatest]

It's good that you are now acknowledging the pattern between Love, Bosh and AD playing with Lebron. You'd think, would that be coincidence? Which one is the common denominator?

On the only championships those three have won? Definitely LeBron. And after LeBron won a championship for Bosh and Love, they weren't hungry for more chips like LeBron. Now the same is happening with Davis again. And if LeBron was 5 years younger, he should leave AD to find a new sidekick who is as hungry as him just like he left Bosh and Love.

[Airupthere]

On the only championships those three have won? Definitely LeBron.

And the price to pay is heavy. Their career peaks end short. Sure, they had rings but only Lebron is credited for. They get thrown by the wayside. That is the tradeoff of playing with Lebron. Longterm, you get diminished and not get credited for the utility that Lebron has consumed you up for.

[sdot_thadon]

Jeez what a pessimistic outlook on having championship success...I guess this point of view makes sense if it bothers you to see Lebron get credit for anything tho. Everyone that played with this guy and won aside from Wade had very little playoff success before being his teammate. Kinda sounds like you believe every teammate he's had deserves more praise than he does for the result in the end, and that's just silly.

[Airupthere]

Jeez what a pessimistic outlook on having championship success...I guess this point of view makes sense if it bothers you to see Lebron get credit for anything tho. Everyone that played with this guy and won aside from Wade had very little playoff success before being his teammate. Kinda sounds like you believe every teammate he's had deserves more praise than he does for the result in the end, and that's just silly.

It's not a pessimistic view when a player of AD's caliber has a career of his own to look after and franchise to support when Lebron goes away.

It should bother anyone with this disappropriation of credit. Lebron did not win any rings before teaming up with Wade and Bosh too. Then teaming up with Love and Kyrie back in CLE, the only rings that Lebron has going for him to claim that he is the winner is the one he got from COLLUDING in the first place. Then again with AD. You see where this goes. People say AD did not win anything without Lebron. Well supposedly Lebron did not win anything without his collusions. Lebron did not win it the year before AD joined anyway.

[tpols]

It goes to show you how spoiled Laker fans are that they have a guy whose averaging 22/9 on very elite splits 118 ORTG and a better DRTG than he had last year, and that "sucks". It only verifies that they can only win if he's hanging like 30 a night. Pau numbers (actually slightly better) won't cut it.

[FireDavidKahn]

This is what a good leader does. Tries to boost the confidence of his teammates and make them believe in themselves.

Lebron is still king though

[Airupthere]

It goes to show you how spoiled Laker fans are that they have a guy whose averaging 22/9 on very elite splits 118 ORTG and a better DRTG than he had last year, and that "sucks". It only verifies that they can only win if he's hanging like 30 a night. Pau numbers (actually slightly better) won't cut it.

And AD is supposedly a 25+ppg, 12+rpg kind of guy. He is diminished sadly but his diminished form is still elite for the league. You are right, to them it is still not enough.

[Hey Yo]

And AD is supposedly a 25+ppg, 12+rpg kind of guy. He is diminished sadly but his diminished form is still elite for the league. You are right, to them it is still not enough.
What's considered higher than elite status? How can your game be diminished, but still elite?

[Airupthere]

What's considered higher than elite status? How can your game be diminished, but still elite?

That's how high AD's ceiling is. Right now, he's playing passive and yet still providing that presence on defense. AD playing in full capacity is dominant and that would reflect on his stats.

[dankok8]

I think both Lebron and AD will end the season at ~24 ppg.

[Hey Yo]

That's how high AD's ceiling is. Right now, he's playing passive and yet still providing that presence on defense. AD playing in full capacity is dominant and that would reflect on his stats.
Either you're playing at an elite level or you're not. Your game can't be diminished and still playing at an elite level.

[TheGoatest]

And the price to pay is heavy. Their career peaks end short. Sure, they had rings but only Lebron is credited for. They get thrown by the wayside. That is the tradeoff of playing with Lebron. Longterm, you get diminished and not get credited for the utility that Lebron has consumed you up for.

Not as high as the record 7 Bulls players who averaged career highs in ppg in 1993-94, exactly the one full season Michael Jordan sat out. Jordan = ruining 7 careers at once.

Mo Williams = the only all-star selection of his career as soon as he started playing with LeBron on his team
Horace Grant & B.J. Armstrong = both the only all-star selections of their careers as soon as they started playing without Jordan on their team

[Airupthere]

Not as high as the record 7 Bulls players who averaged career highs in ppg in 1993-94, exactly the one full season Michael Jordan sat out. Jordan = ruining 7 careers at once.

Mo Williams = the only all-star selection of his career as soon as he started playing with LeBron on his team
Horace Grant & B.J. Armstrong = both the only all-star selections of their careers as soon as they started playing without Jordan on their team

I don't even know why Jordan has to be mentioned here but as I already explained in other threads, Jordan creates a winning basketball team. He's tough but he challenges everyone to be better. They have team basketball (vs Bronball) where everyone actively plays a role on and off the ball. When Jordan left and they did well, that's a good testament of how structurally good that team was. Not because of individual talent but because of everything that they built together. That includes the toughness of each one and the leadership that Pippen had beyond that of Jordan's.

With Lebron, teammates become utility and recipients. So even if you were initially loaded with talent like when he colluded in Miami, Bosh and Dwyane declined over time as they realize their roles are less with Lebron dominating the ball and stats. They just became passive. They won, sure, but at that price. We see the trend with Bosh, Wade, Love, and AD now.

[aj1987]

I don't even know why Jordan has to be mentioned here but as I already explained in other threads, Jordan creates a winning basketball team. He's tough but he challenges everyone to be better. They have team basketball (vs Bronball) where everyone actively plays a role on and off the ball. When Jordan left and they did well, that's a good testament of how structurally good that team was. Not because of individual talent but because of everything that they built together. That includes the toughness of each one and the leadership that Pippen had beyond that of Jordan's.

With Lebron, teammates become utility and recipients. So even if you were initially loaded with talent like when he colluded in Miami, Bosh and Dwyane declined over time as they realize their roles are less with Lebron dominating the ball and stats. They just became passive. They won, sure, but at that price. We see the trend with Bosh, Wade, Love, and AD now.

What a crock of horseshit.

What exactly were Bosh and Love doing before "bronball", retard?

[SATAN]

Bosh and Love are over rated by casuals. His point about Wade is moronic at best. Not sure why people even argue with that casual.

[TheGoatest]

I don't even know why Jordan has to be mentioned here but as I already explained in other threads, Jordan creates a winning basketball team. He's tough but he challenges everyone to be better. They have team basketball (vs Bronball) where everyone actively plays a role on and off the ball. When Jordan left and they did well, that's a good testament of how structurally good that team was. Not because of individual talent but because of everything that they built together. That includes the toughness of each one and the leadership that Pippen had beyond that of Jordan's.

With Lebron, teammates become utility and recipients. So even if you were initially loaded with talent like when he colluded in Miami, Bosh and Dwyane declined over time as they realize their roles are less with Lebron dominating the ball and stats. They just became passive. They won, sure, but at that price. We see the trend with Bosh, Wade, Love, and AD now.

No, Scottie Pippen creates a winning basketball team.

Jordan in 5 seasons without Pippen = 1-9 record in the playoffs, swept in the first round twice
Pippen without Jordan = knocked out of the 2nd round because of one of the all-time bullshit calls in NBA history

Jordan makes everyone better by having 7 Chicago Bulls players average career highs in ppg the very season he is out of the league and is not playing with them??

"They won, sure, but at that price." No player in history had to pay the price for winning as much as Scottie Pippen.

Pippen's best season: The season Jordan was out of the league for an entire season.
Pippen's second best season: The season Jordan was out of the league for all but 17 games of the season.

Coincidence?

He was robbed of MVPs, DPOYs and Finals MVPs by sacrificing his stats in order to make the selfish Jordan a winner, who repaid the favor by shitting all over Pippen in a pro-Jordan propaganda documentary made decades later.

All of LeBron's so called "stacked" teammates were career losers before and after they played with LeBron: Bosh, Love, Kyrie, AD. The only exception is Wade, who won in 2006, but then had literally the worst record in the league in 2008, before LeBron made him a winner again in 2012.

And in the case of AD, you have a bullshit case. Last season, he played with LeBron and played like a true superstar. He was All-NBA 1st team, All-defensive 1st team, and in my opinion screwed out of a DPOY award by Giannis. LeBron was screwed out of the MVP by Giannis, but that's another story.

LeBron has already proven that he is capable of not suppressing AD from being an elite player, and AD has proven that he can be an elite player while playing with LeBron. AD just plain sucks so far this season, and is nowhere near as good as he was last season. LeBron's ball domination sure is making AD shoot 71% from the free throw line, compared to his 85% from the previous season.

[Airupthere]

What a crock of horseshit.

What exactly were Bosh and Love doing before "bronball", retard?

What was Lebron doing before Bosh and Wade?

[aj1987]

What was Lebron doing before Bosh and Wade?

Leading his teams to Finals, ECF's, and winning MVP's. Being a first ballot HOF'er and an ATG, in simple words. Again, what were Bosh and Love doing before LeBron?

[Airupthere]

Leading his teams to Finals, ECF's, and winning MVP's. Being a first ballot HOF'er and an ATG, in simple words. Again, what were Bosh and Love doing before LeBron?

How many rings before collusion?

[tpols]

What a crock of horseshit.

What exactly were Bosh and Love doing before "bronball", retard?

Making All NBA teams, All Star games, and being the rebounding champ.

[aj1987]

Making All NBA teams, All Star games, and being the rebounding champ.

All that translated to how many PO appearances?


How many rings before collusion?

How many .500 seasons without Pippen?

[tpols]

Chris Bosh made the playoffs with the raptors but they both had no help. You guys complain about Big Z, Mo Will, and Jamison but at least those guys were all all stars. Bosh's best help was TJ Ford and Anthony Parker, and Love's was Kevin Martin and Pekovic... way worse. A ton of superstars wouldn't make the playoffs with those teams.

[RRR3]

There is no universe in which Kevin Martin and Pekovic are worse than Mo Williams and old Big Z. Bron still won 66 games. Maybe if Love played defense he could have made the playoffs.

[tpols]

They absolutely were. Big Z has multiple all star appearances and Mo at least has one. Kevin Martin and Pekovic have a combined zero.

You really like being wrong eh, bud?

[sdot_thadon]

It's not a pessimistic view when a player of AD's caliber has a career of his own to look after and franchise to support when Lebron goes away.

It should bother anyone with this disappropriation of credit. Lebron did not win any rings before teaming up with Wade and Bosh too. Then teaming up with Love and Kyrie back in CLE, the only rings that Lebron has going for him to claim that he is the winner is the one he got from COLLUDING in the first place. Then again with AD. You see where this goes. People say AD did not win anything without Lebron. Well supposedly Lebron did not win anything without his collusions. Lebron did not win it the year before AD joined anyway.

Nonsense, I have yet to see anyone discredit AD, just guys like you crying that he's better than Lebron. Nobody wins rings before having good teammates, that's kinda how things work bub. I agree that bosh was overkill in Miami but anyone with 2 shreds normal human brain pattern know his importance and contribution that team. An idiot believes that team still wins anything without Lebron tho. Wade was an established winner with what caveat? He had a top 10 all time, possibly top 5 all time player next to him in Shaq. Haters have always made it seem like Lebron has to win alone, even to the point of guys spazzing out over buyout pickups at the end of the year: omg he got Greg Oden!!! Shame on him for kidnapping players from non playoff team bliss and forcing them to win world championships, oh the humanity....

[aj1987]

Chris Bosh made the playoffs with the raptors but they both had no help. You guys complain about Big Z, Mo Will, and Jamison but at least those guys were all all stars. Bosh's best help was TJ Ford and Anthony Parker, and Love's was Kevin Martin and Pekovic... way worse. A ton of superstars wouldn't make the playoffs with those teams.

People only remember Big-Z and Mo Williams because they played with LeBron ****ing James. If they were players on the Wolves with Love or Raptors with Bosh, literally no one would know them. Also, Pekovic was a near 20/10 big and Martin was a 20 PPG scorer. We're not asking that team to make the Finals. Just make the PO's.

Lets also not ignore the FACT that there are only x number of possessions and FGA's per team. Wade and LeBron or Kyrie and LeBron were without question the 2nd best scorers on those teams. Love and Bosh went from being the #1 options taking 20 shots on shit teams to 3rd options on perennial contenders. No shit, their stats are gonna dip.

[Thenameless]

AD's just in a funk. He'll come out of it. Like most people though, I did think he'd be playing better right now than he actually is.

I think part of the problem is team composition. Last year, they were surrounded with good defenders that were bad at scoring: Javale, Dwight, Avery Bradley, Danny Green. So most of the scoring fell on Lebron and AD. This year, they have more scorers, and are "expected" maybe to share the ball a little more with guys like Schroder, Harrell, a sometimes hot Kuzma, and an emerging Caruso and THT. This can take a player out of his offensive rhythm.

I think they should start Matthews and have Schroder come off the bench to add scoring punch that way. It might get AD into the flow earlier if he gets more touches.