LeGOAT

[ThiccBoi]

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[ThiccBoi]

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[LAmbruh]

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[FireDavidKahn]

LeGOAT is the train

https://ericzaneshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/tunnell.gif

[Axe]

King kong :rockon:

[kawhileonard2]

1 title in 11 years for the franchise that drafted you. :roll: Kawhi has better results than that. Imagine Brady or Montana with one title for the franchise that drafted them.

[MaxPlayer]

5* thread

Would read again

[3ball]

He needs a 1b to help with scoring load

He can't win with a true 2nd option that scores far less because he shoots poorly at the higher volume required (more contested jumpers required, which he's poor at)

Ultimately, he isn't goat because he reduced basketball by removing the best brand from the league (organic) and replaced it with AAU-style recruiting and talent-based winning (weaker basketball).. certainly the organic teams of prior eras would demolish today's hodge-podge of short-term mercenary teamwork.

[MaxPlayer]

He needs a 1b to help with scoring load

He can't win with a true 2nd option that scores far less because he shoots poorly at the higher volume required (more contested jumpers required, which he's poor at)

Ultimately, he isn't goat because he reduced basketball by removing the best brand from the league (organic) and replaced it with AAU-style recruiting and talent-based winning (weaker basketball).. certainly the organic teams of prior eras would demolish today's hodge-podge of short-term mercenary teamwork.

Jordan can't win without Pippen

[light]

LeGOAT is the greatest athlete in the history of sports.

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[3ball]

.
Career Teammate Rankings


PER:

Anthony Davis....3
Dwayne Wade......21
Kyrie Irving.....33
Kevin Love.......45
Chris Bosh.......62
Scottie Pippen...132
Horace Grant.....185


OBPM:

Anthony Davis....12
Kyrie Irving.....13
Dwayne Wade......25
Kevin Love.......29
Scottie Pippen...90
Chris Bosh.......102
Horace Grant.....107



WS/48:

Anthony Davis....13
Horace Grant.....55
Kevin Love.......57
Kyrie Irving.....68
Dwayne Wade......70
Chris Bosh.......76
Scottie Pippen...129


Ortg:

Horace Grant.....4 :biggums:
Anthony Davis....28
Kevin Love.......47
Kyrie Irving.....89
Chris Bosh.......107
Dwayne Wade......231
Scottie Pippen...NR top 250


Effective Field Goal Percentage:

Anthony Davis....86
Kyrie Irving.....99
Horace Grant.....206
Kevin Love.......225
Chris Bosh.......227
Scottie Pippen...244
Dwayne Wade......NR top 250


True Shooting:

Anthony Davis.....41
Kyrie Irving......84
Chris Bosh........89
Kevin Love........92
Dwayne Wade.......183
Dennis Rodman.....244 :rockon:
Scoottie Pippen...NR top 250 :facepalm
Horace Grant......NR top 250


BPM:

Anthony Davis.....12
Dwayne Wade.......22
Kyrie Irving......32
Scottie Pippen....35
Kevin Love........48
Chris Bosh........134
Horace Grant......176


Notice that all the real stats that are actually measuring something tangible (PER, OBPM, Ortg, WS/48, eFG%, TS%, etc) actually correlate very closely with one another in rankings. They all say that Pippen was maybe a top-100 offensive player all-time. Pippen wasn't even a Chris Bosh level offensive talent. Also, Scottie Pippen's BPM ranking is wildly incongruous because it rewards defensive stars playing on great defensive teams. From BREF about the BPM 2.0 changes:




When basketball reference reworked the stat back in 2016, players like John Stockton (another Pippen-like two-way player) saw their career BPM double. And here is the kicker... Even with that bonus bump gifted to him and playing on the best defensive teams of all-time practically his entire career, Pippen wouldn't even be a top-three impact player compared to Lebron's teammates. All-time Pippen is just slightly better than Kevin Love.

In summation, in order for Lebron to be on the level of Jordan, he would need to win six titles and win six Finals MVP's with a Chris Bosh/Kevin Love level player as his second option.

Lebron fans...

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[3ball]

Jordan can't win without Pippen


Pippen is the least star help of any top 10 player, so Jordan is GOAT

Pippen is the only guy whose perceived rank (35) is far higher than his production rate rank of about 120th (see previous post)..

he's the best example of the winning spotlight inflating him - he was a true 2nd option and has no business in the top 100

[light]

Pippen is the least star help of any top 10 player, so Jordan is GOAT

Pippen is the only guy whose perceived rank (35) is far higher than his production rate rank of about 120th (see previous post)..

he's the best example of the winning spotlight inflating him - he was a true 2nd option and has no business in the top 100

Pippen was the de facto leader of the Chicago Bulls. Jordan's teammates didn't even like him but they adored Scottie and listened to him.

No Pip No Chip is a historical fact.

[Axe]

1 title in 11 years for the franchise that drafted you. :roll: Kawhi has better results than that. Imagine Brady or Montana with one title for the franchise that drafted them.
Kawhi has won a chip for the pacers?

Lol what a dumb take

[3ball]

Pippen was the de facto leader of the Chicago Bulls. Jordan's teammates didn't even like him but they adored Scottie and listened to him.

No Pip No Chip is a historical fact.


No one listened to pippen because he never said anything

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSPo7lPyAlc&t=21m01s


And everyone followed Jordan's lead

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSPo7lPyAlc&t=26m58s

[Spurs m8]

God he breeds loser stans

I can see why though

[light]

No one listened to pippen because he never said anything

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSPo7lPyAlc&t=21m01s


And everyone followed Jordan's lead

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSPo7lPyAlc&t=26m58s

Pippen was the Bulls vocal leader.

Jordan didn't like being a vocal leader (outside of making bad jokes at teammates expense) and he wasn't an understanding leader. When Pippen missed time MJ begrudgingly acknowledged that he had to speak up more with Scottie out to fill that void - all of this was in The Last Dance.

[3ball]

Pippen was the Bulls vocal leader.

Jordan didn't like being a vocal leader (outside of making bad jokes at teammates expense) and he wasn't an understanding leader. When Pippen missed time MJ begrudgingly acknowledged that he had to speak up more with Scottie out to fill that void - all of this was in The Last Dance.


No Jordan was the vocal leader as the videos showed - he ran the team and raised pippen from a baby

This is common knowledge

[light]

God he breeds loser stans

I can see why though

LeBron's fans are drawn in by his character. He embraces being a role model which is very refreshing. A lot of star athletes reject that.

He's a genuinely good person with an outstanding work ethic whose example should be followed by more people.

So it's not just about sports.

We believe he is a great man.

We believe he will go on to do great things for decades to come.

When he runs for office we will volunteer for his campaign.

We will go from arguing stats and rings to arguing policy and law.

What LeBron did in 2020 in terms of turning out the vote against Trump and becoming the most influential celebrity during the 2020 election was a greater accomplishment than all of his championships, and a greater accomplishment than all of anyone else's championships.

Basketball is only the beginning.

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[kawhileonard2]

Can't be GOAT when hoping around from team to team and not winning with the franchise that drafted you and you played your first game from. Easy to speak out when making 100 million a year. What happens if making 1 million a year like it was in the 80's and 90's. Let's talk then.

[k 96]

You can almost smell the LeHype 4 OF 10 James semen from the LeHype Nutthugging fans mouths on here. It's disgusting, and PATHETIC.

[light]

Can't be GOAT when hoping around from team to team and not winning with the franchise that drafted you and you played your first game from. Easy to speak out when making 100 million a year. What happens if making 1 million a year like it was in the 80's and 90's. Let's talk then.

It looks like you're wrong because he's widely considered either 1 or 2 all time.

People are impressed that he is basically his own franchise - he can literally go to any team and win a championship with any combination of different people.

Most players cannot do that, to say the least.

[3ball]

It looks like you're wrong because he's widely considered either 1 or 2 all time.

People are impressed that he is basically his own franchise - he can literally go to any team and win a championship with any combination of different people.

Most players cannot do that, to say the least.


He mostly loses with every super-team he's formed

Imagine if Jordan teamed up with Payton and Kemp but mostly lost - yet you think that's goat.. that's pretty dumb, no?

Anyone can do that and most guys like Dirk or CP3 would've won more with the help lebron had

[light]

He mostly loses with every super-team he's formed

Anyone can do that and most guys like Dirk or CP3 would've won more with the help he had

Imagine if Jordan teamed up with Payton and Kemp bit mostly lost - you think that's goat lol gtfo

The fact of the matter is that he's won everywhere he's gone and that was with you saying that he wouldnt.

I bet you think he's not going to win again this year.

You will be wrong again - but you're used to it.

Jordan would have mostly lost with Payton and Kemp. That team would never have gotten along.

[3ball]

The fact of the matter is that he's won everywhere he's gone and that was with you saying that he wouldnt.





I expected lebron to win "not 6, not 7"

I believed lebron because it's common knowledge that when someone forms a super-team, they're supposed to mostly WIN... they aren't supposed to mostly LOSE

For example, it wouldn't be goat and Jordan would infact suck if he teamed up with Drexler/McHale but mostly lost, and then Payton/Kemp but mostly lost....





I bet you think he's not going to win again this year.





Again, I always expect big 3 super-teams or a magic/kareem combo to win every year

But Lebron only went 3/7 with super-teams from 11-17'.. and last year he was a statistical "pippen" to AD, so who cares about last year - that was his easiest ring yet because he was a pippen to AD

[AussieSteve]

He mostly loses with every super-team he's formed

Imagine if Jordan teamed up with Payton and Kemp but mostly lost - yet you think that's goat.. that's pretty dumb, no?

Anyone can do that and most guys like Dirk or CP3 would've won more with the help lebron had

Jordan already had a team mate who was better than both Payton and Kemp, so he had no need to team up with them.

Pippen was better than most teams' best player for most of the 90s, and clearly better than every team's 2nd best player. Horace was also better than almost every team's 3rd best player as well. And after the Bulls lost him, of course they signed Rodman. And of course they had the best coach in the league also.

Few players have hit the team mate lottery like that.

[TheGoatest]

OP makes an excellent point.
5 star thread.

[And1AllDay]

legoat is the greatest athlete in the history of sports.

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this

[ThiccBoi]

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[Airupthere]

LeBron's fans are drawn in by his character. He embraces being a role model which is very refreshing. A lot of star athletes reject that.

He's a genuinely good person with an outstanding work ethic whose example should be followed by more people.

So it's not just about sports.

We believe he is a great man.

We believe he will go on to do great things for decades to come.

When he runs for office we will volunteer for his campaign.

We will go from arguing stats and rings to arguing policy and law.

What LeBron did in 2020 in terms of turning out the vote against Trump and becoming the most influential celebrity during the 2020 election was a greater accomplishment than all of his championships, and a greater accomplishment than all of anyone else's championships.

Basketball is only the beginning.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Screen-Shot-2021-01-26-at-9.32.44-PM.png

I get it now. It's beyond basketball for you stans. :oldlol:

[k0kakw0rld]

LeGOAT is the greatest athlete in the history of sports.

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[3ball]

Jordan already had a team mate who was better than both Payton and Kemp, so he had no need to team up with them.

Pippen was better than most teams' best player for most of the 90s, and clearly better than every team's 2nd best player. Horace was also better than almost every team's 3rd best player as well. And after the Bulls lost him, of course they signed Rodman. And of course they had the best coach in the league also.

Few players have hit the team mate lottery like that.


Horace Grant was not better than the opponent's 3rd best player - that's a lie



- Grant was destroyed by both Vlade and Perkins in the 1991 Finals...

- Kersey outplayed Grant in 1992 (and Kersey was a 20 ppg player that led the Blazers to the Finals in 1990 as 1st option)...

- Majerle was 3x all-star and destroys Grant (Majerle outplayed KJ in the 93' Finals, and both outplayed Grant)


Furthermore, the Bulls' GM was begging Seattle to take Pippen for Kemp.. Kemp was a legit #1 option that dominated the Finals and won FMVP votes from MJ, while Pippen averaged 15 on 34% and was outplayed by Schrempf..

kemp, penny, hill and many more were superior to Pippen, and Pippen was outplayed by 2nd options in 40% of playoff series (92' Xavier McDaniel.. 93' Kevin Willis.. 90' Dumars.. 95' Larry Johnson.. 96' Penny.. 96' Payton.. 97' Juwan Howard.. 97' Stockton.. 98' Smits)

And Rodman made the Bulls play 4-on-5 offensively, yet Jordan still achieved the #1 team offense.. Furthermore, Rodman was 36 years old and wasn't all-defense in 97' or 98', while averaging 4/8 for the entire 97' Playoffs (wasn't the starter in the 98' playoffs).. Rodman literally sucked and was old like 2010 Shaq

[ThiccBoi]

Horace Grant was not better than the opponent's 3rd best player - that's a lie



- Grant was destroyed by both Vlade and Perkins in the 1991 Finals...

- Kersey outplayed Grant in 1992 (and Kersey was a 20 ppg player that led the Blazers to the Finals in 1990 as 1st option)...

- Majerle was 3x all-star and destroys Grant (Majerle outplayed KJ in the 93' Finals, and both outplayed Grant)


Furthermore, the Bulls' GM was begging Seattle to take Pippen for Kemp.. Kemp was a legit #1 option that dominated the Finals and won FMVP votes from MJ, while Pippen averaged 15 on 34% and was outplayed by Schrempf..

kemp, penny, hill and many more were superior to Pippen, and Pippen was outplayed by 2nd options in 40% of playoff series (92' Xavier McDaniel.. 93' Kevin Willis.. 90' Dumars.. 95' Larry Johnson.. 96' Penny.. 96' Payton.. 97' Juwan Howard.. 97' Stockton.. 98' Smits)

And Rodman made the Bulls play 4-on-5 offensively, yet Jordan still achieved the #1 team offense.. Furthermore, Rodman was 36 years old and wasn't all-defense in 97' or 98', while averaging 4/8 for the entire 97' Playoffs (wasn't the starter in the 98' playoffs).. Rodman literally sucked and was old like 2010 Shaq

Bro just face it... Jordan played on stacked teams. His finals competition is pretty weak too.

Not to mention the weak ass era he played in. So many stiff 7ft centers. So many guards who couldnt dribble or shoot. So many forwards who could only rebound.

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[Axe]

Bro just face it... Jordan played on stacked teams. His finals competition is pretty weak too.

Not to mention the weak ass era he played in. So many stiff 7ft centers. So many guards who couldnt dribble or shoot. So many forwards who could only rebound.

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3ball does not have good reading comprehension

[SATAN]

Not to mention the weak ass era he played in.



According to Fox Sports, Sam Perkins, who played with Jordan at North Carolina with Team USA, recalls a time when a verbal lashing from coach Bobby Knight drove Jordan to tears during the 1984 Olympics.

"Bobby Knight, he got after us," Perkins said. "He told Michael that's the worst he ever played. Now Michael's going to deny this, but he cried. He cried after the game, because of the fact that Bobby Knight told him, 'You should apologize to everybody in here.' I waited for my apology because I thought he was going to actually do it. But he actually cried."

:milton