Titles with true 2nd options (sidekicks that average far less in championship)

[3ball]

.

Bryant (09', 10')
Hakeem (94', 95')
Duncan (03')
Shaq (00')
Dirk (11')
Bird (84')
Kareem (71')
Wade (06')

Jordan (91', 92', 93', 96', 97', 98')


One guy has clearly separated himself

[RRR3]

Wade averaged 16 PPG in the 2013 playoffs. Of course you left that out, Snivelball. Just like you left out the fact that you’re 5’3 and never went to a D1 college when you claimed you were a college basketball star.

[3ball]

Wade averaged 16 PPG in the 2013 playoffs. Of course you left that out, Snivelball. Just like you left out the fact that you’re 5’3 and never went to a D1 college when you claimed you were a college basketball star.


Can you read?

The title says "in the championship" - Wade averaged 20 ppg in the Finals, compared to 25 for Lebron

no one cares about carry-jobs versus bad teams, so the East Playoffs are irrelevant

Also, I played D1 and still dunk

[Overdrive]

If the chance presented itself would you have oral sexual intercourse with Michael Jordan knowing that Pippen would be more satiafying?

[RRR3]

Can you read?

The title says "in the championship" - Wade averaged 20 ppg in the Finals, compared to 25 for Lebron

no one cares about carry-jobs versus bad teams, so the East Playoffs are irrelevant

Also, I played D1 and still dunk
I literally exposed you as never playing D1 but ok. You can dunk at 5’3?

[3ball]

I literally exposed you as never playing D1 but ok. You can dunk at 5’3?


You didn't expose anything - you couldn't tell which player I was

Anyone can go back and see you tearing your hair out trying to figure out which d1 player I was

[SATAN]

Andy at it again

[3ball]

Andy at it again


Lebron's inability to shoot well at high volume (contested jumpshooting) requires a 1b sidekick to win - so he sucks compared to Kobe/MJ, who had the scoring ability to win with true 2nd options that score far less in the Finals

[SATAN]

Yawn

[3ball]

Yawn


Indeed, it's becoming common knowledge... :sleeping

[And1AllDay]

Wade averaged 16 PPG in the 2013 playoffs. Of course you left that out, Snivelball. Just like you left out the fact that you’re 5’3 and never went to a D1 college when you claimed you were a college basketball star.

:oldlol::roll:

[Pipes2.0]

1-9

No Pip, no chip.

[TheGoatest]

Definitely not these teams:

1991-92 Portland Blazers (Terry Porter, 18.1 ppg)
1992-93 Phoenix Suns (Dan Majerle, 16.9 ppg)
1996-97 Utah Jazz (Jeff Hornacek, 14.5 ppg)
1997-98 Utah Jazz (Jeff Hornacek, 14.2 ppg)

[warriorfan]

.

Bryant (09', 10')
Hakeem (94', 95')
Duncan (03')
Shaq (00')
Dirk (11')
Bird (84')
Kareem (71')
Wade (06')

Jordan (91', 92', 93', 96', 97', 98')


One guy has clearly separated himself

Klay Thompson scored 15 ppg in the 2015 Finals

[rmt]

Can you read?

The title says "in the championship" - Wade averaged 20 ppg in the Finals, compared to 25 for Lebron

no one cares about carry-jobs versus bad teams, so the East Playoffs are irrelevant

Also, I played D1 and still dunk

If your criteria is the Finals, you need to add 1999 to Duncan:

1999 Finals
Duncan 27.4 pts 14 rebs 2.4 asst 2.2 blks 53.7 FG%
DRob 16.6 pts 11.8 rebs 2.4 asst 3 blks 42.4 FG%

[dawsey6]

If your criteria is the Finals, you need to add 1999 to Duncan:

1999 Finals
Duncan 27.4 pts 14 rebs 2.4 asst 2.2 blks 53.7 FG%
DRob 16.6 pts 11.8 rebs 2.4 asst 3 blks 42.4 FG%

He'll only get that specific for LeBron so that he can try to prove that he's not as big as Beyoncé says he is.

[3ball]

If your criteria is the Finals, you need to add 1999 to Duncan:

1999 Finals
Duncan 27.4 pts 14 rebs 2.4 asst 2.2 blks 53.7 FG%
DRob 16.6 pts 11.8 rebs 2.4 asst 3 blks 42.4 FG%


I missed a few for sure

I was just trying to separate rings won with true 2nd options that average far less, from rings won with 1b's that average the same or a little less

rings with true 2nd options (more rare) are better rings than those won with 1b's (most rings are 1b rings)

1b's are often elite 1st options that are playing sidekick (Wade, AD, Kyrie), whereas true 2nd options aren't capable of elite 1st option production (Klay, Pippen, Jason Terry)..

Clearly, true 2nd options require the 1st option to undertake more volume - but lebron shoots poorly at high volume (more contested jumpshooting), so he can't win with 2nd options and needs a 1b

[SouBeachTalents]

Speaking of 2nd option scoring in the Finals

1991 Finals
Pippen: 21 ppg
Magic: 19 ppg
Worthy: 19 ppg (and missed a game)

1992 Finals
Pippen: 21 ppg
Porter: 16 ppg

1993 Finals
Pippen: 21 ppg
KJ: 17 ppg

1996 Finals
Pippen: 16 ppg
Payton: 18 ppg

1997 Finals
Pippen: 20 ppg
Stockton: 15 ppg

1998 Finals
Pippen: 16 ppg
Kukoc: 15 ppg
Hornacek: 11 ppg

He drones on and on about how much Pippen sucked, especially at scoring, yet he outscored the opposition's 2nd option in FIVE Finals :oldlol: And the one time he didn't, Rodman was getting consideration for FMVP

[tpols]

Speaking of 2nd option scoring in the Finals

1991 Finals
Pippen: 21 ppg
Magic: 19 ppg
Worthy: 19 ppg (and missed a game)

1992 Finals
Pippen: 21 ppg
Porter: 16 ppg

1993 Finals
Pippen: 21 ppg
KJ: 17 ppg

1996 Finals
Pippen: 16 ppg
Payton: 18 ppg

1997 Finals
Pippen: 20 ppg
Stockton: 15 ppg

1998 Finals
Pippen: 16 ppg
Kukoc: 15 ppg
Hornacek: 11 ppg

He drones on and on about how much Pippen sucked, especially at scoring, yet he outscored the opposition's 2nd option in FIVE Finals :oldlol: And the one time he didn't, Rodman was getting consideration for FMVP

Pippen is much better than given credit for at times but he simply isn't on the level of prime AD or Wade.

[dawsey6]

This exposition in specificity is truly museum-worthy.

[3ball]

Speaking of 2nd option scoring in the Finals

1991 Finals
Pippen: 21 ppg
Magic: 19 ppg
Worthy: 19 ppg (and missed a game)

1992 Finals
Pippen: 21 ppg
Porter: 16 ppg

1993 Finals
Pippen: 21 ppg
KJ: 17 ppg

1996 Finals
Pippen: 16 ppg
Payton: 18 ppg

1997 Finals
Pippen: 20 ppg
Stockton: 15 ppg

1998 Finals
Pippen: 16 ppg
Kukoc: 15 ppg
Hornacek: 11 ppg

He drones on and on about how much Pippen sucked, especially at scoring, yet he outscored the opposition's 2nd option in FIVE Finals :oldlol: And the one time he didn't, Rodman was getting consideration for FMVP


Rank the following:


A) 2nd option outscores opposing 2nd option

B) 2nd option outscores entire league (2020 AD)

C) 2nd option outscores opposing 1st option (Kyrie in 16' Finals... Wade in 11' and 13' Finals)


Dust off that GED bud.

It's common for the winning Finals team to have their 2nd option outscore the opposing 2nd option, but it's completely uncommon/fraudulent for a 2nd option to outscore the entire league (AD in 2020 Playoffs), or the opposing 1st option in the Finals (16' Kyrie... 11' and 13' Wade).

So Lebron needed more help to win and this is further evidence.

Furthermore, Pippen was frequently outscored in earlier rounds where lesser opponents didn't have 3rd and 4th options to reduce 2nd option's stats... But the Finals opponents were deeper with 3rd and 4th scorers that took away from the 2nd option.. This isn't bullshit - the 93' Suns had 3 offensive all-stars, while the 96' Sonics had a 3 all-nba players... The 91' Lakers had 4 players average 17+ in the Finals...

The 92' Blazers were deep as shit with Jerome Kersey at 4th option, who was 1st option when the Blazers made the 90' Finals... Finally, the 97' Finals saw Pippen average 19/3 on 42%, compared to 15/9 on 50% for Stockton (pippen was bad in the 97' Finals and last in clutch points behind Ostertag).

Overall, Pippen was outplayed by the following #2 options.... 90' ECF (Dumars)... 92' ECSF (X-Man)... 93' 1st Round... (Willis)... 94' ECSF (Ewing)... 95' 1st Round (L Johnson)... 96' ECSF (Oakley)... 96' ECF (Penny)... 96' Finals (Payton)... 97' 1st Round (J Howard)... 97' Finals (Stockton)... 98' ECF (Smits).. 99' 1st Round (Kobe)

[3ball]

.
THREAD CLIFFS


Rings won with true 2nd options that average far less should be differentiated from rings won with 1b's that average the same or a little less

rings with true 2nd options (more rare) are better rings than those won with 1b's (most rings are 1b rings)

1b's are often elite 1st options that are playing sidekick (Wade, AD, Kyrie), whereas true 2nd options aren't capable of elite 1st option production (Klay, Pippen, Jason Terry)..

Clearly, true 2nd options require the 1st option to undertake more volume - but lebron shoots poorly at high volume (more contested jumpshooting), so he can't win with 2nd options and needs a 1b

[HBK_Kliq_2]

2019 Kawhi deserves to be on this list if you're going to put 1984 Larry Bird and 2011 Dirk on it.

Kawhi is +9 on PPG over Siakam
Bird is +9 on PPG over Dennis Johnson
Dirk is +8 on PPG over Jason Terry

[Hey Yo]

Can you read?

The title says "in the championship" - Wade averaged 20 ppg in the Finals, compared to 25 for Lebron

no one cares about carry-jobs versus bad teams, so the East Playoffs are irrelevant

Also, I played D1 and still dunk

Wade avg 19.6ppg and you call it 20ppg

James shot 39.8% in the 2015 Finals and you always refer to it being 39%

Why is that? Massive insecurity?

[3ball]

.
CAREER REGULAR SEASON

Wade.'.... 22.0.. 4.7.. 5.4.. 55.4 ts.. 23.5 PER.. 0.160 ws/48.. 5.0 BPM
Pippen... 16.1.. 6.4.. 5.2.. 53.6 ts.. 18.6 PER.. 0.146 ws/48.. 4.1 BPM

Kyrie...... 22.4.. 3.7.. 5.7.. 57.2 ts.. 22.2 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 4.5 BPM
Pippen... 16.1.. 6.4.. 5.2.. 53.6 ts.. 18.6 PER.. 0.146 ws/48.. 4.1 BPM

AD.......... 24.0.. 10.4.. 2.2.. 58.8 ts.. 27.4 PER.. 0.219 ws/48.. 6.3 BPM
Pippen... 16.1.... 6.4.. 5.2.. 53.6 ts.. 18.6 PER.. 0.146 ws/48.. 4.1 BPM


CAREER PLAYOFFS

Wade.'.... 22.3.. 5.2.. 4.9.. 54.9 ts.. 22.4 PER.. 0.155 ws/48.. 5.3 BPM
Pippen... 17.5.. 7.6.. 5.0.. 53.6 ts.. 18.4 PER.. 0.140 ws/48.. 4.9 BPM

Kyrie...... 23.5.. 3.3.. 5.0.. 56.0 ts.. 21.4 PER.. 0.169 ws/48.. 4.2 BPM
Pippen... 17.5.. 7.6.. 5.0.. 53.6 ts.. 18.4 PER.. 0.140 ws/48.. 4.9 BPM

AD.......... 28.8.. 10.8.. 2.8.. 63.3 ts.. 28.4 PER.. 0.243 ws/48.. 7.4 BPM
Pippen... 17.5.... 7.6.. 5.0.. 53.6 ts.. 18.4 PER.. 0.140 ws/48.. 4.9 BPM


CAREER FINALS

Kyrie........ 28/4/4 on 47%
AD.....'...... 25/9/4 on 57%
Wade....... 24/5/5 on 47%
Pippen...'. 19/8/6 on 42%

Jordan.... 34/6/6 on 48%
Lebron.... 28/9/8 on 48%

(edit: lebron 28/10/8 in Finals)




Pippen is much better than given credit for at times but he simply isn't on the level of prime AD or Wade.


1997 Finals

Pippen........ 19/6/3 on 42%... last in clutch pts behind Ostertag
Stockton..'.. 15/4/9 on 50%... 2nd in clutch pts behind MJ


Pippen was horrible in the 97' Finals, so MJ was forced to make game-winning plays in 3 of the games.. Pippen also sucked in the 96' Finals and he underperformed in the 93' Finals (45% true shooting.. missed FT's cost Game 5.. let Dumas go off)

And Pippen was frequently outscored in earlier rounds where lesser opponents didn't have 3rd and 4th options to reduce 2nd option's stats... But the Finals opponents were deeper with 3rd and 4th scorers that took away from the 2nd option - the 93' Suns had 3 offensive all-stars, while the 96' Sonics had a 3 all-nba players... The 91' Lakers had 4 players average 17+ in the Finals...



Pippen is much better than given credit for at times but he simply isn't on the level of prime AD or Wade.


Pippen was outplayed by the following #2 options:

- 90' ECF (Dumars)
- 92' ECSF (X-Man)
- 93' 1st Round... (Willis)
- 94' ECSF (Ewing)
- 95' 1st Round (L Johnson)
- 96' ECSF (Oakley)
- 96' ECF (Penny)
- 96' Finals (Payton)
- 97' 1st Round (J Howard)
- 97' Finals (Stockton)
- 98' ECF (Smits)
- 99' 1st Round (Kobe)






Pippen isn't on the level of prime AD or Wade.





2012 Wade had higher PER, BPM, VORP and WS/48 than Pippen ever did!!

And Kyrie is a better scorer, passer and clutch player than Pippen, as the stats show above

ultimately, Wade, Kyrie, AD and Love have higher PER, WS/48, BPM, and peak VORP than Pippen