Finals MVPS with no top 5 draft picks or top 5 MVP candidate (Hakeem and Kawhi)

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I consider a carry job as when a player didn't have one single player who was a top 5 draft pick or at one point in his career was a top 5 MVP candidate.

We will go from the last 29 years (1991 - present)

1991 - Jordan had Pippen who was a top 5 MVP candidate
1992 - Jordan had Pippen who was a top 5 MVP candidate
1993 - Jordan had Pippen who was a top 5 MVP candidate
1994 - Hakeem had nobody who was a top 5 MVP candidate or top 5 draft pick
1995 - Hakeem had Clyde who was a top 5 MVP candidate
1996 - Jordan had Pippen who was a top 5 MVP candidate
1997 - Jordan had Pippen who was a top 5 MVP candidate
1998 - Jordan had Pippen who was a top 5 MVP candidate
1999 - Duncan had Robinson who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2000 - Shaq had Kobe who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2001 - Shaq had Kobe who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2002 - Shaq had Kobe who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2003 - Duncan had Tony Parker who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2004 - Billups had Rasheed Wallace who was a top 5 draft pick
2005 - Duncan had Tony Parker who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2006 - Wade had Shaq who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2007 - Duncan had Tony Parker who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2008 - Paul Pierce had Kevin Garnett who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2009 - Kobe had Pau Gasol who was a top 5 draft pick
2010 - Kobe had Pau Gasol who was a top 5 draft pick
2011 - Dirk had Jason Kidd who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2012 - Lebron had Wade who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2013 - Lebron had Wade who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2014 - Kawhi had Duncan who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2015 - Curry had Bogut who was a top 5 draft pick
2016 - Lebron had Irving who was a top 5 draft pick
2017 - Durant had Curry who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2018 - Durant had Curry who was a top 5 MVP candidate
2019 - Kawhi had nobody who was a top 5 MVP candidate or top 5 draft pick
2020 - Lebron had Davis who was a top 5 draft pick

So the biggest carry jobs based on having a roster without any top 5 MVP candidates or top 5 draft picks? That title belongs to Hakeem and Kawhi who also happened to be the only players ever with multiple defensive player of the year and finals MVP awards. The two most dominant two players of all time in Hakeem\Kawhi, give them no talent and they will still win the finals MVP. Wow.

[SouBeachTalents]

Pretty impressive that team with no top 5 MVP candidates or top 5 draft picks won at a 60 win pace without Kawhi and advanced as far in the playoffs as he did

[Airupthere]

I think it's more relevant if you can only show top 5 MVP candidate for the respective year. As for top 5 draft pick, I don't think that should matter much given that a top draft player can just suck throughout his career.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Pretty impressive that team with no top 5 MVP candidates or top 5 draft picks won at a 60 win pace without Kawhi and advanced as far in the playoffs as he did

The championship core Lowry/Vanvleet/siamam have like a 2-8 record when they play this year.

Kawhi's team just didn't fall off as bad because LeBron never won with them in the first place (his first cabs run) or because Irving left his ass.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I think it's more relevant if you can only show top 5 MVP candidate for the respective year. As for top 5 draft pick, I don't think that should matter much given that a top draft player can just suck throughout his career.

The talent was still there though. 2014 spurs had a bunch of washed up bums but people still think they were good because their reputation.

[8Ball]

Pretty impressive that team with no top 5 MVP candidates or top 5 draft picks won at a 60 win pace without Kawhi and advanced as far in the playoffs as he did

Jordan was gifted a 55 win team.

Kawhi was gifted a 60 win team.

Clippers were a 48 win team without Kawhi. Add Kawhi + PG.

Kawhi has done the least out of all the top 40 players considering how stacked the team was before he joined.

[3ball]

Jordan was gifted a 55 win team.

Kawhi was gifted a 60 win team.

Clippers were a 48 win team without Kawhi. Add Kawhi + PG.

Kawhi has done the least out of all the top 40 players considering how stacked the team was before he joined.


Jordan developed a system, brand of basketball and 3-peat caliber that was effective enough to win 55 without him

Ultimately, the triangle was a 55-win offense if run to perfection, but only jordan or his clone (kobe) could actually WIN with it

[3ball]

.
The gap between 11' Dirk and his 2nd option...

versus the gap between MJ and Pip


PLAYOFFS


11' Dirk'........ 27.7 ppg.. 25.2 PER.. 5.5 BPM.. 1.6 VORP.. 0.210 WS/48
11' Terry....... 17.5 ppg.. 20.3 PER.. 4.6 BPM.. 1.1 VORP.. 0.179 WS/48
GAP............... 10.2...........4.9.............1.1.......... 0.5............ 0.031

93' Jordan... 35.1 ppg.. 30.1 PER.. 11.6 BPM.. 2.9 VORP.. 0.270 WS/48
93' Pippen... 20.1 ppg.. 16.9 PER.... 2.0 BPM.. 0.8 VORP.. 0.083 WS/48
GAP.............. 15.0...........13.2............ 9.6........... 2.1............ 0.187

92' Jordan... 34.5 ppg.. 27.2 PER.... 9.9 BPM.. 2.8 VORP.. 0.216 WS/48
92' Pippen... 19.5 ppg.. 20.1 PER.... 6.6 BPM.. 2.0 VORP.. 0.168 WS/48
GAP.............. 15.0.............7.1............ 3.3........... 0.8............ 0.048

91' Jordan... 31.1 ppg.. 32.0 PER.. 14.6 BPM.. 2.9 VORP.. 0.333 WS/48
91' Pippen... 21.6 ppg.. 22.0 PER.... 6.5 BPM.. 1.5 VORP.. 0.197 WS/48
GAP................. 9.5..........10.0............ 8.1........... 1.4............ 0.136

96' Jordan... 30.7 ppg.. 26.7 PER.. 10.7 BPM.. 2.4 VORP.. 0.317 WS/48
96' Pippen... 16.9 ppg.. 19.4 PER.... 7.8 BPM.. 1.8 VORP.. 0.195 WS/48
GAP.............. 13.8.............7.3............ 2.9........... 0.6............ 0.122

97' Jordan... 31.1 ppg.. 27.1 PER.... 9.9 BPM.. 2.4 VORP.. 0.235 WS/48
97' Pippen... 19.2 ppg.. 18.1 PER.... 5.1 BPM.. 1.4 VORP.. 0.145 WS/48
GAP.............. 11.9.............9.1............ 4.8........... 1.0............ 0.090

98' Jordan... 32.4 ppg.. 28.1 PER.... 9.0 BPM.. 2.4 VORP.. 0.265 WS/48
98' Pippen... 16.8 ppg.. 19.4 PER.... 5.6 BPM.. 1.6 VORP.. 0.166 WS/48
GAP.............. 16.4.............8.7............ 3.4........... 0.8............ 0.095



Conclusion - Jordan had 6 carry-job rings that were far greater carry-jobs than 11' Dirk

And Pippen's production-level was the same as Jason Terry's

[AirBonner]

Kawhi in 2019 was better than 2nd 3-peat MJ

[3ball]

Kawhi in 2019 was better than 2nd 3-peat MJ


Playoffs

2019 Siakam..'.. 19.0 on 50%

1996 Pippen..... 16.9 on 39%
1997 Pippen..... 19.2 on 41%
1998 Pippen..... 16.8 on 41%


2019 Lowry.... 15.0 on 44% (5x all-star at 3rd option)

1996 Kukoc.... 10.8 on 39%
1997 Kukoc...... 7.9 on 36%
1998 Kukoc...'. 13.2 on 49%


^^^ Jordan carried a bigger load because his 2nd and 3rd options produced far less (above), so he was forced to score more ppg than 19' Kawhi and a much higher percentage of his team's points.. Jordan also had higher PER and WS/48 in 1998 and led the league in clutch points every year by wide margins (took over every game)

[Axe]

Op and 3ball.

The dunce duo of this board.

[3ball]

Playoffs

2019 Siakam..'.. 19.0 on 50%

1996 Pippen..... 16.9 on 39%
1997 Pippen..... 19.2 on 41%
1998 Pippen..... 16.8 on 41%


2019 Lowry.... 15.0 on 44% (5x all-star at 3rd option)

1996 Kukoc.... 10.8 on 39%
1997 Kukoc...... 7.9 on 36%
1998 Kukoc...'. 13.2 on 49%


^^^ Jordan carried a bigger load because his 2nd and 3rd options produced far less (above), so he was forced to score more ppg than 19' Kawhi and a much higher percentage of his team's points.. Jordan also had higher PER and WS/48 in 98' Playoffs and led the league in clutch points by wide margins every year (took over every game)





No one

[Akeem34TheDream]

Great thread OP.