Everyone had a 1b for at least half their rings

[3ball]

except the goat, who won all rings with a "true" 2nd option that averaged far less in the championship.

I guess Hakeem's rings didn't have 1b's, so that's the 1 exception.

It can be argued that lebron has 2 rings with 2nd options but that's only half his rings and both were with 2 stars (12' and 13') - he has no rings with a true 2nd option as the only star teammate (like Hakeem's rings).

Ultimately, lebron can't win with a true 2nd option unless he has a 2nd star teammate because he can't shoot well at the higher volumes required (more contested jumpshooting).. only guys that make tons of contested jumpers can win with true 2nd options and no 2nd star (Hakeem, Dirk, MJ, Kobe)

[Axe]

No pip?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Hakeem, Dirk, MJ, Barry

[FultzNationRISE]

Hakeem, Dirk, MJ, Barry

Lebron

[3ball]

Lebron


Career Finals

Lebron... 28 ppg
Kyrie...... 28 ppg


2016 Playoffs

Lebron... 26.2
Kyrie...... 25.8




Lebron


It can be argued that lebron has 2 rings with 2nd options but that's only half his rings and both were with 2 stars (12' and 13') - he has no rings with a true 2nd option as the only star teammate (like Hakeem's rings).

Ultimately, lebron can't win with a true 2nd option unless he has a 2nd star teammate because he can't shoot well at the higher volumes required (more contested jumpshooting).. only guys that make tons of contested jumpers can win with true 2nd options and no 2nd star (Hakeem, Dirk, MJ, Kobe)

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Career Finals

Lebron... 28 ppg
Kyrie...... 28 ppg


2016 Playoffs

Lebron... 26.2
Kyrie...... 25.8

You forgot to mention Rick Barry babyboi

[3ball]

You forgot to mention Rick Barry babyboi


You forgot to mention Kobe

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

You forgot to mention Kobe

Trueeee

[3ball]

No pip?


rings with 1b < rings with 2nd option

Jordan has six rings with 2nd option, so that's 4 more than Lebron

And lebron actually has none because he had a 2nd star teammate both times in 12' and 13' (like two 2nd options)

Ultimately, lebron can't win with a true 2nd option unless he has a 2nd star teammate because he can't shoot well at the higher volumes required (more contested jumpshooting).. only guys that make tons of contested jumpers can win with true 2nd options and no 2nd star (Hakeem, Dirk, MJ, Kobe)

TLDR - lebron needs a 1b or 2nd star teammate to win

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

rings with 1b < rings with 2nd option

Jordan has six rings with 2nd option, so that's 4 more than Lebron

And lebron actually has none because he had a 2nd star teammate both times in 12' and 13' (like two 2nd options)

Ultimately, lebron can't win with a true 2nd option unless he has a 2nd star teammate because he can't shoot well at the higher volumes required (more contested jumpshooting).. only guys that make tons of contested jumpers can win with true 2nd options and no 2nd star (Hakeem, Dirk, MJ, Kobe)

TLDR - lebron needs a 1b or 2nd star teammate to win

Did babyboi say contested jumpers?

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Warriors_Legend_Rick_Barry_Full_Game_3_Highlights_ vs_Bullets_1975_NBA_Finals_-1.gif

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Warriors_Legend_Rick_Barry_Full_Game_3_Highlights_ vs_Bullets_1975_NBA_Finals_.gif

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Warriors_Legend_Rick_Barry_Full_Game_3_Highlights_ vs_Bullets_1975_NBA_Finals_-2.gif

[SATAN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9aAWKTjG2A

[Nowitness]

Tim Duncan won 4 rings without a teammate making an All-NBA team, the next closest is Magic with 2, and he played when there was only 2 All-NBA teams. 03/05/07 he had no 1B.

Hakeem had Clyde the second time.

[Axe]

rings with 1b < rings with 2nd option

Jordan has six rings with 2nd option, so that's 4 more than Lebron

And lebron actually has none because he had a 2nd star teammate both times in 12' and 13' (like two 2nd options)

Ultimately, lebron can't win with a true 2nd option unless he has a 2nd star teammate because he can't shoot well at the higher volumes required (more contested jumpshooting).. only guys that make tons of contested jumpers can win with true 2nd options and no 2nd star (Hakeem, Dirk, MJ, Kobe)

TLDR - lebron needs a 1b or 2nd star teammate to win
So no chip? Ah ok

[light]

except the goat, who won all rings with a "true" 2nd option that averaged far less in the championship.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

Michael Jordan himself, in the middle of the 1995-96 season, saying that the Chicago Bulls are Scottie Pippen's team and that Scottie Pippen is probably the best player in the entire game.

That makes Michael Jordan the sidekick or 1b in 1995-96.

Looks like you dun goofed again.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png
Damn

[rawimpact]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

Michael Jordan himself, in the middle of the 1995-96 season, saying that the Chicago Bulls are Scottie Pippen's team and that Scottie Pippen is probably the best player in the entire game.

That makes Michael Jordan the sidekick or 1b in 1995-96.

Looks like you dun goofed again.

Oh shit,

It's OVERRR

[Manny98]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

Michael Jordan himself, in the middle of the 1995-96 season, saying that the Chicago Bulls are Scottie Pippen's team and that Scottie Pippen is probably the best player in the entire game.

That makes Michael Jordan the sidekick or 1b in 1995-96.

Looks like you dun goofed again.
Every time 3ball posts anything just respond with this :lol

[3ball]

.
The gap between 11' Dirk and his 2nd option... versus the gap between MJ and Pip


PLAYOFFS


11' Dirk'........ 27.7 ppg.. 25.2 PER.. 5.5 BPM.. 1.6 VORP.. 0.210 WS/48
11' Terry....... 17.5 ppg.. 20.3 PER.. 4.6 BPM.. 1.1 VORP.. 0.179 WS/48
GAP............... 10.2...........4.9.............1.1.......... 0.5............ 0.031

93' Jordan... 35.1 ppg.. 30.1 PER.. 11.6 BPM.. 2.9 VORP.. 0.270 WS/48
93' Pippen... 20.1 ppg.. 16.9 PER.... 2.0 BPM.. 0.8 VORP.. 0.083 WS/48
GAP.............. 15.0...........13.2............ 9.6........... 2.1............ 0.187

92' Jordan... 34.5 ppg.. 27.2 PER.... 9.9 BPM.. 2.8 VORP.. 0.216 WS/48
92' Pippen... 19.5 ppg.. 20.1 PER.... 6.6 BPM.. 2.0 VORP.. 0.168 WS/48
GAP.............. 15.0.............7.1............ 3.3........... 0.8............ 0.048

91' Jordan... 31.1 ppg.. 32.0 PER.. 14.6 BPM.. 2.9 VORP.. 0.333 WS/48
91' Pippen... 21.6 ppg.. 22.0 PER.... 6.5 BPM.. 1.5 VORP.. 0.197 WS/48
GAP................. 9.5..........10.0............ 8.1........... 1.4............ 0.136

96' Jordan... 30.7 ppg.. 26.7 PER.. 10.7 BPM.. 2.4 VORP.. 0.317 WS/48
96' Pippen... 16.9 ppg.. 19.4 PER.... 7.8 BPM.. 1.8 VORP.. 0.195 WS/48
GAP.............. 13.8.............7.3............ 2.9........... 0.6............ 0.122

97' Jordan... 31.1 ppg.. 27.1 PER.... 9.9 BPM.. 2.4 VORP.. 0.235 WS/48
97' Pippen... 19.2 ppg.. 18.1 PER.... 5.1 BPM.. 1.4 VORP.. 0.145 WS/48
GAP.............. 11.9.............9.1............ 4.8........... 1.0............ 0.090

98' Jordan... 32.4 ppg.. 28.1 PER.... 9.0 BPM.. 2.4 VORP.. 0.265 WS/48
98' Pippen... 16.8 ppg.. 19.4 PER.... 5.6 BPM.. 1.6 VORP.. 0.166 WS/48
GAP.............. 16.4.............8.7............ 3.4........... 0.8............ 0.095



Conclusion - Jordan had 6 carry-job rings that were far greater carry-jobs than 11' Dirk, and Pippen's production was equal to Jason Terry most years.

And there's never been a bigger gap between #1 and #2 options

[3ball]

Every time 3ball posts anything just respond with this :lol


There's no need to respond to that because Jordan's politically correct statements to boost poor migraine pippen mean nothing compared to the RESULTS, which show that pippen averaged far less in every championship - all 6 rings were far bigger carry-jobs than 11' Dirk, shown above.. pippen's production was frequently equal or less than Jason Terry

[SouBeachTalents]

There's no need to respond to that because Jordan's politically correct statements to boost poor migraine pippen mean nothing compared to the RESULTS, which show that pippen averaged far less in every championship - all 6 rings were far bigger carry-jobs than 11' Dirk, shown above.. pippen's production was frequently equal or less than Jason Terry
https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

[8Ball]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

Nail to the coffin.

There's nothing left to discuss.

[8Ball]

More quotes to that article:


Pippen said. "Phil runs the offense through me, so I'm the floor leader out there."

Jordan was playing under Pippen-Ball.

[3ball]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png


lebron said he got AD to do everything in a conversation with Obama

he also said that he thought Kyrie was league MVP and wanted Kyrie to win the award in Cleveland

1st options throw charity to their sidekick.. it's standard and not an argument

Ultimately, the stats are what matters (the results), and everyone needed a 1b except Jordan, who won every ring with a true 2nd option that averaged far less

[Uncle Drew]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

Michael Jordan himself, in the middle of the 1995-96 season, saying that the Chicago Bulls are Scottie Pippen's team and that Scottie Pippen is probably the best player in the entire game.

That makes Michael Jordan the sidekick or 1b in 1995-96.

Looks like you dun goofed again.

:roll:

Nail in the coffin.

[3ball]

:roll:

Nail in the coffin.



Everyone needed a 1b except the goat

Carry on

[3ball]

.
.

PLAYOFF PPG


1988 McHale.... 25.4
1988 Bird.......... 24.5

1986 McHale.... 24.9
1986 Bird.......... 25.1

2011 Wade...... 24.5
2011 Lebron.... 23.7

2020 Davis.'..... 27.8
2020 Lebron.... 27.7

2016 Kyrie'...... 25.8
2016 Lebron... 26.2

1987 Worthy.... 23.6
1987 Magic...'.. 21.1


^^^ Lebron, Magic and everyone in history are "pippens" because they needed a "jordan" (someone capable of outscoring them).. Jordan is the only guy that just needed a pippen - someone that averaged 10-30 less in every series (with less apg).. Jordan infact invented the idea of "carry-jobs" when he first came on the scene - it was his claim to fame and what differentiated him from bird/magic/isiah (who had equal-scoring teammates).

And equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his #1 ranked PER, BPM, WS/48, and also VORP seasons).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s


Finally, Lebron was a 1-trick pony before the "decision", with only 1 Finals run like Iverson, Dwight, and Kidd... Then Wade, AD, and Kyrie elevated him to champion - so this idea that lebron brings guys titles and therefore "makes guys better" is false - teaming up doesn't equal "making guys better" - it's just stacking the deck and talent-based winning.... virtually none of his primary teammates improved statistically alongside him because his skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team--hopping, talent-based winning)..

Talent-based winning loses to organic ball movement, so lebron has a lottery record vs Mavs, Spurs and Warriors.. ultimately, his kryptonite is his imposition of spot-up roles and resulting inability to grow an organic brand - his skillset can't develop a sophisticated organic brand or ball movement, so he's susceptible to losing to it in the absence of excessive talent advantage (talent-based winning 4/10.. AAU in the NBA, best recruiter wins)..

[Uncle Drew]

Everyone needed a 1b except the goat

Carry on

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

[3ball]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png


Bullshit comments that mean nothing.

You can't refute the facts

Only Jordan won with a true 2nd option

The stats tell the story

Carry on

[Uncle Drew]

Bullshit comments that mean nothing.

You can't refute the facts

Only Jordan won with a true 2nd option

The stats tell the story

Carry on

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

[3ball]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png


3ball wins because you have no comeback

The only comeback is to use stats, which you can't

Only stats can refute the OP, not bullshit comments that no one believed then or now

[3ball]

.

PLAYOFF PPG


1988 McHale.... 25.4
1988 Bird.......... 24.5

1986 McHale.... 24.9
1986 Bird.......... 25.1

2011 Wade...... 24.5
2011 Lebron.... 23.7

2020 Davis.'..... 27.8
2020 Lebron.... 27.7

2016 Kyrie'...... 25.8
2016 Lebron... 26.2

1987 Worthy.... 23.6
1987 Magic...'.. 21.1


^^^ Lebron, Magic and everyone in history are "pippens" because they needed a "jordan" (someone capable of outscoring them).. Jordan is the only guy that just needed a pippen - someone that averaged 10-30 less in every series (with less apg).. Jordan infact invented the idea of "carry-jobs" when he first came on the scene - it was his claim to fame and what differentiated him from bird/magic/isiah (who had equal-scoring teammates).

And equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his #1 ranked PER, BPM, WS/48, and also VORP seasons).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s

[Uncle Drew]

3ball wins because you have no comeback

The only comeback is to use stats, which you can't

Only stats can refute the OP, not bullshit comments that no one believed then or now

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

[3ball]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png


Nope.. words don't trump stats/performance/results

Only Jordan won with a 2nd option everytime... everyone else's sidekicks were 1st options that sometimes led in scoring:

(Kobe/Shaq... Magic/Kareem... Isiah/Dumars... Lebron/AD... Lebron/Wade... Lebron/Kyrie... Duncan/Parker... Bird/McHale... etc... etc)

[Uncle Drew]

Nope.. words don't trump stats/performance/results

Only Jordan won with a 2nd option everytime... everyone else's sidekicks were 1st options that sometimes led in scoring:

(Kobe/Shaq... Magic/Kareem... Isiah/Dumars... Lebron/AD... Lebron/Wade... Lebron/Kyrie... Duncan/Parker... Bird/McHale... etc... etc)

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

[light]

Nope.. words don't trump stats/performance/results

Only Jordan won with a 2nd option everytime... everyone else's sidekicks were 1st options that sometimes led in scoring:

(Kobe/Shaq... Magic/Kareem... Isiah/Dumars... Lebron/AD... Lebron/Wade... Lebron/Kyrie... Duncan/Parker... Bird/McHale... etc... etc)

USA Today’s midseason analysis of the 1996 Chicago Bulls:

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Screen-Shot-2021-02-01-at-4.06.53-AM.png

[3ball]

USA Today’s midseason analysis of the 1996 Chicago Bulls:

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Screen-Shot-2021-02-01-at-4.06.53-AM.png


^^^^ Everyone in Chicago was in on that..

it was cumbaya talk to help unite the Bulls for a championship run.. it's smart

but ultimately, the stats tell the story... Pippen averaged 15 on 34% in those Finals and 16.9 on 39% for the whole 96' playoffs... :eek:


Career Finals ppg

Lebron.... 28
Kyrie....... 28
AD.......... 25
Wade..... 24

Jordan.... 34
Pippen.... 19

[Hey Yo]

Kyrie avg. 26.3ppg over his 3 Finals appearances. You constantly having to fudge the numbers shows how shook you are.

[3ball]

Kyrie avg. 26.3ppg over his 3 Finals appearances. You constantly having to fudge the numbers shows how shook you are.


Kyrie has averaged 27.7 points, 4.2 assists and 4.2 rebounds in 13 games in the NBA Finals in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kyrie-irving-finals-stats

[light]

^^^^ Everyone in Chicago was in on that..

it was cumbaya talk to help unite the Bulls for a championship run.. it's smart

but ultimately, the stats tell the story... Pippen averaged 15 on 34% in those Finals and 16.9 on 39% for the whole 96' playoffs... :eek:


Career Finals ppg

Lebron.... 28
Kyrie....... 28
AD.......... 25
Wade..... 24

Jordan.... 34
Pippen.... 19

Scottie Pippen Midseason Evaluation 1996:

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Pippen-evaluation.png

[Hey Yo]

23ppg in 2015

27ppg in 2016

29ppg in 2017

That's 79 points, divided by 3 = 26.3ppg

[3ball]

23ppg in 2015

27ppg in 2016

29ppg in 2017

That's 79 points, divided by 3 = 26.3ppg


No add up the total points for all the games and divide by the number of games (13)

That would give you 28 ppg... Same as lebron... aka 1a/1b

[BigKobeFan]

There's no need to respond to that because Jordan's politically correct statements to boost poor migraine pippen mean nothing compared to the RESULTS, which show that pippen averaged far less in every championship - all 6 rings were far bigger carry-jobs than 11' Dirk, shown above.. pippen's production was frequently equal or less than Jason Terry

If you need another player to relinquish the team with a verbal statement, it is not your team.

People know who's team it is without having it said. Like Kobe's team, shaqs team, luka's team, bird's team

It was always wade's team

[3ball]

Scottie Pippen Midseason Evaluation 1996:

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Pippen-evaluation.png


^^^ Again, cumbaya garbage by the home team paper to promote team unity, which no one believed then or now



96' Pippen Playoffs.... 16.9 on 39%

96' Pippen Finals........ 15.7 on 34%


^^^ Only Jordan could win a Finals with that help

Remember, Jordan beat 5 good teams (top 5 SRS) with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (carry-jobs), while lebron has zero (zero carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing)

[SouBeachTalents]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Screen-Shot-2021-02-01-at-4.06.53-AM.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Pippen-evaluation.png
Destroying 3ball's life work with every article you post :applause:

[3ball]

Destroying 3ball's life work with every article you post :applause:


What matters more - bullshit statements by a nerdy reporter, or this:



96' Pippen Playoffs.... 16.9 on 39%

96' Pippen Finals........ 15.7 on 34%


Carry on

[8Ball]

Scottie Pippen Midseason Evaluation 1996:

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Pippen-evaluation.png

:applause:

[8Ball]

Destroying 3ball's life work with every article you post :applause:

Imagine spending 10 years compiling 100 pages of copy paste material and realizing its all dog shit.

[SouBeachTalents]

What matters more - bullshit statements by a nerdy reporter, or this:



96' Pippen Playoffs.... 16.9 on 39%

96' Pippen Finals........ 15.7 on 34%


Carry on
Jordan's Finals were nothing to write home about

[8Ball]

3ball wins because you have no comeback

The only comeback is to use stats, which you can't

Only stats can refute the OP, not bullshit comments that no one believed then or now

IT WAS SCOTTIE'S TEAM

Jordan played under Pippen-Ball.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

[8Ball]

3ball right now in this thread:

https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/trump-melt-final.jpg?quality=85&w=840

[3ball]

Jordan's Finals were nothing to write home about


Career Finals ppg

Lebron.... 28
Kyrie....... 28
AD.......... 25
Wade..... 24

Jordan.... 34
Pippen.... 19


Lebron clearly plays with 1b's, while Jordan's were bigger carry-jobs than 11' Dirk.. much bigger

Jordan has the goat Finals average and PER

[light]

In 1996 Steve Kerr was asked who's better, Michael Jordan or Scottie Pippen:

“Michael and Scottie are totally different in what they do and yet their effects on the game are similar. So it’s a tough comparison to say who’s better.”


In 1996 Mitch Richmond was asked who's better, Michael Jordan or Scottie Pippen:

“Scottie and Michael are in the top five or six guys in this game. You can’t really distinguish who’s best. They’re both good.”


In 1996 Grant Hill was asked who's better, Michael Jordan or Scottie Pippen:

“They’re both great. Scottie’s really stepped his game up. He was a superstar, but now he’s even a level above. It’s no wonder that team is as good as they are because they’ve got the two best players in the game.”

[3ball]

In 1996 Steve Kerr was asked who's better, Michael Jordan or Scottie Pippen:

“Michael and Scottie are totally different in what they do and yet their effects on the game are similar. So it’s a tough comparison to say who’s better.”


In 1996 Mitch Richmond was asked who's better, Michael Jordan or Scottie Pippen:

“Scottie and Michael are in the top five or six guys in this game. You can’t really distinguish who’s best. They’re both good.”


In 1996 Grant Hill was asked who's better, Michael Jordan or Scottie Pippen:

“They’re both great. Scottie’s really stepped his game up. He was a superstar, but now he’s even a level above. It’s no wonder that team is as good as they are because they’ve got the two best players in the game.”


grant hill knew he was better than pippen and pippen was Grant's bitch whenever they played..

So it's all bullshit political speak - kissing MJ's team ass

Pippen averaged 16.9 on 39% in the 96' Playoffs..

This includes 15 on 33% in the ECSF and Finals

[light]

it's all bullshit political speak - grant hill knew he was better than pippen and pippen was Grant's bitch.. this is widespread common knowledge

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/mvp-favorite-scottie-pippen.png

The only MVP favorite on all of LeBron's teams has been LeBron.

[3ball]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/mvp-favorite-scottie-pippen.png

The only MVP favorite on all of LeBron's teams has been LeBron.


Pippen was never considered for MVP... ever

Otoh, Wade would've won Finals MVP in 2011

and AD was most people's MVP in the 2020 Western Playoffs and Finals

All the articles in the world won't change the stats - Lebron and everyone in history needed equal scoring teammates for half of their rings.... except Jordan, who averaged 10-30 more than pippen in every series.

[Hey Yo]

RIP 3ball


https://media1.giphy.com/media/Wr2747CnxwBSqyK6xt/giphy.gif

[3ball]

RIP 3ball


https://media1.giphy.com/media/Wr2747CnxwBSqyK6xt/giphy.gif


I'm pitching a shut out because you can't refute the stats

Lebron and everyone in history needed equal scoring teammates for half of their rings....

Only Jordan won every ring with a true 2nd option that averaged far less

[rmt]

IT WAS SCOTTIE'S TEAM

Jordan played under Pippen-Ball.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

Anyone who lived through that time knows that not only was it Jordan's team - it was MJ's LEAGUE.

[8Ball]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/mvp-favorite-scottie-pippen.png

The only MVP favorite on all of LeBron's teams has been LeBron.

3ball's argument's about Pippen from now on:

https://www.allentfuneralservice.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/large_22428.jpg

[3ball]

3ball's argument's about Pippen from now on:

https://www.allentfuneralservice.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/large_22428.jpg


You're argument is the National Enquirer - false stories

Otoh, the stats and historical record show that Lebron and everyone in history needed equal scoring teammates for half of their rings (1b's)

Only Jordan won every ring with a true 2nd option that averaged far less

[Hey Yo]

I'm pitching a shut out because you can't refute the stats

Lebron and everyone in history needed equal scoring teammates for half of their rings....

Only Jordan won every ring with a true 2nd option that averaged far less
That was by design. MJ scores, while Pip scores, distributes and plays lock down defense and Rodman keeps leading the league in rebounding all while playing elite defense.

If MJ was truly a fierce competitor and wanted a challenge, then he would have signed elsewhere after the 96 season when his contract was up. Instead he stayed with his superteam.

[8Ball]

testimony from Jordan himself and observers during that time >>>> 3ball who hasn't watched a Jordan game in 30 years.

[8Ball]

That was by design. MJ scores, while Pip scores, distributes and plays lock down defense and Rodman keeps leading the league in rebounding all while playing elite defense.

If MJ was truly a fierce competitor and wanted a challenge, then he would have signed elsewhere after the 96 season when his contract was up. Instead he stayed with his superteam.

Jordan only knew how to be a ball hog chucker.

It's like designing a gameplan as a team for Kyrie Irving because all Kyrie knows how to do offensively is score.

Doesn't have elite NBA skills like LeBron does for passing.

[3ball]

Jordan only knew how to be a ball hog chucker.

It's like designing a gameplan as a team for Kyrie Irving because all Kyrie knows how to do offensively is score.

Doesn't have elite NBA skills like LeBron does for passing.


Jordan averaged more assists and assist percentage than pippen in the regular season, playoffs and Finals

Infact, Jordan assisted 30% more often in the playoffs - both mj/pippen averaged 5-6 assists, but Jordan had less available shots to assist on because his own personal shot volume was much higher than Pippen's (jordan can't assist on his own shots)

In addition to getting more assists, Jordan got more DPOY votes every year than pippen... Heck, Jordan was #2 in 1993, while pippen got no votes and didn't place

[Axe]

I wonder who has a more solid dedication to their respective heroes. 3ball or Xiao?

[Axe]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

Michael Jordan himself, in the middle of the 1995-96 season, saying that the Chicago Bulls are Scottie Pippen's team and that Scottie Pippen is probably the best player in the entire game.

That makes Michael Jordan the sidekick or 1b in 1995-96.

Looks like you dun goofed again.
Basketball is a team game, you trust fund dunce.

[3ball]

Basketball is a team game, you trust fund dunce.


Everyone in history needed a 1b for half their rings

except MJ, who won with a true 2nd option that averaged far less for every ring

Ultimately, lebron needs 2 stars or a 1b to win - he has zero rings with a true 2nd option and 1 star teammate, while the goat has 6

[SATAN]

https://dsz7vodgjx60a.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/BIL-BJ-ALLSTARs.jpg

https://www.ozy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/72253657.jpg?w=660

[KD7]

Wade & Kyrie were clear number 2s

LeBron produced way more than Kyrie did in terms of playmaking, defense and overall leadership

[3ball]

https://dsz7vodgjx60a.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/BIL-BJ-ALLSTARs.jpg

https://www.ozy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/72253657.jpg?w=660


^^^ a couple "korver" all-stars (1-timers).. that's the crap Jordan won with

People were completely shocked that a core of Paul George and 2 Korvers didn't completely collapse without Jordan.

But Paul George and 2 Korvers could probably win 55 if they had a system to facilitate good teamwork.. Ultimately, the triangle was a 55-win offense if run perfectly... but only MJ or his clone (kobe) could win rings with it

[KD7]

Career Finals

Lebron... 28 ppg
Kyrie...... 28 ppg


2016 Playoffs

Lebron... 26.2
Kyrie...... 25.8






It can be argued that lebron has 2 rings with 2nd options but that's only half his rings and both were with 2 stars (12' and 13') - he has no rings with a true 2nd option as the only star teammate (like Hakeem's rings).

Ultimately, lebron can't win with a true 2nd option unless he has a 2nd star teammate because he can't shoot well at the higher volumes required (more contested jumpshooting).. only guys that make tons of contested jumpers can win with true 2nd options and no 2nd star (Hakeem, Dirk, MJ, Kobe)
Why do you constantly just ignore every aspect of basketball outside of scoring?

[3ball]

Wade & Kyrie were clear number 2s

LeBron produced way more than Kyrie did in terms of playmaking, defense and overall leadership


So Draymond is a 1b to Curry??

the stuff you mentioned is role player stuff (defense, passing, leadership)

Otoh, big scoring is reserved for stars:




Wade & Kyrie were clear number 2s

LeBron produced way more than Kyrie did in terms of playmaking, defense and overall leadership






PLAYOFF PPG


1988 McHale.... 25.4
1988 Bird.......... 24.5

1986 McHale.... 24.9
1986 Bird.......... 25.1

2011 Wade...... 24.5
2011 Lebron.... 23.7

2020 Davis.'..... 27.8
2020 Lebron.... 27.7

2016 Kyrie'...... 25.8
2016 Lebron... 26.2

1987 Worthy.... 23.6
1987 Magic...'.. 21.1


^^^ Lebron, Magic and everyone in history are "pippens" because they needed a "jordan" (someone capable of outscoring them).. Jordan is the only guy that just needed a pippen - someone that averaged 10-30 less in every series.. Jordan infact invented the idea of "carry-jobs" when he first came on the scene - it was his claim to fame and what differentiated him from bird/magic/isiah (who had equal-scoring teammates).

And equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his #1 ranked PER, BPM, WS/48, and also VORP seasons).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s




Wade & Kyrie were clear number 2s

LeBron produced way more than Kyrie did in terms of playmaking, defense and overall leadership





Lebron was a 1-trick pony before the "decision", with only 1 Finals run like Iverson, Dwight, and Kidd - then Wade, AD, and Kyrie elevated him to champion.. So this idea that lebron brings guys titles and therefore "makes guys better" is false - teaming up doesn't equal "making guys better" - it's just stacking the deck and talent-based winning.... virtually none of his primary teammates improved statistically alongside him because his skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team--hopping, talent-based winning)..

Talent-based winning loses to organic ball movement, so lebron has a lottery record vs Mavs, Spurs and Warriors.. ultimately, his kryptonite is his imposition of spot-up roles and resulting inability to grow an organic brand - his skillset can't develop a sophisticated organic brand or ball movement, so he's susceptible to losing to it in the absence of excessive talent advantage (talent-based winning 4/10.. AAU in the NBA, best recruiter wins)

[8Ball]

Why do you constantly just ignore every aspect of basketball outside of scoring?

Because Jordan wasn't elite at all other aspects of basketball, like passing. Unlike LeBron.

Occam's Razor.

[SATAN]

Because Jordan wasn't elite at all other aspects of basketball, like passing. Unlike LeBron.

Occam's Razor.

Might be trying to hide the fact MJ was an overrated defender. :confusedshrug:

This guy dropped 50 on MJ:
https://cdnb.20m.es/quefuede/files/galis2.jpg

Nikos Galis


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCHzpX-c3gQ

[Axe]

Because Jordan wasn't elite at all other aspects of basketball, like passing. Unlike LeBron.

Occam's Razor.
Interesting observation, 8ball.

[3ball]

Because Jordan wasn't elite at all other aspects of basketball, like passing. Unlike LeBron.

Occam's Razor.


Jordan was top 5 DPOY from 88-98'

So Jordan was elite at scoring, defense and passing

Lebron is only elite at passing - he's barely borderline top 10 scoring for many years now

Btw, Jordan was called the best point guard in Year 5, while lebron wasn't called that until year 17

[Round Mound]

PIPPEN´s broken down stats. You say he was NOT A TOP 10 PLAYER IN THE 90's? Check This Out

Player Efficiency Rating

1990-91 NBA 20.6 (20th)
1991-92 NBA 21.5 (13th)
1993-94 NBA 23.2 (4th)*Without Jordan
1994-95 NBA 22.6 (7th)
1995-96 NBA 21.0 (15th)
1996-97 NBA 21.3 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 20.4 (19th)

Box Plus/Minus

1990-91 NBA 5.8 (10th)
1991-92 NBA 6.1 (6th)
1992-93 NBA 4.0 (14th)
1993-94 NBA 7.7 (3rd)*Without Jordan
1994-95 NBA 7.5 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 6.3 (8th)
1996-97 NBA 5.7 (9th)

Offensive Box Plus/Minus

1990-91 NBA 3.2 (16th)
1991-92 NBA 4.1 (11th)
1993-94 NBA 4.5 (5th)*Without Jordan
1994-95 NBA 4.4 (8th)
1995-96 NBA 4.6 (9th)
1996-97 NBA 4.3 (14th)
1997-98 NBA 3.3 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 5.0 (8th)
1999-00 NBA 3.6 (20th)

Defensive Box Plus/Minus

1987-88 NBA 1.3 (19th)
1990-91 NBA 2.5 (7th)
1991-92 NBA 2.0 (12th)
1993-94 NBA 3.2 (5th) *Without Jordan
1994-95 NBA 3.0 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 1.7 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 1.6 (19th)
2001-02 NBA 1.6 (14th)
2002-03 NBA 1.6 (19th

Value Over Replacement Player

1990-91 NBA 5.9 (10th)
1991-92 NBA 6.4 (5th)
1992-93 NBA 4.7 (9th)
1993-94 NBA 6.8 (5th)*Without Jordan
1994-95 NBA 7.2 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 5.9 (7th)
1996-97 NBA 6.1 (8th)
1999-00 NBA 3.9 (19th)

*Without Jordan....Where He Ranked

:confusedshrug:

[3ball]

PIPPEN´s broken down stats. You say he was NOT A TOP 10 PLAYER IN THE 90's? Check This Out

Player Efficiency Rating

1990-91 NBA 20.6 (20th)
1991-92 NBA 21.5 (13th)
1993-94 NBA 23.2 (4th)*Without Jordan
1994-95 NBA 22.6 (7th)
1995-96 NBA 21.0 (15th)
1996-97 NBA 21.3 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 20.4 (19th)

Box Plus/Minus

1990-91 NBA 5.8 (10th)
1991-92 NBA 6.1 (6th)
1992-93 NBA 4.0 (14th)
1993-94 NBA 7.7 (3rd)*Without Jordan
1994-95 NBA 7.5 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 6.3 (8th)
1996-97 NBA 5.7 (9th)

Offensive Box Plus/Minus

1990-91 NBA 3.2 (16th)
1991-92 NBA 4.1 (11th)
1993-94 NBA 4.5 (5th)*Without Jordan
1994-95 NBA 4.4 (8th)
1995-96 NBA 4.6 (9th)
1996-97 NBA 4.3 (14th)
1997-98 NBA 3.3 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 5.0 (8th)
1999-00 NBA 3.6 (20th)

Defensive Box Plus/Minus

1987-88 NBA 1.3 (19th)
1990-91 NBA 2.5 (7th)
1991-92 NBA 2.0 (12th)
1993-94 NBA 3.2 (5th) *Without Jordan
1994-95 NBA 3.0 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 1.7 (17th)
1997-98 NBA 1.6 (19th)
2001-02 NBA 1.6 (14th)
2002-03 NBA 1.6 (19th

Value Over Replacement Player

1990-91 NBA 5.9 (10th)
1991-92 NBA 6.4 (5th)
1992-93 NBA 4.7 (9th)
1993-94 NBA 6.8 (5th)*Without Jordan
1994-95 NBA 7.2 (3rd)
1995-96 NBA 5.9 (7th)
1996-97 NBA 6.1 (8th)
1999-00 NBA 3.9 (19th)

*Without Jordan....Where He Ranked

:confusedshrug:


Pippen ranks between 3 and 8 in the stats you selected, while AD, Wade and Love rank 1-4 in their peak years without Lebron

So your logic says a top 10 player from the 90's < Kevin Love.... :kobe:

Pippen's peak rankings are the same as Kyrie in 2018, and below Love's peak.. So Pippen's peak isn't anywhere near a top 10 peak of the 90's..

it's about a top 25 peak because approximately 25 different guys peaked between 3 and 8 during the 90's in the primary impact stats.. :confusedshrug:.. a top 10 peak would be someone that peaks between 1-4 (like AD, Wade, and Love).

And your stats exclude WS/48 (winning contribution) because Pippen had weak WS/48 - Grant, Kukoc and BJ often had higher WS/48, especially in the playoffs.. Pippen was horrible in the playoffs (top 50 peak in the 90's)

Finally, Pippen's peak rankings without jordan are nearly the same as WITH jordan (so he played to capacity alongside Jordan), while Lebron's teammates have low rankings alongside him and nowhere near their 1-4 peak rankings (so he cratered them).
..

[Axe]

Pippen ranks between 3 and 8 in the stats you selected, while AD, Wade and Love rank 1-4 in their peak years without Lebron

So your logic says a top 10 player from the 90's < Kevin Love.... :kobe:

Pippen's peak rankings are the same as Kyrie in 2018, and below Love's peak.. So Pippen's peak isn't anywhere near a top 10 peak of the 90's..

it's about a top 25 peak because approximately 25 different guys peaked between 3 and 8 during the 90's in the primary impact stats.. :confusedshrug:.. a top 10 peak would be someone that peaks between 1-4 (like AD, Wade, and Love).

And your stats exclude WS/48 (winning contribution) because Pippen had weak WS/48 - Grant, Kukoc and BJ often had higher WS/48, especially in the playoffs.. Pippen was horrible in the playoffs (top 50 peak in the 90's)

Finally, Pippen's peak rankings without jordan are nearly the same as WITH jordan (so he played to capacity alongside Jordan), while Lebron's teammates have low rankings alongside him and nowhere near their 1-4 peak rankings (so he cratered them).
..
You are beyond pathetic with the way you're trying to persuade everyone into believing what you are spanming most of the time.

[3ball]

You are beyond pathetic with the way you're trying to persuade everyone into believing what you are spanming most of the time.


I'm sorry that I must point out the flaws in your arguments and you can't point out any in mine

The reason for that is because I'm merely pointing out the appropriate way to interpret basic stats, which you guys misread, mis-present (presenting a peak as a career rank), or misunderstand

[Axe]

I'm sorry that I must point out the flaws in your arguments and you can't point out any in mine

The reason for that is because I'm merely pointing out the appropriate way to interpret basic stats, which you guys misread, mis-present (presenting a peak as a career rank), or misunderstand
Lol there's nothing that can be seen in what you're 'pointing out' 24/7 in this board but your absurdly insane obsession towards the players you loathe the most. :confusedshrug:

[KD7]

Because Jordan wasn't elite at all other aspects of basketball, like passing. Unlike LeBron.

Occam's Razor.

Pippen literally lead Jordan in 4/5 statistical categories

Kyrie and Wade lead LeBron in absolutely nothing

So how df are Wade and Kyrie 1bs but Pippen isn't when Pippen produced more than Wade and Kyrie for their championships

3ball backing himself into a corner, his only argument is PPG

If scoring was the only thing that mattered then he'd be right but it isn't

[KD7]

I'm sorry that I must point out the flaws in your arguments and you can't point out any in mine

The reason for that is because I'm merely pointing out the appropriate way to interpret basic stats, which you guys misread, mis-present (presenting a peak as a career rank), or misunderstand
All your arguments are flawed because you only look at raw points per game and ignore every other aspect of what makes a great second option

[TheGoatest]

Just about everyone in the consensus top 10 won without one particular sidekick:

LeBron won without Wade and Bosh in 2016 and 2020, without Kyrie and Love in 2012, 2013 and 2020, and without AD in 2012, 2013 and 2016.
Kareem won without Magic in 1971.
Magic led the Lakers to a title while Kareem was injured in 1980.
Duncan won without Robinson in 2005, 2007 and 2014, without Parker/Ginobili in 1999, and without Kawhi in 1999, 2003, 2005 and 2007.
Shaq won without Kobe in 2006.
Kobe won without Shaq in 2009 and 2010.
Wilt won without West in 1967 and without Greer in 1972.
Russell won at least one title without one particular player.

Meanwhile: No Pip, no chip.

[rmt]

Just about everyone in the consensus top 10 won without one particular sidekick:

LeBron won without Wade and Bosh in 2016 and 2020, without Kyrie and Love in 2012, 2013 and 2020, and without AD in 2012, 2013 and 2016.
Kareem won without Magic in 1971.
Magic led the Lakers to a title while Kareem was injured in 1980.
Duncan won without Robinson in 2005, 2007 and 2014, without Parker/Ginobili in 1999, and without Kawhi in 1999, 2003, 2005 and 2007.
Shaq won without Kobe in 2006.
Kobe won without Shaq in 2009 and 2010.
Wilt won without West in 1967 and without Greer in 1972.
Russell won at least one title without one particular player.

Meanwhile: No Pip, no chip.

This is some weird, backward logic.

[AirBonner]

This is some weird, backward logic.

It’s not even to discredit MJ. That fact shakes 3ball to his core

[8Ball]

Pippen literally lead Jordan in 4/5 statistical categories

Kyrie and Wade lead LeBron in absolutely nothing

So how df are Wade and Kyrie 1bs but Pippen isn't when Pippen produced more than Wade and Kyrie for their championships

3ball backing himself into a corner, his only argument is PPG

If scoring was the only thing that mattered then he'd be right but it isn't

When LeBron dominates a portion of a game with passing its something Jordan was never able to do.

So 3ball ignores it, like a fish ignores the world above the water. It hasn't reached a higher level of understanding because it can't. That's where 3ball is stuck.


And Bron already surpassed Jordan in scoring and will most likely hit #1 all time scoring. Imagine claiming "scoring" over LeBron and LeBron is #1 all time scoring. Doesn't work.

[3ball]

When LeBron dominates a portion of a game with passing its something Jordan was never able to do.

So 3ball ignores it, like a fish ignores the world above the water. It hasn't reached a higher level of understanding because it can't. That's where 3ball is stuck.


And Bron already surpassed Jordan in scoring and will most likely hit #1 all time scoring. Imagine claiming "scoring" over LeBron and LeBron is #1 all time scoring. Doesn't work.


Jordan dominated passing more than Lebron ever has in the 91' Finals

Furthermore, the first time Jordan played point guard, he was called the best PG in the league after 10 games - this was in Year 5, whereas Lebron wasn't called the best PG until Year 17 despite being the biggest ball-dominator literally ever.

So Jordan dominated passing if needed - MORE than lebron, as described above.. However, getting high assists doesn't win as much as scoring, clutch, and defense, so Jordan always returned to a 2-way focus and settled around 6 apg..

The 6 apg level is optimal because players at this level have the most team assists and team ceiling, aka Finals record (Curry, Bird, MJ, Durant, Kawhi, Kobe).. otoh, ball-dominators and high apg players have lower Finals records/team ceiling - aka Lebron/Magic are 9-10 in the Finals.

Finally, Jordan averaged more apg and assist percentage than Pippen in the regular season, playoffs, and Finals.

Carry on

[dankok8]

Lebron and Davis were 1a and 1b in 2020 but Lebron and Kyrie weren't 1a and 1b in 2016. Lebron was clearly better than Kyrie.

[3ball]

:facepalm:

[Axe]

This is some weird, backward logic.
Some people really tend to forget or play dumb in knowing that basketball is a team sport. :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan dominated passing more than Lebron ever has in the 91' Finals

Furthermore, the first time Jordan played point guard, he was called the best PG in the league after 10 games - this was in Year 5, whereas Lebron wasn't called the best PG until Year 17 despite being the biggest ball-dominator literally ever.
Oh, so articles praising Jordan have merit but not Pippen. That's convenient :lol


However, getting high assists doesn't win as much as scoring
I find it so ironic you have this belief when Jordan was eliminated 3 years in a row by a team that barely had a 20 ppg scorer


The 6 apg level is optimal because players at this level have the most team assists and team ceiling, aka Finals record (Curry, Bird, MJ, Durant, Kawhi, Kobe).. otoh, ball-dominators and high apg players have lower Finals records/team ceiling - aka Lebron/Magic are 9-10 in the Finals.
Durant, Kawhi, Curry & Bird all have less titles, finals appearances AND FMVP's than LeBron & Magic :lol Kobe has less FMVP too. You're literally arguing that less titles and finals appearances is better

[3ball]

Lebron and Davis were 1a and 1b in 2020 but Lebron and Kyrie weren't 1a and 1b in 2016. Lebron was clearly better than Kyrie.


they were equal scoring partners and Kyrie led in clutch, while taking on a tougher matchup (league MVP)..

Unlike Lebron's matchups, Curry didn't get FMVP..

having an equal scoring partner matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his #1 ranked PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s

[Uncle Drew]

:facepalm:

Probably your best ever post. Keep it up man, we know you have it it in ya.

[3ball]

Oh, so articles praising Jordan have merit but not Pippen. That's convenient :lol


I find it so ironic you have this belief when Jordan was eliminated 3 years in a row by a team that barely had a 20 ppg scorer


Durant, Kawhi, Curry & Bird all have less titles, finals appearances AND FMVP's than LeBron & Magic :lol Kobe has less FMVP too. You're literally arguing that less titles and finals appearances is better


The articles about Jordan cite his 30/9/11 stats and triple-double streak (proof of abnormal greatness)

Whereas the articles on pippen are just political quotes from teammates (no stats) and ultimately just charity one-off articles because no one ever wrote about him

And Magic/Lebron made more Finals because they stacked the deck - Magic stacked it when he refused to play with anyone but Kareem (bitch move, aka "lebron" move)

But their stacked decks resulted in weak Finals records because they played suboptimally, thus causing lower team ceilings

[SouBeachTalents]

The articles about Jordan cite his 30/9/11 stats and triple-double streak (proof of abnormal greatness)

Whereas the articles on pippen are just political quotes from teammates (no stats) and ultimately just charity one-off articles because no one ever wrote about him

And Magic/Lebron made more Finals because they stacked the deck - Magic stacked it when he refused to play with anyone but Kareem (bitch move, aka "lebron" move)

But their stacked decks resulted in weak Finals records because they played suboptimally, thus causing lower team ceilings
You're gonna complain about stacking the deck then brag about Durant & Curry's Finals record :lol You have no consistency in your argument, you'll literally argue both sides of an issue to push a specific agenda

[3ball]

You're gonna complain about stacking the deck then brag about Durant & Curry's Finals record :lol You have no consistency in your argument, you'll literally argue both sides of an issue to push a specific agenda


Durant had Curry, but Lebron had the guy that destroyed Curry and plays better on the championship level (Kyrie)

So you're just forgetting that lebron stacked the deck too, and more than anyone ever, at least before KD's latest 1-up of lebron

[3ball]

.
THREAD CLIFFS


Having an equal scoring partner matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving max integrity to his #1 ranked PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s

[SouBeachTalents]

Durant had Curry, but Lebron had the guy that destroyed Curry and plays better on the championship level (Kyrie)

So you're just forgetting that lebron stacked the deck too, and more than anyone ever, at least before KD's latest 1-up of lebron
I'm just saying, for all your talk about Finals record/team ceiling, Durant & Curry are 0-1 & 1-2 in the Finals without the other

[Axe]

Durant had Curry, but Lebron had the guy that destroyed Curry and plays better on the championship level (Kyrie)

So you're just forgetting that lebron stacked the deck too, and more than anyone ever, at least before KD's latest 1-up of lebron
You should probably be put on a timeout again.

[8Ball]

When LeBron dominates a portion of a game with passing its something Jordan was never able to do.

So 3ball ignores it, like a fish ignores the world above the water. It hasn't reached a higher level of understanding because it can't. That's where 3ball is stuck.


And Bron already surpassed Jordan in scoring and will most likely hit #1 all time scoring. Imagine claiming "scoring" over LeBron and LeBron is #1 all time scoring. Doesn't work.

Quoted for truth.

Carry on.

[AirBonner]

MJ’s 2nd option got mvp votes and outperformed the majority of 2nd options and even some 1st options

[3ball]

MJ’s 2nd option outperformed the majority of 2nd options and even some 1st options





^^^^ False

Pippen was outscored by the opposing 2nd option in over 50% of series in his career (the majority), including 40% as a Bull, and 33% during the championship years.

That's super-shitty for any team that won a bunch of rings - anyone that won 3 rings needed the sidekick to average 25-30 or win FMVP for at least one of the Finals, whereas pippen is 0-6 in FMVP and never averaged over 21 in the Finals (19.0 on 42% career).. so that proves only Jordan could win 3 rings with pippen.






MJ’s 2nd option outperformed the majority of 2nd options and even some 1st options





It's no surprise that Pippen's only time outscoring a #1 option in the Finals was against a balanced team/shared load with 4 guys averaging 17-19 points (91' Lakers).

Otherwise, Pippen was frequently outscored by 2nd options in earlier rounds because lesser opponents didn't have 3rd and 4th options to reduce 2nd option's stats.

So the Finals opponents were simply deeper with 3rd and 4th scorers that took away from their 2nd option - the 93' Suns and 96' Sonics had 3 offensive all-stars, while the 91' Lakers had 4 players average 17+ in the Finals.. Meanwhile, the 92' Blazers were the deepest of all the Finals opponents.






MJ’s 2nd option outperformed the majority of 2nd options and even some 1st options





Pippen was outplayed by the following #2 options:



- 89' 1st Rd (Harper)
- 90' ECF (Dumars)
- 92' ECSF (X-Man)
- 93' 1st Round (Willis)
- 94' ECSF (Ewing)
- 95' 1st Round (L Johnson)
- 96' ECSF (Oakley)
- 96' ECF (Penny)
- 96' Finals (Payton)
- 97' 1st Round (J Howard)
- 97' Finals (Stockton)
- 98' ECF (Smits)
- 99' 1st Round (Kobe)



And no all-time great has this many horrific series:



1988 RD 1 vs. CLE......10.6 on 47.1%
1988 ECSF vs. DET...... 9.4 on 45.8%

1989 RD 1 vs. CLE......15.0 on 39.8%
1989 ECF vs. DET........ 9.7 on 40.2%


1990 ECF vs DET........16.6 on 42.8%

1992 ECSF vs NYN.....16.0 on 40.2%

1993 RD 1 vs. ATL..... 15.0 on 42.2%

1995 ECSF vs ORL.....19.0 on 40.9%

1996 ECSF vs NYN.... 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA... 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS.....16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF vs. MIA..... 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECF vs IND....... 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA... 15.7 on 41.0%

1999 RD 1 vs LAL...... 18.3 on 32.9%


^^^ Anyone else gets destroyed for that shit

Ultimately, pippen was a 2nd option, so he doesn't belong in the top 50... infact, he's the only guy whose perceived rank is far higher than his production rate rank of about 120th (PER, WS/48, OBPM, peak VORP).

[3ball]

.
Reference Purposes:


1) anyone that won 3 Finals needed the sidekick to average 25-30 or win FMVP for at least one of the Finals, whereas pippen is 0-6 in FMVP and never averaged over 21 in the Finals (19.0 on 42% career).. so that proves only Jordan could win 3 rings with pippen.

2) equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving max integrity to his #1 ranked PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s


Lol I just realized that Kenny Smith is being nice there saying "players that didn't get doubled" instead of "players that sucked" lol.. a euphemism used for tv purposes

[AirBonner]

^ ain’t no one using you as a reference bub lol

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

^^^^ False

Pippen was outscored by the opposing 2nd option in over 50% of series in his career (the majority), including 40% as a Bull, and 33% during the championship years.

That's super-shitty for any team that won a bunch of rings - anyone that won 3 rings needed the sidekick to average 25-30 or win FMVP for at least one of the Finals, whereas pippen is 0-6 in FMVP and never averaged over 21 in the Finals (19.0 on 42% career).. so that proves only Jordan could win 3 rings with pippen.






It's no surprise that Pippen's only time outscoring a #1 option in the Finals was against a balanced team/shared load with 4 guys averaging 17-19 points (91' Lakers).

Otherwise, Pippen was frequently outscored by 2nd options in earlier rounds because lesser opponents didn't have 3rd and 4th options to reduce 2nd option's stats.

So the Finals opponents were simply deeper with 3rd and 4th scorers that took away from their 2nd option - the 93' Suns and 96' Sonics had 3 offensive all-stars, while the 91' Lakers had 4 players average 17+ in the Finals.. Meanwhile, the 92' Blazers were the deepest of all the Finals opponents.






Pippen was outplayed by the following #2 options:



- 89' 1st Rd (Harper)
- 90' ECF (Dumars)
- 92' ECSF (X-Man)
- 93' 1st Round (Willis)
- 94' ECSF (Ewing)
- 95' 1st Round (L Johnson)
- 96' ECSF (Oakley)
- 96' ECF (Penny)
- 96' Finals (Payton)
- 97' 1st Round (J Howard)
- 97' Finals (Stockton)
- 98' ECF (Smits)
- 99' 1st Round (Kobe)



And no all-time great has this many horrific series:



1988 RD 1 vs. CLE......10.6 on 47.1%
1988 ECSF vs. DET...... 9.4 on 45.8%

1989 RD 1 vs. CLE......15.0 on 39.8%
1989 ECF vs. DET........ 9.7 on 40.2%


1990 ECF vs DET........16.6 on 42.8%

1992 ECSF vs NYN.....16.0 on 40.2%

1993 RD 1 vs. ATL..... 15.0 on 42.2%

1995 ECSF vs ORL.....19.0 on 40.9%

1996 ECSF vs NYN.... 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA... 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS.....16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF vs. MIA..... 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECF vs IND....... 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA... 15.7 on 41.0%

1999 RD 1 vs LAL...... 18.3 on 32.9%


^^^ Anyone else gets destroyed for that shit

Ultimately, pippen was a 2nd option, so he doesn't belong in the top 50... infact, he's the only guy whose perceived rank is far higher than his production rate rank of about 120th (PER, WS/48, OBPM, peak VORP).

In 94 series Ewing destroyed lil Pip. They weren't close to the same level. It's jokes when zoomers pretend Pippu was anywhere close to prime Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Reggie, Payton, Zo, Stockton etc. He's more Shawn Kemp level and peak Kemp was much better in the playoffs. Prime Mark Price was better too

In the 94 series against NY BJ Armstrong and Horace Grant both outplayed him and they would've gone down 0-3 if Pippu wasn't benched for Kukoc game winner

[Smoke117]

Does 3ball not realize there are two sides to the game? Scottie was always, at the very least, a top 3 defensive player in everyone of the Bulls play off matchups and championships. You go on about scoring but those fools didn’t carry the defense like he regularly did on the bulls in their championship runs.

[3ball]

Does 3ball not realize there are two sides to the game? Scottie was always, at the very least, a top 3 defensive player in everyone of the Bulls play off matchups and championships. You go on about scoring but those fools didn’t carry the defense like he regularly did on the bulls in their championship runs.


No one "carries" the defense when your teammate is top 5 DPOY and gets more DPOY votes every year

And we aren't talking dikembe mutombo here - no perimeter player carries the defense - mj/pippen had the #7 defense during the 1st three-peat and 4 of 6 opponents had higher-ranked defenses in the Finals and ECF.

So you're "defense" narrative is false and also doesn't affect the point being made - stats are achieved easier with equal-scoring teammate to attract equal defensive attention (1b's).. mj is the only guy that never had an equal-scoring teammate, so he faced the toughest defensive coverage, thereby making his ring and stat quality goat

Btw.... 1b = equal-scoring teammate.. everyone had them except Jordan