Offense affects defense and vice versa - that's what people forget with the Nets

[3ball]

human energy is FINITE (limited)

So increased effort on one end reduces energy on the other end.

Essentially, the Nets need to implement an offense that will translate to better defense.. There's many solid defensive teams that don't actually have good defenders - they simply play a system that yields solid defense and offense.

Ultimately, defenses rest when one guy is dominating the ball... A rested defense has the capacity to go off offensively, whereas a tired and confused defense will NOT get hot on offense.. period

So ultimately, the Nets' ball-dominant approach doesn't shift defenses or wear down teams more than the ball movement they face, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off offensively.. Guys like Sexton get hot and go off because they're too fresh and aren't having to work on the other end.

Accordingly, the Nets need to implement an offensive system that wears defenses down and therefore takes away the opponent's offensive capacity... good defense isn't needed if the opponent's offense isn't playing that well.

Unfortunately, Nash is probably the worst coach ever - he's letting ball-dominance persist, so everyone is just standing and crashing the glass when a shot goes up (not getting back).. it's the worst system ever

I remember in high school and college how the coaches implemented a SYSTEM to bring the ball up court, move the ball around and find an open shot... And then there was a system to get back on defense... Certain plays prohibited the guards from crashing the glass and they were supposed to get back on defense.. Nash is worse than my high school and college coaches.. his organization of the team and strategy is the worst all-time

[AirBonner]

LeBron beat the GOAT offense in 2016 while having ok offense and defense. LeBron is the key to breaking a goat team down. MJ wasn’t capable of that (see series vs Bird Celtics)

[3ball]

LeBron beat the GOAT offense in 2016 while having ok offense and defense. LeBron is the key to breaking a goat team down. MJ wasn’t capable of that (see series vs Bird Celtics)


Kyrie erased Curry in the 2016 Finals - the only reason it took 7 games is because lebron wet the bed thru 4

But this thread isn't about Lebron - it's about how Nash is letting ball-dominance persist, which puts his team at a massive disadvantage defensively (not wearing the other team down)

Nets players stand around and then crash the glass when a shot goes up (poor at getting back).... This is the easiest format ever that allows defenses to rest and then spring back on the offensive end.. worst system ever

I remember in high school and college how the coaches implemented a SYSTEM to bring the ball up court, move the ball around and find an open shot... And then there was a system to get back on defense... Certain plays prohibited the guards from crashing the glass and they were supposed to get back on defense.. Nash is worse than my high school and college coaches.. his organization of the team and strategy is the worst all-time

[Hey Yo]

human energy is FINITE (limited)

So increased effort on one end reduces energy on the other end.

Essentially, the Nets need to implement an offense that will translate to better defense.. There's many solid defensive teams that don't actually have good defenders - they simply play a system that yields solid defense and offense.

Ultimately, defenses rest when one guy is dominating the ball... A rested defense has the capacity to go off offensively, whereas a tired and confused defense will NOT get hot on offense.. period

So ultimately, the Nets' ball-dominant approach doesn't shift defenses or wear down teams more than the ball movement they face, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off offensively.. Guys like Sexton get hot and go off because they're too fresh and aren't having to work on the other end.

Accordingly, the Nets need to implement an offensive system that wears defenses down and therefore takes away the opponent's offensive capacity... good defense isn't needed if the opponent's offense isn't playing that well.

Unfortunately, Nash is probably the worst coach ever - he's letting ball-dominance persist, so everyone is just standing and crashing the glass when a shot goes up (not getting back).. it's the worst system ever
That's why Pippen ended up guarding Magic in the 91 Finals. MJ said it was too taxing on him in trying to do so.

[3ball]

That's why Pippen ended up guarding Magic in the 91 Finals. MJ said it was too taxing on him in trying to do so.


Jordan guarded Magic for 70% of possessions in the 91' Finals..

Pippen only guarded Magic for part of Games 2 and 3

It's funny because Magic is normally guarded by forwards... But Pippen had collapsed in the 89' ECF (missed the last 2 games) and the 90' ECF (migraine)...

So the bulls thought the Magic matchup was too much for pippen to start his first Finals - they literally didn't want him to get another migraine, so Jordan guarded Magic to start and most of the series

Interestingly, pippen had his best offensive game in Game 5 when he didn't have to guard Magic or Worthy (who was out with injury)

[imdaman99]

I can agree with this. Teams that guard up on them, they are going 1 on 1 and that only wears out 1 defender at a time. If you move the ball around and force everyone on defense to guard up, they will have less energy for offense. My friend always tells me the best defense is a great offense when I yell at him for not playing any defense :lol it's different at a park level because you rarely get team basketball there lol. But I know what he's saying.

[3ball]

I can agree with this. Teams that guard up on them, they are going 1 on 1 and that only wears out 1 defender at a time. If you move the ball around and force everyone on defense to guard up, they will have less energy for offense. My friend always tells me the best defense is a great offense when I yell at him for not playing any defense :lol it's different at a park level because you rarely get team basketball there lol. But I know what he's saying.


Exactly

It's so easy to stand around while 1 guy is dominating the rock, and then spring to life with energy when it's time for offense.

Otoh, if a team is wearing down a defense with ball movement, it's not so easy to come down on offense and start popping off - the pace is different and you've been worn down - everything is different

[HBK_Kliq_2]

What about Steve Nash led teams? His teams seem to usually have elite ball movement and were still embarrassing on defense.

[aj1987]

In 2004, the Spurs were the #1 defense. Some people consider the Pistons from the same season to be one of the GOAT defenses. They were the #16 and #18 offense respectively. The '64 Celtics (one of the GOAT defenses) were 9th in the league offensively. The 2008 Celtics were 10th offensively. The '90's Knicks had terrible offenses. The '90 Pistons were 10th.

[8Ball]

Nets need LeBron / Pippen ball.


Dominant ball scorers have no idea how to win basketball games without elite basketball IQ being a sherpa for them.

[3ball]

What about Steve Nash led teams? His teams seem to usually have elite ball movement and were still embarrassing on defense.


So why is the Nets' offense a playground brand that gives maximum energy to opponents?

[aj1987]

So why is the Nets' offense a playground brand that gives maximum energy to opponents?

It's not because of their offense, you literal ******. They have terrible defenders on the team. :facepalm

[3ball]

In 2004, the Spurs were the #1 defense. Some people consider the Pistons from the same season to be one of the GOAT defenses. They were the #16 and #18 offense respectively. The '64 Celtics (one of the GOAT defenses) were 9th in the league offensively. The 2008 Celtics were 10th offensively. The '90's Knicks had terrible offenses. The '90 Pistons were 10th.


Exactly

And those teams weren't letting defenses stand around and rest while 1 guy dominates the rock, and then spring to life with energy when it's time for offense.

Those teams wore down defenses with ball movement, so it wasn't so easy to come down on offense and start popping off - the pace is different and they'd been worn down - everything was different

[3ball]

It's not because of their offense, you literal ******. They have terrible defenders on the team. :facepalm


The best defense is a good offense

The Nets offense is infact dogshit

It wears NOBODY down, thus leaving opponents maximum energy/capacity for offense

There's many solid defensive teams that don't actually have good defenders - they simply play a system that yields solid defense and offense.

[aj1987]

The best defense is a good offense

The Nets offense is infact dogshit

It wears NOBODY down, thus leaving opponents maximum energy/capacity for offense

You're a retard. I'm just wasting my time.

BTW, the Nets are the #3 offense and have a GOAT level offense since trading for Harden.

[3ball]

You're a retard. I'm just wasting my time.

BTW, the Nets are the #3 offense and have a GOAT level offense since trading for Harden.


It's a dogshit offense that opponents exceed because opponents are fresher from playing a superior brand of basketball (ball movement)

the Nets end up more worn down then their opponents because their playground brand is amateur hour ball-dominance that doesn't wear down opponents

Nash is literally the biggest joke ever because it's the coach's fault.. he needs to commit to a change

[8Ball]

Today is another meltdown.

What will tomorrow bring?

Another meltdown.

[3ball]

Today is another meltdown.

What will tomorrow bring?

Another meltdown.


What are you talking about

this is the solution for the Nets and I don't care if you and everyone else lacks sufficient understanding to get it

The "your-turn-my-turn" amateur playground shit brand will always allow less talented teams to compete well

[8Ball]

STFU

You had an orgasm when this trade happened.

Now you are being exposed yet again about how little you know about basketball.

I can take a random off the street that saw 20 basketball games and they have higher IQ than you.

[8Ball]

What are you talking about

this is the solution for the Nets and I don't care if you and everyone else lacks sufficient understanding to get it

The "your-turn-my-turn" amateur playground shit brand will always allow less talented teams to compete well


3ball 2 weeks ago:


Durant and other role players are good defenders.. and Harden is a leader in steals and deflections, so he's probably good when motivated

Also, their unprecedented offensive attack will wear teams down, leaving opponents less energy for offense.. they will win the attrition battle every night they decide to


Total dog shit basketball understanding.

They wore the Wizards down so much by scoring 146 points that the Wizards put up 149 points on them.

[StrongLurk]

OP, get some therapy.

[tpols]

This is the recipe the warriors and spurs used to beat the heat and cavs by record margin. You notice at the beginning of the series and beginning of games, things were close, but then they would eventually get hit with a landslide. Because their ball movement based offenses wore the opposing defense out. Miami didn't have a bad defense... they had bad offense. Your turn my turn between wade and bron. Ditto kyrie and bron, but that worked a bit better since kyrie is an elite shooter and thus a better fit.

[3ball]

3ball 2 weeks ago:




Total dog shit basketball understanding.

They wore the Wizards down so much by scoring 146 points that the Wizards put up 149 points on them.


I was wrong about the Nets' defense but I'm blaming Nash for their bad defense

It means nothing to score 150 points if the scoring left the opponent fresh as a daisy so they can score 150 too

Everyone knows that the Nets are unstoppable going 1-on-1 with one of their stars - but this doesn't wear out the opponent... what's better - simply scoring... or scoring while wearing the opponent out?

The Nets don't wear teams down, and their own 150 was harder to score because they were being worn out from defending ball movement

Carry on.. keep thinking the game of basketball is so simple

[PeroAntic]

The mental gymnastics op is performing to diffuse his own cognitive dissonance:roll: apparently now its the coaches fault that Harden is not the amazing off the ball player he claimed him to be a couple weeks back. This team is literally the same as Lebron's superteams in both genesis and style, but leave it to a top notch hypocrite like op to have diametrically opposite standards about them.

[AirBonner]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/it-was-scotties-team-in-1996.png

[3ball]

The mental gymnastics op is performing to diffuse his own cognitive dissonance:roll: apparently now its the coaches fault that Harden is not the amazing off the ball player he claimed him to be a couple weeks back. This team is literally the same as Lebron's superteams in both genesis and style, but leave it to a top notch hypocrite like op to have diametrically opposite standards about them.


Unlike lebron, Harden can shoot and therefore has the capacity to play off-ball

The coaches just need to make him

It's the right move because what's better..... simply scoring?... or scoring while wearing the opponent out (thus reducing the opponent's offensive capacity)?

By moving the ball, the Nets can attack the defense with all 3 stars at once - that's better than each guy taking turns.

[PeroAntic]

Harden can shoot and therefore has the capacity to play off-ball


:facepalm

the same as saying 'op can watch basketball and therefore has the capacity to understand it'

[AirBonner]

I watched Harden in high school.. scouted him at Artesia
He can play off-ball

Anyone can tbh.. run off screens and shoot using basic footwork.. or slash .. or quick iso

they just have to be willing to do something uncomfortable

How do you think Jordan felt when he had to play in the triangle?

:biggums::biggums:

[rawimpact]

"Offense affects [sic] defense..." huh?

Do you know the difference between affect and effect?

So your grammar is horrible.

In the other thread you spoke about mean/average being a better statistic when looking at US income levels in comparison to a median. (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489991-The-demographic-that-earns-the-most-in-the-US-is&p=14239273&viewfull=1#post14239273)

Clearly your mathematics is no better.

3Ball, go spend some time learning something for a change, obviously convincing yourself let alone others with numbers or linguistics is beyond you.

[3ball]

.
example of a quick iso


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-22-2015/LaRhrm.gif




:facepalm

the same as saying 'op can watch basketball and therefore has the capacity to understand it'


I watched Harden in high school.. scouted him at Artesia

He can play off-ball

Anyone can tbh.. aka run off screens and shoot using basic footwork.. or slash .. or quick iso (shown above)

they just have to be willing to do something uncomfortable

How do you think Jordan felt when he had to play in the triangle?

[3ball]

"Offense affects [sic] defense..." huh?

Do you know the difference between affect and effect?

So your grammar is horrible.

In the other thread you spoke about mean/average being a better statistic when looking at US income levels in comparison to a median.

Clearly your mathematics is no better.

3Ball, go spend some time learning something for a change, obviously convincing yourself let alone others with numbers or linguistics is beyond you.


No you guys simply lack the knowledge to respond, so you avoid the points being made and focus on grammar

That's the quintessential sign that you lost an argument.. and possibly that you have trouble getting laid

[rawimpact]

No you guys simply lack the knowledge to respond, so you avoid the points being made and focus on grammar

That's the quintessential sign that you lost an argument.. and possibly that you have trouble getting laid

You literally said average/mean is a better statistic than median when comparing income levels. (Look, read your stupid post: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489991-The-demographic-that-earns-the-most-in-the-US-is&p=14239273&viewfull=1#post14239273)

One form stat is susceptible to outliers (ex. a billionaire) whereas the other is not.

Let me explain it to you as if you're on of my nephews since you're so hard headed.

Hundrend people walk into a poll booth, surprisingly they all state they make 45k in salary. The 101th person walks in and he's hit in big and won 950M from the last lottery.

What's a more reflective number for how much the group of 101 people make
Median: 45,000
Mean: 9,450,495

Do you understand or are you still a dumbass?
If you do not understand basic concepts like outliers and deviations, how can anyone take any of the numbers you post seriously?

[rawimpact]

Here I'll give you a basketball related example.

Kobe's first nine games he scores 30 points, and the last game he went off for 81.
What's more reflective of kobe's performance in the season thus far:
Mean: 35.1 ppg
Median: 30 ppg

you can calculate the deviations Mr. Statistics.

Hint: The correct answer is lebron's better.

[3ball]

.
Africans that came here willingly (legal immigrants) earn much more than US-born whites:



2010 Average Income

African Women Immigrants.... $40,699
US Born White Women............ $27,114
African-American Women....... $21,696

African Men Immigrants......... $45,373
US Born White Men................. $49,478
African-American Men............ $24,000

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courthousenews.com/african-immigrants-doing-well-in-united-states/


CONCLUSION: Africans that immigrate willingly earn the most, while Africans that immigrated unwillingly earn the least (slaves and African-American descendants).. aka slavery is the reason for the lower socioeconomic status of African-Americans.

[3ball]

You literally said average/mean is a better statistic than median when comparing income levels.

One form stat is suspectible to outliars (ex. a billionare) whereas the other is not.

Let me explain it to you as if you're on of my nephews since you're so hard headed.

Hundrend people walk into a poll booth, surprisingly they all state they make 45k in salary. The 101th person walks in and he's hit in big and won 950M from the last lottery.

What's a more reflective number for how much the group of 101 people make
Median: 45,000
Mean: 9,450,495

Do you understand or are you still a dumbass?
If you do not understand basic concepts like outliers and deviations, how can anyone take any of the numbers you post seriously?


Oh I get it - you're mad about my post in the politics forum (re-posted above), and now you see that I post the same kind of stuff in the NBA forum - it somehow pisses you off.. lol

You must be mad that Africans make more than US-born whites.. A lot more... only slavery prevented African-Americans from doing the same

[PeroAntic]

.

I watched Harden in high school.. scouted him at Artesia

He can play off-ball

Anyone can tbh.. aka run off screens and shoot using basic footwork.. or slash .. or quick iso (shown above)

they just have to be willing to do something uncomfortable

How do you think Jordan felt when he had to play in the triangle?
Right, it doesn't take IQ, tactical awareness, work ethic, specific athletic abilities (agility, coordination etc.). Anyone can be Steph. You just need to know to shoot.

Honestly dude, your entire shtick as some kind of objective connoisseur has completely fallen apart with these takes on the Nets. youre no better than any one of these dumb Bran stans around here.

[AirBonner]

Right, it doesn't take IQ, tactical awareness, work ethic, specific athletic abilities (agility, coordination etc.). Anyone can be Steph. You just need to know to shoot.

Honestly dude, your entire shtick as some kind of objective connoisseur has completely fallen apart with these takes on the Nets. youre no better than any one of these dumb Bran stans around here.

Prime Rose would take MJ out to the woodshed

[3ball]

Right, it doesn't take IQ, tactical awareness, work ethic, specific athletic abilities (agility, coordination etc.). Anyone can be Steph. You just need to know to shoot.

Honestly dude, your entire shtick as some kind of objective connoisseur has completely fallen apart with these takes on the Nets. youre no better than any one of these dumb Bran stans around here.


Anyone can play off-ball, unless you can't shoot (lebron)

The other skills are just running off screens and the "one-two" footwork upon the catch before the shot (catch-and-shoot footwork)

I learned that shit (the optimal "one-two" catch-and-shoot footwork) in my first D1 practice at Bradley University.. Coach Molinari

[AirBonner]

LeBron (on-ball) 4chips, 4mvp, 4fmvp

[3ball]

LeBron (on-ball) 4chips, 4mvp, 4fmvp

Lebron (no off-ball) - 6 losses, 2/8 against organic ball movement (spurs, mavs, warriors), 4 FMVP given to defensive assignment, 0-8 on clutch shots in Finals





Fixed

[Manny98]

3ball is an S tier troll :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

The best defense is a good offense

The Nets offense is infact dogshit

It wears NOBODY down, thus leaving opponents maximum energy/capacity for offense

There's many solid defensive teams that don't actually have good defenders - they simply play a system that yields solid defense and offense.

So both their offense and defense is dogshit?

Lolol.

I get the argument the offense should wear oppositon down more for defensive purposes, but it still doesnt the offense.

The offense is getting buckets.

[AirBonner]

Fixed

Didn’t refute

[3ball]

.

The offense is getting buckets.





What's better:

A) 150 points

B) 150 points that wears opponent down (thus reducing opponent's offensive capacity)

[AirBonner]

What's better:

A) 150 points

B) 150 points that wears opponent down

C) 150pts/150ast/150reb/150blocks

[3ball]

C) 150pts/150ast/150reb/150blocks


But lebron's teams rank low in assists and get massively out-assisted in the championship

That's the common thread in his last 4 Finals losses - massive deficits in team assists

His ball-dominance hogs the assists for himself, so he gets 10 assists and the team gets 13 lol

[8Ball]

So both their offense and defense is dogshit?

Lolol.

I get the argument the offense should wear oppositon down more for defensive purposes, but it still doesnt the offense.

The offense is getting buckets.

3ball is getting shitted on. Every day.

They dropped 146 points on washington.

3ball said their offence would tire opponents out.... to the tune of 149 points the other way. :lol

[AirBonner]

3ball is getting shitted on. Every day.

They dropped 146 points on washington.

3ball said their offence would tire opponents out.... to the tune of 149 points the other way. :lol

Nets give up all-star game in points to every opponent lol

[3ball]

Nets give up all-star game in points to every opponent lol


The Nets' offense doesn't do this to defenses:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hSGS62d-ETk&t=03m25s


It's a lot harder to make shots in that condition lol

But the Nets let 4 opposing defenders rest every possession by going 1-on-1

[aj1987]

This is the recipe the warriors and spurs used to beat the heat and cavs by record margin. You notice at the beginning of the series and beginning of games, things were close, but then they would eventually get hit with a landslide. Because their ball movement based offenses wore the opposing defense out. Miami didn't have a bad defense... they had bad offense. Your turn my turn between wade and bron. Ditto kyrie and bron, but that worked a bit better since kyrie is an elite shooter and thus a better fit.
Kyrie is a hilariously bad defender and Love was even worse. Not to mention the FACT that the 73 win Warriors added an MVP. The Warriors had significantly more talent than the Cavs and it's not particularly close.

The '14 Heat had 98 year old Allen playing 27 minutes. Bosh manning the paint, when he repeatedly said, he didn't want to play in the post at all. Wade, who was completely out of shape because of load management. A beyond washed Battier. Cole and Chalmers combining for nearly 65 minutes a game.

That Miami team was horrendously bad.



.
Africans that came here willingly (legal immigrants) earn much more than US-born whites:



2010 Average Income

African Women Immigrants.... $40,699
US Born White Women............ $27,114
African-American Women....... $21,696

African Men Immigrants......... $45,373
US Born White Men................. $49,478
African-American Men............ $24,000

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.courthousenews.com/african-immigrants-doing-well-in-united-states/


CONCLUSION: Africans that immigrate willingly earn the most, while Africans that immigrated unwillingly earn the least (slaves and African-American descendants).. aka slavery is the reason for the lower socioeconomic status of African-Americans.

People who tend to migrate usually are hardworking and intelligent, unlike you inbred retards with massive victim mentalities.




It's a dogshit offense that opponents exceed because opponents are fresher from playing a superior brand of basketball (ball movement)

the Nets end up more worn down then their opponents because their playground brand is amateur hour ball-dominance that doesn't wear down opponents

Nash is literally the biggest joke ever because it's the coach's fault.. he needs to commit to a change

Again, the Nets have the best offense EVER. They have dog shit defenders, you retard. How hard is that to understand?

[Axe]

Right, it doesn't take IQ, tactical awareness, work ethic, specific athletic abilities (agility, coordination etc.). Anyone can be Steph. You just need to know to shoot.

Honestly dude, your entire shtick as some kind of objective connoisseur has completely fallen apart with these takes on the Nets. youre no better than any one of these dumb Bran stans around here.
Oof

[3ball]

This is the recipe the warriors and spurs used to beat the heat and cavs by record margin. You notice at the beginning of the series and beginning of games, things were close, but then they would eventually get hit with a landslide. Because their ball movement based offenses wore the opposing defense out. Miami didn't have a bad defense... they had bad offense. Your turn my turn between wade and bron. Ditto kyrie and bron, but that worked a bit better since kyrie is an elite shooter and thus a better fit.


Exactly

And bron-ball can't landslide or go off

[3ball]

Right, it doesn't take IQ, tactical awareness, work ethic, specific athletic abilities (agility, coordination etc.). Anyone can be Steph. You just need to know to shoot.

Honestly dude, your entire shtick as some kind of objective connoisseur has completely fallen apart with these takes on the Nets. youre no better than any one of these dumb Bran stans around here.


Ball-dominance and 1-on-1 doesn't wear out the defense like ball movement

That's a fact

So the Nets can blunt the opponent's attack by wearing them out with ball movement..

Is that hard to understand or something?

2 + 2 = 4

[RoundMoundOfReb]

It does but not in the way you seem to think. If you have a great offence in theory the other team should be playing in the halfcourt more and therefore your defense should be better, not worse. Nets suck on defense despite having a great offence, indicating that their defense is ever worse than it appears.

[3ball]

It does but not in the way you seem to think. If you have a great offence in theory the other team should be playing in the halfcourt more and therefore your defense should be better, not worse. Nets suck on defense despite having a great offence, indicating that their defense is ever worse than it appears.


1-on-1 and ball-dominance only works 1 defender.. the other 4 get to rest

Otoh, ball movement works all 5 defenders - draining them - thus blunting their offensive attack

It's intuitive

I used the same argument against lebron - his ball-dominance doesn't shift defenses or wear down teams like the ball movement he faces on the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off offensively.. bron-ball (ball-dominance) loses the attrition battle on the championship level.. and these Nets are ridiculous with the ball-dominance - they can't even make bad teams work

[aj1987]

1-on-1 and ball-dominance only works 1 defender.. the other 4 get to rest

Otoh, ball movement works all 5 defenders - draining them - thus blunting their offensive attack

It's intuitive

I used the same argument against lebron - his ball-dominance doesn't shift defenses or wear down teams like the ball movement he faces on the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off offensively.. bron-ball (ball-dominance) loses the attrition battle on the championship level.. and these Nets are ridiculous with the ball-dominance - they can't even make bad teams work

You don't understand basketball. Do you even know the shape of a basketball?