Everyone had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention except MJ

[3ball]

That's the best GOAT argument because it covers all the bases:

it demonstrates why Pippen's weak scoring matters, and covers any issues related to the defense Jordan faced... or his ring difficulty, aka rings with equal scoring partners (1b's) < rings with 2nd options

Carry on.. sorry for the 3rd thread but the SouBeach one was a mistake

[Axe]

Time for permaban

[AirBonner]

Bill Russell has nearly twice the rings MJ has

[3ball]

Bill Russell has nearly twice the rings MJ has


Russell needed 5 hardens,, 3 pippen's and 2 Lukas

aka 10 HOF teammates needed to beat Wilt, the only comp that Jordan has for goat

[3ball]

.
Most rings with equal scoring partner (1b's)

(equal scoring partner attracts equal defensive attention)


Magic 5
Duncan 3
Kobe 3
Lebron 2



Most rings with 2nd options that score far less

(1-man team defensive coverage)


Jordan 6
Hakeem 2
Kobe 2
Wade 1

[Airupthere]

.
Most rings with equal scoring partner (1b's)

(equal scoring partner attracts equal defensive attention)


Magic 5
Duncan 3
Kobe 3
Lebron 2



Most rings with 2nd options that score far less

(1-man team defensive coverage)


Jordan 6
Hakeem 2
Kobe 2
Wade 1

Only 2 for Lebron? What?! :oldlol: Thanks indeed to AD and Wade/Bosh before him.

[3ball]

Only 2 for Lebron? What?! :oldlol: Thanks indeed to AD and Wade/Bosh before him.


Playoff PPG

11' Wade...... 24.5
11' Lebron.... 23.7

16' Kyrie...'.... 25.2
16' Lebron.... 26.3

20' AD........... 27.8
20' Lebron.... 27.7


^^^ equal scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, which makes stats easier

Don't be embarrassed for Lebron - everyone in history needed an equal scoring teammate for at least half their rings (they needed a 1b).

Only MJ won a bunch of rings with a true 2nd option that averaged far less, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive coverage for his entire career - this tougher coverage gives him maximum ring quality and stat quality.. rings with 2nd option > rings with 1b

In lebron's case, he can't win with true 2nd options because he can't shoot well at the higher volume required (more contested jumpshooting required).. so he needs an elite 1st option to play sidekick

[MaxPlayer]

I love this fresh new content

[SouBeachTalents]

2013 Wade is worse than '09 & '10 Gasol and '95 Drexler in virtually every metric across the board, especially your favorite ppg & efficiency. Not only that, LeBron outscored him by 10 ppg and yet that's seen as an "equal scoring partner"

Fakkit :oldlol:

[Airupthere]

Playoff PPG

11' Wade...... 24.5
11' Lebron.... 23.7

16' Kyrie...'.... 25.2
16' Lebron.... 26.3

20' AD........... 27.8
20' Lebron.... 27.7


^^^ equal scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, which makes stats easier

Don't be embarrassed for Lebron - everyone in history needed an equal scoring teammate for at least half their rings (they needed a 1b).

Only MJ won a bunch of rings with a true 2nd option that averaged far less, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive coverage for his entire career - this tougher coverage gives him maximum ring quality and stat quality).. rings with 2nd option > rings with 1b

In lebron's case, he can't win with true 2nd options because he can't shoot well at the higher volume required (more contested jumpshooting required)

I remember when Lebron made that superteam in MIA his fg% started going up. Until later him and Wade were somewhat competing for high fg%. The vanity on that stat got ridiculuos.

These are the luxuries afforded to you playing with other stars.

[3ball]

2013 Wade is worse than '09 & '10 Gasol and '95 Drexler in virtually every metric across the board, especially your favorite ppg & efficiency


But lebron himself only averaged 25 - that's only 5 more than Wade in the Finals

Regardless, Wade outscored lebron in the 11' Finals, so lebron always needs someone capable of outscoring him..

he needs an elite 1st option to play sidekick.

Again, he can't win with true 2nd options because he can't shoot well at the higher volume required (more contested jumpshooting required).. so he needs that "closer" to take the tough shots

[RRR3]

2013 Wade is worse than '09 & '10 Gasol and '95 Drexler in virtually every metric across the board, especially your favorite ppg & efficiency. Not only that, LeBron outscored him by 10 ppg and yet that's seen as an "equal scoring partner"

Fakkit :oldlol:
He has no actual beliefs.

[8Ball]

Jordan was too much of a ball hog chucker.

Jordan needed a Pippen to do everything else for the team like run the offense.

When Jordan doesn't have Pippen. Jordan makes the 8th seed and gets swept in 1st round 3 years in a row.

[8Ball]

That's the best GOAT argument because it covers all the bases:

it demonstrates why Pippen's weak scoring matters, and covers any issues related to the defense Jordan faced... or his ring difficulty, aka rings with equal scoring partners (1b's) < rings with 2nd options

Carry on.. sorry for the 3rd thread but the SouBeach one was a mistake

Best GOAT argument is more All NBA 1st teams than Jordan has in career years.

We are gonna have 15 all nba 1st teams. Jordan only played 15 seasons.

[And1AllDay]

thread ender

https://i.postimg.cc/26qKkR0F/919293969798wow.jpg

[light]

That's the best GOAT argument because it covers all the bases:

it demonstrates why Pippen's weak scoring matters, and covers any issues related to the defense Jordan faced... or his ring difficulty, aka rings with equal scoring partners (1b's) < rings with 2nd options

Carry on.. sorry for the 3rd thread but the SouBeach one was a mistake

Nobody thought of the Bulls like that in the 90s, guy. Defenses didn't think they only had to game plan for Jordan. That's ridiculous.

Since apparently you weren't alive at the time I think you should know that Scottie Pippen was a highly respected superstar who had already reached all-time great status by 1992 and he could score and play make at will as necessary too.

Jordan and Pippen were without question a super duo - offensively and defensively - and they were in fact the best duo in the league - and teams lost sleep over both of them.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-6.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-5.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-3.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-1.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-2.png

[Kings2024Champs]

Time for permaban

:bowdown:

[SouBeachTalents]

Nobody thought of the Bulls like that in the 90s, guy. Defenses didn't think they only had to game plan for Jordan. That's ridiculous.

Since apparently you weren't alive at the time I think you should know that Scottie Pippen was a highly respected superstar who had already reached all-time great status by 1992 and he could score and play make at will as necessary too.

Jordan and Pippen were without question a super duo - offensively and defensively - and they were in fact the best duo in the league - and teams lost sleep over both of them.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-6.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-5.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-3.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-1.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-2.png
Damn, 30,000 posts and 7 years of dedication erased in just one post

[8Ball]

Nobody thought of the Bulls like that in the 90s, guy. Defenses didn't think they only had to game plan for Jordan. That's ridiculous.

Since apparently you weren't alive at the time I think you should know that Scottie Pippen was a highly respected superstar who had already reached all-time great status by 1992 and he could score and play make at will as necessary too.

Jordan and Pippen were without question a super duo - offensively and defensively - and they were in fact the best duo in the league - and teams lost sleep over both of them.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-6.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-5.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-3.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-1.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-2.png

Game over..

[3ball]

Nobody thought of the Bulls like that in the 90s, guy. Defenses didn't think they only had to game plan for Jordan. That's ridiculous.

Since apparently you weren't alive at the time I think you should know that Scottie Pippen was a highly respected superstar who had already reached all-time great status by 1992 and he could score and play make at will as necessary too.

Jordan and Pippen were without question a super duo - offensively and defensively - and they were in fact the best duo in the league - and teams lost sleep over both of them.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-6.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-5.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-3.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-1.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/dynamic-duo-2.png


Who cares

Fan speak "best duo"

Anyone remotely decent with Jordan is the best duo.. that was the thinking at the time

There's no refuting the statistical reality - everyone in history needed an equal-scoring teammate to win half their rings (1b)....... except Jordan, who won with a true 2nd option that averaged far less..

this matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive coverage for his entire career (thus giving max integrity to his stats and rings)

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s

[GrayGoat]

MJ played in a weak league where if you drop 50pts you could win the game

[kawhileonard2]

MJ played in a weak league where if you drop 50pts you could win the game

This is the weak era. Steph Curry in the 90's is Dell Curry and Dell Curry now is Steph Curry.

[3ball]

MJ played in a weak league where if you drop 50pts you could win the game


Because it was much harder to score 50 pts.

There's no refuting the statistical reality - everyone in history needed an equal-scoring teammate to win half their rings (1b)....... except Jordan, who won with a true 2nd option that always averaged far less..

this matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive coverage for his entire career (thus giving max integrity to his stats and rings)

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s