Muhammad Ali vs. Michael Jordan

[HighFlyer23]

Who was the greater athlete in his respective sport? Who was greater outside his respective sport?

Ali's resume in boxing is second to none. He fought during the golden age of heavyweights in boxing and never ducked or dodged anyone.

He has victories over old Archie Moore, Sonny Liston (twice), Floyd Patterson (twice), George Chuvalo (twice), Ernie Terrell, Zora Folley, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Joe Frazier (won 2 out of 3), George Foreman (Foreman was in his prime), Ken Norton (2 out of 3, albeit controversial), Ron Lyle, Chuck Wepner, Earnie Shavers.

He had 19 title defenses and is a 3 time heavyweight champion. He lost over 3 years if his prime due to his personal beliefs . He fought in 61 professional boxing matches and 49 of his opponents were in the top 10 at some point and 37 were in the top 10 when he fought them.

Jordan is a 6 time NBA champion and 6-0 in the finals. 5 MVPs, 6 FMVPs, 10 scoring titles, DPOY, ROY. 11 All NBA teams, highest PPG in NBA history at 30.12 PPG on 49.7%. Also was out in his prime and returned about 2 season later.

Both have accomplished a lot and in all honesty it's comparing apples and oranges ... But Ali's wins over Sonny Liston twice, Joe Frazier twice, and against a prime George Foreman at age 32 are more impressive than the teams Jordan defeated in the finals and playoffs. The impact of these wins is greater than what MJ was able to do.

And Ali was the greatest in terms of TV viewership

"The boxer Muhammad Ali drew record global television audiences during the 1970s to early 1980s. Estimates of Ali's worldwide television audiences for his "Rumble in the Jungle" fight against George Foreman in 1974,[6] "Thrilla in Manila" fight against Joe Frazier in 1975,[7] rematch against Leon Spinks in 1978,[8][9] and "Last Hurrah" fight against Larry Holmes in 1980, range between 1 billion and 2 billion people.[10] The 1996 Summer Olympics opening ceremony, where Muhammad Ali lit the torch, was watched by an estimated 3.5 billion viewers.[11]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-watched_television_broadcasts

2 billion people supposedly watched him defeat Leon Spinks in 1978.

Jordan isn't even on the list.

That's all for now.

[Axe]

Op making another thread to show his baldan derangement syndrome

[HighFlyer23]

Op making another thread to show his baldan derangement syndrome

He's supposed to be the GOAT

[Axe]

He's supposed to be the GOAT
He's a frail goat. Or maybe a fraud.

[HighFlyer23]

He's a frail goat. Or maybe a fraud.

He doesn't beat Gretzky either, another GOAT

Jordan coming up short ...

[Axe]

He doesn't beat Gretzky either, another GOAT

Jordan coming up short ...
Which is why he's not worth talking about anymore

[HighFlyer23]

Which is why he's not worth talking about anymore

Maradona won the World Cup nearly on his own.

That's like Jordan beating the 86 Celtics or 87 Lakers

Jordan behind Maradona on the GOAT list too ... Truly a frail GOAT we have in basketball

[iamgine]

Ali is perhaps the most famous, but he's not considered the greatest in boxing. That title in general belongs to Ray Robinson. And then there's some other names who can be considered above Ali like Pep, Greb, Armstrong, Louis, Ezzard, etc.

So in this respect Jordan clearly wins because almost everyone considers him at least top 3 with many considers him the GOAT.

[HighFlyer23]

Ali is perhaps the most famous, but he's not considered the greatest in boxing. That title in general belongs to Ray Robinson. And then there's some other names who can be considered above Ali like Pep, Greb, Armstrong, Louis, Ezzard, etc.

So in this respect Jordan clearly wins because almost everyone considers him at least top 3 with many considers him the GOAT.

Ali is considered the GOAT heavyweight while Ray Robinson is the pound for pound GOAT by the majority.

Ray Robinson is over Jordan too in terms of greatness in his sport

[iamgine]

Ali is considered the GOAT heavyweight while Ray Robinson is the pound for pound GOAT by the majority.

Ray Robinson is over Jordan too in terms of greatness in his sport
Isn't that what I wrote? Why are you repeating it?

[baudkarma]

Outside of their sports there's no question that Ali had a much greater impact. Jordan has always been careful to avoid any sort of controversy that would alienate fans and make his various sponsors unhappy. Ali was defiant about defending what he believed was right, and never shied away from controversy. He was widely reviled for refusing to be inducted into the armed forces in 1967, and was not allowed to box for almost 4 years, but he did it anyway.

In their sport... I give it to Ali as well. Boxing is a much more demanding sport that basketball, both physically and mentally. It's also a lot more dangerous. The 60's and 70's are considered the golden age of heavyweight boxing, and Ali was the best of the bunch.

[Axe]

Maradona won the World Cup nearly on his own.

That's like Jordan beating the 86 Celtics or 87 Lakers

Jordan behind Maradona on the GOAT list too ... Truly a frail GOAT we have in basketball
The only reason why jordan is being involved in the goat arguments is that he once happened to be the most decorated player of a great team, one that became a dynasty in the league due to their dominance during the 90s. But despite that, maybe fans or analysts could have picked a role player like paxson instead if only he did serve for the bulls' two-peats.

Now stop talking about him already ffs. Whining on his fraudulence won't change anything about what his stans may think of him. It's pathetic.

[west_tip]

Outside of their sports there's no question that Ali had a much greater impact. Jordan has always been careful to avoid any sort of controversy that would alienate fans and make his various sponsors unhappy. Ali was defiant about defending what he believed was right, and never shied away from controversy. He was widely reviled for refusing to be inducted into the armed forces in 1967, and was not allowed to box for almost 4 years, but he did it anyway.



Just because he wasnt overtly political and outspoken Jordan's impact off court impact is massively underrated.

All the players in the league right now making money that will set future generations of their families up for life owe him a huge debt for making the NBA what it is today.

Jordan also united white & black people in the US which in a racially polarized society is no small feat. Also he was a great ambassador for the US and popularized basketball worldwide to where guys like Parker & Ginobili say he was their childhood idol.

I liken Jordan to Joe Louis.... Neither one spoke out against the political system and both portrayed themselves as All American patriots but through their excellence in the sporting arena they inspired and united their fellow Americans and helped their fellow black men advance and gain further acceptance in American society.

[west_tip]

Also, they were products of their era. Jordan played during a period of relative peace & prosperity in the US where the US was as racially integrated as it has ever been historically, 1988/89 somewhere around there. Ali competed in a very turbulent time of the 60s and 70s.

What was Jordan supposed to do - protest the first Gulf War & Lewinskygate.

[iamgine]

Jordan indeed had a massive impact in popularizing basketball all around the world. In that sense he's like Mike Tyson. As a person he's nothing special, maybe even a selfish ass. But millions of people started watching boxing because of Mike Tyson. That's really extraordinary, especially in the era before social media.

[hateraid]

This comparison is actually good because it's the mainstream mindset of GOAT in their respective sport.

[HighFlyer23]

The only reason why jordan is being involved in the goat arguments is that he once happened to be the most decorated player of a great team, one that became a dynasty in the league due to their dominance during the 90s. But despite that, maybe fans or analysts could have picked a role player like paxson instead if only he did serve for the bulls' two-peats.

Now stop talking about him already ffs. Whining on his fraudulence won't change anything about what his stans may think of him. It's pathetic.

It's not whinning son. It's doing a service to you and the rest of these Jordan lovers. I'll talk about the mother ****er as much as I want. **** off *******.


Isn't that what I wrote? Why are you repeating it?
Because you didn't write that. Now GTFO.

[Axe]

It's not whinning son. It's doing a service to you and the rest of these Jordan lovers. I'll talk about the mother ****er as much as I want. **** off *******.


Because you didn't write that. Now GTFO.
Lol he doesn't even know who you are at all, just like the others who do try to hate king kong so much. :confusedshrug:

[HighFlyer23]

Lol he doesn't even know who you are at all, just like the others who do try to hate king kong so much. :confusedshrug:

You consider Jordan to be high up on the GOAT list with the other mentioned?

Ali, Robinson, Gretzky, Maradona, Ruth, Phelps, Bolt, Pele, Bradman, Karelin, Woods?

Karelin was 887-2 in wrestling ... MJ compares to him?

Is MJ even better than Kareem?

[Axe]

You consider Jordan to be high up on the GOAT list with the other mentioned?

Ali, Robinson, Gretzky, Maradona, Ruth, Phelps, Bolt, Pele, Bradman, Karelin, Woods?

Karelin was 887-2 in wrestling ... MJ compares to him?
No.

But he probably is during the 'weakest' decade ever.

[HighFlyer23]

No.

But he probably is during the 'weakest' decade ever.

That's another good point ... The 90s had new franchises and expansion teams ... That means talent dilution ... It wasn't as strong as the 80s and MJ benefited from coddling by the league because he was their biggest star ... In the past it was the opposite ... The NBA made rule changes due to Wilt Chamberlain dominance and made it harder for him and other players .... With Jordan it was the opposite ... They opened the game up for him and perimeter players ...Shaq also had the 3 second rule implemented to prevent his dominance in the paint ...

[Axe]

That's another good point ... The 90s had new franchises and expansion teams ... That means talent dilution ... It wasn't as strong as the 80s and MJ benefited from coddling by the league because he was their biggest star ... In the past it was the opposite ... The NBA made rule changes due to Wilt Chamberlain dominance and made it harder for him and other players .... With Jordan it was the opposite ... They opened the game up for him and perimeter players ...Shaq also had the 3 second rule implemented to prevent his dominance in the paint ...
That and don't forget that he also tried crying to the refs about bad boy pistons when he couldn't take the pressure anymore, unlike larry bird who simply had to go through it without complaining whatsoever. Hence, the flagrant foul was implemented and the bad boy pistons were never the same wicked team again. What else? I think he also played for a team that has won 55 games and made the playoffs during their first year without him. But honestly, i'm just saying all of these to make you feel better somehow.

[HighFlyer23]

That and don't forget that he also tried crying to the refs about bad boy pistons when he couldn't take the pressure anymore, unlike larry bird who simply had to go through it without complaining whatsoever. Hence, the flagrant foul was implemented and the bad boy pistons were never the same wicked team again. What else? I think he also played for a team that has won 55 games and made the playoffs during their first year without him. But honestly, i'm just saying all of these to make you feel better somehow.

Dude I don't give two shits about Jordan

But these other athletes didn't have the same backing Jordan did. What they did in their respective sports is comparable and even superior to what Jordan has done and achieved. ESPN has Jordan as their #1 athlete of all time ... Based on what criteria? He's the most worshipped athlete by American media and it's laughable.

I don't remember other sporting leagues or governing bodies catering to their star athletes either ... Jordan getting everything handed to him easy compared to others

[Axe]

Dude I don't give two shits about Jordan

But these other athletes didn't have the same backing Jordan did. What they did in their respective sports is comparable and even superior to what Jordan has done and achieved. ESPN has Jordan as their #1 athlete of all time ... Based on what criteria? He's the most worshipped athlete by American media and it's laughable.

I don't remember other sporting leagues or governing bodies catering to their star athletes either ... Jordan getting everything handed to him easy compared to others
Yea the nba has many atgs and should be respected as well. That makes jordan overrated and because of that, you know that you don't have to be brainwashed by what the msm tells you. I could use a different example here. It's kinda like a certain politician with a high position being praised by the same party all the time because he/she is affiliated with them, even if in reality he/she is a warmonger, have done so many shitty things in their country and is only concerned about the welfare of their own allies. At the same time, they would demonize any of their opposition too. That may be the thing happening with jordan rn. They make it seem like he's the only bball player in the universe and in the process, dismiss any other atgs with equal goat cases over him. However, in this board, i have observed that many posters (which some are using alts or dups) are also doing the same thing with lebron while being fans of other teams as well, so...

[HighFlyer23]

Yea the nba has many atgs and should be respected as well. That makes jordan overrated and because of that, you know that you don't have to be brainwashed by what the msm tells you. I could use a different example here. It's kinda like a certain politician with a high position being praised by the same party all the time because he/she is affiliated with them, even if in reality he/she is a warmonger, have done so many shitty things in their country and is only concerned about the welfare of their own allies. At the same time, they would demonize any of their opposition too. That may be the thing happening with jordan rn. They make it seem like he's the only bball player in the universe and in the process, dismiss any other atgs with equal goat cases over him. However, in this board, i have observed that many posters (which some are using alts or dups) are also doing the same thing with lebron while being fans of other teams as well, so...

Basketball has the weakest GOAT of all sports

And I don't recall another GOAT of other sports dominating in a relatively weak era like Jordan

[Axe]

Funny how i still got a reply to this after 7 days. :oldlol:

Anyway..


Basketball has the weakest GOAT of all sports

And I don't recall another GOAT of other sports dominating in a relatively weak era like Jordan
Yea, weakest goat probably. Having that said however, there's nothing much you can do to change the mind of these 'delusional' stans who have done nothing but to worship him all the time, regardless if you compose a thousand words melting down about it. So if i were you, i suggest you to move on from this matter already. You're just wasting time trying to stress yourself over this stuff.

[tpols]

In terms of trash talk, I think Ali would give MJ a run for his money. MJ is smart no doubt, but listen to an Ali interview.... that guy was brilliant.

[HighFlyer23]

In terms of trash talk, I think Ali would give MJ a run for his money. MJ is smart no doubt, but listen to an Ali interview.... that guy was brilliant.

What? Gary Payton is the concensus best trash talker in league history ... Larry Bird is ahead of Jordan as well

[clipps]

Well, Michael Jordan is currently the better boxer.

[TheMan]

Well, Michael Jordan is currently the better boxer.

Bro, that's wrong :lol

[Street Hunger]

Jordan.

Unless I was a boxing fan, then I'd say Ali.

In other words, I don't know.