Triple doubles and 30, 40 and 50 point games seem routine now - thoughts?

[hiphopanonymous]

Do you guys have any thoughts on this? Is it rules? Is it "players are just better"? And whatever the explanation - do we need to flatten these kinds of numbers to compare with the brands of basketball of certain years or eras that were more of a grind it out variety? And if so how would we even do that? Do we raise or lower everyone's averages across the board or do we get very specific about what gets adjusted and how? I notice certain years of NBA basketball, and sometimes certain decades everyone's stats can seem to spike and other years or decades certain stats can seem to dip. Do we actually count these years where spikes occur as zeniths of basketball being played at truly the best levels of whatever is spiking and the dips actual low points or is it best to try and flatten it all out?

[Gimmedarock]

Obviously rules are a huge factor. It IS probably easier to score than in years past but players are better at scoring now also. How many guys score 40 or 50 without shooting the three? Everybody can strike it now. There’s more opportunities for guys now because you don’t feed one player like back in the day. The drive & kick game is huge so assists are going to be up. Nothing needs changed to me. Game is pretty much perfect.

[warriorfan]

Do you guys have any thoughts on this? Is it rules? Is it "players are just better"? And whatever the explanation - do we need to flatten these kinds of numbers to compare with the brands of basketball of certain years or eras that were more of a grind it out variety? And if so how would we even do that? Do we raise or lower everyone's averages across the board or do we get very specific about what gets adjusted and how? I notice certain years of NBA basketball, and sometimes certain decades everyone's stats can seem to spike and other years or decades certain stats can seem to dip. Do we actually count these years where spikes occur as zeniths of basketball being played at truly the best levels of whatever is spiking and the dips actual low points or is it best to try and flatten it all out?

There is some adjustment by era, like we do with some of the players from the 60’s. People don’t take those stats for face value, people will do similar when looking back at this era.

[tpols]

I think it's easier for perimeter players to get rebounds with all the 3 point shooting which leads to wild bounces. Points are just easier in general because of the spacing you get from 3 pointers, and a weak crop of defensive C's relative to past eras. I looked it up the worst defense in the league in 1994 gave up 108 ppg. And that's what the kawhi and paul george elite ranked clippers give up today.

[Bronbron23]

Do you guys have any thoughts on this? Is it rules? Is it "players are just better"? And whatever the explanation - do we need to flatten these kinds of numbers to compare with the brands of basketball of certain years or eras that were more of a grind it out variety? And if so how would we even do that? Do we raise or lower everyone's averages across the board or do we get very specific about what gets adjusted and how? I notice certain years of NBA basketball, and sometimes certain decades everyone's stats can seem to spike and other years or decades certain stats can seem to dip. Do we actually count these years where spikes occur as zeniths of basketball being played at truly the best levels of whatever is spiking and the dips actual low points or is it best to try and flatten it all out?

Definitely mostly the era. Not because players are worse. It's purely the rules and style of play. The rules allows for more scoring because you can't fight through screens, contest shots or touch anyone. That combined with the run and gun three ball spread out offense is like stats on steroids because not only is scoring and assists easier, rebounds are also easier because there's less traffic in the paint which means leas bigs battling for the boards.

[8Ball]

Higher skilled era.

[Gohan]

Lmao iverson would average 38 in this era guranteed

[Airupthere]

Lol at those that think that past players will not be able to compete in this era if they grew up in this era.

[TheGoatest]

Imagine LeBron playing in an era where this guy had three straight 19-8-8-3 seasons:

https://img.comc.com/ebay-both/c67fa9f8-2557-4248-a84e-37b4ffc66afe.jpg

He would be getting 40 points, 15 rebounds and 15 assists per game without breaking a sweat.

[tpols]

Imagine LeBron playing in an era where this guy had three straight 19-8-8-3 seasons:

https://img.comc.com/ebay-both/c67fa9f8-2557-4248-a84e-37b4ffc66afe.jpg

He would be getting 40 points, 15 rebounds and 15 assists per game without breaking a sweat.

I don't get it. Whats wrong with that guy's picture? Usually when you guys want to make fun of a past era you show a picture of a white guy.

[RRR3]

Imagine LeBron playing in an era where this guy had three straight 19-8-8-3 seasons:

https://img.comc.com/ebay-both/c67fa9f8-2557-4248-a84e-37b4ffc66afe.jpg

He would be getting 40 points, 15 rebounds and 15 assists per game without breaking a sweat.
Looks like a plumber :oldlol:

LeBron would be unanimous GOAT if he played back then.

[Gohan]

Nah lebron wouldn’t be in the league. He would be a Disney channel movie star

[tpols]

Looks like a plumber :oldlol:

LeBron would be unanimous GOAT if he played back then.

6'3 175 lb?

That's the same height and weight as Steph Curry and he owned Bran's soul. And with much better stats than 19/8/8.

[light]

They were much more common decades ago.

One time a player even averaged 50 points per game!

[Axe]

Nah lebron wouldn’t be in the league. He would be a Disney channel movie star
Idk. That sounds more like curry given his kids choice awards and nominees.

[paksat]

you can't play defense, is it shocking people score more?

everyones averages hopped up massively in the mid 2000's with the rule changes to hand checking, so what's your question again?

[Micku]

As other ppl said, my guess is a few things.

1. Rules make it easier for offensive perimeter players to strive.

2. Pace and space. I think with pace, it increase the amount of rebounds and opportunities for you to score.

3. When you shoot a three, many teams rush to get back as oppose to stick around for the offensive rebound.

Points are easier nowadays. Even the style. Getting assists are easier due to the catch and shoot and spacing.

[csh19792001]

The introduction of the double breakaway rim in 2009-2010 changed the game a hell of a lot more than people realize.

Along with the drastically softer defensive rules for perimeter players, making it MUCH easier to shoot/get open shots.

The double breakaway rim was probably as fundamental to increasing scoring and perimeter shooting as the 1981-1982 introduction of the original breakaway rim.

And, yes, in the era of analytics/Information Age, the players understand efficiency now, quite well, and did not in the previous eras.

[csh19792001]

I looked at 2009-2010 through 2018-2019 to omit shortened seasons. Regular season only:

--There were 638 instances of a triple double, and the top 5 players averaged 59 triple doubles. Westbrook led with 137.
--There were 85 instances of 50 point games by 34 players. Harden led with 18.
--There were 699 forty point games by 113 players. Haden led with 77.

I also looked at 1994-1995 through 2003-2004 for comparison's sake:

--There were 354 triple doubles. The top 5 averaged 26 triple doubles. Kidd led with 59.
--There were 49 fifty point games. The top 5 averaged 4 such games. Iverson led with 6.
--There were 489 forty point games. The top 5 averaged 37 such games. Iverson led with 50.

So, yes, Iverson would likely do much better, relatively speaking, with today's rules and equipment. And Curry would likely be in a lot of trouble playing in, say, the 80's, when defensive rules/enforcement thereof was drastically different, and players couldn't/didn't shoot from the outside nearly as much/NEARLY as well.

[2much_knowledge]

Its all about the subtle rule changes over the years. Look no further than the spike of total triple doubles betwen the 2013 season and the 2015 season. It went from 12-15 to 30-40 (With the same group of players). And naive casual fans think that its because todays players are twice as better lololol

[Axe]

And naive casual fans think that its because todays players are twice as better lololol
Are these the same casual fans who say that pre-00s were a watered down era?

[2much_knowledge]

Are these the same casual fans who say that pre-00s were a watered down era?

Could be. Im not against the fact that the dribbling and shooting are better than ever. But rim protection and physical play are worse than ever and stars of all eras could adapt to any set of rules, nutrition, tendencies and so forth. I personally think mid to late 80s and early 00s were the toughest and most competitive eras by far

[Mr. Woke]

Players are better on average nowadays.

The modern era is the toughest and most competitive era in NBA history.

[Jasper]

OP has a point but look below at the average shooting percentage for the league by year Other than the 60's at 420 or less the average was pretty consistently at .45 w/ or without the 3 point line.
The problem with the NBA was in the Jordan era defense was vicious and the league scoring average dipped because of the defense.
It was what the league was stating a Mans league. They wanted to change the image of the rawness of the top bball game of the planet and Stein was instrumental in making the game 'we will say' more enjoyable to watch .
https://www.basketball-reference.com/tools/share.fcgi?id=L9obe

[Bronbron23]

Players are better on average nowadays.

The modern era is the toughest and most competitive era in NBA history.

It's so hard to say with the different set of rules and style of play. If you look at position i'd definitely say the point gaurd and sf positions are better but even saying the point gaurd position is better is tough to say because it's a point gaurd league now. They're used as a scoring option more than ever. This is why comparing era's and stats is pointless.

All i know though is a very mediocre heat team who looks like a middlle of the pact 90's playoff team just made the finals and took 2 games of a really great lakers team so this notion that players and teams are better these days dosn't really jive.

[2much_knowledge]

How is it that tough? Soft whistles, flopping, silly flagrant fouls, friendliness between stars, superstar collusion, load management, easier to pad stats. No really great centers protecting the paint..

[FireDavidKahn]

Talent is through the roof nowadays

[clipps]

Players are better on average nowadays.

The modern era is the toughest and most competitive era in NBA history.

Toughest? You must be a b*itch.

[FireDavidKahn]

People mistake extremely lax rules, packing the paint and literally assaulting people as being better basketball:roll:

Takes way less skill to pull off the above.

[sundizz]

The introduction of the double breakaway rim in 2009-2010 changed the game a hell of a lot more than people realize.

Along with the drastically softer defensive rules for perimeter players, making it MUCH easier to shoot/get open shots.

The double breakaway rim was probably as fundamental to increasing scoring and perimeter shooting as the 1981-1982 introduction of the original breakaway rim.

And, yes, in the era of analytics/Information Age, the players understand efficiency now, quite well, and did not in the previous eras.

I want to hear more about this

[Bronbron23]

People mistake extremely lax rules, packing the paint and literally assaulting people as being better basketball:roll:

Takes way less skill to pull off the above.

Actually the point is it takes alot of skill to be able to score against that.

It's really not arguable. The league put in their mandate that they put all these rules in to make scoring easier. It's like arguing the earrh is flat tbh

[Bronbron23]

Talent is through the roof nowadays

It's really not though. It's alot of screens and threes or pick and rolls or screens to get a switch against an easier defender. It's very predictable but impossible to stop because of the rules.

[Mr. Woke]

It's so hard to say with the different set of rules and style of play. If you look at position i'd definitely say the point gaurd and sf positions are better but even saying the point gaurd position is better is tough to say because it's a point gaurd league now. They're used as a scoring option more than ever. This is why comparing era's and stats is pointless.

All i know though is a very mediocre heat team who looks like a middlle of the pact 90's playoff team just made the finals and took 2 games of a really great lakers team so this notion that players and teams are better these days dosn't really jive.

The Heat last year were better than most playoff teams in the 90s lol.

Players and teams are better nowadays. It's ok to admit that.

[Mr. Woke]

Toughest? You must be a b*itch.

You seem like a bitch.

[Mr. Woke]

People mistake extremely lax rules, packing the paint and literally assaulting people as being better basketball:roll:

Takes way less skill to pull off the above.

You are right.

Lol at the people with nostalgia glasses ITT!

[Bronbron23]

The Heat last year were better than most playoff teams in the 90s lol.

Players and teams are better nowadays. It's ok to admit that.

They really weren't though. What made them better? They had no superstars and there was nothing really special about them.

[Ghost1]

It's really not though. It's alot of screens and threes or pick and rolls or screens to get a switch against an easier defender. It's very predictable but impossible to stop because of the rules.

bro, you stan giannis. he'd be a joke 20 years ago

[Bronbron23]

bro, you stan giannis. he'd be a joke 20 years ago

Not sure how i stan greek. I barely talk about him. I just think his potential is great but he obviously has alot of work to do. He needs a mid and post game so teams can't wall him up as easy.

He wouldn't be a joke but i agree he'd definitely have a much harder time in a more slower half court game era.

Not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in china though

[Mr. Woke]

They really weren't though. What made them better? They had no superstars and there was nothing really special about them.

A lot of playoff teams in the 90s were merely fake contenders (ex: Trail Blazers, Jazz, Knicks, Sonics, Pacers, etc).

From 1990 to 1993 and then from 1994 to 1998 I believed that (barring an injury to MJ) the Bulls were gonna win. Almost every year I was proven right (except for the 94-95 season).

I enjoyed watching the Bulls due to their greatness, and I accepted the fact that they really didn't have a serious challenger during those seasons.

[Bronbron23]

A lot of playoff teams in the 90s were merely fake contenders (ex: Trail Blazers, Jazz, Knicks, Sonics, Pacers, etc).

From 1990 to 1993 and then from 1994 to 1998 I believed that (barring an injury to MJ) the Bulls were gonna win. Almost every year I was proven right (except for the 94-95 season).

I enjoyed watching the Bulls due to their greatness, and I accepted the fact that they really didn't have a serious challenger during those seasons.

Dude the east was the stronger conference for much of the 90's. It's been the weaker conference for most of the 2000's including last year. The east has been nothing but fake contenders lately and it dosn't get any worse than last years hear who might the worst finals team ever.

[csh19792001]

I want to hear more about this

What would you like to know?

[csh19792001]

A lot of playoff teams in the 90s were merely fake contenders (ex: Trail Blazers, Jazz, Knicks, Sonics, Pacers, etc).

From 1990 to 1993 and then from 1994 to 1998 I believed that (barring an injury to MJ) the Bulls were gonna win. Almost every year I was proven right (except for the 94-95 season).

I enjoyed watching the Bulls due to their greatness, and I accepted the fact that they really didn't have a serious challenger during those seasons.

Mr. Woke is right. Jordan never really beat anyone that great. Not like 1980's Celtics or Lakers great.

Put Jordan in the Eastern Conference in ridiculously competitive and physical 1980's Eastern Conference and he's toast.

[ArbitraryWater]

the effects of being in the most talented era of all time


every team has 2 all star level players

[paksat]

They really weren't though. What made them better? They had no superstars and there was nothing really special about them.

why do you reply to him? He's the most obvious troll ever, his username is literally woke

[FireDavidKahn]

It's really not though. It's alot of screens and threes or pick and rolls or screens to get a switch against an easier defender. It's very predictable but impossible to stop because of the rules.

It's impossible to stop because the talent is through the roof. More people are capable of doing it then before.

[Mr. Woke]

Dude the east was the stronger conference for much of the 90's. It's been the weaker conference for most of the 2000's including last year. The east has been nothing but fake contenders lately and it dosn't get any worse than last years hear who might the worst finals team ever.

The NBA of the 1990s was weaker than the modern era.

[Mr. Woke]

why do you reply to him? He's the most obvious troll ever, his username is literally woke

Don't let me live rent free in your mind for too long cupcake.

[clipps]

People mistake extremely lax rules, packing the paint and literally assaulting people as being better basketball:roll:

Takes way less skill to pull off the above.

You must be that fakket that calls offensive fouls in a pick up game.

[Manny98]

The rules do make it easier for perimeter players to obtain huge statlines but we also have to acknowledge how players today are more skilled and multi faceted in their overall skillset

We didn't have 6"11 monsters like Kevin Durant who can pull up from 30 with guard handles back then

[clipps]

The rules do make it easier for perimeter players to obtain huge statlines but we also have to acknowledge how players today are more skilled and multi faceted in their overall skillset

We didn't have 6"11 monsters like Kevin Durant who can pull up from 30 with guard handles back then

He's 6'9", stupid.

[Bronbron23]

The rules do make it easier for perimeter players to obtain huge statlines but we also have to acknowledge how players today are more skilled and multi faceted in their overall skillset

We didn't have 6"11 monsters like Kevin Durant who can pull up from 30 with guard handles back then

Yeah it's more complicated than that though. 6'll players were just centers and fowards but still very good they just played a different style. Is kd any better than hakeem or robinson? I mean he may go down better because of his weak move to the warriors and the chipis and fmvp's he got from that but impact wise i don't know if he is. People now just think threes mean more skill but it's just different skills, each better suited for their era.

It's why i hate era arguments. If kd and steph and whoever came up in the 90's they wouldn't be shooting 10 plus threea a game. It's not how the game was played. Vice versa if mj or whoever came up now they would shoot and practice more threes because that's this era. On the flip side people saying guys now are to soft to handle the 90's is dumb because they'd be much tougher and play more physical because that's the environment they'd come up in.

[Bronbron23]

He's 6'9", stupid.

Kd? He looks all of 6'11

[Manny98]

He's 6'9", stupid.

Here's KD standing next to Demarcus Cousins who Is listed at 6'11

https://i.postimg.cc/fbqWPHf8/Kevin-Durant-STACK.jpg

[Manny98]

Yeah it's more complicated than that though. 6'll players were just centers and fowards but still very good they just played a different style. Is kd any better than hakeem or robinson? I mean he may go down better because of his weak move to the warriors and the chipis and fmvp's he got from that but impact wise i don't know if he is. People now just think threes mean more skill but it's just different skills, each better suited for their era.

It's why i hate era arguments. If kd and steph and whoever came up in the 90's they wouldn't be shooting 10 plus threea a game. It's not how the game was played. Vice versa if mj or whoever came up now they would shoot and practice more threes because that's this era. On the flip side people saying guys now are to soft to handle the 90's is dumb because they'd be much tougher and play more physical because that's the environment they'd come up in.
Yh I can agree somewhat that players today aren't necessary more skilled they just practice shooting 3s more and have a better understanding of the importance of spacing.

+ Superstar's today are WAY more ball dominant which also leads to them having a higher statistical output

[Bronbron23]

Yh I can agree somewhat that players today aren't necessary more skilled they just practice shooting 3s more and have a better understanding of the importance of spacing.

+ Superstar's today are WAY more ball dominant which also leads to them having a higher statistical output

Yeah it's definitely a different game. I personally prefer the more physical half court game but i get that it's not for everyone and i don't claim it to be better it's just personal preference plus come semifinals and finals it usually reverts back to that somewhat anyway.

[Axe]

Could be. Im not against the fact that the dribbling and shooting are better than ever. But rim protection and physical play are worse than ever and stars of all eras could adapt to any set of rules, nutrition, tendencies and so forth. I personally think mid to late 80s and early 00s were the toughest and most competitive eras by far
One thing is certain tho. Jacking a lot of threes has become the norm nowadays which translates to high-octane scoring games. Even centers had to adjust for this.

[paksat]

Don't let me live rent free in your mind for too long cupcake.

meltdown

[HighFlyer23]

Weak effeminate tranny league

[Mr. Woke]

meltdown

Nice projection.

You are the one having a meltdown.

[clipps]

Here's KD standing next to Demarcus Cousins who Is listed at 6'11

https://i.postimg.cc/fbqWPHf8/Kevin-Durant-STACK.jpg

Shitty camera angle. He's 6'9". Demarcus Cousins is slouching pretty bad. You're a retard.