When did Lebron James start joining the GOAT conversation?

[iamgine]

Anyone remember?

[Kiddlovesnets]

Never, we can’t remember what hasn’t and will not ever happen. Lebron was already disqualified from GOAT conversation since losing to Spurs in 2007. The 100% finals record is a necessary condition for GOAT, any loss in a finals series will mathematically eliminate a player from the discussion.

/thread

[Manny98]

When he came out of his Mothers womb

[RRR3]

It started getting serious after the 2016 finals. It intensified after he kept adding more to his longevity and added another ring last season.

[SouBeachTalents]

Never, we can’t remember what hasn’t and will not ever happen. Lebron was already disqualified from GOAT conversation since losing to Spurs in 2007. The 100% finals record is a necessary condition for GOAT, any loss in a finals series will mathematically eliminate a player from the discussion.

/thread
Yep, Kareem, Wilt & Russell were never in the GOAT conversation either after they lost the Finals, great points as always :applause:

[RRR3]

Yep, Kareem, Wilt & Russell were never in the GOAT conversation either after they lost the Finals, great points as always :applause:
Why do you even respond to that retard?

[SouBeachTalents]

Why do you even respond to that retard?
Morbid curiosity

[Kiddlovesnets]

Yep, Kareem, Wilt & Russell were never in the GOAT conversation either after they lost the Finals, great points as always :applause:

Bad examples. The GOAT standards were different before MJ, it was a different time. Ever since MJ took the throne, the 100% finals record became a necessary condition. Until MJ's era, a player only needed to surpass Kareem to be GOAT, and now surpassing Kareem only makes him #2 all time.

[Airupthere]

Only when Lebron claimed so after winning one in CLE. The bronsexuals started believing him and started to noise off. Otherwise there is no serious discussion on it.

[sdot_thadon]

When Scottie Pippen said in the 2011 Ecf that he might be better than Mj. Basically a week before the 2011 finals...

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/76wmK2Vf/LeBron_and_some_game_7_rookies.png

https://i.postimg.cc/MGR4Fm7m/GOATchipalltime.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/1t7pSdPK/CrazyDream.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/gJwFLjsj/LeUnbreakableTop1.png


https://i.postimg.cc/Jzy9fjgy/winnig_dj_eat.gif

[HylianNightmare]

once he wins 2 more chips hell enter the conversation

[SouBeachTalents]

Bad examples. The GOAT standards were different before MJ, it was a different time. Ever since MJ took the throne, the 100% finals record became a necessary condition. Until MJ's era, a player only needed to surpass Kareem to be GOAT, and now surpassing Kareem only makes him #2 all time.
So Butler & Giannis go h2h in last years playoffs, with Giannis coming off winning MVP/DPOY and having the best record in the league. Butler outplays Giannis and his team beats his decisively, they make the Finals where Butler even outplays LeBron in some of the games, he has a statistically phenomenal Finals, but he's no longer in GOAT contention and Giannis is.

I want you to admit this is what you believe :lol

[Axe]

Since 84

[light]

Anyone remember?

It had already started by 2009-2010 with Oscar Robertson saying "LeBron is in class by himself" and Larry Bird saying "LeBron's as good as anybody that's played this game."

By the summer of 2011 it was already in full swing with Scottie Pippen saying, "I may go as far to say LeBron James is probably the greatest player to ever play the game."

That was obviously before LeBron had won any rings and only had 2 MVPs.

4 rings, 6 MVPs later (2 MVP/4 FMVP) and he's certainly the GOAT now.

[And1AllDay]

It had already started by 2009-2010 with Oscar Robertson saying "LeBron is in class by himself" and Larry Bird saying "LeBron's as good as anybody that's played this game."

By the summer of 2011 it was already in full swing with Scottie Pippen saying, "I may go as far to say LeBron James is probably the greatest player to ever play the game."

That was obviously before LeBron had won any rings and only had 2 MVPs.

4 rings, 6 MVPs later (2 MVP/4 FMVP) and he's certainly the GOAT now.

bingo

[2much_knowledge]

Started the day Espn figured out theres alot of ignorant fools who drink the kool aid and fall for miscellaneous stats and records.

[csh19792001]

4 rings, 6 MVPs later (2 MVP/4 FMVP) and he's certainly the GOAT now.

Jordan 6 world championships, "11 MVP's later" (5 MVP/6 FMVP) and he played before they changed many of the rules and more importantly enforcement of said rules.... to make things easier for offensively oriented players and shooters. E.g., got rid of the hand check (de facto, it was on the books further back but never enforced), illegal defense, 3 second defense rule, installed double breakaway rims (2009-2010) made it drastically easier to shoot from long range.

[TheGoatest]

The possibility of him eventually becoming GOAT? Around February, 2002. It all started with this:

https://theundefeated.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/si_cover_lebron-e1487176174981.jpg

Back then, I was a LeBron hater. I couldn't stand the attention he was getting and thought that the talk of how teams should tank their entire 2002-03 season as early as halfway through the 2001-02 season just so they could get the #1 pick for the 2003-04 season in order to get some high school kid was beyond ridiculous. I thought that he would be just another Darius Miles/Jonathan Bender. But unlike irrational haters, I am rational and not immune to scientific fact. I admitted I was wrong about LeBron very early.

Him actually delivering on the hype and actually becoming GOAT? In June 2016, when this happened against a 73-9 team:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/83/53/2e/83532e44afc6d70d8527e5735cd967dd.jpg

[light]

Jordan 6 world championships, "11 MVP's later" (5 MVP/6 FMVP) and he played before they changed many of the rules and more importantly enforcement of said rules.... to make things easier for offensively oriented players and shooters. E.g., got rid of the hand check (de facto, it was on the books further back but never enforced), illegal defense, 3 second defense rule, installed double breakaway rims (2009-2010) made it drastically easier to shoot from long range.

Yeah but the problem is Jordan already had all of those rings and awards and LeBron had nothing and that didn't matter.

Jordan's rings didn't matter.

Jordan actually received the same treatment; MJ was also being touted as the GOAT when he was ringless.

Magic? Kareem? Russell? Their rings didn't matter either.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Jordan-GOAT-1988-600.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Jordan-GOAT-1989-600.png

The reality is that with players like MJ and LBJ it has never been about rings or awards - people could tell that they were the new GOAT long before they won anything.

[Axe]

Yeah but the problem is Jordan already had all of those rings and awards and LeBron had nothing and that didn't matter.

Jordan's rings didn't matter.

Jordan actually received the same treatment; MJ was also being touted as the GOAT when he was ringless.

Magic? Kareem? Russell? Their rings didn't matter either.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Jordan-GOAT-1988-600.png

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Jordan-GOAT-1989-600.png

The reality is that with players like MJ and LBJ it has never been about rings or awards - people could tell that they were the new GOAT long before they won anything.
So who's going to be the next proclaimed goat after these two?

[TheGoatest]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Jordan-GOAT-1988-600.png


I can't lie, 3ball used to have a nice head of hair back in 1988. And that moustache is just exquisite. What a handsome stud!

[light]

So who's going to be the next proclaimed goat after these two?

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/nbafamily/images/7/75/Bronnyrjames.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20191016001427

[csh19792001]

The reality is that with players like MJ and LBJ it has never been about rings or awards - people could tell that they were the new GOAT long before they won anything.

I agree. I was parroting what another poster used as what they felt were "mic drop criteria" for proving James as the greatest that ever lived. I don't agree with the criteria, necessarily. If there IS GOAT, IMHO, it's most likely Wilt, and not either Michael Jordan or Lebron James.

In any case, a very strong counter case could be made that James is more dominant over his era than Jordan was over his, because Jordan played through THREE waves of major expansion, severely diluting the NBA from 1988-1995. There has been zero expansion through James' entire NBA career.

[TheGoatest]

In any case, a very strong counter case could be made that James is more dominant over his era than Jordan was over his, because Jordan played through THREE waves of major expansion, severely diluting the NBA from 1988-1995. There has been zero expansion through James' entire NBA career.

Not only that, but there were significantly fewer international players playing during the 1990s, making the talent pool in the NBA even worse. Imagine removing a good portion of these players away from the league since 2000:

Dirk
Giannis
Luka
Jokic
Embiid
Pau
Marc
Manu
Parker
Gobert
Siakam

Plus countless other post-2000 international players who were really good. Imagine removing them from the league and replacing them with college players who otherwise weren't good enough to make the league under normal circumstances.

[Doranku]

A few months ago.

[8Ball]

2009 for me I was convinced he was the GOAT.

[Kiddlovesnets]

So Butler & Giannis go h2h in last years playoffs, with Giannis coming off winning MVP/DPOY and having the best record in the league. Butler outplays Giannis and his team beats his decisively, they make the Finals where Butler even outplays LeBron in some of the games, he has a statistically phenomenal Finals, but he's no longer in GOAT contention and Giannis is.

I want you to admit this is what you believe :lol

Butler and Giannis aint even top 20 player of all time, the standard is different for such players. If you agree that Lebron is barely top 25-50 player on the all time list, then I will agree that every runner-up is a plus for Lebron's legacy. If one day Butler somehow makes it to top 5 all time, then yes the 2020 runner-up is a negative to his legacy too, except we all know this will never happen.

[2much_knowledge]

2009 for me I was convinced he was the GOAT.

So getting his ass owned by Pierce and ruining the Kobe - lebron finals cause he couldn't cope with the Magic is what convinced you? Lol. Then he quit on his team, compliments of Boston to then getting outscored by Jason fkn terry hahahah. What a shitty 4 year stretch

[Airupthere]

So getting his ass owned by Pierce and ruining the Kobe - lebron finals cause he couldn't cope with the Magic is what convinced you? Lol. Then he quit on his team, compliments of Boston to then getting outscored by Jason fkn terry hahahah. What a shitty 4 year stretch

:lebronamazed:

[hateraid]

LeBron came into the discussion when Jordan Stans came up with 6 for 6. Once LeBron started threatening the legacy.

[ralph_i_el]

Never, we can’t remember what hasn’t and will not ever happen. Lebron was already disqualified from GOAT conversation since losing to Spurs in 2007. The 100% finals record is a necessary condition for GOAT, any loss in a finals series will mathematically eliminate a player from the discussion.

/thread

How can the GOAT lose in the 1st round of the playoffs? :facepalm

[2much_knowledge]

How can the GOAT lose in the 1st round of the playoffs? :facepalm

Losing to boston in any round is the same sh*t as losing in the finals. Same team

[clipps]

He somehow joined the GOAT conversation after the Choke Bros prolapsed in 2016.

[hateraid]

Never, we can’t remember what hasn’t and will not ever happen. Lebron was already disqualified from GOAT conversation since losing to Spurs in 2007. The 100% finals record is a necessary condition for GOAT, any loss in a finals series will mathematically eliminate a player from the discussion.

/thread

With that premise Brady eliminates himself from GOAT status losing to Eli

/Thread

[TheGoatest]

How can the GOAT lose in the 1st round of the playoffs? :facepalm

He lost in the 1st round. Then lost in the 1st round again to prove it was no fluke. Then just in case you missed the first two 1st round exits he lost in the 1st round again. Then Scottie Pippen entered the league.

[3ball]

He lost in the 1st round. Then lost in the 1st round again to prove it was no fluke. Then just in case you missed the first two 1st round exits he lost in the 1st round again. Then Scottie Pippen entered the league.


Lebron missed the playoffs

Then he missed the playoffs again, this time with the East all-star center to prove it wasn't a fluke

Then he got a 22/6/5 first-team defender and the future COY.. Still couldn't win shit and needed to form super-teams

[Hey Yo]

Lebron missed the playoffs

Then he missed the playoffs again, this time with the East all-star center to prove it wasn't a fluke

Then he got a 22/6/5 first-team defender and the future COY.. Still couldn't win shit and needed to form super-teams
Who ended up playing 2gms (44mins total) in the Finals and avg. 1-2-1 on 10% shooting.

LOL @ trying to hype up Hughes' 1-2-1

[3ball]

Who ended up playing 2gms (44mins total) in the Finals and avg. 1-2-1 on 10% shooting.

LOL @ trying to hype up Hughes' 1-2-1


Lebron averaged 22 on 35% in those Finals - that's the worst performance ever for a #1 option in the Finals - so the loss is his fault.. 30 on 50% would've destroyed the Spurs like Kobe did in 08'

And Larry Hughes was a 22/6/5 player with 1st team defense

So lebron was gifted a sidekick with prime pippen performance, while Jordan had to build such a teammate

[Hey Yo]

Lebron averaged 22 on 35% in those Finals - that's the worst performance ever for a #1 option in the Finals - so the loss is his fault.. 30 on 50% would've destroyed the Spurs like Kobe did in 08'

And Larry Hughes was a 22/6/5 player with 1st team defense

So lebron was gifted a sidekick with prime pippen performance, while Jordan had to build such a teammate
What Hughes did the year prior on a different team means nothing. The facts are he played 2gms in the 2007 Finals and avg. 1ppg.

So you're praising MJ for building a player who you think sucks? How is that an accomplishment in your bipolar eyes? Why didn't he build more shitty players like Pippen?

[Axe]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/nbafamily/images/7/75/Bronnyrjames.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20191016001427
Baby kong huh. I see.

[bullettooth]

How can the GOAT lose in the 1st round of the playoffs? :facepalm

How can the GOAT MISS the playoffs entirely... THREE TIMES?

[dawsey6]

Since he came into the national spotlight there was talk about his trajectory for GOAT. I remember back in '05 when he was tearing through the league and putting up 27-7-7 and I remember someone saying "All I'm saying is... he's better than Jordan was at 20."

They ALWAYS had this GOAT conversation. His whole career.

[DoctorP]

Anyone remember?

His longevity after this last title is putting him in a tier with Jordan, Russell and Kareem

[2much_knowledge]

His longevity after this last title is putting him in a tier with Jordan, Russell and Kareem

Finally a rational realistic answer. Longevity. And well put, in the tier. I could agree with that.

[TheCorporation]

He lost in the 1st round. Then lost in the 1st round again to prove it was no fluke. Then just in case you missed the first two 1st round exits he lost in the 1st round again. Then Scottie Pippen entered the league.

:roll::roll:

Yep!

[2much_knowledge]

:roll::roll:

Yep!

Rookie bran surely would have beaten the Celtics by himself in 86 and 87 im sure lol. Ohh i almost forgot he didn't even make the playoffs. Btw, your avatar is hilarious

[TheGoatest]

How can the GOAT MISS the playoffs entirely... THREE TIMES?

Easily: By not playing in an era where getting 40, 38 and 30 wins secures you a playoff spot, and where getting 42 wins doesn't.

[TheCorporation]

Rookie bran surely would have beaten the Celtics by himself in 86 and 87 im sure lol. Ohh i almost forgot he didn't even make the playoffs. Btw, your avatar is hilarious

Imagine losing three times in the first round

#8thSeedPunishment

[TheGoatest]

Rookie bran surely would have beaten the Celtics by himself in 86 and 87 im sure lol. Ohh i almost forgot he didn't even make the playoffs. Btw, your avatar is hilarious

22 year-old LeBron (led team to NBA finals) would most definitely get a better record than the 0 all-star 1987 Indiana Pacers and Milwaukee Bucks in order to avoid the Celtics in the first round, if he played with a 14.5/13.1/3.6 averaging Charles Oakley. Something which a 24 year-old Michael Jordan failed to do.

[2much_knowledge]

22 year-old LeBron (led team to NBA finals) would most definitely get a better record than the 0 all-star 1987 Indiana Pacers and Milwaukee Bucks in order to avoid the Celtics in the first round, if he played with a 14.5/13.1/3.6 averaging Charles Oakley. Something which a 24 year-old Michael Jordan failed to do.

Almost true. But you forgot one key thing. The limited minutes Chicago imposed on MJ to try to be a lottery team after missing almost 70 games. I believe it was 12 minutes per half or something like that. The first time MJ had a chance to play the whole game, 47 pts, next game 63

[Kiddlovesnets]

How can the GOAT lose in the 1st round of the playoffs? :facepalm

MJ’s lost in the first round 3 times, while Lebron missed playoffs 3 times in his career. MJ has both a higher ceiling(6/6 > 4/10) and higher floor(3 first round exits > 3 missed playoffs), thus is not even a contest. MJ is better than Lebron from head to toe.

[DoctorP]

Finally a rational realistic answer. Longevity. And well put, in the tier. I could agree with that.


Thanks, I think it's a safe assesment that leaves a lot of nonsense about eras and emotional baggage out of the equation.

[Axe]

MJ’s lost in the first round 3 times, while Lebron missed playoffs 3 times in his career. MJ has both a higher ceiling(6/6 > 4/10) and higher floor(3 first round exits > 3 missed playoffs), thus is not even a contest. MJ is better than Lebron from head to toe.
He doesn't have a winning record without pip tho :confusedshrug:

[sdot_thadon]

How can the GOAT MISS the playoffs entirely... THREE TIMES?

I know, I'd imagine the goat wouldn't ever miss the playoffs. Especially not twice....

[Kiddlovesnets]

He doesn't have a winning record without pip tho :confusedshrug:

Lebron doesn’t have winning record against any top 30 players of all time that he faced in the finals. 1-2 against TD, 0-1 against Dirk, 1-2 against KD, 1-3 against Curry, 1-1 against Kawhi(5-7 for individual games).

[3ball]

What Hughes did the year prior on a different team means nothing. The facts are he played 2gms in the 2007 Finals and avg. 1ppg.

So you're praising MJ for building a player who you think sucks? How is that an accomplishment in your bipolar eyes? Why didn't he build more shitty players like Pippen?


Combo guards like Hughes need to handle the rock a little bit, so they need to play alongside great shooters that can play off-ball like Arenas or Jordan

So lebron's ball-dominance killed Hughes just like it did Ingram, IT, and Rose

Btw, 3 of the Finals games were 1-possession affairs where the Cavs lost 4th quarter leads.. ultimately, the 07' Cavs had a great defense and a pippen-like sidekick, but needed a volume scorer that could carry the load at #1 option (not a passer)

[sdot_thadon]

Combo guards like Hughes need to handle the rock a little bit, so they need to play alongside great shooters that can play off-ball like Arenas or Jordan

So lebron's ball-dominance killed Hughes just like it did Ingram, IT, and Rose

Btw, 3 of the Finals games were 1-possession affairs where the Cavs lost 4th quarter leads.. ultimately, the 07' Cavs had a great defense and a pippen-like sidekick, but needed a volume scorer that could carry the load at #1 option (not a passer)
BTW you probably missed the point where Hughes was hobbled in that playoff run, likely because you didn't watch the series.

[StrongLurk]

High School, seriously.

[3ball]

BTW you probably missed the point where Hughes was hobbled in that playoff run, likely because you didn't watch the series.


Even if Hughes played his normal 14 ppg on bad efficiency (the numbers he got alongside lebron), the Cavs still lose because lebron was wetting the bed worse than any #1 option ever

When pippen averaged 15 points on bad efficiency, the Bulls couldn't win if Jordan averaged 22 ppg

[SouBeachTalents]

Btw, 3 of the Finals games were 1-possession affairs where the Cavs lost 4th quarter leads.. ultimately, the 07' Cavs had a great defense and a pippen-like sidekick, but needed a volume scorer that could carry the load at #1 option (not a passer)
The Cavs were never within 8 points in the 4th in either of the first 2 games, and never had the lead in the 4th in Game 3. They had a 4th quarter lead for literally 2.5 minutes the entire series

[3ball]

The Cavs were never within 8 points in the 4th in either of the first 2 games, and never had the lead in the 4th in Game 3. They had a 4th quarter lead for literally 2.5 minutes the entire series


They weren't close because lebron played horrible


Game 3

Cavs were up with 2 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter and within a possession all 4th quarter


game 4

Cavs were up with 2 minutes left



Unfortunately, lebron played worse than any #1 option ever has

[SouBeachTalents]

Game 3

Cavs were up with 2 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter and within a possession all 4th quarter


game 4

Cavs were up with 2 minutes left



Unfortunately, lebron played worse than any #1 option ever has
The Cavs literally never had the lead the entire 2nd half of Game 3, and were down by 8 with 2 minutes to go in Game 4

You just double down on your lying huh :lol

[3ball]

The Cavs literally never had the lead the entire 2nd half of Game 3, and were down by 6 with 2 minutes to go in Game 4

You just double down on your lying huh :lol


Game 3

Cavs were up with 2 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter and within a possession all 4th quarter


game 4

Cavs were up with 2 minutes left


Regardless, they weren't close because lebron played horribly..

They lost because lebron played horribly

[SouBeachTalents]

Game 3

Cavs were up with 2 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter and within a possession all 4th quarter


game 4

Cavs were up with 2 minutes left
Uh oh, 3bot malfunctioned

[3ball]

Uh oh, 3bot malfunctioned


Lebron should've won that series but he played horribly

And my stats are correct

Carry on.. you're floundering

[RRR3]

Uh oh, 3bot malfunctioned
:roll:

[3ball]

:roll:


As usual.. 3ball wins

You guys are jokes that stan a loser and beta cheating bitch

So you can't beat me even when I'm wrong

[8Ball]

So getting his ass owned by Pierce and ruining the Kobe - lebron finals cause he couldn't cope with the Magic is what convinced you? Lol. Then he quit on his team, compliments of Boston to then getting outscored by Jason fkn terry hahahah. What a shitty 4 year stretch

Everything LeBron did in 2009 >>>>> Whatever Jordan did without Pippen.

Greatest performance ever by a player that didn't win the championship, regular season + playoffs.

[TheCorporation]

The Cavs were never within 8 points in the 4th in either of the first 2 games, and never had the lead in the 4th in Game 3. They had a 4th quarter lead for literally 2.5 minutes the entire series

:lol 3ball exposed as a liar again. What's new

[TheCorporation]

Uh oh, 3bot malfunctioned


:roll:


What a dirty little liar :roll:

Pa • the • tic

[TheCorporation]

Hey Kiddlovesnets, if you can't win in the 1st round you don't deserve Goat talk. Sorry.

[3ball]

.
MJ nearly won title with 90' Pippen, whereas Lebron was destroyed with guys > 90' Pippen


Lost as favorite to 1-star team with:

09' Mo Will...'.... 17.2 PER.. 0.165 WS/48.. 2.3 BPM.. 3.1 VORP
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP


Swept 4-0 to Spurs with:

05' L Hughes.... 21.6 PER.. 0.157 WS/48.. 4.3 BPM.. 3.7 VORP.. 1st team all-def
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP


Lottery with:

05' Zydrunas.... 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. -0.2 BPM.. 1.2 VORP
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48... 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP


Lottery with:

20' Ingram..'..... 18.8 PER.. 0.115 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 2.2 VORP
90' Pippen.....'.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM . 3.0 VORP


^^^ 20' Ingram was used instead of 19' Ingram because Lebron's presence clearly caused a 1-year crater of Ingram's PER, BPM, VORP, and WS/48 in 2019.

Similarly, Lebron cratered Hughes in 06', so Hughes 05' stats were used (his true capability)


CONCLUSION: title




you don't deserve Goat talk. Sorry.





09' Cavs'..... #3 defense... 18 on 38% from Mo... lost to #4 SRS Magic (2 all-stars)
89' Bulls... #11 defense... 15 on 40% from Pip... defeat #1 SRS Cavs' (3 all-stars)


The 89' Cavs also had Ron Harper (20/5/5)

Those Cavs were a better team than lebron ever beat in the East, and MJ beat them with shit from Pippen and a shit team defense..

Ultimately, Lebron shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th quarter against Orlando and lost 3 fourth quarter leads - this included getting destroyed by Dwight in the critical Game 4 OT... Clutch and contested jumpshooting MATTERS.. it decides series

[light]

Anyone remember?

It was already in full swing by 2009.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Bron-Greatest-2009.png

[3ball]

It was already in full swing by 2009.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Bron-Greatest-2009.png


Again, no argument is made

Just a cult that believes bullshit with no proof

He loses to Dwight and that's goat, according to the cult

[2much_knowledge]

Everything LeBron did in 2009 >>>>> Whatever Jordan did without Pippen.

Greatest performance ever by a player that didn't win the championship, regular season + playoffs.

Lol Jordan 1988 absolutely destroys everything lebron has done any year of his live and Pippen didn't have to do shit with it cause he was nobody until 1990

*Scoring champ
*Dpoy
*Mvp
* allstat mvp
* steals leader
* dunk champ

Ill wait for a better lebron season. Shoot

Lb 28pts - 7 ast-7 reb- 1.7 stl 1.1 blk
MJ 35 pts - 5 ast - 5reb 3.2stl 1.6 blk

[3ball]

pippen was nobody until 1990





MJ nearly won title with 90' Pippen, whereas Lebron was destroyed with guys > 90' Pippen


Lost as favorite to 1-star team with:

09' Mo Will...'.... 17.2 PER.. 0.165 WS/48.. 2.3 BPM.. 3.1 VORP
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP






pippen was nobody until 1990





09' Cavs'..... #3 defense... 18 on 38% from Mo... lost to #4 SRS Magic (2 all-stars)
89' Bulls... #11 defense... 15 on 40% from Pip... defeat #1 SRS Cavs' (3 all-stars)


The 89' Cavs also had Ron Harper (20/5/5)

Those Cavs were a better team than lebron ever beat in the East, and MJ beat them with shit from Pippen and a shit team defense..

Ultimately, Lebron shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th quarter against Orlando and lost 3 fourth quarter leads - this included getting destroyed by Dwight in the critical Game 4 OT... Clutch and contested jumpshooting MATTERS.. it decides series

[Spurs m8]

He didn't....

[8Ball]

Lol Jordan 1988 absolutely destroys everything lebron has done any year of his live and Pippen didn't have to do shit with it cause he was nobody until 1990

*Scoring champ
*Dpoy
*Mvp
* allstat mvp
* steals leader
* dunk champ

Ill wait for a better lebron season. Shoot

Lb 28pts - 7 ast-7 reb- 1.7 stl 1.1 blk
MJ 35 pts - 5 ast - 5reb 3.2stl 1.6 blk

50 wins vs 66.

Jordan is a good stat padder. Jordan wins MVP with only 50 wins? Wtf is that.

Again, 2009 LeBron >>>>>>> anything Jordan did without Pippen.

[3ball]

50 wins vs 66.

Jordan is a good stat padder. Jordan wins MVP with only 50 wins? Wtf is that.

Again, 2009 LeBron >>>>>>> anything Jordan did without Pippen.





The Cavs won 45 games in 2008 and were nothing until Mo Williams made them a 66-win team and the league favorite in 2009:


09' Mo Will...'.... 17.2 PER.. 0.165 WS/48.. 2.3 BPM.. 3.1 VORP
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP
89' Pippen........ 14.9 PER.. 0.083 WS/48.. 0.4 BPM.. 1.5 VORP
88' Pippen........ 12.9 PER.. 0.066 WS/48.. 0.0 BPM.. 0.6 VORP


09' Cavs'..... #3 defense... 18 on 38% from Mo... lost to #4 SRS Magic (2 all-stars)
89' Bulls... #11 defense... 15 on 40% from Pip... defeat #1 SRS Cavs' (3 all-stars)*

* plus Ron Harper (20/5/5)


The 89' Cavs were a better team than lebron ever beat in the East, and MJ beat them with shit from Pippen and a shit team defense..

Ultimately, Lebron shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th quarter against Orlando and lost 3 fourth quarter leads - this included getting destroyed by Dwight in the critical Game 4 OT... Accordingly, clutch and contested jumpshooting MATTERS.. it decides series and lebron sucks at it..

[8Ball]

The Cavs won 45 games in 2008 and were nothing until Mo Williams made them a 66-win team and the league favorite in 2009:


09' Mo Will...'.... 17.2 PER.. 0.165 WS/48.. 2.3 BPM.. 3.1 VORP
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP
89' Pippen........ 14.9 PER.. 0.083 WS/48.. 0.4 BPM.. 1.5 VORP
88' Pippen........ 12.9 PER.. 0.066 WS/48.. 0.0 BPM.. 0.6 VORP


09' Cavs'..... #3 defense... 18 on 38% from Mo... lost to #4 SRS Magic (2 all-stars)
89' Bulls... #11 defense... 15 on 40% from Pip... defeat #1 SRS Cavs' (3 all-stars)*

* plus Ron Harper (20/5/5)


The 89' Cavs were a better team than lebron ever beat in the East, and MJ beat them with shit from Pippen and a shit team defense..

Ultimately, Lebron shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th quarter against Orlando and lost 3 fourth quarter leads - this included getting destroyed by Dwight in the critical Game 4 OT... Accordingly, clutch and contested jumpshooting MATTERS.. it decides series and lebron sucks at it..

88 Bulls = 50 wins with Scottie Pippen
87 Bulls = 40 wins without Scottie Pippen

45 wins > 40 wins.
2009 Cavs = 66 wins.

Jordan was 25 years in in 88. LeBron was 25 years old in 2009.

LeBron > Jordan.

[8Ball]

50 wins vs 66.

Jordan is a good stat padder. Jordan wins MVP with only 50 wins? Wtf is that.

Again, 2009 LeBron >>>>>>> anything Jordan did without Pippen.

Is there no one else?

Hello?

[3ball]

88 Bulls = 50 wins with Scottie Pippen
87 Bulls = 40 wins without Scottie Pippen

Jordan was 25 years in in 88. LeBron was 25 years old in 2009.

2009 Cavs = 66 wins.

LeBron > Jordan.


As my post showed, 09' Lebron had much better teammates than 88-90' Jordan, and better team defense

Mo led the 09' Cavs to 21 more wins and they had the #3 defense

Better teammates explains how lebron won 66 with only 28/8/7 stats, while Jordan's 33/8/8 won 47... Or 35/6/6 won 50

[8Ball]

Jordan without Pippen = 40 win team.

LeBron + Mo Williams in 2009 = 66 wins.
Jordan + Scottie Pippen in 1988 = 50 wins

Both LeBron and Jordan 25 years old respectively in those years.

Scottie Pippen 8x all nba player.
Mo Williams 0x all nba player.


IS THERE NO ONE ELSE?

[3ball]

.
The Cavs won 45 games in 2008 and were nothing until Mo Williams made them a 66-win team and the league favorite in 2009:


09' Mo Will...'.... 17.2 PER.. 0.165 WS/48.. 2.3 BPM.. 3.1 VORP
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP
89' Pippen........ 14.9 PER.. 0.083 WS/48.. 0.4 BPM.. 1.5 VORP
88' Pippen........ 12.9 PER.. 0.066 WS/48.. 0.0 BPM.. 0.6 VORP


09' Cavs'..... #3 defense... 18 on 38% from Mo... lost to #4 SRS Magic (2 all-stars)
89' Bulls... #11 defense... 15 on 40% from Pip... defeat #1 SRS Cavs' (3 all-stars)*

* plus Ron Harper (20/5/5)


The 89' Cavs were a better team than lebron ever beat in the East, and MJ beat them with shit from Pippen and a shit team defense..

Ultimately, Lebron shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th quarter against Orlando and lost 3 fourth quarter leads - this included getting destroyed by Dwight in the critical Game 4 OT... Accordingly, clutch and contested jumpshooting MATTERS.. it decides series and lebron sucks at it..




Jordan without Pippen = 40 win team.

LeBron + Mo Williams in 2009 = 66 wins.
Jordan + Scottie Pippen in 1988 = 50 wins

Both LeBron and Jordan 25 years old respectively in those years.

Scottie Pippen 8x all nba player.
Mo Williams 0x all nba player.


IS THERE NO ONE ELSE?


As the stats show above, 09' Lebron had much better teammates than 88-90' Jordan, and better team defense

Better teammates explains how lebron's 28/8/7 won 66, while Jordan's 33/8/8 won 47... Or 35/6/6 won 50

Ultimately, Mo led the 09' Cavs to 21 more wins with better stats than 90' Pippen, and those Cavs had the #3 defense (90' bulls had #19 defense)

[Kiddlovesnets]

Theres one and only one in GOAT conversation, Michael Jordan. Until another player who will win at least 5 titles, 5 FMVPs and maintain a 100% finals record appear in the league, he will remain as the only one.

/thread

[8Ball]

Theres one and only one in GOAT conversation, Michael Jordan. Until another player who will win at least 5 titles, 5 FMVPs and maintain a 100% finals record appear in the league, he will remain as the only one.

/thread

There are millions of conversations about the GOAT happening every day.

Jordan being the undisputed GOAT was a brief moment in history. That is all.

[8Ball]

.
The Cavs won 45 games in 2008 and were nothing until Mo Williams made them a 66-win team and the league favorite in 2009:


09' Mo Will...'.... 17.2 PER.. 0.165 WS/48.. 2.3 BPM.. 3.1 VORP
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP
89' Pippen........ 14.9 PER.. 0.083 WS/48.. 0.4 BPM.. 1.5 VORP
88' Pippen........ 12.9 PER.. 0.066 WS/48.. 0.0 BPM.. 0.6 VORP


09' Cavs'..... #3 defense... 18 on 38% from Mo... lost to #4 SRS Magic (2 all-stars)
89' Bulls... #11 defense... 15 on 40% from Pip... defeat #1 SRS Cavs' (3 all-stars)*

* plus Ron Harper (20/5/5)


The 89' Cavs were a better team than lebron ever beat in the East, and MJ beat them with shit from Pippen and a shit team defense..

Ultimately, Lebron shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th quarter against Orlando and lost 3 fourth quarter leads - this included getting destroyed by Dwight in the critical Game 4 OT... Accordingly, clutch and contested jumpshooting MATTERS.. it decides series and lebron sucks at it..






As the stats show above, 09' Lebron had much better teammates than 88-90' Jordan, and better team defense

Better teammates explains how lebron's 28/8/7 won 66, while Jordan's 33/8/8 won 47... Or 35/6/6 won 50

Ultimately, Mo led the 09' Cavs to 21 more wins with better stats than 90' Pippen, and those Cavs had the #3 defense (90' bulls had #19 defense)

87 Bulls won 40 games without Scottie Pippen. Jordan was nothing before Pippen showed up

Is there no one else?

[3ball]

87 Bulls won 40 games without Scottie Pippen. Jordan was nothing before Pippen showed up

Is there no one else?


Jordan's improvement to the league MVP and DPOY in 1988 (the goat season) had more impact on the team improvement than rookie pippen's 7 points off the bench

[2much_knowledge]

50 wins vs 66.

Jordan is a good stat padder. Jordan wins MVP with only 50 wins? Wtf is that.

Again, 2009 LeBron >>>>>>> anything Jordan did without Pippen.

You repeat this nonsense again and again until you believe it yourself? We can remove the names of the players and make a poll and we all now who had the best season.

[Kiddlovesnets]

There are millions of conversations about the GOAT happening every day.

Jordan being the undisputed GOAT was a brief moment in history. That is all.

MJ is still the undisputed GOAT and will continue to be in foreseeable future.

[8Ball]

MJ is still the undisputed GOAT and will continue to be in foreseeable future.

No he isn't.

There's way too many arguments happening and people that don't believe he is the GOAT.

[2much_knowledge]

MJ is still the undisputed GOAT and will continue to be in foreseeable future.

Yup, you can almost combine Durant's career with lebron's and they still come short of what MJ did while retiring twice. Is absurd really

Btw, lets wish the goat a happy birthday lol

[TheGoatest]

87 Bulls won 40 games without Scottie Pippen. Jordan was nothing before Pippen showed up

Is there no one else?

21 year-old Tracy McGrady was a perennial first round dropout, much like pre-Pippen Jordan. However, it is worth noting that the 21 year-old McGrady got more wins in each of his first 3 seasons with the Magic than a 21 year-old Jordan got in any of his first 3 seasons with the Bulls. Yet Jordan stans try to make it look as if it is an insult to say that pre-Pippen Jordan was like Tracy McGrady. It's an insult, all right. To Tracy McGrady, that is.

[2much_knowledge]

21 year-old Tracy McGrady was a perennial first round dropout, much like pre-Pippen Jordan. However, it is worth noting that the 21 year-old McGrady got more wins in each of his first 3 seasons with the Magic than a 21 year-old Jordan got in any of his first 3 seasons with the Bulls. Yet Jordan stans try to make it look as if it is an insult to say that pre-Pippen Jordan was like Tracy McGrady. It's an insult, all right. To Tracy McGrady, that is.

Lmao. Jordan 1988 alone did more than tracy's entire resume. Good try tho

[TheGoatest]

Lmao. Jordan 1988 alone did more than tracy's entire resume. Good try tho

Scottie Pippen entered the league by 1988.

[Kiddlovesnets]

No he isn't.

There's way too many arguments happening and people that don't believe he is the GOAT.

Actually even the Media has MJ as undisputed GOAT, only Lebronstans earnestly believe their idol has a slim chance, its not even close. Lebron was already disqualified from GOAT conversation since 2007, its just that simple.

[3ball]

21 year-old Tracy McGrady was a perennial first round dropout, much like pre-Pippen Jordan. However, it is worth noting that the 21 year-old McGrady got more wins in each of his first 3 seasons with the Magic than a 21 year-old Jordan got in any of his first 3 seasons with the Bulls. Yet Jordan stans try to make it look as if it is an insult to say that pre-Pippen Jordan was like Tracy McGrady. It's an insult, all right. To Tracy McGrady, that is.


85-87' Jordan had lottery casts like Lebron in 04', 05', and 19'

The difference is that the smaller league in the 80's allowed everyone in the playoffs (16 of 23 teams).. So Jordan's lottery teams were forced into the playoffs to face dynasty 1 seeds, while Lebron's lottery teams avoided the playoffs and a matchup against the 04' Pistons or KD's Warriors

So Jordan was forced to carry his worst teams in the playoffs, while lebron's worst teams avoided the playoffs - Lebron only made the playoffs with developed, high seeds

[8Ball]

Yup, you can almost combine Durant's career with lebron's and they still come short of what MJ did while retiring twice. Is absurd really

Btw, lets wish the goat a happy birthday lol

11 all-nba teams vs combined 25 for LeBron and Durant.

Jordan stans are retarded. :roll:

[3ball]

11 all-nba teams vs combined 25 for LeBron and Durant.

Jordan stans are retarded. :roll:


Rings for KD and Lebron = 6

Rings for Jordan = 6


Regular season and FMVP for KD/Lebron = 11

Regular season and FMVP for Jordan = 11


Scoring titles for KD and Lebron = 5

Scoring titles for Jordan = 10

[8Ball]

Rings are team awards.

Robert Horry has 7.

7 > 6.

If you want to compare team awards have it it. Compare your Jordan bulls to 60s Celtics.


I win every single argument on this forum. I don't need to use more than 2 brain cells to dumpster a Jordan argument here. Its getting boring.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Rings are team awards.

Robert Horry has 7.

7 > 6.

If you want to compare team awards have it it. Compare your Jordan bulls to 60s Celtics.


I win every single argument on this forum. I don't need to use more than 2 brain cells to dumpster a Jordan argument here. Its getting boring.

Any loss in the NBA Finals is enough to disqualify a player from GOAT conversation. Sounds harsh? But MJ the reigning GOAT managed to maintain a 100% winning percentage in the finals while completing two 3-peats with 6 FMVPs. In order to surpass MJ, the following conditions must be met:

1. 6 rings
2. 6 FMVPS
3. 5 MVPs
4. 100% record in the finals
5. at least two 3-peats or one 4+-peat

And the unfortunate truth is that for all the 5 necessary conditions to become GOAT, Lebron has none.

[Hey Yo]

Yup, you can almost combine Durant's career with lebron's and they still come short of what MJ did while retiring twice. Is absurd really

Btw, lets wish the goat a happy birthday lol
It's in December.

[Kiddlovesnets]

It's in December.

Nah it is today, you can google it.
https://pasteboard.co/JONoWae.png

[3ball]

Rings are team awards.

Robert Horry has 7.

7 > 6.

If you want to compare team awards have it it. Compare your Jordan bulls to 60s Celtics.


I win every single argument on this forum. I don't need to use more than 2 brain cells to dumpster a Jordan argument here. Its getting boring.


Jordan has the most rings as the best player in the modern era (since the 3-point line or ABA merger)

Infact, before Kareem joined Lebron last year, Jordan had twice as many rings as the best player than anyone in modern era history

[Hey Yo]

Any loss in the NBA Finals is enough to disqualify a player from GOAT conversation. Sounds harsh? But MJ the reigning GOAT managed to maintain a 100% winning percentage in the finals while completing two 3-peats with 6 FMVPs. In order to surpass MJ, the following conditions must be met:

1. 6 rings
2. 6 FMVPS
3. 5 MVPs
4. 100% record in the finals
5. at least two 3-peats or one 4+-peat

And the unfortunate truth is that for all the 5 necessary conditions to become GOAT, Lebron has none.
The truth is MJ has 3 real rings and 3 'I needed to rest' rings.

[Hey Yo]

Jordan has the most rings as the best player in the modern era (since the 3-point line or ABA merger)
The most by any player who needed 2yrs off. That record will never be broken



4 rings without load management >>>>>>>>>>> 6 rings that were achieved due to load management.

[Airupthere]

People underestimate the fortitude one must have to do a 3pt. What more after retirement to have another 3pt.

It needed shaq, kobe and squad to have a 3pt.

Some people cant do it and resort to moving teams and calling people up to form superteams, and still cant do it.

[3ball]

The truth is MJ has 3 real rings and 3 'I needed to rest' rings.


Rings with 2nd options > Rings with 1b's

Everyone in history needed an equal-scoring teammate (1b) to win at least half their rings.. Only Jordan won a bunch of rings with a true 2nd option that averaged far less in the playoffs and Finals.

This matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" defensive coverage for his entire career, which gives maximum integrity to his stats/rings..

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s


Ultimately, everyone in history that won more than 2 Finals needed a teammate to win FMVP or average 25 ppg for at least 1 of the Finals... But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only Jordan could win more than 2 with Pippen

[2much_knowledge]

People underestimate the fortitude one must have to do a 3pt. What more after retirement to have another 3pt.

It needed shaq, kobe and squad to have a 3pt.

Some people cant do it and resort to moving teams and calling people up to form superteams, and still cant do it.

People act like its no big deal. And it has not happened in 19 years. Jordan haters are something else i tell ya

[Vino24]

No Pip no chip

[Airupthere]

No Pip no chip

With pip, 6/6 with two 3peats.

Lebron with many pips, 2/4 with MIA superteam, 1/4 with kyrie and love

[8Ball]

With pip, 6/6 with two 3peats.

Lebron with many pips, 2/4 with MIA superteam, 1/4 with kyrie and love

Without Pippen Jordan can barely win 40 games.

[Airupthere]

Without Pippen Jordan can barely win 40 games.

you mean with the drug-laden dysfunctional organization he arrived in his first three years, not to mention the leg injury he had in his second year? the league that lebron came into was tons better. lebron was supposed to just plug and play in the league and still can't manage to achieve at least one 3peat with superteams. Lebron himself tried to predict it. Did you forget when he projected "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5..." in MIA? He knew the odds on his side!!! he understood what he DID, and yet 2/4? dafuq? :oldlol:

[LAmbruh]

No Pip no chip
zipped up and bodybagged :applause:

[3ball]

With pip, 6/6 with two 3peats.

Lebron with many pips, 2/4 with MIA superteam, 1/4 with kyrie and love


Haha nice

[SouBeachTalents]

Haha nice
Lol, he does the same blatantly false shit you do saying he was 1/4 with Kyrie and Love when they both missed the '15 Finals and Kyrie wasn't on the team in 2018

[Gudo]

For me, Lebron missed the boat. Still a solid #2 all time.

[3ball]

Lol, he does the same blatantly false shit you do saying he was 1/4 with Kyrie and Love when they both missed the '15 Finals and Kyrie wasn't on the team in 2018


He still got blown away in 2017 when Nick Wright and others said the Cavs would win easily (probably assuming Kyrie would destroy Curry again).

Ultimately, everyone performed better against the KD Warriors then lebron.. Harden almost beat them with less help, and guys like AD took games off the Warriors while Lebron was beaten by record amount.

Btw, Lebron played exactly like Iverson offensively in the 2015 Finals, and Kukoc on defense.. but if he played like mj on both ends, then Curry would've lost again just like 16' and 19.. Curry has proven pretty beatable in the Finals

So lebron wasn't 1/4 with Kyrie/Love, but he still lost a couple times where he deserves blame.. And he's still 1/4 in that stint, aka he mostly loses everywhere he goes

[SouBeachTalents]

He still got blown away in 2017 when Nick Wright and others said the Cavs would win easily (probably assuming Kyrie would destroy Curry again).

Ultimately, everyone performed better against the KD Warriors then lebron.. Harden almost beat them with less help, and guys like AD took games off the Warriors while Lebron couldn't, and was beaten by record amount.

Btw, Lebron played exactly like Iverson offensively in the 2015 Finals, and Kukoc on defense.. but if he played like mj on both ends, then Curry would've lost again just like 16' and 19.. Curry has proven pretty beatable in the Finals

So lebron wasn't 1/4 with Kyrie/Love, but he still lost a couple times where he deserves blame.. And he's still 1/4 in that stint, aka he mostly loses everywhere he goes
Anyone who thought the Cavs would beat the Warriors "easily" in 2017 after squeaking out a 7 game series the year before without Durant is a fcking idiot :lol People should know by now those commentators on ESPN just say shit for ratings

LeBron scored 50 in Game 1 which should've been enough for a Cavs win in 2018, just for reference AD "only" scored 33 in the game that they won. And Harden did absolutely not have less help in 2018 than LeBron :oldlol:

And sure, LeBron went 1/4 over that timeframe, but Jordan is for sure not winning in his place in 2015 or ESP in 2018

[8Ball]

Without Pippen Jordan can barely win 40 games.

Is there no one else?

[3ball]

Anyone who thought the Cavs would beat the Warriors "easily" in 2017 after squeaking out a 7 game series the year before without Durant is a fcking idiot :lol People should know by now those commentators on ESPN just say shit for ratings

LeBron scored 50 in Game 1 which should've been enough to get the Cavs a win in 2018, just for reference AD scored "only" 33 in the game that they won. And Harden absolutely did not have less help than LeBron in 2018 :oldlol:

And sure, LeBron went 1/4 during that timeframe, but Jordan is for sure not winning in his place in 2015 or ESP 2018


18' Harden had less help than 17' Lebron, yet Harden nearly won, while Lebron nearly broke his own record for loss

And Jordan wins in 2015 - teams led by Curry aren't juggernauts in the playoffs, especially the Finals - they're regular season teams

Lebron simply lost because he wet the bed - he shot poorly at high volume and let a role player double his scoring average to win FMVP.

In 2018, Lebron had a historic Game 1, but choked at the end.. Lebron is 0-8 on game-winning or tying attempts in the Finals, whereas Jordan is 4-8 (same as his regular efficiency, aka zero choke factor).. What if Lebron was 4-8 and therefore had 4 additional wins in the Finals?.. That's worth an additional ring (4 wins)

[Vino24]

2014 when 3ball went full time on LeBron

[3ball]

2014 when 3ball went full time on LeBron


Well I was disappointed with his effort in 2014 - specifically:

17 shots per game against the fossil Spurs = record loss with big 3

35 shots per game against juggernaut Warriors = 4-2 close series with no help

if he took 35 shots against the Spurs, he would've controlled pace like he did against the Warriors and wins easily.. 40 ppg wins that series - that's what MJ needed in his 3-peat attempt to win

[TheGoatest]

https://i.imgur.com/paLR1Md.jpg

The "First they ignore you" phase for LeBron being GOAT was 2003 to 2007.
The "Then they laugh at you" phase was between 2007 and 2012.
The "Then they fight you" phase was between 2012 and 2016.
And LeBron finally winning the title of GOAT took place in June 2016. Everything he's done since has been overkill.

[Axe]

2014 when 3ball went full time on LeBron
That ghoulash joint tho..

[3ball]

That ghoulash joint tho..


I be there like errryday

And remember when lebron gave up on the 3-peat (17 shots per game), while Jordan went for it (33 shots per game) and averaged the 40 needed to 3-peat?

So one guy cowered in the face of greatness, and the other guy went for it and got it.. one guy is a fraud; the other is goat

[sdot_thadon]

2014 when 3ball went full time on LeBron

2014? You missed part of the show then.

[Vino24]

2014? You missed part of the show then.

This is full time LeBron dedication

[hateraid]

2014 when 3ball went full time on LeBron

This. Like my first post in this thread. LeBron entered the conversation when Jordan fans became threatened. If something wasn't a threat it wouldn't be brought up in conversation. And if the most delusional fan makes it his entire agenda that's when it becomes part of a discussion

[2much_knowledge]

This. Like my first post in this thread. LeBron entered the conversation when Jordan fans became threatened. If something wasn't a threat it wouldn't be brought up in conversation. And if the most delusional fan makes it his entire agenda that's when it becomes part of a discussion

Jordan fans or people outside of Ohio who was been watching Nba games or movies for over 30 years never felt threatened. We know better than to fall for trivial miscellaneous stats and records that Espn been to using to fool the casuals and youngins. Thats that

[TheGoatest]

If something wasn't a threat it wouldn't be brought up in conversation.

Exactly. You don't see them making hundreds of threads arguing how Terry Rozier is not as good as Michael Jordan.

[light]

Anyone remember?

Sports Illustrated asked the question as early as 2005.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/SI-2005.png

Ring count doesn't matter.

Both LeBron and Jordan were thrust into the GOAT conversation early in their careers.

The public can detect a GOAT from light years away.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Ring-Count-Doesnt-Matter.png

The public doesn't actually care about your ring count, Kareem, they just want to see something they've never seen before.

[hateraid]

Jordan fans or people outside of Ohio who was been watching Nba games or movies for over 30 years never felt threatened. We know better than to fall for trivial miscellaneous stats and records that Espn been to using to fool the casuals and youngins. Thats that

If something wasn't a threat, why is it constantly brought up?
When it's brought up, it's part of a conversation. This is just common sense.

[3ball]

If something wasn't a threat, why is it constantly brought up?
When it's brought up, it's part of a conversation. This is just common sense.


Same thing happened with Kobe

It's just going on longer with Lebron because he's Lance Armstrong'ing this thing, or simply has a few extra years at a prime level than kobe did

But the goat talk will literally disappear once KD, Kawhi, or Giannis wins their next ring.

Only Jordan's dominance and resume stands the test of time

[8Ball]

Jordan fans or people outside of Ohio who was been watching Nba games or movies for over 30 years never felt threatened. We know better than to fall for trivial miscellaneous stats and records that Espn been to using to fool the casuals and youngins. Thats that

Jordan stans are threatened.

3ball has 40 000 posts defending Jordan's legacy and he is failing at it.

[8Ball]

Same thing happened with Kobe

It's just going on longer with Lebron because he's Lance Armstrong'ing this thing, or simply has a few extra years at a prime level than kobe did

But the goat talk will literally disappear once KD, Kawhi, or Giannis wins their next ring.

Only Jordan's dominance and resume stands the test of time

Kobe was never a better basketball player than Jordan.

LeBron is a superior basketball player then Jordan. More skilled, bigger and stronger. This hurts Jordan fanatics.

Jordan without Pippen can barely win 40 games... just a rich man's Kyrie Irving.

[Airupthere]

Kobe was never a better basketball player than Jordan.

LeBron is a superior basketball player then Jordan. More skilled, bigger and stronger. This hurts Jordan fanatics.

Jordan without Pippen can barely win 40 games.

Bigger, yes. Stronger, perhaps. More skilled, no. Lebron does a few things better than MJ but overall he's not better. You will find that a lot of people think that if they had Lebron's size and athleticism, they could play better. At their peaks, if you have the ATGS play with one another, I don't think Lebron will look like a GOAT playing with the other greats. I can see him having trouble even by Kobe alone. Mentally it is going to be tough having Magic, MJ, Kobe, all trash talking and being very competitive in the game. We know that level of pressure does not turn out well for Lebron.

[8Ball]

Passing = skill.

Jordan has Kyrie Irving levels of passing ability. Which is average and nothing special.

LeBron has elite passing skill and court vision.

[clipps]

LeBron's numbers are really overrated. He benefited with playing in an era with a much faster pace and he also had the luxury of passing the ball to 2 superstars in his prime and a roster full of great outside shooters. Jordan's assists got wasted due to the likes of Bill Winnington, Will Purdue, and guys like that. He had to carry a mental midget such as Pippin and make sure Rodman didn't die of a drug overdose or alcohol poisoning. It's clear that Jordan is the better scorer and passer, and to add that he's a much better rebounder and defender despite being 2 inches shorter and 50 lbs lighter.

LeBron's titles were also really weak as well. He got carried by 2 superstars in the first one, bailed out by Ray in the second one, had to resort to dirty and cowardly tactics in order to get a key member of the Warriors suspended during the 3rd one and got to take a 5 month vacation before having another vacation in Orlando where he got to play basketball against competition that clearly didn't care and wanted to gtfo of the bubble and go on with their lives.

His 4 rings equals maybe half of one of Jordan's rings. LeBron is still really good at basketball though.

[hateraid]

Same thing happened with Kobe

It's just going on longer with Lebron because he's Lance Armstrong'ing this thing, or simply has a few extra years at a prime level than kobe did

But the goat talk will literally disappear once KD, Kawhi, or Giannis wins their next ring.

Only Jordan's dominance and resume stands the test of time

You would still talk about him long after. Hence why he is still part of the conversation.

Do you Jordan fans not understand this logic?

[8Ball]

Wrong.

LeBron's numbers are the same before 2010 as after 2010.

Ray Allen only hit 1 three in game 6. If Ray Allen had shot his normal % up until the 4th quarter the Heat would have won earlier.

Draymond Green touching people's nuts is his own problem.

LeBron lost his starting point guard for the entire bubble. That never happened to Jordan.


LeBron's road is much tougher than Jordans.

[RRR3]

LeBron's numbers are really overrated. He benefited with playing in an era with a much faster pace and he also had the luxury of passing the ball to 2 superstars in his prime and a roster full of great outside shooters. Jordan's assists got wasted due to the likes of Bill Winnington, Will Purdue, and guys like that. He had to carry a mental midget such as Pippin and make sure Rodman didn't die of a drug overdose or alcohol poisoning. It's clear that Jordan is the better scorer and passer, and to add that he's a much better rebounder and defender despite being 2 inches shorter and 50 lbs lighter.

LeBron's titles were also really weak as well. He got carried by 2 superstars in the first one, bailed out by Ray in the second one, had to resort to dirty and cowardly tactics in order to get a key member of the Warriors suspended during the 3rd one and got to take a 5 month vacation before having another vacation in Orlando where he got to play basketball against competition that clearly didn't care and wanted to gtfo of the bubble and go on with their lives.

His 4 rings equals maybe half of one of Jordan's rings. LeBron is still really good at basketball though.
Saying anyone carried LeBron in 2012 is the height of retardation.

[hateraid]

LeBron's numbers are really overrated. He benefited with playing in an era with a much faster pace and he also had the luxury of passing the ball to 2 superstars in his prime and a roster full of great outside shooters. Jordan's assists got wasted due to the likes of Bill Winnington, Will Purdue, and guys like that. He had to carry a mental midget such as Pippin and make sure Rodman didn't die of a drug overdose or alcohol poisoning. It's clear that Jordan is the better scorer and passer, and to add that he's a much better rebounder and defender despite being 2 inches shorter and 50 lbs lighter.

LeBron's titles were also really weak as well. He got carried by 2 superstars in the first one, bailed out by Ray in the second one, had to resort to dirty and cowardly tactics in order to get a key member of the Warriors suspended during the 3rd one and got to take a 5 month vacation before having another vacation in Orlando where he got to play basketball against competition that clearly didn't care and wanted to gtfo of the bubble and go on with their lives.

His 4 rings equals maybe half of one of Jordan's rings. LeBron is still really good at basketball though.

Classic example why Lebron will always be in the conversation. Because Jordan stans will reach for anything to suppress Lebron's accomplishments.

The threat is always the focus of discussion.

[jmcwilliams]

Anyone remember?

Right out of Highschool

[2much_knowledge]

If something wasn't a threat, why is it constantly brought up?
When it's brought up, it's part of a conversation. This is just common sense.

I can't speak for everyone, but i just enjoy messing around with bron tards and schooling them nonestop. Does it mean i feel threatened? Hell no. Being a jordan fan doesn't always mean being very knowledgeable about the whole Nba. Some people who defend jordan aren't. I am tho and i see through the Espn B.s agenda

[2much_knowledge]

Jordan stans are threatened.

3ball has 40 000 posts defending Jordan's legacy and he is failing at it.

Thats on him. I don't need 40k post to explain why lebron's ceiling is #2. Lol

[hateraid]

I can't speak for everyone, but i just enjoy messing around with bron tards and schooling them nonestop. Does it mean i feel threatened? Hell no. Being a jordan fan doesn't always mean being very knowledgeable about the whole Nba. Some people who defend jordan aren't. I am tho and i see through the Espn B.s agenda

The fact is the conversation i still brought up. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant. That's more the point I'm eluding to

[light]

Sportswriters were talking about it as early as 2007.

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/2007-Better.png

[k0kakw0rld]

December 30th 1984

[clutchinho]

Nah. 4 rings with the cast of hall of famers he's played with?

That's an underachiever.

He is a fantastic GM though due to his ruthlessness. The Davis move and founding of Klutch will ensure he stacks the deck until he retires

[2much_knowledge]

The fact is the conversation i still brought up. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant. That's more the point I'm eluding to

Its a conversation because thats what Espn does when a top 10 caliber player is on a roll. They did the same thing with Kobe in 2002 and 2003 before falling from grace because of the rape case. Same in 2008 -10 , comparisons with MJ non stop with trivial records. This is nothing new. First with Penny, Grant Hill, Vince, kobe and now lebron.

[8Ball]

December 30th 1984

:applause: Correct answer.

[Axe]

Its a conversation because thats what Espn does when a top 10 caliber player is on a roll. They did the same thing with Kobe in 2002 and 2003 before falling from grace because of the rape case. Same in 2008 -10 , comparisons with MJ non stop with trivial records. This is nothing new. First with Penny, Grant Hill, Vince, kobe and now lebron.
That's already a given since mj is espn's media darling