Bird and Magic were the real posible heirs to the goat throne. Not bran or kobe

[2much_knowledge]

I truly believe a healthy magic or Bird, finishing their careers on their own terms, would have made a real case for the best ever over MJ. Some facts to consider

Bird:
* From 1980 to 1988, finished 1st or 2nd in mvp voting

* 3 straight mvps. Not done since

* killed the league without the need of athleticism,
volume 3 point shooting or advanced training

* With a healthy back and the drafting of Len Bias,
maybe the bulls dinasty would've never happened

* Constantly school the very athletic players who
guarded him (Dr J, Wilkins, Jordan, Worthy, Rodman)

Magic:
* still has 43 triple doubles over lebron. In a era.
that wasn't so easy to pile em up as todays

* The only player to win high school tittle, Ncaa.
tittle and Nba tittle back to back to back

* Only player in the modern era to reach the finals.
his first season and last season

* just missed the finals only 3 times in his entire.
career

* did it all. Mvps, finals mvps, assist leader, steals.
leader, allstar mvp, gold medal

* even after being ill in 1992, still won gold and.
allstar mvp while retired

[3ball]

Bird skillset and resume > lebron's

Bird is the goat shooter-passer-rebounder and a goat pure scorer

Magic is closer to lebron's skills and inferior to Bird

Magic had a better feel for the game than lebron with goat assist diversity (not just pounding the rock forever and getting an assist like lebron)

[2much_knowledge]

Bird skillset and resume > lebron's

Bird is the goat shooter-passer-rebounder and a goat pure scorer

Magic is closer to lebron's skills and inferior to Bird

Magic had a better feel for the game than lebron with goat assist diversity (not just pounding the rock forever and getting an assist like lebron)

Its tough to argue if Bird was the better player, but magic had the better team and better health, no question about it

[csh19792001]

Its tough to argue if Bird was the better player, but magic had the better team and better health, no question about it

It's not that hard to argue Bird was the better player, is it?

Look at their career records before Bird's back totally gave out. 1980-1988.

[light]

Society had already weighed Bird and Magic and they were found wanting.

So there's nothing to go over again, if they couldn't beat out Jordan they could never beat out LeBron.

[csh19792001]

Arguably, no two superstars ever did more for the NBA than Magic and Bird. They turned it from a league where all the games and even the Championship itself was (literally) on tape delay. The sport had become a joke. Bird and Magic made it into a National Treasure.

Basketball has been neither as culturally relevant or as popular, since, despite the phenomenal- 18 year- career of Lebron James.

[Airupthere]

If bird and magic played in todays era where everything has already been improved, they would have had better longevity which is the only really has over them. As it is, these are clearly the top

1-3 interchangeable are KAJ, MJ, Bill
4-5 are Bird and Magic

Leron is knocking on the door.

Longevity is a luxury of modern times. Peak is not.

[csh19792001]

If bird and magic played in todays era where everything has already been improved, they would have had better longevity which is the only really has over them. As it is, these are clearly the top

1-3 interchangeable are KAJ, MJ, Bill

While I agree entirely that longevity is drastically better (across sports) in the 2010's/2020's compared to the 1960's/1970's, because of artificial longevity from sports medicine and advances in training...

I have to totally disagree that Russell and Kareem were greater/more skilled/more spectacular/more valuable than Wilt Chamberlain.

That is ludicrous.

[2much_knowledge]

Society had already weighed Bird and Magic and they were found wanting.

So there's nothing to go over again, if they couldn't beat out Jordan they could never beat out LeBron.

You have outdone yourself, bravo.

[2much_knowledge]

Can we agree that at the paste a healthy Bird and Magic were going, they were on paste to have a better case for goatness than bron and kobe? Thats the only question here. Im a kobe fan and i believe this, specially with Larry

[I'm Smart]

Basketball has been neither as culturally relevant or as popular, since

Reality says otherwise.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0AGiq9j_Ak


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abr_LU822rQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCN0R0KF2Kg

[I'm Smart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuXZFQKKF7A


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YBv9Gt8RB8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTWvhpd6Qpo

[I'm Smart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNhSFXqsChM

And fortunately, we also have ratings to back this up.

The Finals ratings, for instance, peaked with Jordan and the Bulls in the 90s, dropped sharply once he retired, peaked again with his second Bulls stint, and have been in a fairly consistent decline ever since.

If Finals ratings aren't the best indicator of public interest and overall popularity, I'm not sure what is.

Love him, hate him, think he's the best, think he's not the best, whatever. But to suggest or state that peak basketball popularity and relevance came at any time other than when Jordan was in the middle of his championship runs is a falsehood.

[Hey Yo]

Bird skillset and resume > lebron's

Bird is the goat shooter-passer-rebounder and a goat pure scorer

Magic is closer to lebron's skills and inferior to Bird

Magic had a better feel for the game than lebron with goat assist diversity (not just pounding the rock forever and getting an assist like lebron)

LOL @ saying Magic never pounded the rock for extended periods of time.

Confirmed you've never seen Magic play

[light]

Bird already said that LeBron is the best SF of all time ("No one could do everything he can do at his position") so that's the end of that argument about LeBron and Bird.

Magic couldn't shoot and couldn't defend. No contest there either.

[8Ball]

Wrong.

Year 17 LeBron was better than either of those players at their absolute peak.

[SATAN]

Both players themselves don't think they were as good as LeBron.

[2much_knowledge]

Bird already said that LeBron is the best SF of all time ("No one could do everything he can do at his position") so that's the end of that argument about LeBron and Bird.

Magic couldn't shoot and couldn't defend. No contest there either.

Bird almost did everything bron did in just 7 seasons and magic is just a winner. Pretty much the opposite of lebron

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird almost did everything bron did in just 7 seasons and magic is just a winner. Pretty much the opposite of lebron
LeBron did what Bird did in just 7 seasons too :lol And your second point is fcking stupid, acting like a one title difference makes LeBron the opposite of a winner when he has 4

[2much_knowledge]

LeBron did what Bird did in just 7 seasons too :lol And your second point is fcking stupid, acting like a one title difference makes LeBron the opposite of a winner when he has 4

So, according to you, lebron had 3 rings, 3 mvps and 2 finals mvps at the end of 2009 - 2010? Where? Nba 2k career mode? Your imagination?

[8Ball]

Bird and Magic got gifted great players nearly right away.

Garbage thread by low IQ jordan stans.

[2much_knowledge]

Bird and Magic got gifted great players nearly right away.

Garbage thread by low IQ jordan stans.

Someones about to cry.... have my shoulder

Bird without Mchale and parish, was responsible by himself for the biggest turnaround in a season in history ( plus 32 wins)

Besides, magic and bird only been part of a big three. Lebron has had two big threes. So theres that

[Airupthere]

Someones about to cry.... have my shoulder

Bird without Mchale and parish, was responsible by himself for the biggest turnaround in a season in history ( plus 32 wins)

Besides, magic and bird only been part of a big three. Lebron has had two big threes. So theres that

Bird and Magic were all about winning with the opportunities they had. Lebron was out there calling people up to recruit and form superteams. There is stark difference. For some reason, bronsexuals have a hard time accepting this.

[8Ball]

Someones about to cry.... have my shoulder

Bird without Mchale and parish, was responsible by himself for the biggest turnaround in a season in history ( plus 32 wins)

Besides, magic and bird only been part of a big three. Lebron has had two big threes. So theres that

Magic joined a player that won the MVP the year Magic first played with him. Then got a #1 pick James Worthy his 3rd year.

Bird got a young McHale and Parish his 2nd year.

Magic and Bird are the most stacked super team bird fed players of all time next to Kawhi Leonard.


Who's crying. You the thread starter crying about how Bran is taking over the GOAT throne.

[Axe]

Magic joined a player that won the MVP the year Magic first played with him. Then got a #1 pick James Worthy his 3rd year.

Bird got a young McHale and Parish his 2nd year.

Magic and Bird are the most stacked super team bird fed players of all time next to Kawhi Leonard.


Who's crying. You the thread starter crying about how Bran is taking over the GOAT throne.
You have a point but both bird and magic solely played for the respective franchises that drafted them way back then.

[mr4speed]

Wrong.

Year 17 LeBron was better than either of those players at their absolute peak.


Lebron is a great basketball player but this statement about his year 17 is not accurate. Lets look at Lebron's stat line and then compare to Bird 1986 and Magic 1987.

Lebron for year 17 was at per game = 25.3 pts, 7.8 reb, 10.2 ast, 1.2 stl, .5 blk, and 3.9 turnovers. Lebron shot FG 49.3% and FT 69.3% and 3ptr 34.8%.

Bird in 86 per game was 25.8 pts, 9.8 reb, 6.8 ast, 2.0 stl, .6 blk, and 3.2 turnovers. Bird shot FG 49.6% and FT 89.6% and 3ptr 42.3%. So Bird in 86 beats Lebron year #17 in every category except assists per game and shot a higher % in all 3 areas and won MVP and FMVP.

Magic in 87 per game was 23.9 pts, 6.3 reb, 12.2 ast, 1.7 stl, .5 blk, and 3.8 turnovers. Magic shot FG 52.2% and FT 84.8% and 3ptr 20.5.% So Magic in 87 beats Lebron in assists per game, steals per game, fewer turnovers per game, the same blocks per game and shoots better from the FG and FT and wins MVP and FMVP. The only real weakness for Magic here is the 3 ptr%.

Magic 87 is better than Lebron year 17 in 6 of the 9 measurements.
Bird 86 is better than Lebron year 17 in 8 of the 9 measurements.
Your statement has been proven false. Had to clear this up.

[8Ball]

Lebron is a great basketball player but this statement about his year 17 is not accurate. Lets look at Lebron's stat line and then compare to Bird 1986 and Magic 1987.

Lebron for year 17 was at per game = 25.3 pts, 7.8 reb, 10.2 ast, 1.2 stl, .5 blk, and 3.9 turnovers. Lebron shot FG 49.3% and FT 69.3% and 3ptr 34.8%.

Bird in 86 per game was 25.8 pts, 9.8 reb, 6.8 ast, 2.0 stl, .6 blk, and 3.2 turnovers. Bird shot FG 49.6% and FT 89.6% and 3ptr 42.3%. So Bird in 86 beats Lebron year #17 in every category except assists per game and shot a higher % in all 3 areas and won MVP and FMVP.

Magic in 87 per game was 23.9 pts, 6.3 reb, 12.2 ast, 1.7 stl, .5 blk, and 3.8 turnovers. Magic shot FG 52.2% and FT 84.8% and 3ptr 20.5.% So Magic in 87 beats Lebron in assists per game, steals per game, fewer turnovers per game, the same blocks per game and shoots better from the FG and FT and wins MVP and FMVP. The only real weakness for Magic here is the 3 ptr%.

Magic 87 is better than Lebron year 17 in 6 of the 9 measurements.
Bird 86 is better than Lebron year 17 in 8 of the 9 measurements.
Your statement has been proven false. Had to clear this up.

Good post detailed post you wrote and I would agree that offensively those 2 guys may have had better offensive season but LeBron was superior to them because of defense.

Lakers were a top 3 defensive team and LeBron scored highly in all defensive metrics.

I am taking year 17 LeBron over those 2 for defensive capabilities.

[2much_knowledge]

Bird and Magic were all about winning with the opportunities they had. Lebron was out there calling people up to recruit and form superteams. There is stark difference. For some reason, bronsexuals have a hard time accepting this.

Thats true. I should go easier and be more sensitive to their needs

[Chick Stern]

Magic > Bird, and is easily in the GOAT conversation if he had not got the HIV.
In multiple Finals head to head, Bird only won once.
additionally, game 6, 1980

[2much_knowledge]

Magic > Bird, and is easily in the GOAT conversation if he had not got the HIV.
In multiple Finals head to head, Bird only won once.
additionally, game 6, 1980

I can respect this. But he had better health and a better team. However, like i said, Magic was relevant from start to finish and was on paste to make a case for goat. But at the same time, playing with kareem is kinda unfair

[mr4speed]

Magic > Bird, and is easily in the GOAT conversation if he had not got the HIV.
In multiple Finals head to head, Bird only won once.
additionally, game 6, 1980

Magic and Bird are in the conversation about great players but neither player can be considered a GOAT because neither player excelled at defense. Bird > Magic because he was a better defender than Magic and was a better player for the longer period of time during their careers. The MVP voting shows this. For the first 9 years before Bird missed the season here are his numbers = 4,2,2,2,1,1,1,3 and 2. For Magic, he was = not on the list, 11, 8, 3,3,2,3,1,and 3. Bird finished ahead of Magic in 8 of their first 9 years. I am not saying Magic was not good, but clearly Bird was better.

[8Ball]

Bird winning 3 MVP's in a row speaks huge volumes to me.

It is way too difficult to achieve such a feat, you can get fluky and win 2 like Nash. Not even Jordan or LeBron could pull it off.

I think Bird is a better basketball player than Magic was.