Embiid or Gobert?

[RRR3]

Who’s better? Apparently it’s a debate.

[light]

Ultimately Embiid will have the better career and Gobert will be the next Roy Hibbert.

[RRR3]

Ultimately Embiid will have the better career and Gobert will be the next Roy Hibbert.
Rudy is a rich man’s Hibbert.

[Xiao Yao You]

Ultimately Embiid will have the better career and Gobert will be the next Roy Hibbert.

Embiid obviously more likely to have a short career

[RRR3]

Xiao voted for Toody :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

Rudy is a rich man’s Hibbert.

Hibbert didn't rebound and couldn't guard in space. You can do better

[Xiao Yao You]

Xiao voted for Toody :roll: :roll: :roll:

easy choice. The guy that plays vs the guy that doesn't

[Xiao Yao You]

not sure what's funny about since he had almost twice the amount of votes for all league. I'm in the majority on this one

[RRR3]

Embiid: 29.6/10.8/2.8/1.3/1.2 in 32.3 MPG on .543/.400/.851 (66.5 TS%), 8.0 BPM, 0.279 WS/48 (Xiao’s favorite stat), 5.49 RPM, +10.8 RAPTOR

Rudy Toody Gobert: 13.9/13.2/1.3/0.4/2.8 in 30.2 MPG on .638/.000/.566 (63.9 TS%), 3.2 BPM, 0.226 WS/48, 2.86 RPM, +5.5 RAPTOR



dumbass Xiao: “Rudy is better!”






:yaohappy:

[Xiao Yao You]

28 games for Rudy to 22 games for Embiid

23-5 for Rudy to 18-10 in weaker conference for Embiid

[Xiao Yao You]

WS is my favorite stat?

[RRR3]

28 games for Rudy to 22 games for Embiid

23-5 for Rudy to 18-10 in weaker conference for Embiid
Let’s ignore all the stats that say Embiid’s impact dwarfs Toody’s and base it on team record!

Montrezzl Harrell>Jokic! Better team record!

[RRR3]

On/off

Embiid +16.9
Toody +12.6


I can do this all day. There isn’t a single stat that supports Toody being better this year, Xiao is absolutely insane :lol

This is like taking Mutombo over Hakeem

[Xiao Yao You]

Let’s ignore all the stats that say Embiid’s impact dwarfs Toody’s and base it on team record!

Montrezzl Harrell>Jokic! Better team record!

Harrell is a role player. Gobert is the franchise player. You're reaching

[Xiao Yao You]

On/off

Embiid +16.9
Toody +12.6


I can do this all day. There isn’t a single stat that supports Toody being better this year, Xiao is absolutely insane :lol

This is like taking Mutombo over Hakeem

probably every defensive stat which is about half the game :facepalm

[RRR3]

Harrell is a role player. Gobert is the franchise player. You're reaching
How is Gobert the franchise player if he’s not even the best player on the team? By your own admission, Mike Conley is better :yaohappy:

Why are you ignoring all the impact stats that show Embiid is far better? A team with Ben Simmons and Rudy starting together would be in the lottery.

[Kings2024Champs]

French tyson Chandler is not better :lol

[RRR3]

probably every defensive stat which is about half the game :facepalm
Embiid is a superstar on offense, Rudy is a role player on offense. For your point to make sense Embiid would have to be pretty meh on defense but all the advanced stats show he’s doing quite well on that end. In fact his defensive RAPTOR is +5.6, not far behind Rudy’s +6.3. Meanwhile offensive RAPTOR? Embiid has a +5.1, whereas Rudy is at -0.8, confirming the obvious: Embiid is a stud on offense and Rudy has minimal or even negative impact offensively because he kills spacing.

[RRR3]

French tyson Chandler is not better :lol
I prefer Baguette Biyombo, as Shaq calls him :oldlol:
https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Jazz-news-Shaq-keeps-Rudy-Gobert-beef-going-with-_Baguette-Biyombo_-diss-Thumbnaill-1000x600.jpg

[Xiao Yao You]

screen assists 2nd Does Embiid set screens?
dunks 1st Rudy Embiid?
defensive box +/- 11th to 16 for Rudy
off rebound % 10th for Rudy Embiid unranked
def reb % 3rd Rudy 8th Embiid
def rating Rudy 1st Embiid 11th
blk % 3rd Rudy unranked Embiid
FG% 4th Rudy Embiid unranked
def win shares Rudy 1st Embiid 19th
2 pt FG% Rudy 6th Embiid unranked
+/- 2nd Embiid?

I can do this all day

[Xiao Yao You]

How is Gobert the franchise player if he’s not even the best player on the team? By your own admission, Mike Conley is better :yaohappy:

Why are you ignoring all the impact stats that show Embiid is far better? A team with Ben Simmons and Rudy starting together would be in the lottery.

A team with Rudy and much worse than Simmons has been in the playoffs every year so I'm not sure how you figure that. Conley arguably has been their best player but they keep winning without him. Rudy they can't win without as has been proven time and time again

[Xiao Yao You]

Embiid is a superstar on offense, Rudy is a role player on offense. For your point to make sense Embiid would have to be pretty meh on defense but all the advanced stats show he’s doing quite well on that end. In fact his defensive RAPTOR is +5.6, not far behind Rudy’s +6.3. Meanwhile offensive RAPTOR? Embiid has a +5.1, whereas Rudy is at -0.8, confirming the obvious: Embiid is a stud on offense and Rudy has minimal or even negative impact offensively because he kills spacing.

a role player that is the catalyst for everything they do at both ends. Without his screens, rim running and offensive rebounding it doesn't work. Top 5 offense and defense. He attracts several defenders to the paint which opens up shooters. How is he killing spacing?

[RRR3]

screen assists 2nd Does Embiid set screens?
dunks 1st Rudy Embiid?
defensive box +/- 11th to 16 for Rudy
off rebound % 10th for Rudy Embiid unranked
def reb % 3rd Rudy 8th Embiid
def rating Rudy 1st Embiid 11th
blk % 3rd Rudy unranked Embiid
FG% 4th Rudy Embiid unranked
def win shares Rudy 1st Embiid 19th
2 pt FG% Rudy 6th Embiid unranked
+/- 2nd Embiid?

I can do this all day
You listed a bunch of stats for defense and rebounding when I already said Rudy is better on defense :lol

Screen assists? :roll: Dunks? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Also lol at you using FG% and 2PTFG% when Embiid is significantly more efficient due to 3s and FTs. That is literally just cherry-picking to find categories Rudy is ranked ahead in but it means literally nothing since Embiid is way more efficient overall and on massively higher volume.

[Xiao Yao You]

You listed a bunch of stats for defense and rebounding when I already said Rudy is better on defense :lol

Screen assists? :roll: Dunks? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Also lol at you using FG% and 2PTFG% when Embiid is significantly more efficient due to 3s and FTs. That is literally just cherry-picking to find categories Rudy is ranked ahead in but it means literally nothing since Embiid is way more efficient overall and on massively higher volume.

and yet the Philly offense is mediocre and the Jazz offense that revolves around Gobert is top 5

[RRR3]

a role player that is the catalyst for everything they do at both ends. Without his screens, rim running and offensive rebounding it doesn't work. Top 5 offense and defense. He attracts several defenders to the paint which opens up shooters. How is he killing spacing?
He is not the catalyst for their offense :roll: :roll:

Was Tyson Chandler the catalyst for the 11 Mavericks offense? :yaohappy:

Again he has a NEGATIVE rating in offensive RPM and offensive RAPTOR, he is factually hurting his team on offense you can literally look these stats up.

[RRR3]

and yet the Philly offense is mediocre and the Jazz offense that revolves around Gobert is top 5
-0.28 ORPM (Embiid 3.97)
-0.8 ORAPTOR (Embiid 5.1)


Kinda hard to argue he’s carrying their offense with those stats, slugger.

[Xiao Yao You]

He is not the catalyst for their offense :roll: :roll:

Was Tyson Chandler the catalyst for the 11 Mavericks offense? :yaohappy:

Again he has a NEGATIVE rating in offensive RPM and offensive RAPTOR, he is factually hurting his team on offense you can literally look these stats up.

Catalyst is from Snyder. His finishing and FT's were off to start the year so his numbers are down. He's been his dominating self recently

[RRR3]

Catalyst is from Snyder. His finishing and FT's were off to start the year so his numbers are down. He's been his dominating self recently
Except that’s literally not true, his impact stats offensively are pretty typical for him. Here are Rudy’s ORAPTOR ratings from the last 3 seasons: and 0.1, 0.7 and -0.6

Here are Rudy’s ORPM from the last 3 years: -0.78, 0.06 and -1.22



At some point you’re going to have to accept that the data says he’s at best neutral on offense in terms of impact.

[Kings2024Champs]

Which is worth more? A dunk or a layup? :D

[Tycriss]

How is Gobert the franchise player if he’s not even the best player on the team? By your own admission, Mike Conley is better :yaohappy:

Why are you ignoring all the impact stats that show Embiid is far better? A team with Ben Simmons and Rudy starting together would be in the lottery.

Gobert is clearly the best player in Jazz
https://i.postimg.cc/nzW60sjm/gobert.png

[Xiao Yao You]

Except that’s literally not true, his impact stats offensively are pretty typical for him. Here are Rudy’s ORAPTOR ratings from the last 3 seasons: and 0.1, 0.7 and -0.6

Here are Rudy’s ORPM from the last 3 years: -0.78, 0.06 and -1.22



At some point you’re going to have to accept that the data says he’s at best neutral on offense in terms of impact.

All I know is his screens and the pressure he puts on the rim opens up shooters and his offensive rebounding gives them extra chances.

[RRR3]

Gobert is clearly the best player in Jazz
https://i.postimg.cc/nzW60sjm/gobert.png
He’s also clearly worse than Embiid. This is like taking Ben Wallace over Shaq :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Which is worth more? A dunk or a layup? :D

probably a dunk since players today have a hard time making layups

[RRR3]

All I know is his screens and the pressure he puts on the rim opens up shooters and his offensive rebounding gives them extra chances.
Yeah and that’s not enough to make his impact on that end a strong positive or even a positive at all in most years. That’s literally what the data says. I’m sorry it upsets you but that’s just reality.

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert is clearly the best player in Jazz
https://i.postimg.cc/nzW60sjm/gobert.png

don't know what that is bu Bojan has ben their worst rotation player by far. Try again

[Xiao Yao You]

He’s also clearly worse than Embiid. This is like taking Ben Wallace over Shaq :lol

sure worked when Detroit beat the Lakers. Defense is half the game as we saw last night when the Sixers couldn't stop the Jazz

[Xiao Yao You]

Yeah and that’s not enough to make his impact on that end a strong positive or even a positive at all in most years. That’s literally what the data says. I’m sorry it upsets you but that’s just reality.

lots of data that says it does. I'm not upset. I know what he does. realize the simple minded have a hard time seeing past points and triple doubles

[RRR3]

lots of data that says it does. I'm not upset. I know what he does. realize the simple minded have a hard time seeing past points and triple doubles
Go ahead and find me an impact stat that says Gobert is a beast on offense. Impact stats, mind you, not box score stats.

[RRR3]

sure worked when Detroit beat the Lakers. Defense is half the game as we saw last night when the Sixers couldn't stop the Jazz
Yeah it’s not like Kobe tanked that series by chucking up a bunch of bricks and ignoring Shaq :rolleyes:

Ben Wallace>Shaq! :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Go ahead and find me an impact stat that says Gobert is a beast on offense. Impact stats, mind you, not box score stats.

who said beast? Catalyst was the word. Top 5 offense revolving around Rudy. It's a team game which is why the Jazz ave been sucessful. They are laying the best as a team

[Xiao Yao You]

3-3. Not everyone in the Embiid camp for some reason. Almost twice as many votes for all league. Why is Embiid not universally appreciated?

[Tycriss]

He’s also clearly worse than Embiid. This is like taking Ben Wallace over Shaq :lol

Clearly ? no

Gobert's impact is equal to a Supermax player

https://i.postimg.cc/yN4tGJP4/embiid-gobert.png

Last 8 seasons
https://i.postimg.cc/KYCPfLrB/gb2.png

[Xiao Yao You]

Clearly ? no

Gobert's impact is equal to a Supermax player

https://i.postimg.cc/yN4tGJP4/embiid-gobert.png

Last 8 seasons
https://i.postimg.cc/KYCPfLrB/gb2.png

one of the top players in the game as I've said

[RRR3]

Clearly ? no

Gobert's impact is equal to a Supermax player

https://i.postimg.cc/yN4tGJP4/embiid-gobert.png

Last 8 seasons
https://i.postimg.cc/KYCPfLrB/gb2.png
We’re talking about this season. In case you hadn’t noticed Embiid has taken a big leap and Toody is the same player he’s been for like 7 years.

[RRR3]

Xiao when the LEBRON stat says Bogdanovic isn’t the worst rotation player on the Jazz and confirms his boo thang Niang sucks ass “RRRRRROARRRRR HORRIBLE STAT”


Xiao when the LEBRON stat says his loverboy Gobert is great “Actually a great stat!”







:yaohappy:

[Xiao Yao You]

We’re talking about this season. In case you hadn’t noticed Embiid has taken a big leap and Toody is the same player he’s been for like 7 years.

Rudy isn't the same player. He continues to get better. Taking his team to new heights in the process

[RRR3]

Rudy isn't the same player. He continues to get better. Taking his team to new heights in the process
What has he gotten better at recently? He’s been the same player every year from 2016-17 to now.

[Xiao Yao You]

Xiao when the LEBRON stat says Bogdanovic isn’t the worst rotation player on the Jazz and confirms his boo thang Niang sucks ass “RRRRRROARRRRR HORRIBLE STAT”


Xiao when the LEBRON stat says his loverboy Gobert is great “Actually a great stat!”







:yaohappy:

Philly wishes they had a 9th man as good as Niang as does probably every team in the league

[Xiao Yao You]

What has he gotten better at recently? He’s been the same player every year from 2016-17 to now.

His defense is better. Passing to the corners is better

[tpols]

Clearly ? no

Gobert's impact is equal to a Supermax player

https://i.postimg.cc/yN4tGJP4/embiid-gobert.png

Last 8 seasons
https://i.postimg.cc/KYCPfLrB/gb2.png

Damn yo... James Harden in a league of his own.

[RRR3]

Philly wishes they had a 9th man as good as Niang as does probably every team in the league
No one wishes they had that sack of shit :lol

[RRR3]

His defense is better. Passing to the corners is better
He was already considered arguably the best defender in the league in 2017, so I doubt his defense has improved significantly. So we’re left with...Passing to the corners, eh? His assists are about the same as they were in 2017 rn :yaohappy: And it’s not like the Jazz ever run the offense through him so he’s not setting anyone up on offense.

[Xiao Yao You]

No one wishes they had that sack of shit :lol

Philly's depth sucks. The Jazz have a 9th man contributing and a 10th and 11th when called upon

[Xiao Yao You]

He was already considered arguably the best defender in the league in 2017, so I doubt his defense has improved significantly. So we’re left with...Passing to the corners, eh? His assists are about the same as they were in 2017 rn :yaohappy: And it’s not like the Jazz ever run the offense through him so he’s not setting anyone up on offense.

Yes his D has improved. Passing to the corner for the Jazz might not mean an assist. It might just start the blender. His screens and rim running is setting everything up

[Tycriss]

We’re talking about this season. In case you hadn’t noticed Embiid has taken a big leap and Toody is the same player he’s been for like 7 years.

Question ?
If you replace Gobert with Embiid, Utah Jazz would be in 23v / 5D in this terrible Western Conference? (although I think Embiid is individually better than Gobert )

[Xiao Yao You]

Tycriss seems to get what the trolls don't

[RRR3]

Question ?
If you replace Gobert with Embiid, Utah Jazz would be in 23v / 5D in this terrible Western Conference? (although I think Embiid is individually better than Gobert )
By all accounts Embiid has been significantly more impactful this year so yes they’d be even better when he played (he has missed 6 games and Rudy hasn’t missed one yet)

[RRR3]

Tycriss seems to get what the trolls don't
Saying Gobert has been better this year is trolling. Saying Gobert is great offensively even after being presented with data saying otherwise is trolling. Saying Niang is good despite stats saying he’s awful is trolling. You are the troll.

[Xiao Yao You]

Saying Gobert has been better this year is trolling. Saying Gobert is great offensively even after being presented with data saying otherwise is trolling. Saying Niang is good despite stats saying he’s awful is trolling. You are the troll.

what stats? The ones that say Niang has been ne of their best defenders and has shot over 40% from 3 the past two years?

[RRR3]

what stats? The ones that say Niang has been ne of their best defenders and has shot over 40% from 3 the past two years?
Niang has a DRPM of -0.65 :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Niang has a DRPM of -0.65 :lol

great defensive rating. Best 9th man in the game! :cheers:

[Manny98]

Philly wishes they had a 9th man as good as Niang as does probably every team in the league
Who?

[Proctor]

I can't stand Embiid but come on. He is miles better in almost all facets of the game

[RRR3]

Who?
:roll:

Some scrub Xiao has a crush on

[RRR3]

I can't stand Embiid but come on. He is miles better in almost all facets of the game
The stats back it up too, but I guess the only stat that matters to Xiao is who makes his private parts tingle the most and we all know Rudy leads the league in that category.

[RRR3]

great defensive rating. Best 9th man in the game! :cheers:
Defensive rating isn’t a good way to rank individual players. Common knowledge.

[Proctor]

The stats back it up too, but I guess the only stat that matters to Xiao is who makes his private parts tingle the most and we all know Rudy leads the league in that category.
Let's be fair, Gobert's team is undefeated when they outscore the opponent. :rant:rant

[fourkicks44]

I would have abstainined from voting however I when I saw Xiao had voted I felt I needed to neutralize bias with bias.

Everyone knows Joel Embiid is the most hated player on ISh (along with Kyrie).

[RRR3]

I would have abstainined from voting however I when I saw Xiao had voted I felt I needed to neutralize bias with bias.

Everyone knows Joel Embiid is the most hated player on ISh (along with Kyrie).
It’s not biased to say Embiid is better. He’s factually better. Xiao is retarded.

[fourkicks44]

It’s not biased to say Embiid is better. He’s factually better. Xiao is retarded.
No it's not, you are right.

But unnecessary polling from Xiao or myself doesn't bring anything to the argument at large.

[RRR3]

No it's not, you are right.

But unnecessary polling from Xiao or myself doesn't bring anything to the argument at large.
It’s not even an argument. You could argue Embiid has been the best player in the league this year. I wanted to see if Xiao was dumb enough to still rank Rudy over him and surprise surprise he was.

[RRR3]

8-4 Embiid, and one of the people who voted for Gobert later admitted Embiid was better (tycriss). Poor Xiao :(

[Mask the Embiid]

Dont even take this question serious enough to even vote :oldlol:



do better ish...

[RRR3]

Dont even take this question serious enough to even vote :oldlol:



do better ish...
Our resident Rudy fanatic disagrees.

[Xiao Yao You]

Who?

Nets could certainly use him. He'd be their defensive stopper :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Let's be fair, Gobert's team is undefeated when they outscore the opponent. :rant:rant

Which is almost every game and they aren't just out scoring them they are blowing most of them out

[Manny98]

btw just so we're clear

Jokic shits on both Toody & EmChoke

[Thenameless]

I can't vote, so I'll just say it here. Embiid.

[Xiao Yao You]

It’s not even an argument. You could argue Embiid has been the best player in the league this year. I wanted to see if Xiao was dumb enough to still rank Rudy over him and surprise surprise he was.

you could argue it but it wouldn't make you right. You wanted to troll me. It's what you live for ya sick ****!

[Xiao Yao You]

Jonathan Feigen: Sixers center Joel Embiid, who sat out on Monday in SLC with back tightness, is probable to play on Wednesday (https://*********.com/social/) against the Rockets.
– via Twitter Jonathan_Feigen (https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Feigen)


Now there's a surprise. Not running scared against the Rockets! :oldlol:

[RRR3]

btw just so we're clear

Jokic shits on both Toody & EmChoke
Embiid has taken a huge leap this year tbh. You could go either way for best center if we’re just basing it off this season. Last season it was Jokic obviously. Toody isn’t even in the conversation.

[RRR3]

Can’t wait for Xiao’s excuses when the Jazz lose in the first round again. It’s never Toody’s fault of course even though he apparently is a Tim Duncan level player. I’m sure it’ll be Mitchell’s fault again or maybe Favors. :lol

[tontoz]

On/off

Embiid +16.9
Toody +12.6


I can do this all day. There isn’t a single stat that supports Toody being better this year, Xiao is absolutely insane :lol

This is like taking Mutombo over Hakeem


Not really. Rudy has played over 130 minutes more than embiid so far and that number will probably triple before the season is over.

[RRR3]

Not really. Rudy has played over 130 minutes more than embiid so far and that number will probably triple before the season is over.
Yep that makes him better at basketball :yaohappy:

Look forward to Toody getting played off the floor as usual in the playoffs and people pretending to be surprised French Hibbert can’t switch onto guards.

[tontoz]

Yep that makes him better at basketball :yaohappy:

Look forward to Toody getting played off the floor as usual in the playoffs and people pretending to be surprised French Hibbert can’t switch onto guards.

Embiid hasn't exactly been stellar in the playoffs.

It doesn't matter how good you are if you aren't in the game. Embiid has missed more games then he's played over his career. Even when he plays he is frequently hobbled.

Hard for me to take him very seriously when he has shown time and again he can't be relied on.

[RRR3]

Embiid hasn't exactly been stellar in the playoffs.

It doesn't matter how good you are if you aren't in the game.
The question was who was better, and Embiid has clearly taken a huge leap this year but yeah go ahead and pick Rudy so you can feel edgy and smart despite all available data saying Embiid is far better.

[tontoz]

The question was who was better, and Embiid has clearly taken a huge leap this year but yeah go ahead and pick Rudy so you can feel edgy and smart despite all available data saying Embiid is far better.

Edgy? What good is a guy who doesn't play?

For his career he is shooting 43.7% in the playoffs. Excuse me if I am not blown away by playing well in 22 games to start the season while missing 6.

[RRR3]

Edgy? What good is a guy who doesn't play?

For his career he is shooting 43.7% in the playoffs. Excuse me if I am not blown away by playing well in 22 games to start the season while missing 6.
Lol FG% is this 2003?

[Xiao Yao You]

Can’t wait for Xiao’s excuses when the Jazz lose in the first round again. It’s never Toody’s fault of course even though he apparently is a Tim Duncan level player. I’m sure it’ll be Mitchell’s fault again or maybe Favors. :lol

again not what I said. Spurs were more than Duncan as we've continued to see since he retired. Hard to imagine a first round loss if healthy

[RRR3]

again not what I said. Spurs were more than Duncan as we've continued to see since he retired. Hard to imagine a first round loss if healthy
I didn’t say the Spurs would be bad with Rudy in place of Gobert I said they wouldn’t win any rings. Unless you’re insinuating any version of Toody had equivalent impact to 99, 03, 05, 07 or 14 Duncan :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Not really. Rudy has played over 130 minutes more than embiid so far and that number will probably triple before the season is over.

which is why I've said I'd rather have Gobert. He's likely to be on the floor. Embiid might have an earache

[Xiao Yao You]

I didn’t say the Spurs would be bad with Rudy in place of Gobert I said they wouldn’t win any rings. Unless you’re insinuating any version of Toody had equivalent impact to 99, 03, 05, 07 or 14 Duncan :lol

You are the one that insinuates things. Spurs would have still been a great defense. They still would have had Ginobli, Parker and Pop along with an all league center/DPOY

[Xiao Yao You]

Yep that makes him better at basketball :yaohappy:

Look forward to Toody getting played off the floor as usual in the playoffs and people pretending to be surprised French Hibbert can’t switch onto guards.

You can keep saying it but it's not true.

[RRR3]

You are the one that insinuates things. Spurs would have still been a great defense. They still would have had Ginobli, Parker and Pop along with an all league center/DPOY
Ok, so what years did they have enough to win a ring with Gobert in place of Duncan?

[Xiao Yao You]

Edgy? What good is a guy who doesn't play?

For his career he is shooting 43.7% in the playoffs. Excuse me if I am not blown away by playing well in 22 games to start the season while missing 6.

and he's been in the east. Gobert has been knocked out by NBA champs and conference champs while playing with Rubio :facepalm

[tontoz]

Lol FG% is this 2003?

His playoff EFG of 47% sucks for a center also.

[Xiao Yao You]

Ok, so what years did they have enough to win a ring with Gobert in place of Duncan?

I'll leave that up to you. It's not hard to imagine them being in the conversation still. Great D. HOF players and coach. Common sense

[RRR3]

His playoff EFG of 47% sucks for a center also.
Still not using the right stat :lol

[RRR3]

I'll leave that up to you. It's not hard to imagine them being in the conversation still. Great D. HOF players and coach. Common sense
I already told you what I thought would happen (0 rings). I’m asking you which years they win since you disagreed.

[Xiao Yao You]

His playoff EFG of 47% sucks for a center also.

it's Mark Eaton bad

[RRR3]

and he's been in the east. Gobert has been knocked out by NBA champs and conference champs while playing with Rubio :facepalm
Rubio isn’t a bad player.

[Xiao Yao You]

I already told you what I thought would happen (0 rings). I’m asking you which years they win since you disagreed.

ask away. They would have been in the conversation. Spurs were more than Duncan

[tontoz]

Still not using the right stat :lol


In other words you don't want to talk about embiid in the playoffs. I understand :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Rubio isn’t a bad player.

no you just don't want him starting for you

[RRR3]

In other words you don't want to talk about embiid in the playoffs. I understand :lol
TS%, figured I wouldn’t have to say it but then again you think Baguette Biyombo is outplaying someone producing at Peak Shaq levels rn...

[Xiao Yao You]

TS%, figured I wouldn’t have to say it but then again you think Baguette Biyombo is outplaying someone producing at Peak Shaq levels rn...

Shaq could be counted on.

[RRR3]

Shaq could be counted on.
From 96 to 2006, Shaq missed the following amount of games in the regular season: 28, 31, 22, 1, 3, 8, 15, 15, 15, 9 and 23.


As usual you’re talking out of your ass.

[tontoz]

TS%, figured I wouldn’t have to say it but then again you think Baguette Biyombo is outplaying someone producing at Peak Shaq levels rn...

What were their numbers last night?


Gobert had 11/9

Embiid had 0/0 :bowdown:

[Xiao Yao You]

tontoz seems to get it

[RRR3]

Gobert is better than prime Shaq too if you’re basing it on availability. Careful.

[RRR3]

If durability matters so much I’m assuming you’d both take Gobert over Anthony Davis too right?


If not, you’re being inconsistent and have no real point.

[tontoz]

From 96 to 2006, Shaq missed the following amount of games in the regular season: 28, 31, 22, 1, 3, 8, 15, 15, 15, 9 and 23.


As usual you’re talking out of your ass.


So Shaq mised 170 games in 11 seasons. Embiid missed 215 in his first 3 seasons.

[fourkicks44]

In other words you don't want to talk about embiid in the playoffs. I understand :lol


Let's talk about it.

How did he play in the last season's playoffs?

[tontoz]

If durability matters so much I’m assuming you’d both take Gobert over Anthony Davis too right?


If not, you’re being inconsistent and have no real point.

Not very comparable. The most games embiid has played in the regular season is 64. AD has played at least 64 in 5 seasons and played 62 in last year's shortened season, 11 more than embiid.

[RRR3]

So Shaq mised 170 games in 11 seasons. Embiid missed 215 in his first 3 seasons.
He’s missed about the same amount of games as Shaq often did in his last 4 seasons. That’s enough of a sample size to let you know he’s probably going to play 60-65 games a year plus the playoffs. Similar to what Shaq often did on average. Please tell us how you’d take Gobert over prime Shaq :lol

[tontoz]

Let's talk about it.

How did he play in the last season's playoffs?


You mean when they got swept in the first round by Boston? That was certainly an impressive display against.....who was Boston playing at center? I can't remember :lol

[tontoz]

He’s missed about the same amount of games as Shaq often did in his last 4 seasons. That’s enough of a sample size to let you know he’s probably going to play 60-65 games a year plus the playoffs. Similar to what Shaq often did on average. Please tell us how you’d take Gobert over prime Shaq :lol

You need to make up your mind which Shaq you are talking about.:lol

[RRR3]

You need to make up your mind which Shaq you are talking about.:lol
The last 4 seasons refers to Embiid’s last 4 seasons.

[fourkicks44]

You mean when they got swept in the first round by Boston? That was certainly an impressive display against.....who was Boston playing at center? I can't remember :lol

And he never saw a double or triple team all series...

That Celtics team defense just throwing away points.

How did they even win that series?

[imdaman99]

Embiid is one of those guys I can't watch games of. He flops like crazy. He's not trae level, but a big man that is prob stronger than the guy that's covering him, I can't accept it.

[tontoz]

The last 4 seasons refers to Embiid’s last 4 seasons.

Embiid missed 110 games in his past 4 seasons. Of course that doesn't even include his first two seasons that he missed entirely.

Shaq had 11 seasons playing over 64 games, something embiid has never done. Let's see if he can actually have one season where he shows up consistently before we compare him to Shaq.

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert is better than prime Shaq too if you’re basing it on availability. Careful.

and he plays D

[RRR3]

Embiid missed 110 games in his past 4 seasons. Of course that doesn't even include his first two seasons that he missed entirely.

Shaq had 11 seasons playing over 64 games, something embiid has never done. Let's see if he can actually have one season where he shows up consistently before we compare him to Shaq.
I wasn’t comparing him to Shaq I’m pointing out there was a period in time you idiots would have been arguing Rudy>Shaq with the logic you’re using.

[RRR3]

and he plays D
Shaq was all-defense 3 times and even you aren’t crazy enough to argue Baguette Biyombo over Shaq. I hope. You are the 3ball of Gobert fans after all.

[Xiao Yao You]

He’s missed about the same amount of games as Shaq often did in his last 4 seasons. That’s enough of a sample size to let you know he’s probably going to play 60-65 games a year plus the playoffs. Similar to what Shaq often did on average. Please tell us how you’d take Gobert over prime Shaq :lol

Like most old guys Shaq's body finally started to break down. You really comparing an old player with one in his prime as far as injuries?

[tontoz]

I wasn’t comparing him to Shaq I’m pointing out there was a period in time you idiots would have been arguing Rudy>Shaq with the logic you’re using.

No you are the one who brought up Shaq so you could pretend you are making sense. News flash, it's not working.

[tontoz]

For the record in Shaq's first 3 seasons he missed 5 games total.

[RRR3]

Like most old guys Shaq's body finally started to break down. You really comparing an old player with one in his prime as far as injuries?
Shaq missed 28, 31 and 22 games from age 23-25.

[RRR3]

For the record in Shaq's first 3 seasons he missed 5 games total.
Yeah and for the rest of his career he usually missed at least 15 games a year.

[Xiao Yao You]

somehow Embiid vs Gobert became Duncan, Shaq Hakeem...

[RRR3]

somehow Embiid vs Gobert became Duncan, Shaq Hakeem...
Embiid is playing at a level similar to those players right now. Stats back it up. Rudy only plays one end I’ve shown you his offensive impact is minimal and often actually negative.

[tontoz]

Yeah and for the rest of his career he usually missed at least 15 games a year.

Keep reaching to make a comparison that makes no sense. Shaq has 10 seasons playing at least 67 games, something embiid has never done. They aren't even remotely comparable.

[tontoz]

Yeah and for the rest of his career he usually missed at least 15 games a year.


What makes this comment even worse is that embiid has never had a season where he missed only 15 games.

[fourkicks44]

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/p-j-tuckers-impressive-ironman-streak-is-over/

GOAT

MVP

Never misses a game.

/Thread

[Xiao Yao You]

Embiid is playing at a level similar to those players right now. Stats back it up. Rudy only plays one end I’ve shown you his offensive impact is minimal and often actually negative.

you've shown me something. I'll take what I've seen

[RRR3]

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/p-j-tuckers-impressive-ironman-streak-is-over/

GOAT

MVP

Never misses a game.

/Thread
beTteR than EmBiId

[RRR3]

you've shown me something. I'll take what I've seen
I’m not sure how you can watch Gobert and think he’s an offensive force. He can’t create for himself or others.

[GOBB]

Anyone who picks Gobert is either trolling or a natural born idiot. Embiid didn’t play and Rudy did what exactly? 11pts even tho Jazz scored 134. Yikes. And great call putting Rudy on Ben Simmons. Yikes again.

[RRR3]

Anyone who picks Gobert is either trolling or a natural born idiot. Embiid didn’t play and Rudy did what exactly? 11pts even tho Jazz scored 134. Yikes. And great call putting Rudy on Ben Simmons. Yikes again.
I truly don’t think people realize how well Embiid is playing this year.

[GOBB]

I truly don’t think people realize how well Embiid is playing this year.

They do they just don’t want to admit it. Makes them nauseous

[hold this L]

Anyone who picks Gobert is either trolling or a natural born idiot. Embiid didn’t play and Rudy did what exactly? 11pts even tho Jazz scored 134. Yikes. And great call putting Rudy on Ben Simmons. Yikes again.

Rudy put the clamps on Simmons though, his play was far better when guarded by others. I agree with the rest of your post.

[RRR3]

They do they just don’t want to admit it. Makes them nauseous
It’s a testament to how stupid and incapable of being objective this board is that Gobert got any votes besides Xiao who’s obviously in love with Rudy. This is literally like picking Mutombo over Hakeem.

[Xiao Yao You]

I’m not sure how you can watch Gobert and think he’s an offensive force. He can’t create for himself or others.

yet he's the catalyst of a top 5 offense

[Xiao Yao You]

Anyone who picks Gobert is either trolling or a natural born idiot. Embiid didn’t play and Rudy did what exactly? 11pts even tho Jazz scored 134. Yikes. And great call putting Rudy on Ben Simmons. Yikes again.

Jazz won by 12 on the 3rd game in 4 nights with a career night from Simmons and a season high from Harris. Simmons was 3-7 against Rudy so yeah great call. Simmons feeling disrespected because they put the best defender in the world on him.:roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

I truly don’t think people realize how well Embiid is playing this year.

no they tune in to watch how well and he's got the sniffles and they never find out

[Kings2024Champs]

Jazz won by 12 on the 3rd game in 4 nights with a career night from Simmons and a season high from Harris. Simmons was 3-7 against Rudy so yeah great call. Simmons feeling disrespected because they put the best defender in the world on him.:roll:

If hes best defender and offensive catalyst of the best team in the west why do u think AD is better??

[Xiao Yao You]

If hes best defender and offensive catalyst of the best team in the west why do u think AD is better??

because Adrian Dantley retired in the 90's?

[Kings2024Champs]

because Adrian Dantley retired in the 90's?

Swing and a miss.. You know damn well who im talking about gobert gobbler

[Xiao Yao You]

Swing and a miss.. You know damn well who im talking about gobert gobbler

there's only 1 AD to me

[RRR3]

there's only 1 AD to me
Still brought up a good point. If Gobert is the catalyst on both ends for the best team in the league, surely you rank him over Anthony Davis?

Unless you’re trolling and don’t actually think Gobert is an offensive stud.

[Proctor]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=31982&dateline=1542148632

[Xiao Yao You]

going to talk smack about headband Joe now?

[RRR3]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=31982&dateline=1542148632
POV: you're petrified to admit you think Toody Gobert is a better player than Anthony Davis.

[Xiao Yao You]

POV: you're petrified to admit you think Toody Gobert is a better player than Anthony Davis.

no I just like thinking you're losing sleep over it

wouldn't someone like Oden or Embiid be a better comparison for Davis?

[RRR3]

no I just like thinking you're losing sleep over it

wouldn't someone like Oden or Embiid be a better comparison for Davis?
You're right, it's an insult to Gobert to compare him to the likes of Anthony Davis :rolleyes:



Is there ANY big man you think is better than Gobert? :oldlol:

[tontoz]

Sure Embiid has played well so far this year when he has actually played, but this is his 7th season. Over his career he has missed more games than he has played. Even when he does play he has frequently underachieved. At times it has seemed he was more interested in social media than basektball.

Playing well over 22 games doesn't change the narrative, especially since he has already missed 6 games. Maybe he is turning a corner but it will take more than 22 games to convince me of that.

[RRR3]

I would have taken Embiid every other year since he's been (relatively) healthy too :oldlol:

Him taking the next step just makes it a comical comparison. Gobert is a souped up Tyson Chandler, he can't be better than Embiid when he's neutral or even negative on offense unless you think his defensive impact is comparable to Bill Russell (hard sell considering his defense gets exposed every playoffs).

[tontoz]

I would have taken Embiid every other year since he's been (relatively) healthy too :oldlol:

Him taking the next step just makes it a comical comparison. Gobert is a souped up Tyson Chandler, he can't be better than Embiid when he's neutral or even negative on offense unless you think his defensive impact is comparable to Bill Russell (hard sell considering his defense gets exposed every playoffs).


For the record i never actually said that Gobert was the better player. I did say that Embiid's lack of availability is a valid criticism.

A couple of years ago people here were saying Embiid was better than Jokic. Then the playoffs started and Jokic showed out while Embiid wet his pants. And of course Jokic was actually available consistently in the regular season. The most games he has missed in a season is 9.

[RRR3]

For the record i never actually said that Gobert was the better player. I did say that Embiid's lack of availability is a valid criticism.

A couple of years ago people here were saying Embiid was better than Jokic. Then the playoffs started and Jokic showed out while Embiid wet his pants. And of course Jokic was actually available consistently in the regular season. The most games he has missed in a season is 9.
Bullshit, we can all see how you voted :oldlol:

I wasn't comparing him to Jokic, but at least that comparison makes sense since they're both superstars (Gobert is a "superstar" in the same way prime DeAndre Jordan was a superstar)

[tontoz]

RIF how i voted doesn't change what i said. And of course the OP didn't mention whether it was this season or a career thing.

I took it more as a career issue and took into account how often Embiid misses games or plays half assed. If the OP said for this season that changes my response.

[Xiao Yao You]

You're right, it's an insult to Gobert to compare him to the likes of Anthony Davis :rolleyes:



Is there ANY big man you think is better than Gobert? :oldlol:

why big man? Why not player?

[RRR3]

why big man? Why not player?
I figured if I specified it to big men, it'd be easier for you to make a list. If you'd like to make a list of all players in the league currently better than Gobert regardless of position, that's fine too. Who would be on that list?

[Xiao Yao You]

Bullshit, we can all see how you voted :oldlol:

I wasn't comparing him to Jokic, but at least that comparison makes sense since they're both superstars (Gobert is a "superstar" in the same way prime DeAndre Jordan was a superstar)

Jordan was never the player Rudy is. Keep reaching

[Xiao Yao You]

I figured if I specified it to big men, it'd be easier for you to make a list. If you'd like to make a list of all players in the league currently better than Gobert regardless of position, that's fine too. Who would be on that list?

I'll leave the lists to you. He's one of the best players in the league.

[RRR3]

RIF how i voted doesn't change what i said. And of course the OP didn't mention whether it was this season or a career thing.

I took it more as a career issue and took into account how often Embiid misses games or plays half assed. If the OP said for this season that changes my response.
Asking who's better between active players usually implies at the current period in time. If it implied total career value, Dwight Howard would still be one of the "best" players in the league.

[RRR3]

I'll leave the lists to you. He's one of the best players in the league.
If he's one of the best players in the league, you should be able to specify what that means (top 10, top 20, top 50, etc.)

[Xiao Yao You]

Asking who's better between active players usually implies at the current period in time. If it implied total career value, Dwight Howard would still be one of the "best" players in the league.

Gobert has never been better. Howard has been a joke for years. :facepalm

[RRR3]

Jordan was never the player Rudy is. Keep reaching
First team All-NBA in 2016. Rudy has never done that.

[Xiao Yao You]

If he's one of the best players in the league, you should be able to specify what that means (top 10, top 20, top 50, etc.)

Don't know how many times we need to go over it but it's a small list of guys that are among the best players at both ends and can carry a bad team. You can give me Porzingas on your list if you feel the need. Anyone not trolling knows the truth

[RRR3]

Gobert has never been better. Howard has been a joke for years. :facepalm
Howard was also about twice the player Rudy is in his prime which was my point. When you're asking who's better about active players you're referring to their current level of play. Embiid is playing at a much higher level than Rudy is, and it's confirmed by the data. Rudy is a great defender but he doesn't impact the game much on offense (verified by data).

[Xiao Yao You]

First team All-NBA in 2016. Rudy has never done that.

Never played in LA. Jordan was never the defender Rudy is. He could catch lobs and was a better rebounder. Rudy tops him in literally everything else

[Xiao Yao You]

Howard was also about twice the player Rudy is in his prime which was my point. When you're asking who's better about active players you're referring to their current level of play. Embiid is playing at a much higher level than Rudy is, and it's confirmed by the data. Rudy is a great defender but he doesn't impact the game much on offense (verified by data).

Yet an offense that revolves around him is top 5. Already said I'll take the guy that actually plays. Not sure how many times it needs to be drilled into your skull

[RRR3]

Don't know how many times we need to go over it but it's a small list of guys that are among the best players at both ends and can carry a bad team. You can give me Porzingas on your list if you feel the need. Anyone not trolling knows the truth
When has Rudy carried a bad team? You called a Jazz team with prime Hayward and prime Favors bad, so excuse me if I don't take you seriously there.

Here's my list of players currently better than Rudy:

LeBron
Curry
Durant
Harden
Kawhi
Giannis
Jokic
Embiid
AD
Doncic
Jimmy Butler
Paul George
CP3
Lillard
Tatum



Debatable:

Kyrie
Lowry
Bam Adebayo



Like I said you can rank him 16th if you want but I don't see a case for the first 15 guys I listed. Feel free to tell me how he's better than any of them at this moment in time, you'll have trouble doing so. the other 3 are debatable and I can see a case going either way. I know I'd rather have Bam for the playoffs if I'm making a team though.

[tontoz]

Asking who's better between active players usually implies at the current period in time. If it implied total career value, Dwight Howard would still be one of the "best" players in the league.


Asking whos better usually means using more than a 3rd of the season as a basis of comparison.

Howard is not a great comparison. He only missed 3 games in his first 6 seasons.

Embiid has never had a healthy season, has routinely underachieved and doesn't always play well with others. That has been his career in a nutshell. Maybe this season will be different but i am not going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Let him go out and produce, then we can revisit this.

[RRR3]

Yet an offense that revolves around him is top 5. Already said I'll take the guy that actually plays. Not sure how many times it needs to be drilled into your skull
The offense doesn't revole around Gobert. You can literally verify his offensive impact, I don't know why you're pretending these stats don't exist. Not sure how many times it needs to be drilled into your skull.

[RRR3]

Asking whos better usually means using more than a 3rd of the season as a basis of comparison.

Howard is not a great comparison. He only missed 3 games in his first 6 seasons.

Embiid has never had a healthy season, has routinely underachieved and doesn't always play well with others. That has been his career in a nutshell. Maybe this season will be different but i am not going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Let him go out and produce, then we can revisit this.
Can you at least admit saying the Jazz offense revolves around Rudy Gobert is insanity? That is like saying Tyson Chandler was the catalyst to the 11 Mavs offense.

[Xiao Yao You]

When has Rudy carried a bad team? You called a Jazz team with prime Hayward and prime Favors bad, so excuse me if I don't take you seriously there.

Here's my list of players currently better than Rudy:

LeBron
Curry
Durant
Harden
Kawhi
Giannis
Jokic
Embiid
AD
Doncic
Jimmy Butler
Paul George
CP3
Lillard
Tatum



Debatable:

Kyrie
Lowry
Bam Adebayo



Like I said you can rank him 16th if you want but I don't see a case for the first 15 guys I listed. Feel free to tell me how he's better than any of them at this moment in time, you'll have trouble doing so. the other 3 are debatable and I can see a case going either way. I know I'd rather have Bam for the playoffs if I'm making a team though.

Not sure why I have to continue to repeat myself over and over again but the Jazz were tanking when Rudy suddenly made them a top 6 team. Hayward and Favors had led them to one of the worst records in the league including a 9 game losing streak. When Rudy was hurt over a couple other seasons they were again bad despite the greatness of Favors, Hayward, Snyder, Mitchell etc for some strange reason?

He just took Bam to school. What happened to Porzingas and Trae and all those other greats? Why is it your list keeps getting smaller?

[Xiao Yao You]

The offense doesn't revole around Gobert. You can literally verify his offensive impact, I don't know why you're pretending these stats don't exist. Not sure how many times it needs to be drilled into your skull.

Rudy high pick and roll, Rudy rim runs, Rudy pounds the offensive glass. He's the catalyst

[Xiao Yao You]

Can you at least admit saying the Jazz offense revolves around Rudy Gobert is insanity? That is like saying Tyson Chandler was the catalyst to the 11 Mavs offense.

Chandler led the league in screen assists, dunks and was top 10 in offensive boards? Don't actually remember much pick and roll at all in Dallas. Lots of pick and pop not that Dirk really needed a screen

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Embiid.

Higher impact player on both ends, more skilled and you can run an offense through him.

Prone to injury? Yeah maybe altho that doesn't ignore him being one of the lead candidates for MVP. If not downright MVP.


Rudy high pick and roll, Rudy rim runs, Rudy pounds the offensive glass. He's the catalyst

:oldlol:

[RRR3]

Embiid.

Higher impact player on both ends, more skilled and you can run an offense through him.

Prone to injury? Yeah maybe altho that doesn't ignore the fact he's one of the lead candidates for MVP. If not downright MVP.



:oldlol:
Are you just now discovering him? He’s the 3ball of Gobert stans. Shit is amazing :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

Embiid.

Higher impact player on both ends, more skilled and you can run an offense through him.

Prone to injury? Yeah maybe altho that doesn't ignore him being one of the lead candidates for MVP. If not downright MVP.



:oldlol:

tell it to Snyder. I didn't design the offense

[tontoz]

Can you at least admit saying the Jazz offense revolves around Rudy Gobert is insanity? That is like saying Tyson Chandler was the catalyst to the 11 Mavs offense.

I would say he is a complimentary offensive player, not a go to player. More impactful than you seem to think but not as good as Xiao seems to think.

He shoots 64% for his career and is averaging 14-15 ppg in recent years. Chandler shot worse and scored less than Rudy.

[RRR3]

Not sure why I have to continue to repeat myself over and over again but the Jazz were tanking when Rudy suddenly made them a top 6 team. Hayward and Favors had led them to one of the worst records in the league including a 9 game losing streak. When Rudy was hurt over a couple other seasons they were again bad despite the greatness of Favors, Hayward, Snyder, Mitchell etc for some strange reason?

He just took Bam to school. What happened to Porzingas and Trae and all those other greats? Why is it your list keeps getting smaller?
Bam was the only player you decided to pick out and he was on the “debatable list” :yaohappy: What happened to him being better than AD and Embiid? I really don’t care about your cherry picked stats on the 38-44 1015 Jazz, if you think Hayward and Favors weren’t solid help for Gobert in 2015 you’re just ignorant.

[RRR3]

I would say he is a complimentary offensive player, not a go to player. More impactful than you seem to think but not as good as Xiao seems to think.

He shoots 64% for his career and is averaging 14-15 ppg in recent years. Chandler shot worse and scored less than Rudy.
Offensive impact stats indicate he’s relatively neutral on that end and even negative at times.

[Xiao Yao You]

I would say he is a complimentary offensive player, not a go to player. More impactful than you seem to think but not as good as Xiao seems to think.

He shoots 64% for his career and is averaging 14-15 ppg in recent years. Chandler shot worse and scored less than Rudy.

#2 all time in EFG%, FG% and 2 pt FG%

[tontoz]

Offensive impact stats indicate he’s relatively neutral on that end and even negative at times.

Last season they were much better on offense with Gobert in the game.

http://www.82games.com/1920/19UTA20.HTM#onoff

[Xiao Yao You]

Bam was the only player you decided to pick out and he was on the “debatable list” :yaohappy: What happened to him being better than AD and Embiid? I really don’t care about your cherry picked stats on the 38-44 1015 Jazz, if you think Hayward and Favors weren’t solid help for Gobert in 2015 you’re just ignorant.

well he just schooled Bam and Porzingas so they couldn't help but stick out. Bam wasn't on the debatable last time you posted it. Last time it was laughable to think Rudy was better. As I said for some reason your list keeps getting shorter :roll:

Never said Hayward and Favors weren't solid. They were the leaders of one of the worst teams in the league before Rudy made them relevant. All bad teams have some solid players. Need great players which they got

[Xiao Yao You]

Last season they were much better on offense with Gobert in the game.

http://www.82games.com/1920/19UTA20.HTM#onoff

You're talking to a brick wall. He thinks Porzingas is what an impactful offensive player is

[RRR3]

Last season they were much better on offense with Gobert in the game.

http://www.82games.com/1920/19UTA20.HTM#onoff
Why would you use basic on/off?

Gobert RPM last year: -0.78

Gobert RAPTOR last year: +0.1

[RRR3]

You're talking to a brick wall. He thinks Porzingas is what an impactful offensive player is
Porzingis is factually more impactful than Gobert on offense lol. His spacing is big.

[RRR3]

well he just schooled Bam and Porzingas so they couldn't help but stick out. Bam wasn't on the debatable last time you posted it. Last time it was laughable to think Rudy was better. As I said for some reason your list keeps getting shorter :roll:

Never said Hayward and Favors weren't solid. They were the leaders of one of the worst teams in the league before Rudy made them relevant. All bad teams have some solid players. Need great players which they got
Yeah I was being generous to Gobert with that list but apparently you can’t figure that out. I don’t think Gobert is better or even equal to Bam in any way, at least in a playoff setting, but I figured if I was generous to Rudy you’d complain less but then again you seem to think Rudy is top 5.

[Xiao Yao You]

Porzingis is factually more impactful than Gobert on offense lol. His spacing is big.

Yeah his spacing is real big. Rudy owned him in back to back games it was beyond ugly! You don't seem to understand spacing. Rudy's vertical spacing opens up the perimeter for the Jazz

[Xiao Yao You]

Yeah I was being generous to Gobert with that list but apparently you can’t figure that out. I don’t think Gobert is better or even equal to Bam in any way, at least in a playoff setting, but I figured if I was generous to Rudy you’d complain less but then again you seem to think Rudy is top 5.

He just owned Bam too. The kid learned some hard lessons from the master in that one. He'll be alright though unlike the unicorn

[tontoz]

Why would you use basic on/off?

Gobert RPM last year: -0.78

Gobert RAPTOR last year: +0.1



Do you know how they calculate RPM? If so please share.

BTW Gobert's overall RPM last year was actually higher than Embiid's. :oldlol:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2020/position/9

[RRR3]

Yeah his spacing is real big. Rudy owned him in back to back games it was beyond ugly! You don't seem to understand spacing. Rudy's vertical spacing opens up the perimeter for the Jazz
Gobert playing good defense on Porzingis=Gobert being better at offense? :lol

And yes Porzingis is more impactful on offense. He’s used much differently on offense but he opens things up for Luka. “Vertical spacing” isn’t a thing you just made that up. It’s complete horseshit. Gobert hurts spacing, as proved by his weak offensive impact stats.

Offensive RPM Gobert vs Porzingis

21: KP 1.62 vs. RG -0.78
20: KP 0.89 vs. RG -0.78


Offensive RAPTOR ratings

21: KP +1.7 vs. RG -0.8
20: KP +0.6 vs. RG +0.1

[RRR3]

He just owned Bam too. The kid learned some hard lessons from the master in that one. He'll be alright though unlike the unicorn
I don’t care if he outplayed Bam, Bam can create offense, score outside the paint and guard perimeter players at an elite level. This is all stuff that gives him an advantage over Gobert in a 7 game series against a strong opponent.

[RRR3]

Do you know how they calculate RPM? If so please share.

BTW Gobert's overall RPM last year was actually higher than Embiid's. :oldlol:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2020/position/9
They haven’t shared it. We’re not talking about last year and RPM isn’t the end all be all and I think the creators have even said defensive RPM is less accurate than offensive RPM.

[tontoz]

They haven’t shared it. We’re not talking about last year and RPM isn’t the end all be all and I think the creators have even said defensive RPM is less accurate than offensive RPM.

:confusedshrug:


Why would you use basic on/off?

Gobert RPM last year: -0.78

Gobert RAPTOR last year: +0.1


FYI this years RPM includes last year's RPM because it is a predictive stat. It uses past info to predict future performance.

[RRR3]

:confusedshrug:




FYI this years RPM includes last year's RPM because it is a predictive stat. It uses past info to predict future performance.
I include last year because Xiao keeps insisting Rudy is playing worse than usual on offense this year (bullshit).

[tontoz]

I include last year because Xiao keeps insisting Rudy is playing worse than usual on offense this year (bullshit).


Weren't you the one who likes TS? Rudy's TS so far this year is 6% worse than last season, his worst since the 15/16 season. Still pretty good at 64% though.

[RRR3]

Weren't you the one who likes TS? Rudy's TS so far this year is 6% worse than last season, his worst since the 15/16 season. Still pretty good at 64% though.
Yeah that’s because he’s been worse than usual at the FT line, which is saying something given what a brick artist he is there. But his offensive impact stats are in line with many of his other prime years.

[tontoz]

Yeah that’s because he’s been worse than usual at the FT line, which is saying something given what a brick artist he is there. But his offensive impact stats are in line with many of his other prime years.


uhh...no. His foul shooting is only responsible for fraction of his TS decline. Most of it is because his 2pt % has dropped from 69.3% to 64.1%.

A 6.4% decline in foul shooting isn't going to cause a 6% decline in TS.

Personally i think it is just a small sample size issue.

[Xiao Yao You]

Do you know how they calculate RPM? If so please share.

BTW Gobert's overall RPM last year was actually higher than Embiid's. :oldlol:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2020/position/9

and rewarded with all league with almost twice as many votes as Embiid but it's silly to even discuss anyone being better tan the China doll

[RRR3]

uhh...no. His foul shooting is only responsible for fraction of his TS decline. Most of it is because his 2pt % has dropped from 69.3% to 64.1%.

A 6.4% decline in foul shooting isn't going to cause a 6% decline in TS.

Personally i think it is just a small sample size issue.
Also possible he’s losing athleticism. Unskilled players like Rudy don’t have the longest shelf life.

[RRR3]

and rewarded with all league with almost twice as many votes as Embiid but it's silly to even discuss anyone being better tan the China doll
You know Embiid is going to finish ahead of him in All-NBA this year right?

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert playing good defense on Porzingis=Gobert being better at offense? :lol

And yes Porzingis is more impactful on offense. He’s used much differently on offense but he opens things up for Luka. “Vertical spacing” isn’t a thing you just made that up. It’s complete horseshit. Gobert hurts spacing, as proved by his weak offensive impact stats.

Offensive RPM Gobert vs Porzingis

21: KP 1.62 vs. RG -0.78
20: KP 0.89 vs. RG -0.78


Offensive RAPTOR ratings

21: KP +1.7 vs. RG -0.8
20: KP +0.6 vs. RG +0.1

He owned Porzingas all over the floor. I realize you don't actually watch the games. Why are defenses collapsing in the paint against the Jazz if Rudy is hurting them? They are hitting more 3's than anyone. Woudn't you give up the paint to the stiff to guard the perimeter? I didn't come up with vertical spacing. Someone else had to because of Rudy's impact at the rim

[Xiao Yao You]

I don’t care if he outplayed Bam, Bam can create offense, score outside the paint and guard perimeter players at an elite level. This is all stuff that gives him an advantage over Gobert in a 7 game series against a strong opponent.

He couldn't do any of that against Rudy for some reason.

[fourkicks44]

What surprises me is how Tontoz hates on Joel for the amount of games he plays, yet has such a strong love affair with Steph Curry despite the fact they have played virtually the same amount of games since Joel's Rookie season.

[Xiao Yao You]

I include last year because Xiao keeps insisting Rudy is playing worse than usual on offense this year (bullshit).

He started out the season worse. Not finishing as well because of more concerted effort to stop him and not hitting his FT. Right now he's rolling

[Xiao Yao You]

Yeah that’s because he’s been worse than usual at the FT line, which is saying something given what a brick artist he is there. But his offensive impact stats are in line with many of his other prime years.

He's been bad at the line before. He wasn't finishing as well

[Xiao Yao You]

Also possible he’s losing athleticism. Unskilled players like Rudy don’t have the longest shelf life.

He's as athletic as ever. Teams are trying harder to stop him which just pens up the perimeter. Pick your poison. It's why the Jazz have lost 1 game in over a month

[RRR3]

He owned Porzingas all over the floor. I realize you don't actually watch the games. Why are defenses collapsing in the paint against the Jazz if Rudy is hurting them? They are hitting more 3's than anyone. Woudn't you give up the paint to the stiff to guard the perimeter? I didn't come up with vertical spacing. Someone else had to because of Rudy's impact at the rim
I said he hurts spacing, that’s just a fact, he’s relatively neutral overall on offense. Some years he has seemingly been negative though, including this season so far. I’m not sure why you expect me to take your opinion of someone you’re clearly madly in love with over impact statistics that are unbiased. I really don’t care if he outplayed Porzingis H2H one game determines little. He factually impacts offense less.

[Xiao Yao You]

You know Embiid is going to finish ahead of him in All-NBA this year right?

I don't know. Is there a minimum games involved? Is Davis considered a center? Be hard to leave the best player on the best team off

[Xiao Yao You]

I said he hurts spacing, that’s just a fact, he’s relatively neutral overall on offense. Some years he has seemingly been negative though, including this season so far. I’m not sure why you expect me to take your opinion of someone you’re clearly madly in love with over impact statistics that are unbiased. I really don’t care if he outplayed Porzingis H2H one game determines little. He factually impacts offense less.

It's not a fact. It's completely the opposite in fact.

Porzingas doing nothing but shoot 3's seemed to hurt the Mavs more than anything all the while Rudy was destroying them at the other end

[RRR3]

He couldn't do any of that against Rudy for some reason.
Pretty sure Rudy isn’t a perimeter player.

[RRR3]

It's not a fact. It's completely the opposite in fact.

Porzingas doing nothing but shoot 3's seemed to hurt the Mavs more than anything all the while Rudy was destroying them at the other end
I’m giving you stats and you are responding with emotions because Gobert gives you a boner.

Porzingis shooting 3s opens up driving lanes for Luka, if he played like Gobert Luka’s game would suffer.

[Jasper]

I see Joel sitting at the top of the key always trying to figure it out ... he just waits for the ball to swing to him and then takes a shot and trots down the court.
Rudy runs, posts up , boards with ease and just makes his teammates better

Rudy all the way

[RRR3]

I see Joel sitting at the top of the key always trying to figure it out ... he just waits for the ball to swing to him and then takes a shot and trots down the court.
Rudy runs, posts up , boards with ease and just makes his teammates better

Rudy all the way
When the hell does Rudy post up? :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

I’m giving you stats and you are responding with emotions because Gobert gives you a boner.

Porzingis shooting 3s opens up driving lanes for Luka, if he played like Gobert Luka’s game would suffer.

Luca would be on one of the best teams in the league if he played with one of the best players. Mavs have sucked and from what I saw Porzingas was the main reason

[RRR3]

Luca would be on one of the best teams in the league if he played with one of the best players. Mavs have sucked and from what I saw Porzingas was the main reason
The Mavs aren’t doing great because they’re one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. If you want to blame that on Porzingis fine, but we were strictly discussing offense and Porzingis helps them more than Rudy would on that end. I didn’t say Rudy wouldn't help the Mavs (obviously he would since they need defensive help) I said he’d be less useful for them on offense than Porzingis is. Luka needs those open lanes.

[tontoz]

What surprises me is how Tontoz hates on Joel for the amount of games he plays, yet has such a strong love affair with Steph Curry despite the fact they have played virtually the same amount of games since Joel's Rookie season.

:facepalm

First of all that is just wrong because Embiid spent his first two seasons on the bench. Curry played 159 games in those two seasons.


Secondly Steph has 8 seasons playing at least 69 games, something Embiid has never done. Or even gotten close.

[GOBB]

Jazz won by 12 on the 3rd game in 4 nights with a career night from Simmons and a season high from Harris. Simmons was 3-7 against Rudy so yeah great call. Simmons feeling disrespected because they put the best defender in the world on him.:roll:

Post has nothing to do with Jazz winning and everything to do with the non scoring factor known as Rudy Gobert. Or was that your point he played a lot of games in 4 days so he was tired? Yikes

[fourkicks44]

:facepalm

First of all that is just wrong because Embiid spent his first two seasons on the bench. Curry played 159 games in those two seasons.


Secondly Steph has 8 seasons playing at least 69 games, something Embiid has never done. Or even gotten close.

Embiid hasn't even played 8 seasons yet.

Curry also played 3 years of college. They started out playing at professionally at essentially the same age. But that is of little importance as they are obviously at different stages of their careers. I Just find your assessments oddly inconsistent.

And you also want to make a point that Joel has underachieved and his playoff performance is poor?

Sure Curry has had his highs and lows but that is also why perhaps no player has underachieved more than he has in the past decade.

And you can say what you will about Curry in the playoffs, everyone has seen that transpire before our eyes.

[tontoz]

Embiid hasn't even played 8 seasons yet.

Curry also played 3 years of college. They started out playing at professionally at essentially the same age. But that is of little importance as they are obviously at different stages of their careers. I Just find your assessments oddly inconsistent.

And you also want to make a point that Joel has underachieved and his playoff performance is poor?

Sure Curry has had his highs and lows but that is also why perhaps no player has underachieved more than he has in the past decade.

And you can say what you will about Curry in the playoffs, everyone has seen that transpire before our eyes.


So a two time MVP with 3 rings has underachieved more than Embiid, whose career year was capped by wetting his pants in the playoffs against the Raps and walking off the court in tears?


:roll:

[Akeem34TheDream]

We all know if a non shooting guard like Simmons was starting for the Jazz and getting 30m+ a year Xiao would gather up his mormon friends, load up their guns and try to assasinate the GM.

[fourkicks44]

So a two time MVP with 3 rings has underachieved more than Embiid, whose career year was capped by wetting his pants in the playoffs against the Raps and walking off the court in tears?


:roll:

When did the expectations of Embiid get so high? 3 seasons ago the Sixers were not even predicted to make the playoffs?

Curry should have at least 5 rings by now.

Greatest team ever beaten by Lebron and scrubs (in and MVP season with homecourt, no less).

When he had a chance to prove he was one of the greatest and put the team on the shoulders against the Raptors in the finals (with homecourt) he couldn't.

2 MVP awards and no FMVP in all those finals campaigns.

These are not big underachievement's?

[tontoz]

Did Curry ever go 6-18 in a tight game 7 and walk off the court crying? :lol

When has Embiid had a season that would not be seen as a disappointment? Philly has been underachievers year after year. They were seen by many as title contenders in recent years and got swept in the first round last season by Boston.

Embiid came into the league with huge expectations and hasn't lived up to them for even one season. Curry came into the league from Davidson with minimal expectations. When his rookie contract was up he resigned for well below the max because his own team wasnt convinced he was a max player.

Anyone suggesting Curry would eventually be a MVP when he was drafted or during his first few seasons would have been laughed at.

[tontoz]

I just remembered that Minny after drafted two pgs with Steph still on the board. :oldlol: Nobody saw Steph as a MVP caliber player.

[Axe]

We all know if a non shooting guard like Simmons was starting for the Jazz and getting 30m+ a year Xiao would gather up his mormon friends, load up their guns and try to assasinate the GM.
:oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

The Mavs aren’t doing great because they’re one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. If you want to blame that on Porzingis fine, but we were strictly discussing offense and Porzingis helps them more than Rudy would on that end. I didn’t say Rudy wouldn't help the Mavs (obviously he would since they need defensive help) I said he’d be less useful for them on offense than Porzingis is. Luka needs those open lanes.

No he doesn't. A big part of their problem against the Jazz was that he wasn't inside playing big but thinking he was Steph Curry. Donic would love a guy setting screens, running the pick and roll and pounding the offensive glass

[Axe]

Did Curry ever go 6-18 in a tight game 7 and walk off the court crying? :lol

When has Embiid had a season that would not be seen as a disappointment? Philly has been underachievers year after year. They were seen by many as title contenders in recent years and got swept in the first round last season by Boston.

Embiid came into the league with huge expectations and hasn't lived up to them for even one season. Curry came into the league from Davidson with minimal expectations. When his rookie contract was up he resigned for well below the max because his own team wasnt convinced he was a max player.

Anyone suggesting Curry would eventually be a MVP when he was drafted or during his first few seasons would have been laughed at.
It was hbk dimwit who kept on implying that the 2019 sixers had embiid with much help, from guys like butler, simmons and horford, to the point that he dubbed them as the warriors of the east, despite never winning 55 games, never having the top seed in their conference nor getting past ecsf. But the narrative was only made mostly to prop up his hero kawhit as usual.

[Xiao Yao You]

We all know if a non shooting guard like Simmons was starting for the Jazz and getting 30m+ a year Xiao would gather up his mormon friends, load up their guns and try to assasinate the GM.

well he doesn't fit next to their best player duh. Makes about as much sense as Rubio and Favors spotting up from 3.

[Akeem34TheDream]

well he doesn't fit next to their best player duh. Makes about as much sense as Rubio and Favors spotting up from 3.

Yeah thats what Im talking about. You made 5k post complaining about Favors getting 10m per year. You always cry about how Gobert is carrying the team. Embiid has it much worse. Gobert is a pretty lucky guy. Also had better coaching.

[Xiao Yao You]

Yeah thats what Im talking about. You made 5k post complaining about Favors getting 10m per year. You always cry about how Gobert is carrying the team. Embiid has it much worse. Gobert is a pretty lucky guy. Also had better coaching.

Embiid can stretch the floor and Simmons is a lot better player than anyone Rudy has played with except maybe Hayward's last season and Conley this year. How is it lucky to have to wait 6 years for a team to finally build a team around you? Snyder is a better coach than Rivers but that isn't sayin much

And we actually got a hint in Hayward's last season what 4 shooters around Rudy could do and instead of continuing on that path they replaced Hill with Rubio and put Favors and Hood back in the starting lineup! Now that's some front office and coaching work there :roll:

[Akeem34TheDream]

Embiid can stretch the floor and Simmons is a lot better player than anyone Rudy has played with except maybe Hayward's last season and Conley this year. How is it lucky to have to wait 6 years for a team to finally build a team around you? Snyder is a better coach than Rivers but that isn't sayin much

And we actually got a hint in Hayward's last season what 4 shooters around Rudy could do and instead of continuing on that path they replaced Hill with Rubio and put Favors and Hood back in the starting lineup! Now that's some front office and coaching work there :roll:

Embiid and Simmons aren't an ideal fit even though Embiid can shoot. And finding shooters that can defend isn't as easy as you think.

[RRR3]

Did Curry ever go 6-18 in a tight game 7 and walk off the court crying? :lol

When has Embiid had a season that would not be seen as a disappointment? Philly has been underachievers year after year. They were seen by many as title contenders in recent years and got swept in the first round last season by Boston.

Embiid came into the league with huge expectations and hasn't lived up to them for even one season. Curry came into the league from Davidson with minimal expectations. When his rookie contract was up he resigned for well below the max because his own team wasnt convinced he was a max player.

Anyone suggesting Curry would eventually be a MVP when he was drafted or during his first few seasons would have been laughed at.
You really don’t remember what Curry did in game 7 of the 2016 finals?

[Xiao Yao You]

Embiid and Simmons aren't an ideal fit even though Embiid can shoot. And finding shooters that can defend isn't as easy as you think.

no it's not but getting Rubio and playing like it's the 80's with Favors isn't even trying

[RRR3]

No he doesn't. A big part of their problem against the Jazz was that he wasn't inside playing big but thinking he was Steph Curry. Donic would love a guy setting screens, running the pick and roll and pounding the offensive glass
I really don’t care what you think was the problem in one particular game, I’m telling you it is a statistical fact that the Mavericks problem is defensive. It looks like Porzingis is hurting them on that end according to the data, so I’m sure they would be better with Gobert, but again, Porzingis is factually more impactful on offense because he draws bigs out of the paint and opens up driving lanes for Luka. Those same bigs would stay in the paint if Gobert replaced KP. Is the trade off worth it? Yes, because the Mavs desperately need defense and KP isn’t that great offensively, but Gobert absolutely would not help Luka more ON OFFENSE, which was the debate. I’m not sure why you think Gobert being in the paint opens up driving lanes :lol. That doesn’t make any sense.

[Akeem34TheDream]

I really don’t care what you think was the problem in one particular game, I’m telling you it is a statistical fact that the Mavericks problem is defensive. It looks like Porzingis is hurting them on that end according to the data, so I’m sure they would be better with Gobert, but again, Porzingis is factually more impactful on offense because he draws bigs out of the paint and opens up driving lanes for Luka. Those same bigs would stay in the paint if Gobert replaced KP. Is the trade off worth it? Yes, because the Mavs desperately need defense and KP isn’t that great offensively, but Gobert absolutely would not help Luka more ON OFFENSE, which was the debate. I’m not sure why you think Gobert being in the paint opens up driving lanes :lol. That doesn’t make any sense.
I think we should cut him some slack. Being a Gobert stan must be very hard. There is also a Curry stan and Kawhi stan in ISH but those guys have a lot more to work with in arguments. Gobert is so limited on offense that he is much more dependant on his teammates.

[Xiao Yao You]

I really don’t care what you think was the problem in one particular game, I’m telling you it is a statistical fact that the Mavericks problem is defensive. It looks like Porzingis is hurting them on that end according to the data, so I’m sure they would be better with Gobert, but again, Porzingis is factually more impactful on offense because he draws bigs out of the paint and opens up driving lanes for Luka. Those same bigs would stay in the paint if Gobert replaced KP. Is the trade off worth it? Yes, because the Mavs desperately need defense and KP isn’t that great offensively, but Gobert absolutely would not help Luka more ON OFFENSE, which was the debate. I’m not sure why you think Gobert being in the paint opens up driving lanes :lol. That doesn’t make any sense.

Yeah he drew Gobert out and their offense was still shit because that's all he did. If Gobert was there the bigs would come out of the paint on the pick and roll. Mitchell has plenty of driving lanes. Gobert seals people off. There's many ways to do things. I realize you think 3's is the only way but it's not obviously. Again Jazz are a top 5 offense with Gobert as the catalyst. The Mavs suck mostly because of the unicorn

[Xiao Yao You]

I think we should cut him some slack. Being a Gobert stan must be very hard. There is also a Curry stan and Kawhi stan in ISH but those guys have a lot more to work with in arguments. Gobert is so limited on offense that he is much more dependant on his teammates.

they're dependent on him as well. It's a team game. They are showing everyone what a team can do rather people would rather watch Iso garbage in Brooklyn or LA or not

[RRR3]

Yeah he drew Gobert out and their offense was still shit because that's all he did. If Gobert was there the bigs would come out of the paint on the pick and roll. Mitchell has plenty of driving lanes. Gobert seals people off. There's many ways to do things. I realize you think 3's is the only way but it's not obviously. Again Jazz are a top 5 offense with Gobert as the catalyst. The Mavs suck mostly because of the unicorn
The Mavericks had the best offensive rating of all time last year with Porzingis and are still top 10 this year, I’m not sure where you’re getting the ridiculous idea that he’s hurting them on offense when the impact data proves he’s helping. Again you keep ignoring stats that clearly state Porzingis is more impactful on offense because you desperately want to give Gobert a handjob. The fact that Porzingis draws Gobert out of the paint is AWESOME for Luka, I’m not sure how you don’t get that. Just because the Mavs didn’t have a good game doesn’t prove anything, one game sample sizes mean very little. I’m sorry, but if you can’t be objective and admit that Gobert hurts spacing, you’re no better than 3ball. Just a loony fan in love.

[RRR3]

I think we should cut him some slack. Being a Gobert stan must be very hard. There is also a Curry stan and Kawhi stan in ISH but those guys have a lot more to work with in arguments. Gobert is so limited on offense that he is much more dependant on his teammates.
I’ll cut him slack when he stops saying ridiculous, easily disprovable bullshit like Gobert helps a team offensively more than Porzingis :wtf:

[tpols]

How the hell do you create a topic at 2pm and have 250 replies three hours later?

OP, you need to get a ****ing job bro. For real.

[Axe]

This thread really got to more than 15 pages lmfao

[LoneyROY7]

I'm voting for Toody to make it more interesting. :oldlol:

Yes, I know Wiggle is better.

[tontoz]

You really don’t remember what Curry did in game 7 of the 2016 finals?


Actually I did forget about it.:lol to be fair he dropped 93 points in the previous 3 games. Embiid sucked the whole series against the Raps.

Still the point stands that curry is one of the biggest overachievers in the league, an average size pg with average athleticism that nobody was predicting to be a great player. Acting like he has underachieved is just nuts.

[Xiao Yao You]

The Mavericks had the best offensive rating of all time last year with Porzingis and are still top 10 this year, I’m not sure where you’re getting the ridiculous idea that he’s hurting them on offense when the impact data proves he’s helping. Again you keep ignoring stats that clearly state Porzingis is more impactful on offense because you desperately want to give Gobert a handjob. The fact that Porzingis draws Gobert out of the paint is AWESOME for Luka, I’m not sure how you don’t get that. Just because the Mavs didn’t have a good game doesn’t prove anything, one game sample sizes mean very little. I’m sorry, but if you can’t be objective and admit that Gobert hurts spacing, you’re no better than 3ball. Just a loony fan in love.

it wasn't awesome for Luca because Porzingas did nothing else but hurt them for two straight games. Two straight not 1

[Xiao Yao You]

I’ll cut him slack when he stops saying ridiculous, easily disprovable bullshit like Gobert helps a team offensively more than Porzingis :wtf:

Jazz wouldn't be better without screening, rim running, offensive rebounding