Lebron can't lead a team that was lottery the prior year (lottery team) to playoffs

[3ball]

See 2004, 2005 and 2019... He's 0-3

He only made the playoffs with developed, high seeds and can't actually carry bad teams

[Lebron23]

Jordan cannot win a playoffs series without Pippen.

[Stanley Kobrick]

big pip, long whip

unzip, cool whipped

[jlip]

Why is 3Ball not permanently banned?

[3ball]

Why is 3Ball not permanently banned?


Do you realize that Lebron missed the 05' Playoffs with the East all-star center on his team, and needed to add a 22/6/5 all-defender and the future Coach of the Year to make it in 06'?

Or are you unaware of these facts?

Yes he made the Finals in 07' with a 1-star team, just like Iverson, Dwight and Kidd.. so he formed a super-team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning

[scuzzy]

big pip, long whip

unzip, cool whipped
:roll:bars:bowdown:

[3ball]

big pip, long whip

unzip, cool whipped


MJ nearly won title with 90' Pippen, whereas Lebron was destroyed with guys > 90' Pippen


Lost as favorite to 1-star team with:

09' Mo Will...'.... 17.2 PER.. 0.165 WS/48.. 2.3 BPM.. 3.1 VORP
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP


Swept 4-0 to Spurs with:

05' L Hughes.... 21.6 PER.. 0.157 WS/48.. 4.3 BPM.. 3.7 VORP.. 1st team all-def
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP


Lottery with:

05' Zydrunas.... 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. -0.2 BPM.. 1.2 VORP
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48... 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP


Lottery with:

20' Ingram..'..... 18.8 PER.. 0.115 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 2.2 VORP
90' Pippen.....'.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM . 3.0 VORP


^^^ 20' Ingram was used instead of 19' Ingram because Lebron's presence clearly caused a 1-year crater of Ingram's PER, BPM, VORP, and WS/48 in 2019.

Similarly, Lebron cratered Hughes in 06', so Hughes 05' stats were used (his true capability)


CONCLUSION: title




you don't deserve Goat talk. Sorry.





09' Cavs'..... #3 defense... 18 on 38% from Mo... lost to #4 SRS Magic (2 all-stars)
89' Bulls... #11 defense... 15 on 40% from Pip... defeat #1 SRS Cavs' (3 all-stars)


The 89' Cavs also had Ron Harper (20/5/5)

Those Cavs were a better team than lebron ever beat in the East, and MJ beat them with shit from Pippen and a shit team defense..

Ultimately, Lebron shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th quarter against Orlando and lost 3 fourth quarter leads - this included getting destroyed by Dwight in the critical Game 4 OT... Clutch and contested jumpshooting MATTERS.. it decides series

[Stanley Kobrick]

drips from lip

pips miracle whip

[3ball]

.



big pip, long whip

unzip, cool whipped





Remember when Worthy was #1 option on back-to-back champs against goat comp?


PLAYOFFS

* 87' Worthy...... 24 on 59%
* 88' Worthy...... 21 on 53% (FMVP)
* 89' Worthy...... 25 on 57%
* 90' Worthy...... 24 on 53%
* 91' Worthy...... 20 on 49%

* Lakers' scoring leader


Pippen wasn't capable of being a 25-point first option on a champion, or being a better option than Magic or Kareem.

But Worthy was underrated because he shared shine on a super-team with other stars, while Pippen benefitted from being on the only 2-star dynasty - so he gets more credit for winning those rings than Worthy's shared shine, despite playing far worse... :confusedshrug:

Pippen is simply the least star help of any top 10 player.. He's the only player whose career production rate rankings (about 120th) are far lower than his perceived rank (30).. the winning spotlight inflated his accolades, along with his association with the goat.

Ultimately, everyone in history that won more than 2 Finals needed a sidekick to win FMVP or average 25 for at least 1 of the Finals.. But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win rings with Pippen, while Worthy's goat scoring and FMVP caliber was easier to win with

[8Ball]

Jordan cannot win a playoffs series without Pippen.

1-9

[3ball]

1-9


The Cavs won 45 games in 2008 and were nothing until Mo Williams made them a 66-win team and the league favorite in 2009:


09' Mo Will...'.... 17.2 PER.. 0.165 WS/48.. 2.3 BPM.. 3.1 VORP
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP
89' Pippen........ 14.9 PER.. 0.083 WS/48.. 0.4 BPM.. 1.5 VORP
88' Pippen........ 12.9 PER.. 0.066 WS/48.. 0.0 BPM.. 0.6 VORP


09' Cavs'..... #3 defense... 18 on 38% from Mo... lost to #4 SRS Magic (2 all-stars)
89' Bulls... #11 defense... 15 on 40% from Pip... defeat #1 SRS Cavs' (3 all-stars)*

* plus Ron Harper (20/5/5)


The 89' Cavs were a better team than lebron ever beat in the East, and MJ beat them with shit from Pippen and a shit team defense..

Ultimately, Lebron shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th quarter against Orlando and lost 3 fourth quarter leads - this included getting destroyed by Dwight in the critical Game 4 OT... Accordingly, clutch and contested jumpshooting MATTERS.. it decides series and lebron sucks at it

[8Ball]

The Cavs won 45 games in 2008 and were nothing until Mo Williams made them a 66-win team and the league favorite in 2009:


09' Mo Will...'.... 17.2 PER.. 0.165 WS/48.. 2.3 BPM.. 3.1 VORP
90' Pippen........ 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. 1.8 BPM.. 3.0 VORP
89' Pippen........ 14.9 PER.. 0.083 WS/48.. 0.4 BPM.. 1.5 VORP
88' Pippen........ 12.9 PER.. 0.066 WS/48.. 0.0 BPM.. 0.6 VORP


09' Cavs'..... #3 defense... 18 on 38% from Mo... lost to #4 SRS Magic (2 all-stars)
89' Bulls... #11 defense... 15 on 40% from Pip... defeat #1 SRS Cavs' (3 all-stars)*

* plus Ron Harper (20/5/5)


The 89' Cavs were a better team than lebron ever beat in the East, and MJ beat them with shit from Pippen and a shit team defense..

Ultimately, Lebron shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th quarter against Orlando and lost 3 fourth quarter leads - this included getting destroyed by Dwight in the critical Game 4 OT... Accordingly, clutch and contested jumpshooting MATTERS.. it decides series and lebron sucks at it

87 Bulls won 40 games without Scottie Pippen. Jordan was nothing before Pippen showed up

[Hey Yo]

See 2004, 2005 and 2019... He's 0-3

He only made the playoffs with developed, high seeds and can't actually carry bad teams

2014 Cavs..... Lottery team

2015 Cavs..... Finals

[3ball]

2014 Cavs..... Lottery team

2015 Cavs..... Finals


Kevin Love

26/13/4

top 4 PER, BPM, VORP and WS/48

Love was 2nd team all-nba in 2014 and Kyrie was all-star MVP (by comparison, klay wasn't an all-star until 15')..

the Cavs talent made them preseason favorites in 15' and 16.. but a shitty brand of ball made kyrie/love win 50 games while Klay won 73, so the Cavs were big underdogs heading into the Finals

[Hey Yo]

Kevin Love
2015 he wasn't an all-star nor All-NBA player.



2014 Cavs..... Lottery team

2015 Cavs..... Finals


you lose again

[3ball]

2015 he wasn't an all-star nor All-NBA player.



2014 Cavs..... Lottery team

2015 Cavs..... Finals


you lose again


Love wasn't old or hurt in 2015 - lebron simply reduced him.... "Bosh'd" him.

It's a travesty and that's why he went 1/4 with Love instead of having juggernaut 70 win teams and going 4/4

But Love was 2nd team all-nba in 2014 and Kyrie was all-star MVP (by comparison, klay wasn't an all-star until 15')..

the Cavs talent made them preseason favorites in 15' and 16.. but a shitty brand of ball made kyrie/love win 50 games while Klay won 73, so the Cavs were big underdogs heading into the Finals

[Hey Yo]

Love wasn't old or hurt in 2015 - lebron simply reduced him.... "Bosh'd" him.

It's a travesty and that's why he went 1/4 with Love instead of having juggernaut 70 win teams and going 4/4

But Love was 2nd team all-nba in 2014 and Kyrie was all-star MVP (by comparison, klay wasn't an all-star until 15')..

the Cavs talent made them preseason favorites in 15' and 16.. but a shitty brand of ball made kyrie/love win 50 games while Klay won 73, so the Cavs were big underdogs heading into the Finals
Klay was named to the All-Star team and All-NBA in 2015

2015 Klay >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015 Love


2014 Cavs...... Lottery
2015 Cavs...... Finals

you lose again

[clutchinho]

Klay was named to the All-Star team and All-NBA in 2015

2015 Klay >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015 Love


2014 Cavs...... Lottery
2015 Cavs...... Finals

you lose again

Klay is all an-star in the same way Khris Middleton is an all-star. He's Joe Harris with a few more shot attempts

[SouBeachTalents]

Klay is all an-star in the same way Khris Middleton is an all-star. He's Joe Harris with a few more shot attempts
Blasphemy

[tpols]

Blasphemy

Klay is definitely not any better than Kris Middleton. In fact, Middleton on top of being an elite shooter, can actually put the ball on the floor and makes plays.

[999Guy]

Blasphemy

Yeah, no way in hell was Klay on the level of Middleton the past two years.

[Hey Yo]

Klay is all an-star in the same way Khris Middleton is an all-star. He's Joe Harris with a few more shot attempts
Klay is All-NBA and All -Defensive team in the same way that Khris Middleton has never made either.

[tpols]

Klay is All-NBA and All -Defensive team in the same way that Khris Middleton has never made either.

That's because he plays for a dynasty team. Compare their numbers, productions, metrics everything, nothing shows Klay being better than Kris. He's a simple 19-20 PPG 2nd option who can't even pass, dribble or playmake like real all stars ~ Brad Beal types.

[Hey Yo]

That's because he plays for a dynasty team. Compare their numbers, productions, metrics everything, nothing shows Klay being better than Kris. He's a simple 19-20 PPG 2nd option who can't even pass, dribble or playmake like real all stars ~ Brad Beal types.

The Warriors weren't a dynasty in 2015 when he made the All-star team and All-NBA

[RRR3]

Last year Ttrolls said Mo Williams was equivalent to Middleton. Now Middleton is better than Klay Thompson. Imagine being so dumb you can't even keep your agendas straight :lol

[tpols]

The Warriors weren't a dynasty in 2015 when he made the All-star team and All-NBA

They won the most games in the NBA that year. That was the start of their dynasty. Klay is a simple 20 PPG player and man defender, with no playmaking, passing or dribbling prowess. Kris Middleton averages the exact same volume and efficiency in the playoffs at 107 ORTG... but with double / triple the dimes. It's just funny you guys think he's way better... it shows how much the media perception can skew reality and the impact that has on a casual fan's opinion.

[Vino24]

Op also said Kelly Oubre is better than Klay Thompson. So he’s kind of fvcking retarded.

[SouBeachTalents]

They won the most games in the NBA that year. That was the start of their dynasty. Klay is a simple 20 PPG player and man defender, with no playmaking, passing or dribbling prowess. Kris Middleton averages the exact same volume and efficiency in the playoffs at 107 ORTG... but with double / triple the dimes. It's just funny you guys think he's way better... it shows how much the media perception can skew reality and the impact that has on a casual fan's opinion.
Nah, my issue was claiming he's Joe Harris with more shot attempts, that's just disrespectful

[3ball]

Nah, my issue was claiming he's Joe Harris with more shot attempts, that's just disrespectful


He's a pretty pedestrian 2nd option to win 73 games with

You'd think having a prime Wade or AD as a sidekick would yield 70 wins... But instead.. klay did.

"just klay" allowed 70 wins due to brand of ball advantage and Curry's Jordan-like dominance in the new format

[Axe]

Klay is definitely not any better than Kris Middleton. In fact, Middleton on top of being an elite shooter, can actually put the ball on the floor and makes plays.
Both can also defend better than stephen curry