How did MJ win a title with Toni "Dario Saric" Kukoc as his 2nd option in 98

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

How.... 98 playoffs

Kukoc - 13/4/3 on 49/38/65, 56TS in 30 MPG
Pippu - 17/7/5 on 41/24/68, 50TS in 40 MPG

Per 36

Kukoc - 15.5/5/3 on 49/38/65, 56TS
Pippu - 15.2/6.5/5 on 41/24/68, 50TS

ECF in one their few 7 game series of the dynasty and probably their toughest series

Kukoc - 15/4/3 on 51/47/72, 62TS
Pippu - 17/8/5 on 39/20/59, 46TS :biggums:

Finals for all the marbles

Kukoc - 15/5/3, 50/30/62, 56TS on 36.9 MPG
Pippu - 16/7/4, 41/23/82, 50TS on 39.6 MPG

Migraine, Scottie?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bYcjCoy7R4I/hqdefault.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jB64fvG5zdw/hqdefault.jpg

https://media1.tenor.com/images/bcff0899aa2474d4b34f267b1d28ddde/tenor.gif


So MJ created a dynasty with a Philly Andre Iguodala w/o the clutch/big time level play and then 3peated AGAIN with a broken down Philly Iggy and Dario Saric? How great is this man?

[SATAN]

It would be interesting to see Kukoc playing in this era. He was better than you are implying.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

It would be interesting to see Kukoc playing in this era. He was better than you are implying.

Hed be Dario Saric level lettuce be cereal

Good offensive big. Can shoot, drive and attack plodding defensive bigs. Can pass the rock a bit.

Defensively he was mediocre to bad tho.

Theres a reason babyboi only started in 30% of his career games.

[warriorfan]

How.... 98 playoffs

Kukoc - 13/4/3 on 49/38/65, 56TS in 30 MPG
Pippu - 17/7/5 on 41/24/68, 50TS in 40 MPG

Per 36

Kukoc - 15.5/5/3 on 49/38/65, 56TS
Pippu - 15.2/6.5/5 on 41/24/68, 50TS

ECF in one their few 7 game series

Kukoc - 15/4/3 on 51/47/72, 62TS
Pippu - 17/8/5 on 39/2/59, 46TS :biggums:

Finals for all the marbles

Kukoc - 15/5/3, 50/30/62, 56TS on 36.9 MPG
Pippu - 16/7/4, 41/23/82, 50TS on 39.6 MPG

Migraine, Scottie?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bYcjCoy7R4I/hqdefault.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jB64fvG5zdw/hqdefault.jpg

https://media1.tenor.com/images/bcff0899aa2474d4b34f267b1d28ddde/tenor.gif


So MJ created a dynasty with a Philly Andre Iguodala w/o the clutch/big time level play and then 3peated AGAIN with a broken down Philly Iggy and Dario Saric? How great is this man?

:roll:

[3ball]

.
Worthy was #1 option on back-to-back champions:



PLAYOFFS

* 87' Worthy...... 24 on 59%
* 88' Worthy...... 21 on 53% (FMVP)
* 89' Worthy...... 25 on 57%
* 90' Worthy...... 24 on 53%
* 91' Worthy...... 20 on 49%

* Lakers' scoring leader


So Worthy played better than Pippen ever did, but didn't get credit because he shared shine with 3rd and 4th stars on a super-team...

Whereas Pippen was on the only 2-star dynasty, so he got full credit despite never playing on Worthy's level

Obviously, Jordan would've 7-peated with Worthy from. 85-91'

Ultimately, everyone in history that won more than 3 Finals needed a sidekick to win FMVP or average 25 for at least 1 of the Finals.. But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win 3 or 3-peat with Pippen

[Axe]

7-peated? That's a delusional take.

[3ball]

7-peated? That's a delusional take.


Worthy dominated the Pistons and was called the Piston-killer

Jordan easily beats the Pistons with Worthy from 87-90' instead of the 12 on 41% that pippen averaged over that time period vs Pistons in playoffs

Btw, in Worthy's first Playoffs (84'), he completely dominated the Finals (22 on 64%).. he was always playing better than Pippen ever did, but didn't get credit because he shared shine with 3rd and 4th stars on a super-team...

Whereas Pippen was on the only 2-star dynasty, so he got full credit despite never playing on Worthy's level

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

.
Worthy was #1 option on back-to-back champions:



PLAYOFFS

* 87' Worthy...... 24 on 59%
* 88' Worthy...... 21 on 53% (FMVP)
* 89' Worthy...... 25 on 57%
* 90' Worthy...... 24 on 53%
* 91' Worthy...... 20 on 49%

* Lakers' scoring leader


So Worthy played better than Pippen ever did, but didn't get credit because he shared shine with 3rd and 4th stars on a super-team...

Whereas Pippen was on the only 2-star dynasty, so he got full credit despite never playing on Worthy's level

Obviously, Jordan would've 7-peated with Worthy from. 85-91'

Ultimately, everyone in history that won more than 3 Finals needed a sidekick to win FMVP or average 25 for at least 1 of the Finals.. But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win 3 or 3-peat with Pippen

Pippu is a career 17.5 PPG on 51TS playoff scorer......Thats horrible production.

And he wasnt even a better passer or defender than MJ either.

He had the ball more in the triangle since MJ was one of the GOAT off ball players but Pippu sucked off ball b/c he couldnt shoot and wasnt a big cutting threat in the halfcourt either

Babyboi thrived in transition.

Put 07-14 Iggy in place of 91-98 Pippu

does anything change? Iggy might still a FMVP since we know hes capable of stepping up in the biggest moments and making clutch plays on both ends instead of Pippu

https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=23716766

Pippu and Iggy find their games very similar. "It's like looking at a mirror"

Kerr who played or coached both said the same too.

[3ball]

Pippen had the ball more in the triangle





Jordan can't assist on his own shots

So even though there were much less available shots for him to assist on, he still averaged the same assists as Pippen and therefore had much higher assist PERCENTAGE - Jordan's assist percentage was literally 33% higher than Pippen's in the Playoffs, so Jordan was assisting 33% more often

So in addition to having goat shooting volume (goat usage), Jordan averaged more assists and assisted 33% more often than Pippen.

In other words, Pippen rarely had the ball compared to Jordan - watch any Bulls game for 2 minutes and it's Jordan with the ball all the time, and assisting far more often..

and yeah, he still played off-ball a lot as well (he was a big assist target).. ultimately, no one created more points than Jordan - either scoring himself, getting an assist, or being an assist target (off-ball)

[ShawkFactory]

So we'll just gloss over the fact that Kukoc was better at every aspect of basketball than Saric, the reason why the Bulls won with him as the second option (really 3rd option) is because the Jazz 2nd option averaged 10.7 ppg on .501 TS.

In fact:

Bulls 2nd and 3rd options combined: 30.9 ppg, .530 TS, 106 ORTG, 98.5 DRTG, 12.7 TOV%, 12.25 avg game score

Jazz 2nd and 3rd options combined: 20.4 ppg, .520 TS, 99.5 ORTG, 106 DRTG, 19.9 TOV%, 8.05 avg game score


Really that simple :confusedshrug:

[zeerghit]

Rodman was 98 FMVP
EDIT i MEAN 96

[ralph_i_el]

I don't get how shitting on MJ's teammates helps MJ's GOAT case. Pippin and Kukoc were considered top players...so if they were shit...the league was shit...so his titles aren't impressive. Weak expansion league :confusedshrug:

[AirBonner]

It helps when you got teammates like Rodman getting FMVP votes on his defense and rebounding alone but that side of basketball doesn’t exist in this narrative

[light]

Toni is probably going to end up in the hall of fame at some point.

The dude was so good that Phil Jackson would draw up game winning shots for Kukoc over Jordan. True story. When PJ did that to Pippen, Pip wasn't having it. Jordan also wasn't having it and killed that play.

What a great teammate.

[Manny98]

Did this dude really just compare Toni Kukoc to Dario Saric :oldlol:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Did this dude really just compare Toni Kukoc to Dario Saric :oldlol:

Kukoc career stats

12/4/4 on 45/33/73, 53TS

Saric career stats

12/6/2 on 44/36/84, 56TS

Their style of play is very similar too on both ends

[TheGoatest]

Still:

Dario Saric > Austin Croshere (2013 playoffs Chris Bosh)
Dario Saric > Tony Delk (2013 playoffs Dwyane Wade)

And on top of that Jordan had Luc "Kareem Abdul-Jabbar" Longley, compared to Chris "Keith Closs" Andersen, and Jordan also had Ron "Julius Erving" Harper.

So to sum it up, Jordan's supporting cast in 1998:

Dario Saric
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Julius Erving

LeBron's supporting cast in 2013:

Austin Croshere
Tony Delk
Keith Closs

Jordan had a way better supporting cast, and it's not even remotely close.

[ralph_i_el]

Kukoc career stats

12/4/4 on 45/33/73, 53TS

Saric career stats

12/6/2 on 44/36/84, 56TS

Their style of play is very similar too on both ends

Kukoc rocked a 2x higher ast% then Saric does. Basically he was twice as likely to get an assist compared to Saric, but their career turnover% are 14% (Kukoc) compared to 13.3% for Saric.

[light]

1996 Chicago Bulls

Jordan: 1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defensive
Pippen: 1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defensive
Rodman: 1st Team All-Defensive
Kukoc: Sixth Man of the Year
Jackson: Coach of the Year
Krause: Executive of the Year

In the wings:

Ron Harper - highly respected vet started 80 games for this team
Steve Kerr - all-time 3pt% leader

That is an obnoxious amount of help for Michael Jordan.

The 1996 Bulls was by far the most loaded superteam team of the 1990's and no one else comes close.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Did this dude really just compare Toni Kukoc to Dario Saric :oldlol:

He does remind me of Saric actually, his twin. It was the first comp i thought for Kukoc when comparing him to a guy today.

[AirBonner]

MJ was a smaller less defensive Kawhi

[Manny98]

Kukoc career stats

12/4/4 on 45/33/73, 53TS

Saric career stats

12/6/2 on 44/36/84, 56TS

Their style of play is very similar too on both ends
Tim Duncan's career stats

19/11/3 55TS

Demarcus Cousins career stats

21/11/4 54TS


Yep it's decided Cousins => Tim Duncan :hammerhead:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Tim Duncan's career stats

19/11/3 55TS

Demarcus Cousins career stats

21/11/4 54TS


Yep it's decided Cousins => Tim Duncan :hammerhead:

Except Duncan is one of the greatest defenders of all time while Cousins was ass an defender

nice try

Kukoc/Saric are both ass on defense:applause:

[HoopsNY]

1996 Chicago Bulls

Jordan: 1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defensive
Pippen: 1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defensive
Rodman: 1st Team All-Defensive
Kukoc: Sixth Man of the Year
Jackson: Coach of the Year
Krause: Executive of the Year

In the wings:

Ron Harper - highly respected vet started 80 games for this team
Steve Kerr - all-time 3pt% leader

That is an obnoxious amount of help for Michael Jordan.

The 1996 Bulls was by far the most loaded superteam team of the 1990's and no one else comes close.

New arbitrary rules for what a "superteam" is now, huh? So Philly in 2001 had:

Iverson: All-NBA 1st Team/MVP
Mutombo: All-NBA 2nd Team/All-Defensive 1st Team/Defensive Player of the Year
Larry Brown: Coach of the Year
Aaron McKie: 6th Man of the Year

Waiting in the Wings:

Tyrone Hill: Solid defensive veteran and role player (More PPG, Rebs, higher FG% than Harper)
Eric Snow: Good defensive PG averaging 7.5 assists a game

Obviously this is exaggerated but since when was there a widespread idea that the 1996 Bulls were a superteam?

[Manny98]

Except Duncan is one of the greatest defenders of all time while Cousins was ass an defender

nice try

Kukoc/Saric are both ass on defense:applause:

So Cousins > Duncan on offense according to your logic