Right now is the MVP Gobert or Mitchell?

[DoctorP]

As of the break, Jazz are the best team with the best record. Who should the mvp be, Gobert or Mitchell?

No Lebron talk please.

[light]

It's definitely LeBron.

Gobert has Mitchell and Mitchell has Gobert. LeBron has Kyle Kuzma. End of story.

[DoctorP]

It's definitely LeBron.

Gobert has Mitchell and Mitchell has Gobert. LeBron has Kyle Kuzma. End of story.

Please don't be a cheerleader for your favorite player and give me a rational answer between Gobert or Mitchell. Should they be co-mvps?

[Smoke117]

Gobert. You could also argue Mike Conley has had a bigger impact than Mitchell in the same way Chris Paul has a bigger impact than Booker.

[DoctorP]

Gobert. You could also argue Mike Conley has had a bigger impact offensively than Mitchell in the same way Chris Paul has a bigger impact than Booker.

Interesting, yet they kept winning without Conley. Would they win without either Gobert or Mitchell?

[light]

Please don't be a cheerleader for your favorite player and give me a rational answer between Gobert or Mitchell. Should they be co-mvps?

Include Jordan Clarkson while you're at it.

That's why nobody on the Jazz is going to win MVP. Too many contributors.

Out of the top teams LeBron is the only one playing without a partner and the Lakers still have the 2nd best record in the NBA.

For now, the MVP is still LeBron's. He's carrying the heaviest load.

[Smoke117]

Interesting, yet they kept winning without Conley. Would they win without either Gobert or Mitchell?

They'd be worse off without Rudy. They are 2nd in defense and he's obviously the biggest reason for that. He leads the league in drating.

[light]

They'd be worse off without Rudy. They are 2nd in defense and he's obviously the biggest reason for that. He leads the league in drating.

And LeBron leads the league in RPM.

Mitchell is 21st and Gobert is 24th. Conley actually leads the Jazz in RPM. He's 7th. Clarkson is 38th and he's probably going to win Sixth Man of the Year.

There is no single MVP on the Jazz. It's not happening. No one player is doing enough. It is a collective effort.

[DoctorP]

They'd be worse off without Rudy. They are 2nd in defense and he's obviously the biggest reason for that. He leads the league in drating.

I agree. The thing is, take their scorers out and Gobert can't win you a game by himself. He's the main cog in the machine but won't get you over the hump.

Jazz will have to win the RS by a large margin for Gobert to get mvp but it isn't out of the realm of possibility. Modern day Bill Russell situation.

[DoctorP]

And LeBron leads the league in RPM.

Mitchell is 21st and Gobert is 24th. Conley actually leads the Jazz in RPM. He's 7th. Clarkson is 38th and he's probably going to win Sixth Man of the Year.

There is no single MVP on the Jazz. It's not happening. No one player is doing enough. It is a collective effort.

Please go away.

[light]

Please go away.

Will do.

Last thing I want to be is an annoying blabbermouth. Nothing grinds my gears worse than some chowderhead who can't keep his trap shut. Catch me running off at the mouth, give me a poke.

[DoctorP]

Will do.

Last thing I want to be is an annoying blabbermouth. Nothing grinds my gears worse than some chowderhead who can't keep his trap shut. Catch me running off at the mouth, give me a poke.

you didn't follow the rules, man. Jeezus fn christ. no fun.

I'm not going to respect your answers, man

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert. You could also argue Mike Conley has had a bigger impact than Mitchell in the same way Chris Paul has a bigger impact than Booker.

There's no argument for Mitchell. Certainly an argument for Conley but they still won without him. I can't imagine them doing that without Gobert for an extended period

[Xiao Yao You]

Interesting, yet they kept winning without Conley. Would they win without either Gobert or Mitchell?

They won without Mitchell too. They looked worse without Mike

[Xiao Yao You]

I agree. The thing is, take their scorers out and Gobert can't win you a game by himself. He's the main cog in the machine but won't get you over the hump.

Jazz will have to win the RS by a large margin for Gobert to get mvp but it isn't out of the realm of possibility. Modern day Bill Russell situation.

actually he can. He's done it

[light]

you didn't follow the rules, man. Jeezus fn christ. no fun.

I'm not going to respect your answers, man

Totally fine man. I didn't realize you were seriously serious. I'm audi 5k.

[DoctorP]

Totally fine man. I didn't realize you were seriously serious. I'm audi 5k.

i wouldnt have wasted my time writing it. we're sick of hearing it, man. broken fn record. we're trying to talk about the game. some of us here play it and like it.

thanks.

[Kblaze8855]

Young Mutombo or Steve Francis if you couldnt touch him and spread the floor with 3 or more quality shooters much of the game?

Neither guy worth talking about in an MVP context any more than the Pistons, Hawks, or mid 2010 Spurs who all had the best records at times midseason. Hawks were on I think a 68 win pace at one point and the other 2 actually won rings. Still dont get MVPs for ensemble casts doing well with nobody doing numbers that stand out. There are 3-4 times per era like this. Not a single one had anyone get an MVP. Im talking Badboy pistons and the 80s Bucks....Bullets and Sonics who actually won titles. Not the Blazers who were like 7 deep and going to multiple finals with Drexler or the even deeper ones that should have beat Shaq and Kobe. Not the Kings in the early 2000s even though they had a superstar in Webber. Not the Sonics with GP, Kemp, and Detlef winning 60+ games several times. Not the Raptors pre Leonard who won 59 games.

Either you have the man or you dont. Nobody on the Jazz is the man.

60 wins....plus the man. The man might win MVP off record.

60 wins with a squad of high end other guys gets you "Yea I remember them. They were good that year...." but nobody gets any kind of MVP talk.

The 04 Pistons absolutely won with defense. Holding teams to 60 points now and then. Ben Wallace was 7th in MVP voting getting about a tenth of Pejas votes. In 06 when they won 64 games he wasnt even top 10 though Billups managed 5th.

These kinda teams dont produce MVPS.

The might need 75 wins with nobody else doing 60.

[DoctorP]

Young Mutombo or Steve Francis if you couldnt touch him and spread the floor with 3 or more quality shooters much of the game?

Neither guy worth talking about in an MVP context any more than the Pistons, Hawks, or mid 2010 Spurs who all had the best records at times midseason. Hawks were on I think a 68 win pace at one point and the other 2 actually won rings. Still dont get MVPs for ensemble casts doing well with nobody doing numbers that stand out. There are 3-4 times per era like this. Not a single one had anyone get an MVP. Im talking Badboy pistons and the 80s Bucks....Bullets and Sonics who actually won titles. Not the Blazers who were like 7 deep and going to multiple finals with Drexler or the even deeper ones that should have beat Shaq and Kobe. Not the Kings in the early 2000s even though they had a superstar in Webber. Not the Sonics with GP, Kemp, and Detlef winning 60+ games several times. Not the Raptors pre Leonard who won 59 games.

Either you have the man or you dont. Nobody on the Jazz is the man.

60 wins....plus the man. The man might win MVP off record.

60 wins with a squad of high end other guys gets you "Yea I remember them. They were good that year...." but nobody gets any kind of MVP talk.

OK, so you are saying that the golden age Celtics situation in the modern era would not net Russell any MVP's? Or do you think that none of those team-oriented squads you mentioned are good enough to be compared to those Celtics teams?

Can't say I disagree with your angle. To me it depends on how dominant the Jazz end up being. If they start becoming unbeatable I think Gobert has a case just like Billups had a case in Detroit. That loss to the Clippers this past week by the Jazz is evidence to your reasoning.

[Smoke117]

Oh I thought you meant MVP of the team...obviously neither is an actual league MVP candidate.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Gobert. You could also argue Mike Conley has had a bigger impact than Mitchell in the same way Chris Paul has a bigger impact than Booker.

RPM

Conley - 5.52
Rudy - 3.75
Mitchell - 3.72

What makes Rudy over Conley babyboi? Dont you love RPM? Hes higher in BPM too.

[DoctorP]

Oh I thought you meant MVP of the team...obviously neither is an actual league MVP candidate.

Either. I'm curious to consider one before considering the other.

[Kblaze8855]

OK, so you are saying that the golden age Celtics situation in the modern era would not net Russell any MVP's? Or do you think that none of those team-oriented squads you mentioned are good enough to be compared to those Celtics teams?

Can't say I disagree with your angle. To me it depends on how dominant the Jazz end up being. If they start becoming unbeatable I think Gobert has a case just like Billups had a case in Detroit. That loss to the Clippers this past week by the Jazz is evidence to your reasoning.

I feel scummy just reading Bill Russells name in even a loose situational comparison to anyone on the Jazz. I like a lot of people on the Jazz. But we are talking Bill Russell. Bill Russell was carved from a block of pure victory mined deep in the caves under Mount Glory. People who think he was winning off his cast more than they were winning off him just never looked into his life. It was obviously a great team...but you wouldnt know half their names if they were on the Pistons. Russell was Gobert if he could play 4-5 positions, be top 5 in assists, drop 30 point game 7s, guard the entire NBA guards and bigs alike, make multiple game winners in the playoffs himself, have the mind to think the game like Bird and have the athletic ability to be an olympic level high jumper in his part time.....and coach his own team to multiple titles. After winning 55 games in a row with back to back titles in college at a school never heard from again.....and the olympic gold by the widest margin ever until the Dream team.

For any number of reasons no.....I dont consider Rudy or Donovan Mitchell to be in modern Bill Russell situations.

[DoctorP]

I feel scummy just reading Bill Russells name in even a loose situational comparison to anyone on the Jazz. I like a lot of people on the Jazz. But we are talking Bill Russell. Bill Russell was carved from a block of pure victory mined deep in the caves under Mount Glory. People who think he was winning off his cast more than they were winning off him just never looked into his life. It was obviously a great team...but you wouldnt know half their names if they were on the Pistons. Russell was Gobert if he could play 4-5 positions, be top 5 in assists, drop 30 point game 7s, guard the entire NBA guards and bigs alike, make multiple game winners in the playoffs himself, have the mind to think the game like Bird and have the athletic ability to be an olympic level high jumper in his part time.....and coach his own team to multiple titles. After winning 55 games in a row with back to back titles in college at a school never heard from again.....and the olympic gold by the widest margin ever until the Dream team.

For any number of reasons no.....I dont consider Rudy or Donovan Mitchell to be in modern Bill Russell situations.

Yeah, but Russell played in a weaker era. A man amongst boys. That said, it's true if Gobert could drop 30 point games and game winners he would clearly be the man and an MVP candidate.

I wouldn't ever compare Mitchell to Russell, that's just silly.

[Kblaze8855]

A lot of the teams losing back then had people who were considered men among boys. Wilt, Thurmond, Gus Johnson, Bellamy, Elvin Hayes, Baylor, and so on. Russell won many many many razor thin series vs those types and didnt do it off being more physically imposing.

People really have a misconception about the talent on teams in that era. People mention his HOF teammates like 7/5 KC Jones would be in the hall if he didnt win 10 rings with Russell between college and the NBA. All the teams then had talent because of fewer teams. Oscar one year had a team with 2 top 50 players backed by 2 5 time all stars and one one time all star. The team they got beat by in the playoffs had 6 all stars 3 of them hall of famers. And it wasnt the Celtics either.

All those teams were loaded. But they didnt all have Bill Russell. His era would be more respected if he lost more often so some of those other superteams got respect.

[Xiao Yao You]

I feel scummy just reading Bill Russells name in even a loose situational comparison to anyone on the Jazz. I like a lot of people on the Jazz. But we are talking Bill Russell. Bill Russell was carved from a block of pure victory mined deep in the caves under Mount Glory. People who think he was winning off his cast more than they were winning off him just never looked into his life. It was obviously a great team...but you wouldnt know half their names if they were on the Pistons. Russell was Gobert if he could play 4-5 positions, be top 5 in assists, drop 30 point game 7s, guard the entire NBA guards and bigs alike, make multiple game winners in the playoffs himself, have the mind to think the game like Bird and have the athletic ability to be an olympic level high jumper in his part time.....and coach his own team to multiple titles. After winning 55 games in a row with back to back titles in college at a school never heard from again.....and the olympic gold by the widest margin ever until the Dream team.

For any number of reasons no.....I dont consider Rudy or Donovan Mitchell to be in modern Bill Russell situations.

I watched Cousy's final game last year and the way the Celtics were built around Russell was similar to the Jazz around Gobert. Lakers wouldn't come near him in the paint so he had to come out in the mid range to block shots. With no 3 point line he had a lot less floor to cover than Gobert does. Not sure why the Lakers didn't run any pick and roll against him? Their half court offense was built around Russell high screens though again with no 3 point line not as high. He didn't roll to the rim like Gobert and had some ugly post up hooks. Not too hard to imagine their rolls being switched

[iamgine]

Bill Russell was a lot more dominant vs his peers than Gobert is. But he's certainly not better as a basketball player. Or at least not much better. Gobert would utterly destroy the league if he timetravelled and play in the 60s. If he could stand the racism, flat shoes and bus travels that is.

[Akeem34TheDream]

I watched Cousy's final game last year and the way the Celtics were built around Russell was similar to the Jazz around Gobert. Lakers wouldn't come near him in the paint so he had to come out in the mid range to block shots. With no 3 point line he had a lot less floor to cover than Gobert does. Not sure why the Lakers didn't run any pick and roll against him? Their half court offense was built around Russell high screens though again with no 3 point line not as high. He didn't roll to the rim like Gobert and had some ugly post up hooks. Not too hard to imagine their rolls being switched

:roll:

[DoctorP]

actually he can. He's done it

I know you've been keeping up with them. Any games you can post from youtube where Gobert has done what you're claiming?

[Xiao Yao You]

I know you've been keeping up with them. Any games you can post from youtube where Gobert has done what you're claiming?

Before the past two seasons they were winning with defense so anywhere in the past 6 years really. Hayward was no great scorer and Mitchell certainly hasn't been an efficient one. They had mediocre offenses at best. Very flawed rosters around him before this season where their lack of a PF will be their downfall eventually

[Kblaze8855]

Bill Russell was a lot more dominant vs his peers than Gobert is. But he's certainly not better as a basketball player. Or at least not much better. Gobert would utterly destroy the league if he timetravelled and play in the 60s. If he could stand the racism, flat shoes and bus travels that is.

I always wonder what people think modern guys are gonna do back then to win when guys who could drop 70 at will were still losing.

Lets say Rudy averages 28/25 and has 50 a few times per season.

Elgin Baylor did like 38/19 and lost anyway. 60 point games in finals he lost.

Wilt was bigger and more athletic than Gobert....led the league in assists....had 4-5 hall of famers with him at times....Celtics win the title anyway.

Whats Goberts 25 rebounds a night gonna do that Bellamys 30/20 didn’t? Bellamy had games of 45/18 on 76% shooting. Lost.

What are these guys gonna do?

All the super humans in the 60s were still losing. He better take someone with him.

One modern guy wouldn’t make a team unbeatable.

[iamgine]

Gobert is called The Stifle Tower. He would truly live up to that nickname in the 60s. 10 blocks a game won't be unreasonable.

Also, no one said 1 modern guy make a team unbeatable.

[Kblaze8855]

Some people were blocking 8-10 shots a game then. In the 112 games we have record of wilts blocks he averaged 8.8 a game and almost none of those are early career when he was more athletic.

He probably blocked 10 a game to go with his like 35/25 the year his team missed the playoffs.

Guys moving back then would produce more off sheer volume especially bigs because teams played around the rim and bigs got the ball even if they sucked with it. But that wouldn’t make it effective enough to turn the tables against the likes of the Celtics.

Wilt showed that one guy couldn’t do it no matter how productive. In all likelihood Rudy in 1964 is just another super productive big losing to the Celtics who modern fans would say Rudy would destroy.

[RRR3]

Some people were blocking 8-10 shots a game then. In the 112 games we have record of wilts blocks he averaged 8.8 a game and almost none of those are early career when he was more athletic.

He probably blocked 10 a game to go with his like 35/25 the year his team missed the playoffs.

Guys moving back then would produce more off sheer volume especially bigs because teams played around the rim and bigs got the ball even if they sucked with it. But that wouldn’t make it effective enough to turn the tables against the likes of the Celtics.

Wilt showed that one guy couldn’t do it no matter how productive. In all likelihood Rudy in 1964 is just another super productive big losing to the Celtics who modern fans would say Rudy would destroy.
But Xiao told me Rudy could replace Russell and the results would be similar. Seriously he said it on page 2.

[hold this L]

But Xiao told me Rudy could replace Russell and the results would be similar. Seriously he said it on page 2.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FastDisloyalKilldeer-small.gif

I love ish

[HBK_Kliq_2]

mvp of this jazz team, its hard to say really. They are like the 2004 pistons. Billups was seen as the MVP of that team but you can argue Hamilton or Rasheed as well. I would say just based on impact, its between Conley and Gobert.

Playmaker and shooter - Conley
Scorer - Mitchell and bogi
Defensive anchor- Gobert
6th man - Clarkson

That's just a well balanced team, there's not really an mvp that sticks out.

[iamgine]

If we look at game footages from the 60s, we would see that Gobert would utterly destroy that league.

Again, not saying 1 modern guy make a team unbeatable.

[tpols]

If we look at game footages from the 60s, we would see that Gobert would utterly destroy that league.

Again, not saying 1 modern guy make a team unbeatable.

Today's centers suck by comparison so I don't know what you're going on about mate. Russell had to face Wilt over and over. There's no center in the league today remotely close to as good as Wilt Chamberlain. You'd have a point with some of the guards, but not the big guys. Rudy Gobert can't even play in the post lmao.

[hold this L]

mvp of this jazz team, its hard to say really. They are like the 2004 pistons. Billups was seen as the MVP of that team but you can argue Hamilton or Rasheed as well. I would say just based on impact, its between Conley and Gobert.

Playmaker and shooter - Conley
Scorer - Mitchell and bogi
Defensive anchor- Gobert
6th man - Clarkson

That's just a well balanced team, there's not really an mvp that sticks out.

Ben Wallace was the MVP. The leader of their defense, which was how they were a dominant team.

[RRR3]

If we look at game footages from the 60s, we would see that Gobert would utterly destroy that league.

Again, not saying 1 modern guy make a team unbeatable.
If he was used correctly, he’d do great. If Gobert grew up back then they’d probably have him posting up and taking running hook shots and stuff so his efficiency would be awful. Bill Russell was by all accounts a great athlete. There was no reason for him not to be efficient (he was efficient enough for his time but I meant no reason for him not to have more modern efficiency) besides the fact that they weren't using him correctly (i.e. lobs).

[iamgine]

If he was used correctly, he’d do great. If Gobert grew up back then they’d probably have him posting up and taking running hook shots and stuff so his efficiency would be awful. Bill Russell was by all accounts a great athlete. There was no reason for him not to be efficient (he was efficient enough for his time but I meant no reason for him not to have more modern efficiency) besides the fact that they weren't using him correctly (i.e. lobs).
Agree, that's why I said timetraveled.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Ben Wallace was the MVP. The leader of their defense, which was how they were a dominant team.

Big Ben was also 7th in MVP voting that season and no other Piston got votes. That alone doesnt mean he was their best overall player but then him and KG were the best playoff performers that year too

Speaking of, I just realized Duncan didnt get a single 1st place vote for MVP but bum ass Jermaine getting 2 and Peja getting 1 prevented a unanimous for KG

[k0kakw0rld]

Donovan Mitchell

[Xiao Yao You]

mvp of this jazz team, its hard to say really. They are like the 2004 pistons. Billups was seen as the MVP of that team but you can argue Hamilton or Rasheed as well. I would say just based on impact, its between Conley and Gobert.

Playmaker and shooter - Conley
Scorer - Mitchell and bogi
Defensive anchor- Gobert
6th man - Clarkson

That's just a well balanced team, there's not really an mvp that sticks out.

Let's not bring Bojan in to this. Winning despite him

[Xiao Yao You]

Today's centers suck by comparison so I don't know what you're going on about mate. Russell had to face Wilt over and over. There's no center in the league today remotely close to as good as Wilt Chamberlain. You'd have a point with some of the guards, but not the big guys. Rudy Gobert can't even play in the post lmao.

Russell couldn't play in the post

[RRR3]

Russell couldn't play in the post
He could pass and guard perimeter players tho.

[Xiao Yao You]

He could pass and guard perimeter players tho.

as can Gobert

[RRR3]

as can Gobert
I’m going to let KBlaze handle this one. I’m beyond sick of your dicksucking of Gobert.

[Xiao Yao You]

I’m going to let KBlaze handle this one. I’m beyond sick of your dicksucking of Gobert.

so sick that you'll follow me from folder to folder to let me know. See you tonite in the game thread! :cheers:

[Tycriss]

"LEBRON" said Gobert :

https://i.postimg.cc/Bn3pRVkm/gobert-2.png

[RRR3]

"LEBRON" said Gobert :

https://i.postimg.cc/Bn3pRVkm/gobert-2.png
Where the hell do you find that?

[Tycriss]

Where the hell do you find that?

https://www.bball-index.com/

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

https://www.bball-index.com/

Luck-adjusted player Estimate using a Box prior Regularized ON-off (LEBRON)

Thats not how acronyms work :roll:

These cacs are becoming a parody of themselves at this point :oldlol:

[Thenameless]

as can Gobert

Bill Russell won 11 Championships. Gobert will likely end with zero to two at most, with zero being the most likely number.

[Kblaze8855]

as can Gobert

Hes a DPOY I’ve seen pulled for what appeared to be defensive reasons and in the game you referenced earlier that you watched? Russell had more assists that game than Goberts career high. And that’s with 60s rules that didn’t award one of the player dribbled or made any kinda fake after the pass.

Bill was one of the best passers in the nba both halfcourt and outlet. Rudy is....acceptable. But he’d never be trusted to do half what Russell did on offense.

[3ball]

Gobert would be the 1st MVP in 3-pointer basketball history that isn't a dominant offensive player, thus giving more credibility to Russell in today's era, and therefore bumping him up the all-time rankings into the top 5

[tpols]

Russell couldn't play in the post

Yea but he could pass very well. Plus, Russell was an Olympic athlete.


As Russell pointed out in his tweet, he was a standout track and field athlete, particularly in the high jump. In his graduation year in 1956, Russell was ranked as the 7th best high-jumper in the world. One of his highest jumps occurred at the West Coast Relays, where he achieved a mark of 6 feet 9 1⁄4 inches (2.06 m). At the meet, Russell tied Charlie Dumas, who would later in the year both win gold in the Melbourne Olympics for the United States and become the first human to high-jump 7 feet (2.13 m).

I'm sorry, if he could take Wilt, he'd kill your boy Rudy, whose nowhere close to as athletic as Bill Russell was.

[fsvr54]

Jokic or Kawhi

[Xiao Yao You]

Yea but he could pass very well. Plus, Russell was an Olympic athlete.



I'm sorry, if he could take Wilt, he'd kill your boy Rudy, whose nowhere close to as athletic as Bill Russell was.

Gobert has been an olympic athlete

[Smoke117]

Big Ben was also 7th in MVP voting that season and no other Piston got votes. That alone doesnt mean he was their best overall player but then him and KG were the best playoff performers that year too

Speaking of, I just realized Duncan didnt get a single 1st place vote for MVP but bum ass Jermaine getting 2 and Peja getting 1 prevented a unanimous for KG

Voter fatigue. Duncan had just won back to back MVP's.

[tpols]

Gobert has been an olympic athlete

In basketball... so was Russell. lmao... he was never a track and feild star. He's too goofy and gangly for that. The fact that Russell had Olympic track coordination and ability puts Rudy's athleticism to shame.

[Xiao Yao You]

In basketball... so was Russell. lmao... he was never a track and feild star. He's too goofy and gangly for that. The fact that Russell had Olympic track coordination and ability puts Rudy's athleticism to shame.

And yet his team goes around his screens like Russell's team did. Players won't go in the paint because of him like Russell. He dominates the glass like Russell. Not hard to imagine either of them playing in the others era unlike many players who can't shoot or defend enough for today's game or are too big of *****'s or not smart enough to play in another era

[RRR3]

Hes a DPOY I’ve seen pulled for what appeared to be defensive reasons and in the game you referenced earlier that you watched? Russell had more assists that game than Goberts career high. And that’s with 60s rules that didn’t award one of the player dribbled or made any kinda fake after the pass.

Bill was one of the best passers in the nba both halfcourt and outlet. Rudy is....acceptable. But he’d never be trusted to do half what Russell did on offense.
Xiao avoiding this like the PLAGUE :roll:

Petrified to get in an argument with Kblaze and have Toody get exposed.

[Xiao Yao You]

Xiao avoiding this like the PLAGUE :roll:

Petrified to get in an argument with Kblaze and have Toody get exposed.

I thought you were sick of me? You lasted less than 4 hours

[RRR3]

I thought you were sick of me? You lasted less than 4 hours
I’m going to call out your trolling if you refuse to stop. You never respond to well thought out posts like Kblazes that contradict your troll narratives. Because you can’t think of a legitimate response. It’s embarrassing. Rudy is a goddamn scrub compared to Bill Russell and you know it. Lmao at saying Rudy is a good passer. They never run the offense through him. If you want me to take you seriously maybe respond to people when they counter your points and don’t just tuck your tail between your legs and hide when people bring up Rudy’s flaws, especially in comparison to a legend.

[Xiao Yao You]

I’m going to call out your trolling if you refuse to stop. You never respond to well thought out posts like Kblazes that contradict your troll narratives. Because you can’t think of a legitimate response. It’s embarrassing. Rudy is a goddamn scrub compared to Bill Russell and you know it. Lmao at saying Rudy is a good passer. They never run the offense through him. If you want me to take you seriously maybe respond to people when they counter your points and don’t just tuck your tail between your legs and hide when people bring up Rudy’s flaws, especially in comparison to a legend.

what is there to respond to? I gave my view. He gave his. You trolled. Gobert is the catalyst of the offense. Scrub or not it's easy to imagine Gobert on those Celtics teams or Russell on the Jazz now

[RRR3]

what is there to respond to? I gave my view. He gave his. You trolled. Gobert is the catalyst of the offense. Scrub or not it's easy to imagine Gobert on those Celtics teams or Russell on the Jazz now
How is Gobert the catalyst of the offense when they never run it through him? :wtf: That doesn’t make any sense. He can’t create for himself or others that makes it impossible for him to be the catalyst. If we’re comparing him to Bill Russell it’s also worth noting he got subbed out for defensive purposes like Blaze said which wouldn’t happen to Russell. And yeah I can easily imagine Wilt annihilating Rudy too. Celtics wouldn’t win shit with him in Russel’s place.

[Xiao Yao You]

How is Gobert the catalyst of the offense when they never run it through him? :wtf: That doesn’t make any sense. He can’t create for himself or others that makes it impossible for him to be the catalyst. If we’re comparing him to Bill Russell it’s also worth noting he got subbed out for defensive purposes like Blaze said which wouldn’t happen to Russell. And yeah I can easily imagine Wilt annihilating Rudy too. Celtics wouldn’t win shit with him in Russel’s place.

you'd have to ask Snyder. His words not mine. Their offense when they aren't throwing up a quick 3 like they are this year starts with his screens. Without them and his pressure at the rim rolling and hitting the offensive glass it doesn't work.

We don't really know what would happen to Russell in today's game though do we? The game I mentioned the Lakers didn't run any pick and roll on him. He had to come out to the mid range to defend them not to the 3 point line. I never mentioned winning.

[Manny98]

I watched Cousy's final game last year and the way the Celtics were built around Russell was similar to the Jazz around Gobert. Lakers wouldn't come near him in the paint so he had to come out in the mid range to block shots. With no 3 point line he had a lot less floor to cover than Gobert does. Not sure why the Lakers didn't run any pick and roll against him? Their half court offense was built around Russell high screens though again with no 3 point line not as high. He didn't roll to the rim like Gobert and had some ugly post up hooks. Not too hard to imagine their rolls being switched

as can Gobert

:roll::roll::roll::roll:

[RRR3]

you'd have to ask Snyder. His words not mine. Their offense when they aren't throwing up a quick 3 like they are this year starts with his screens. Without them and his pressure at the rim rolling and hitting the offensive glass it doesn't work.

We don't really know what would happen to Russell in today's game though do we? The game I mentioned the Lakers didn't run any pick and roll on him. He had to come out to the mid range to defend them not to the 3 point line. I never mentioned winning.
Snyder was probably talking up his best player to motivate him. Coaches do it all the time. Someone who never initiates the offense or creates their own offense cannot be the catalyst of an offense by definition. Rudy is good at finishing lobs, but those lobs are set up by the guards so he’s not even the catalyst for his own buckets. This is basic basketball. I’m not saying he isn’t a great player I’m just saying he isn’t an offensive catalyst. I’ve given you multiple impact stats that show he’s relatively neutral offensively.

[RRR3]

:roll::roll::roll::roll:
He probably thinks Rudy could outplay peak Shaq tbh. Xiao’s desire for Rudy’s man meat knows no limits.

[Xiao Yao You]

Snyder was probably talking up his best player to motivate him. Coaches do it all the time. Someone who never initiates the offense or creates their own offense cannot be the catalyst of an offense by definition. Rudy is good at finishing lobs, but those lobs are set up by the guards so he’s not even the catalyst for his own buckets. This is basic basketball. I’m not saying he isn’t a great player I’m just saying he isn’t an offensive catalyst. I’ve given you multiple impact stats that show he’s relatively neutral offensively.

takes 2 to lob. He can go up and get the ball above everyone so you could say he sets up the lob. You've given many stats but they aren't a top 5 offense with him being neutral. Elite screener, roller and offensive rebounder.

[Manny98]

takes 2 to lob. He can go u and get the ball above everyone so you could say he sets up the lob. You've given many stats but they aren't a top 5 offense with him being neutral. Elite screener, roller and offensive rebounder.
Being a elite screen setter and roller doesn't make you a great offensive player.

Clippers DeAndre did all of those things same with Bogut on the Warriors, nobody looked at them as elite offensive weapons

I admit his screens are extremely important for Utah's offense and Rudy has a bit more offensive impact than people give him credit for but you're acting like he's on Embiid/Jokic level on offense which is crazy

[Xiao Yao You]

Being a elite screen setter and roller doesn't make you a great offensive player.

Clippers DeAndre did all of those things same with Bogut on the Warriors, nobody looked at them as elite offensive weapons

I admit his screens are extremely important for Utah's offense and Rudy has a bit more offensive impact than people give him credit for but you're acting like he's on Embiid/Jokic level on offense which is crazy

never mentioned Embiid, Jokic, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq... That's on you guys

[RRR3]

takes 2 to lob. He can go u and get the ball above everyone so you could say he sets up the lob. You've given many stats but they aren't a top 5 offense with him being neutral. Elite screener, roller and offensive rebounder.
Mitchell Robinson sets up plays by this logic. I’m not sure why you think having one neutral offensive player would preclude the Jazz from having a top 5 offense when most of their other rotation players are positive offensive players?

[Manny98]

never mentioned Embiid, Jokic, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq... That's on you guys
So you admit he's not close to those guys on offense?

[RRR3]

never mentioned Embiid, Jokic, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq... That's on you guys
You literally said he’s better than Embiid. I made a poll asking who’s better and you voted Rudy. I also remember you arguing he had similar impact to Jokic last year. You bring this on yourself.

[Xiao Yao You]

Mitchell Robinson sets up plays by this logic. I’m not sure why you think having one neutral offensive player would preclude the Jazz from having a top 5 offense when most of their other rotation players are positive offensive players?

Bojan has mostly been horrible and Mitchell is inconsistent as they come. When Mitchell Robinson is carrying a crappy team let me know please

[Xiao Yao You]

You literally said he’s better than Embiid. I made a poll asking who’s better and you voted Rudy. I also remember you arguing he had similar impact to Jokic last year. You bring this on yourself.

I said I'd rather have the guy that plays than the China doll. There's a difference. I know reading comprehension is not an ISH strong suit. I said him and Jokic have played almost evenly in their careers head to head which is the case. For some reason the great Jokic and his very talented team is 8 games back, 3 games above .500

[RRR3]

Bojan has mostly been horrible and Mitchell is inconsistent as they come. When Mitchell Robinson is carrying a crappy team let me know please
Bojan hasn’t been good but he’s generally a big plus offensively due to elite spacing and shooting. Mitchell is a big positive on offense regardless of what you think of him.

[Manny98]

So you admit he's not close to those guys on offense?
Xiao?

[RRR3]

Xiao?
*crickets*

[Manny98]

*crickets*
I knew he would duck the question :oldlol:

[RRR3]

I knew he would duck the question :oldlol:
Shit is comical. He knows Rudy isn’t the GOAT but admitting any player is better than Rudy seems to kill him inside. So when he knows a player is better he just avoids discussing them.

[Xiao Yao You]

Bojan hasn’t been good but he’s generally a big plus offensively due to elite spacing and shooting. Mitchell is a big positive on offense regardless of what you think of him.

both big negatives defensively. Mitchell is a positive when he's good. When he's not good which is too often he's not

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Ben Wallace was the MVP. The leader of their defense, which was how they were a dominant team.

They didn't become contenders until RaWeed got there

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Let's not bring Bojan in to this. Winning despite him

His defense is about as bad as his hairline but he's still a scorer. Its still critical to put scorers around Gobert, he's 5th in scoring right now.

[RRR3]

both big negatives defensively. Mitchell is a positive when he's good. When he's not good which is too often he's not
Not sure what their defense has to do with anything when we were strictly discussing offense.

[Xiao Yao You]

His defense is about as bad as his hairline but he's still a scorer. Its still critical to put scorers around Gobert, he's 5th in scoring right now.

They have plenty of scorers. Need a PF

[Xiao Yao You]

Not sure what their defense has to do with anything when we were strictly discussing offense.

hard to know what we are discussing other than how bad Rudy Gobert is. The one constant! :cheers:

[LoneyROY7]

It's Harden, if we're gonna be intellectually honest with ourselves.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

It's Harden, if we're gonna be intellectually honest with ourselves.

You're on a team with two different 27PPG scorers. MVP Hahahaha kiss those goodbye because you stalked Durant. Ask curry how many MVPS he won with Durant, reg season or playoffs.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

They have plenty of scorers. Need a PF

Does Utah really need anything right now? They are a godly 10.39 SRS. We'll see if their offense is resilient enough to advance late in the playoffs though.

[LoneyROY7]

You're on a team with two different 27PPG scorers. MVP Hahahaha kiss those goodbye because you stalked Durant. Ask curry how many MVPS he won with Durant, reg season or playoffs.

I'm not shocked your dumbass would overlook the drastic difference in playmaking.

Harden controls and runs the offense. He's leading the league in assists, while also scoring extremely efficiently. And he's grabbing nearly 9 boards a game in Brooklyn. A walking triple-double.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I'm pretty sure hobert is a 4th option on his team lmao.. so no, he's not an MVP on his own team let alone of the entire league. Hilarious title tho

I'd say lebron and harden are 1a and 1b right now. Yeah!!!!!!!!


Mitchell leading his team to 1st seed after his historic playoff performance last year is eye popping though. Hes a n absolute stud

[Xiao Yao You]

Does Utah really need anything right now? They are a godly 10.39 SRS. We'll see if their offense is resilient enough to advance late in the playoffs though.

Yeah they need size. Don't match up well with the Lakers. Clippers out rebounded them. Nuggets have given them trouble with size. Have to be versatile and Favors spotting up for 3 isn't that

[Xiao Yao You]

I'm pretty sure hobert is a 4th option on his team lmao.. so no, he's not an MVP on his own team let alone of the entire league. Hilarious title tho

I'd say lebron and harden are 1a and 1b right now. Yeah!!!!!!!!


Mitchell leading his team to 1st seed after his historic playoff performance last year is eye popping though. Hes a n absolute stud

Mitchell hasn't led anywhere except in the scoring and turnover column

[Xiao Yao You]

I'm pretty sure hobert is a 4th option on his team lmao.. so no, he's not an MVP on his own team let alone of the entire league. Hilarious title tho

I'd say lebron and harden are 1a and 1b right now. Yeah!!!!!!!!


Mitchell leading his team to 1st seed after his historic playoff performance last year is eye popping though. Hes a n absolute stud

Mitchell hasn't led anywhere but the points and turnover column

[DoctorP]

Alot of thoughts said on this thread, I'm still catching up, but if the Jazz are the best team by a wide margin you bet your ass there's going to be some awards coming. MVP could be one of them.