1980s Dominique Wilkins was better then Larry Bird and Magic Johnson

[TAZORAC]

For those who may not know, in the 80s NBA free agency was a little different. To make things simple, if you were lucky to get drafted to get a good team, chances are you'd play on that team for most of your career and the team would be good for years to come. If you were a great player and you got drafted to a horrible team, your greatness could improve the team, but more then likely you'd have to WAIT until another good player was drafted to your team.

Which is why the same teams would go to the championships over and over and over again.

Which brings us back to the topic, Dominique Wilkins as an individual was a better player then both Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, he unfortunately was drafted to a team that wasn't good. Which was true for several different players in the 80s.

Malone, Barkley, Drexler, Wilkins, Olajuwon, Ralph Sampson, and of course Jordan BEFORE the championships, you could tell were much better players.

[RRR3]

If you think PPG is all that matters, maybe.

[Bronbron23]

For those who may not know, in the 80s NBA free agency was a little different. To make things simple, if you were lucky to get drafted to get a good team, chances are you'd play on that team for most of your career and the team would be good for years to come. If you were a great player and you got drafted to a horrible team, your greatness could improve the team, but more then likely you'd have to WAIT until another good player was drafted to your team.

Which is why the same teams would go to the championships over and over and over again.

Which brings us back to the topic, Dominique Wilkins as an individual was a better player then both Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, he unfortunately was drafted to a team that wasn't good. Which was true for several different players in the 80s.

Malone, Barkley, Drexler, Wilkins, Olajuwon, Ralph Sampson, and of course Jordan BEFORE the championships, you could tell were much better players.

Bruh not even close

[Marchesk]

Literally no one believes this. Not then. Not now. Nice try.

But this sort of thing is why Zion gets a bit overrated.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/198550539665289603/43B0BDD264D67AB17CB81E4B7F2EDEAC764495FA/

[AussieSteve]

Nique was regularly in the "worst defender in the league" conversation. He was also not great on the boards or as a playmaker getting others involved.

He was a generational athlete who could score in a variety of ways. As an all round basketball player, he was several tiers below Magic and Bird.

[Micku]

Wilkins is a great player. And he probably could've won some chips if he had more help.

But hardly anyone thought he was better than Bird and Magic then. And hardly anyone now.

They did far more things on the court that Nique couldn't do to impact the game.

[Xiao Yao You]

He was a high scoring small forward that was never as good as the hype. The Carmelo of his day. A lot of points on high usage. The advanced stats don't paint a pretty picture for him now

[ShawkFactory]

He was a high scoring small forward that was never as good as the hype. The Carmelo of his day. A lot of points on high usage. The advanced stats don't paint a pretty picture for him now
I would say that's even a little generous.

[SouBeachTalents]

This fakkit with another turrible troll thread :lol

[tontoz]

I used to live in Atlanta and root for the Hawks when he was there. Nobody was under any delusion that he was better than Bird or Magic.

He scored a lot of points and had great highlights but had weak efficiency and didn't do much other than score.

[999Guy]

At what?

I truly in my balls don’t even believe he was a bette scorer than either of those guys, and that was his thing.

[3ball]

Dominique's peak was actually only 30 ppg, despite his 1-man show

Guys like Magic, Worthy, or Bird were equal scorers but they played on super-teams that reduced their scoring compared to Nique's 1-man show

But sure, if Dominique was averaging 35 or 37 with good efficiency then it would be clear that he was a far better scorer, and therefore better.. but 30 ppg with weak efficiency as a 1-man show doesn't demonstrate superior scoring ability to the guys you mentioned

[TAZORAC]

Larry Bird was an small forward who couldn't beat anybody off the dribble but had a good jump shot, Magic Johnson couldn't shot or go left, but he was 6'9 and could handle the ball like a small guy.

Had they been drafted to other teams, they would be Mitch Richmond

[ShawkFactory]

Larry Bird was an small forward who couldn't beat anybody off the dribble but had a good jump shot, Magic Johnson couldn't shot or go left, but he was 6'9 and could handle the ball like a small guy.

Had they been drafted to other teams, they would be Mitch Richmond

Larry Bird would have been 6'5 Mitch Richmond if he wasn't drafted to the 29 win Celtics

[Kblaze8855]

Literally no one believes this. Not then. Not now. Nice try.

I knew people who believed it.

I knew people who had Nique as those guys on a bad team. And while that wasnt the case.....the matchups really weren't fair.

There were years he won 57 games with Rivers, young Willis, and Randy Wittman and Bird won 59 with 4 all stars.

He takes on Bird, Mchale, Parish, Ainge, and DJ 4 of them all stars at the time(Ainge made it that year) with Doc Rivers and Kevin Willis and loses in game 7 by 2 points having dropped 47 points.

He got more out of some of those squads than he should have.

He shouldnt have even been able to keep a few of those teams afloat. There were times id watch them and it seemed like the only other person who wanted to win was Spud Webb. Not that they didnt try but Spud would come in and change the game at times and it would look like the Nique show....featuring Spud...while a bunch of dudes watched.

Nique had crackheads(well...one), washed up guys, never were guys, and explosive midgets most of his career.

I have a sneaking suspicion that leading several title teams in scoring had the Lakers drafted him instead of Worthy would change the whole perception of him.

He never really got a fair shake compared to the rest of the 80s stars. He had easily the worst teams of all those golden era guys.

[SATAN]

I'm a Wilkins fan but no. Even he would disagree with this OP's claim.

[Micku]

I knew people who believed it.

I knew people who had Nique as those guys on a bad team. And while that wasnt the case.....the matchups really weren't fair.

There were years he won 57 games with Rivers, young Willis, and Randy Wittman and Bird won 59 with 4 all stars.

He takes on Bird, Mchale, Parish, Ainge, and DJ 4 of them all stars at the time(Ainge made it that year) with Doc Rivers and Kevin Willis and loses in game 7 by 2 points having dropped 47 points.

He got more out of some of those squads than he should have.

He shouldnt have even been able to keep a few of those teams afloat. There were times id watch them and it seemed like the only other person who wanted to win was Spud Webb. Not that they didnt try but Spud would come in and change the game at times and it would look like the Nique show....featuring Spud...while a bunch of dudes watched.

Nique had crackheads(well...one), washed up guys, never were guys, and explosive midgets most of his career.

I have a sneaking suspicion that leading several title teams in scoring had the Lakers drafted him instead of Worthy would change the whole perception of him.

He never really got a fair shake compared to the rest of the 80s stars. He had easily the worst teams of all those golden era guys.

And Wilkins played longer than Worthy too. Even coming off that achilles injury, scoring like 30 ppg. At the same age, Worthy injured his ankle, and I suppose he was never the same after that.

At the same time, I would love to see what could Worthy do by himself and see what Wilkins could've done with Magic. But I'm shocked that you found some ppl who believe that he was better than Magic and Bird. I knew there was some ppl out there, but very very few. I think I would find more ppl who believe Mchale was better than Bird or James Worthy being a secret 30 ppg guy than Wilkins being better than Bird and Magic.

[Kblaze8855]

I didnt have to find them. They were all around me. Back when TBS showed a lot of Hawks games in the south Nique had a lot of fans so when id come south to my grandmas house id hear such things.

And I kinda understand. He was always losing but in straight up unfair matchups. Hed have good players like Willis and Rivers.....Magic had some teams with 3 hall of famers starting with an all star on top of it with Worthy, a DPOY in cooper, and former MVP in Mcadoo off the bench. Bird was surely better than Nique but it didnt help he also had Parish, Mchale, DJ, and Ainge/Walton depending on the time.

Mchale especially hated the Hawks and loved embarrassing Willis for saying before a series once he could guard him.

This game Mchale went off:



https://youtu.be/fpyDS4o42RI



Bird had 26/15/14.


Nique had 54 to win by 2.



https://youtu.be/hwtm_izH41E



You can see how the takeaway might be that hes gotta do more for his team to win than other stars.

[Marchesk]

IHe takes on Bird, Mchale, Parish, Ainge, and DJ 4 of them all stars at the time(Ainge made it that year) with Doc Rivers and Kevin Willis and loses in game 7 by 2 points having dropped 47 points.

I remember that game. I was a Dominique fan back then, and I hated the Celtics even more than the Lakers. My dad loved Bird and the Celtics style of play. I tried to brag to him after the game about Dominique outscoring Bird, even though they lost. He wasn't impressed. Said that while 'Nique was a good scorer, Bird did all the other things it took to win.

And guess what the verdict is years later? Bird is unanimous top 10, and Wilkins is tiers below. Pippen is considered higher ranked. Dominique is top 50, I guess.

[TAZORAC]

I remember that game. I was a Dominique fan back then, and I hated the Celtics even more than the Lakers. My dad loved Bird and the Celtics style of play. I tried to brag to him after the game about Dominique outscoring Bird, even though they lost. He wasn't impressed. Said that while 'Nique was a good scorer, Bird did all the other things it took to win.

And guess what the verdict is years later? Bird is unanimous top 10, and Wilkins is tiers below. Pippen is considered higher ranked. Dominique is top 50, I guess.

Bird is top 10 to people who don't have a mind of their own. I'll just go by CURRENT players, there's no way you take a guy like Bird (not talking about career accolades but skillset), there's no way you'd put Bird on your team over Donicic, Leonard, Durant, James, Giannis, Harden, Curry etc.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird is top 10 to people who don't have a mind of their own. I'll just go by CURRENT players, there's no way you take a guy like Bird (not talking about career accolades but skillset), there's no way you'd put Bird on your team over Donicic, Leonard, Durant, James, Giannis, Harden, Curry etc.
Let's see how many people take the very obvious bait

[Airupthere]

Bird is top 10 to people who don't have a mind of their own. I'll just go by CURRENT players, there's no way you take a guy like Bird (not talking about career accolades but skillset), there's no way you'd put Bird on your team over Donicic, Leonard, Durant, James, Giannis, Harden, Curry etc.

There is only one person in that list I would consider not picking Bird, taht is Lebron. Youre crazy if you would pick Giannis over Bird. That is just a clearly bad choice. Bird had all the skills and intangibles in the world. What he did not have was athleticism.

[Bronbron23]

Bird is top 10 to people who don't have a mind of their own. I'll just go by CURRENT players, there's no way you take a guy like Bird (not talking about career accolades but skillset), there's no way you'd put Bird on your team over Donicic, Leonard, Durant, James, Giannis, Harden, Curry etc.

Dude are you serious? I'd put him over all of those guys. And Luka is just a slightly worse version of bird. He literally does everything a bit worse than bird

[bizil]

FULL DISCLOSURE Nique is my FAVORITE player of all time! Because I loved his playing style so much, his dominance, and swag on and off court. Plus I had family in the A as well. At his best, he was the 2nd best SF on the planet. ONLY BEHIND Bird. Who at one point was the GOAT SF! When u think about the top solo rivals for Bird AND MJ, Nique is in the top 3 for each player. By that I mean the NBA machine PUMPED those rivalries up due to Nique and Bird being SF's. The shootouts they had.

And for MJ because they were the top two freak athlete scoring machines in the league. And their duels in the dunk contests AND GAMES! THIS is the level Nique was on back in the day. One of the TRUE rock star-face of the league type guys Stern built the Golden Era NBA around. Sure we had MJ, Bird, and Magic. BUT Nique, Zeke, and Barkley were huge factors as well. Those were the six guys at one point.

When Nique's career ended, he scored MORE CAREER POINTS than any SF ever. Nique held that distinction for a long ass time UNTIL Bron passed him by. That's why him not being 50 greatest AND 1st ballot HOF was BS!!! With all this said, NO WAY Nique was better than Bird and Magic. When u have great all around ability, great scoring, and great positional versatility AS A PACKAGE, u got be that SAME TYPE of player on the perimeter to supercede a Magic or Bird.

So only a MJ or Bron type perimeter wise you could take. KD and Kobe types as well u could at least argue. HOWEVER Nique was a true alpha dog scorer like them. And very good to great rebounder for a SF. Could toe to toe WITH ANYBODY in terms of a scoring duel. BUT when it comes to Magic and Bird, it takes an MJ, Bron, KD, or Kobe type to consider OF be better. Bird and Magic are top 5-7 GOAT caliber icons. NO SHAME in being behind them. BUT I gotta admit I have seen such a high profile athlete be underrated AND get shitted on like Nique!

[bizil]

I didnt have to find them. They were all around me. Back when TBS showed a lot of Hawks games in the south Nique had a lot of fans so when id come south to my grandmas house id hear such things.

And I kinda understand. He was always losing but in straight up unfair matchups. Hed have good players like Willis and Rivers.....Magic had some teams with 3 hall of famers starting with an all star on top of it with Worthy, a DPOY in cooper, and former MVP in Mcadoo off the bench. Bird was surely better than Nique but it didnt help he also had Parish, Mchale, DJ, and Ainge/Walton depending on the time.

Mchale especially hated the Hawks and loved embarrassing Willis for saying before a series once he could guard him.

This game Mchale went off:



https://youtu.be/fpyDS4o42RI



Bird had 26/15/14.


Nique had 54 to win by 2.



https://youtu.be/hwtm_izH41E



You can see how the takeaway might be that hes gotta do more for his team to win than other stars.


DAMN RIGHT! Bird, Magic, and MJ played with multiple PERENNIAL All Star type guys in their prime. Guys who made the HOF. Nique NEVER DID play with those guys in his prime!!! When he got Moses, Moses was PAST HIS PRIME! From there Doc Rivers and Willis were 1 time All Star type guys. Of all the players who were considered top 10 kind of players in the era, Nique (as a whole) had the LEAST AMOUNT of All star-superstar type of help. YET he willed those Hawks teams in the 80's to 4 50 win seasons. In the 90's, he had the Hawks first in the East at the All Star Break one season. They they traded him to the Clippers in a horrible trade for Manning. Nique was in MVP contention that year and playing awesome at 33-34 years of age! It's funny how haters of Nique NEVER bring this type of stuff up. Nique showed he could elevate teams!

[FKAri]

I understand what OP is trying to say; that potential greats did get marooned on bad teams in that era and got underrated and even forgotten. I agree with that. But I don't agree that he was better than Bird or Magic. Though I hate Magic and think he's an overrated piece of garbage he was still better than Nique.

[bizil]

Nique was regularly in the "worst defender in the league" conversation. He was also not great on the boards or as a playmaker getting others involved.

He was a generational athlete who could score in a variety of ways. As an all round basketball player, he was several tiers below Magic and Bird.

I would put Nique in the very good to great area for a rebounding SF. GREAT MULTIPLE SEASONS for a perimeter player. He had 9 boards in a season. That's a GREAT CLIP for a SF. Not many perimeter player in today's game are averaging that many boards. He also had several seasons between 7.0 and 7.9 boards. So in his prime, you are looking at DAMN CLOSE to 7-8 boards a night. Rebounding was FOR DAMN SURE a strength in his game! Not many perimeter players in today's league are getting that number or boards. I would say 10 AT THE MOST. Hell possibly less than that.

[Xiao Yao You]

I would put Nique in the very good to great area for a rebounding SF. GREAT MULTIPLE SEASONS for a perimeter player. He had 9 boards in a season. That's a GREAT CLIP for a SF. Not many perimeter player in today's game are averaging that many boards. He also had several seasons between 7.0 and 7.9 boards. So in his prime, you are looking at DAMN CLOSE to 7-8 boards a night. Rebounding was FOR DAMN SURE a strength in his game! Not many perimeter players in today's league are getting that number or boards. I would say 10 AT THE MOST. Hell possibly less than that.

He would be a 4 in today's game not a 3

[2much_knowledge]

Bird is top 10 to people who don't have a mind of their own. I'll just go by CURRENT players, there's no way you take a guy like Bird (not talking about career accolades but skillset), there's no way you'd put Bird on your team over Donicic, Leonard, Durant, James, Giannis, Harden, Curry etc.

You are crazy. Whats your criteria im curious. Ill take prime Bird over all of them.

[Gohan]

Don’t listen to them op good thread

[tontoz]

Bird was drafted by a 29 win team. They won 61 the following year. The only other All Star on that team was 14/8 Tiny Archibald.

I watched Dominique for years following the Hawks. He was good at getting his points and making the highlights.

They traded him for Danny Manning who I couldn't stand. Manning walked as a free agent after the season so essentially they lost Nique for nothing then had 5 straight winning seasons. No great loss.

[BigShotBob]

No he wasn't but he was a phenomenal athlete, great scorer, actually an underrated playmaker and rebounder, and a great leader and galvanizer. When he went on his scoring runs his team would dial in on defense and do everything in their power to cause turnovers so they could pass it to 'Nique on the fast break.

And for the record John Battle was an extremely underrated player/scorer for the Hawks and a great addition to their team. Off the bench you could think of him as a taller, more athletic Lou Williams with a great jumper and playmaking abilities.

[Thenameless]

I would say that's even a little generous.

To Carmelo.

[Smoke117]

:roll: :facepalm

[TAZORAC]

Dude are you serious? I'd put him over all of those guys. And Luka is just a slightly worse version of bird. He literally does everything a bit worse than bird

Luka and Bird actually don't even play alike. Develop a mind of your own.

Luke has the handles of a PG in the body SF/PF with 3 point shot of a SG. Bird was methodical and couldn't beat anybody off the dribble, even in the 80s. Majority of his points came off of post moves.

Bird nor Magic are impressive players

[2much_knowledge]

Luka and Bird actually don't even play alike. Develop a mind of your own.

Luke has the handles of a PG in the body SF/PF with 3 point shot of a SG. Bird was methodical and couldn't beat anybody off the dribble, even in the 80s. Majority of his points came off of post moves.

Bird nor Magic are impressive players

And Luka at the end of year 3 is behind Bird in every single category except ppg and apg. Thats it

[ShawkFactory]

Luka and Bird actually don't even play alike. Develop a mind of your own.

Luke has the handles of a PG in the body SF/PF with 3 point shot of a SG. Bird was methodical and couldn't beat anybody off the dribble, even in the 80s. Majority of his points came off of post moves.

Bird nor Magic are impressive players
You ARE joking right?

[kawhileonard2]

In 1989 Walt Frazier did say that MJ, Magic and Nique were the top 3 in the league in that order.

[Thenameless]

Dominique Wilkins is one of my favourite players. But he's not as good as Bird or Magic.

[ShawkFactory]

In 1989 Walt Frazier did say that MJ, Magic and Nique were the top 3 in the league in that order.

Well Bird was hurt.

[RogueBorg]

You're saying 0 MVP's>3 MVP's back-to-back-to-back really?

You're saying 0 rings>3 rings really?

No way in hell.

[jayfan]

Bird is top 10 to people who don't have a mind of their own. I'll just go by CURRENT players, there's no way you take a guy like Bird (not talking about career accolades but skillset), there's no way you'd put Bird on your team over Donicic, Leonard, Durant, James, Giannis, Harden, Curry etc.


No. Bird is top 10 to people who lived through his career and suffered through his dominance.


.

[getting_old]

The best years of those Lakers and C's would never have traded for a player like Nique.

The Sixers on the other hand....

[BarberSchool]

Nique was certainly more explosively athletic than both Magic and certainly Bird, but he wasn’t better than either of them. Bird lit Nique up for 40-50 more than a few times, including in the playoffs.

[Bronbron23]

Luka and Bird actually don't even play alike. Develop a mind of your own.

Luke has the handles of a PG in the body SF/PF with 3 point shot of a SG. Bird was methodical and couldn't beat anybody off the dribble, even in the 80s. Majority of his points came off of post moves.

Bird nor Magic are impressive players

They don't play alike but they're similar in size, body type, athleticism and of course color lol. They also have comparable stats.

And i don't know what you were and are watching but Luka's handles aren't better than bird. They're about the same. His 3 point shot is nowhere near birds and his ability to beat defenders isn't any better either. Players nowadays more easily beat defenders because of the rules and and all the screens.

Bird had better stats than luka and bird played in more of a system. Luka plays a ball dominant style like bron, harden westbrook and alot of players and teams in this era. Drop bird in this era in a ball dominant roll and it be ugly. He'd be impossible to defend.

[Bronbron23]

In 1989 Walt Frazier did say that MJ, Magic and Nique were the top 3 in the league in that order.

He may have been in 1989 but bird was never same after he hurt his back the year before. Plus alot of ninjas hated on bird back then so wouldn't take walt or isiah thomas word for it.