The reason why current competition is irrefutably greater than Jordan's

[AussieSteve]

Giannis
Embiid
Jokic
Luka
Siakam
Murray
Sabonis
Vucevic
Gobert
Simmons
Kristaps
Shai



Literally a quarter of the best ~50 players in the NBA are from other countries.

We have a back-to-back MVP from Greece. We have contending teams, like Philly and (when healthy) Dallas, whose best two players are international.

If you take 100 players at random out of current NBA rosters and replace them with 100 players form the G League, that's the depth of talent in the 80s & 90s.

What do you think a player like Lebron would do in a league where there is a 1 in 4 chance he are being guarded by someone who is currently in the G League? A league where 4 of the top 10 MVP candidates are removed? Would he average what Jordan averaged? Would he have won a couple more MVPs and titles? Easily I would say.

[SATAN]

Would have at least 10peated imo

[dankok8]

In Jordan's era US basketball was on a way higher level than international. It's not like the best players didn't play in the NBA. The best players in the world were pretty much all American at that time. Plus you are forgetting a few really good international players too. Hakeem was Nigerian... Ewing was Jamaican. You had a lot of solid players like Divac, Kukoc, Drazen, Radja, Smits, Schrempf... So it's not like the 90's didn't have international players like you're implying.

[AirBonner]

No Pip no chip

[Robalvarez2010]

Giannis
Embiid
Jokic
Luka
Siakam
Murray
Sabonis
Vucevic
Gobert
Simmons
Kristaps
Shai



Literally a quarter of the best ~50 players in the NBA are from other countries.

We have a back-to-back MVP from Greece. We have contending teams, like Philly and (when healthy) Dallas, whose best two players are international.

If you take 100 players at random out of current NBA rosters and replace them with 100 players form the G League, that's the depth of talent in the 80s & 90s.

What do you think a player like Lebron would do in a league where there is a 1 in 4 chance he are being guarded by someone who is currently in the G League? A league where 4 of the top 10 MVP candidates are removed? Would he average what Jordan averaged? Would he have won a couple more MVPs and titles? Easily I would say.

These are two different eras that you are talking about. There are only a handful of players in today's game that would be able to play in the physicality of the 90's and LeBron is not one of them. The players today would not average in the 90's what they average now because once again they played physical and there were true centers. In today's game there is no hand checking or centers to block the lane making it easier to drive in. Now the players from the 90's would score more in today's game once again because of how soft the NBA is now and with no one covering the basket players like Jordan, Prime Shaq, Olajuwon, Bird, Magic Malone etc would have a field day. Jordan in today's game would easily average at least 40 pts if not more because he averaged 31 pts a game in a more physical era and a record that still holds today.

[999Guy]

Towns is also Dominican.

The entire planet is more populated. The US has over 100 million more people than in the mid 80s. Basketball is a far more globally played sport than in the 80s and 90s.


The amount of competition to make the NBA has expanded FAR more than NBA expansions.

This is visible. Christian Wood is a borderline superstar and barely made it into being an NBA starter.

Then add in training, analytics, and the level of investment even AAU teams and high schools put into developing talent and it’s obvious.

More and more people will go for the massive NBA money around the world as opposed to other sports too.

Zion probably ends up as defensive end or tight end 20 years ago. He made $95M before he even got drafted.

[scuzzy]

Yeah the talent pool has infinitely expanded globally

50+ internationally compete in 2016 Rio, not including Team USA. 110+ non US born currently play in the NBA

In 1992, a whopping 20. And the list is hilariously tragic. Edit: The few names above given as example by the that covert MJ stan, that was actually the entirety of them all lol. No etc, etc.... Those were big 4-5 head muchachos of the glorious Barcelona Basketball our US boys had to worry about.


Here's the cream of the crop and running force, 8x medalist Lithuanian after state funded Soviet dissolved and ongoing oligarch ran chaos at that very moment. One of the only international foreign countries to scholar and budget youth basketball pre-1990.



https://i.postimg.cc/PqWF9189/bl-3181-1.jpg


The Behemoth and FULL TIME Cub Scout Camp Counselor: Arvydas Romas Sabonis :bowdown::bowdown:


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Cndk7ojLCePiI6tTSJAfXdzI4w0=/0x825:2398x3598/1200x800/filters:focal(908x1163:1290x1545)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/67608842/849651144.jpg.0.jpg

[8Ball]

If you were to put a non USA team together, it would destroy whatever non USA 90s team there was.

Luca / Giannis / Jokic / Murray / Siakam. Imagine that team. Anything in the 80s or 90s rival that?

[AussieSteve]

In Jordan's era US basketball was on a way higher level than international. It's not like the best players didn't play in the NBA. The best players in the world were pretty much all American at that time. Plus you are forgetting a few really good international players too. Hakeem was Nigerian... Ewing was Jamaican. You had a lot of solid players like Divac, Kukoc, Drazen, Radja, Smits, Schrempf... So it's not like the 90's didn't have international players like you're implying.

But this is kind of the point.... The USA was the only real pool of talent for the NBA. Now Basketball is more global and so the pool of talent is much larger.

Hakeem was the only true international star of the era.

Ewing was born in Jamaica sure, but he grew up and went to school and college in the USA. He played for team USA. Calling him foreign player is like calling Kyrie Irving a foreign player because he was born in Austrlalia.

The best Canadian player of the Era was Bill Wennington (who played with Jordan). The best European player of the era was Toni Kukoc (who played with Jordan). The best Australian player of the era was Luc Longley (who played with Jordan)

:biggums:




Almost a quarter of the NBA now plays for the national team of a country other than the USA.

[scuzzy]

These are two different eras that you are talking about. There are only a handful of players in today's game that would be able to play in the physicality of the 90's and LeBron is not one of them. The players today would not average in the 90's what they average now because once again they played physical and there were true centers. In today's game there is no hand checking or centers to block the lane making it easier to drive in. Now the players from the 90's would score more in today's game once again because of how soft the NBA is now and with no one covering the basket players like Jordan, Prime Shaq, Olajuwon, Bird, Magic Malone etc would have a field day. Jordan in today's game would easily average at least 40 pts if not more because he averaged 31 pts a game in a more physical era and a record that still holds today.
15yo Lebron was getting Nike kickbacks in 99.


Pretty sure his pro game would have adapted deliciously based on 100 NCAA offers before he had pubes


Nah, no way some 1999 all state receiver getting Nick Saban visits will be cunning enough to swivle past Dan Marjle only to be met at the rim by Danny Ainge (that's IF he made it out the 93 East) ((no way. jose.))

[scuzzy]

If you were to put a non USA team together, it would destroy whatever non USA 90s team there was.

Luca / Giannis / Jokic / Murray / Siakam. Imagine that team. Anything in the 80s or 90s rival that?

I just tried to whisk up the GOAT international 90's team across 10 season versus NBA's current who's who. Team 90's got swallowed by 2021 France, Serbia, Australia and Germs before they were even qualified into Vegas to face team Canada. I even slipped them baby Peja class of 98

[Axe]

If you were to put a non USA team together, it would destroy whatever non USA 90s team there was.

Luca / Giannis / Jokic / Murray / Siakam. Imagine that team. Anything in the 80s or 90s rival that?
Only siakam has a chip in that list so i wonder when the others will start to follow.

[Kblaze8855]

If you were to put a non USA team together, it would destroy whatever non USA 90s team there was.

Luca / Giannis / Jokic / Murray / Siakam. Imagine that team. Anything in the 80s or 90s rival that?

If you could put together something like Sabonis, Hakeem, Ewing, Drazen, Kukoc, and Detlef and hope marciulionis could play point the late 80s early 90s team would be pretty great. Late 80s you would have a lot more to work with.

[dankok8]

But this is kind of the point.... The USA was the only real pool of talent for the NBA. Now Basketball is more global and so the pool of talent is much larger.

Hakeem was the only true international star of the era.

Ewing was born in Jamaica sure, but he grew up and went to school and college in the USA. He played for team USA. Calling him foreign player is like calling Kyrie Irving a foreign player because he was born in Austrlalia.

The best Canadian player of the Era was Bill Wennington (who played with Jordan). The best European player of the era was Toni Kukoc (who played with Jordan). The best Australian player of the era was Luc Longley (who played with Jordan)

:biggums:




Almost a quarter of the NBA now plays for the national team of a country other than the USA.

The talent pool isn't bigger but the best international players at that time largely weren't good enough to dominate in the NBA. There were some like Oscar Schmidt, Nikos Galis and Dejan Bodiroga who never came to the NBA but many came as absolute megastars and weren't that good.

[8Ball]

If you could put together something like Sabonis, Hakeem, Ewing, Drazen, Kukoc, and Detlef and hope marciulionis could play point the late 80s early 90s team would be pretty great. Late 80s you would have a lot more to work with.

The 90s had too few international talent to rival that team I put together. You would have to take ALL the international players pre 2010 to make it a good matchup.

Hakeem / Dirk / Nash / Manu / Peja

vs

Luca / Giannis / Jokic / Murray / Siakam


The talent level is at all time high right now.

[8Ball]

I just tried to whisk up the GOAT international 90's team across 10 season versus NBA's current who's who. Team 90's got swallowed by 2021 France, Serbia, Australia and Germs before they were even qualified into Vegas to face team Canada. I even slipped them baby Peja class of 98

Hakeem / Dirk / Nash or Tony Parker / Manu / Peja

vs

Luca / Giannis / Jokic / Murray / Siakam


I'd take today's international team vs team all time but that's one hell of a match up. 7 game series for sure.

[scuzzy]

If you could put together something like Sabonis, Hakeem, Ewing, Drazen, Kukoc, and Detlef and hope marciulionis could play point the late 80s early 90s team would be pretty great. Late 80s you would have a lot more to work with.

You can hear Sabonis and Vlade wheezing and sucking wind from the 2 pack habit, ball watching as career bench star Patty Mills zips to his corner spot on the break for his 5th three of the half. Ewings moldy knee pads rip off mid transition like Forest Gump, the bindings weren't meant to hold this type of activity and lateral movement Pat. *splash* Embiid knocks down another open 3 with 15 seconds left on the shot clock, Hakeeem furious he has to defend near the arc. Starts malding in Nigerian, unknowing that Joel and Luka are both fluent in that as well and both use it to their advantage


The first half closes


Embiid retweets the clip of Olajawon's tantrum. 550k likes

[999Guy]

The talent pool isn't bigger but the best international players at that time largely weren't good enough to dominate in the NBA. There were some like Oscar Schmidt, Nikos Galis and Dejan Bodiroga who never came to the NBA but many came as absolute megastars and weren't that good.
I wonder why that is

[SouBeachTalents]

Hakeem / Dirk / Nash or Tony Parker / Manu / Peja

vs

Luca / Giannis / Jokic / Murray / Siakam


I'd take today's international team vs team all time but that's one hell of a match up. 7 game series for sure.
That first team would wipe the floor with today's team

[Shooter]

Great post OP, I couldn't agree more.

I always figured it was well known that the 90s was an extremely weak, watered-down era that was an embarrassing time for the NBA. Literal grocery baggers and auto mechanics were starting in all-star games and playing in the Finals.

Thank goodness we are blessed to watch the 2005+ era. Very high skilled and cream of the crop talent both U.S. and International.

[Axe]

Great post OP, I couldn't agree more.

I always figured it was well known that the 90s was an extremely weak, watered-down era that was an embarrassing time for the NBA. Literal grocery baggers and auto mechanics were starting in all-star games and playing in the Finals.

Thank goodness we are blessed to watch the 2005+ era. Very high skilled and cream of the crop talent both U.S. and International.
Weak ass era just like the 60s because only one team has won more than three rings during those respective decades.

[999Guy]

Hakeem / Dirk / Nash or Tony Parker / Manu / Peja

vs

Luca / Giannis / Jokic / Murray / Siakam


I'd take today's international team vs team all time but that's one hell of a match up. 7 game series for sure.

None of the first team guys are Jordan era, save for Hakeem. 4 played into the LeBron era.

[light]

It's not even debatable.

The expansion era from 1988 to 2004 featured some extremely weak finals teams.

[dankok8]

I think a 90's international team of Drazen/Schrempf/Kukoc/Ewing/Hakeem with Sabonis/Radja/Smits off the bench could take on the best international teams today.

[AussieSteve]

I think a 90's international team of Drazen/Schrempf/Kukoc/Ewing/Hakeem with Sabonis/Radja/Smits off the bench could take on the best international teams today.

Ewing is not an international player. He grew up in the USA was all American in HS and played for the USA in the Olympics before he played in the NBA. Like I said, are we calling Kyrie an international? If so, my point is even stronger!!

And the rest of the players didn't even have overlapping careers, let alone overlapping primes. You taking 93 Drazen with 98 Sabonis!?

Today there are 4 international players who each have a case for BITW. And another half dozen who would be given genuine all-star consideration.

[dankok8]

Ewing is not an international player. He grew up in the USA was all American in HS and played for the USA in the Olympics before he played in the NBA. Like I said, are we calling Kyrie an international? If so, my point is even stronger!!

And the rest of the players didn't even have overlapping careers, let alone overlapping primes. You taking 93 Drazen with 98 Sabonis!?

Today there are 4 international players who each have a case for BITW. And another half dozen who would be given genuine all-star consideration.

Kyrie has American ex-pat parents who lived in Melbourne when he was born. Ewing on the other hand is a full-blood Jamaican and not American. He first moved to the US when he was 12. Kyrie is clearly not international and Ewing is.

[AussieSteve]

Kyrie has American ex-pat parents who lived in Melbourne when he was born. Ewing on the other hand is a full-blood Jamaican and not American. He first moved to the US when he was 12. Kyrie is clearly not international and Ewing is.

Ewing learned to play basketball in America is my point. He wasn't recruited from an overseas league or didn't come to the US to play college ball and then got drafted.

He came into the league via the standard HS -> college-> NBA path.

[AussieSteve]

All International teams for this season

1st Team
Embiid
Jokic
Giannis
Murray
Doncic


2nd team
Gobert
Sabonis
Siakam
SGA
Simmons

3rd Team
Vucevic
Porzingis
Gallinari
Bogdnovic
Schroder

And look at all the guys that don't get in...

Adams
Horford
Gasol
Capela
Wiggins
The other Bogdanovic
Rubio
Ingles
Dragic
Ibaka
Valaciunas
Mills

Take 90% of these guys out of the league and replace them with G Leaguers... that is the NBA in the late 90s. You just can't argue with this.

It doesn't mean LeBron is better than Jordan. Or anyone is better than anyone else for that matter. It just means you can't draw too much from comparing stats, rings and accomplishments between eras because the competition was not the same.

[TheGoatest]

Oscar Schmidt at his peak was one of the best basketball players in the world.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFKZEgM1j90

Yet this man never played a minute in the NBA. Can you imagine Dirk Nowitzki never playing in the NBA?

Aside from the fact that NBA's two best perimeter players of the 90s played on the same Chicago Bulls team, this shows just how watered down the competition was during that era. The top perimeter players were especially extra watered down. Mark Price and Latrell Sprewell All-NBA 1st team members? :roll: Compare that to the 30+ averaging Bradley Beal not making the all-star team.

[2much_knowledge]

More competitive? Maybe
More skilled/athletic, absolutely
However, easier rules? Hell yes

The fact that little by little, they have been making small rule changes to make scoring and putting numbers easier ( handchecking, defensive 3 seconds, shorter shot clock) to name a few. You just don't know how current players would react to brutal, physical, no rely on the 3, no super team league

The fact that in the 80s, 90s, the top dogs wanted to compete, prove dominance and take each others head off you have to consider a point when talking about competitive level. Today, the first team to assemble a big 3 or 4 wins the tittle 8/10. Everybody is friendly and try to make alliances and manipulate free agency and the same 4,5 teams at the top get all the big free agents and the bad teams stay bad and never get big free agents to make it more balanced.

Back then, almost all teams had a big 1,2 punch and it was competitive

Robinson/elliot
Kemp/payton
Jordan/pippen
Stockton/malone
Webber/howard
Penny/shaq
Garnett/Marbury
Ewing/starks
Sprewell/houston
Hakeem/drexler
Thomas/Dummars
Hakeem/Sampson
Julius/moses

There were no superteams with 3 franchise players in their prime together.

[Mr. Woke]

The talent pool is deeper nowadays.

The modern NBA is tougher and more competitive than ever before.

[Mr. Woke]

More competitive? Maybe
More skilled/athletic, absolutely
However, easier rules? Hell yes

The fact that little by little, they have been making small rule changes to make scoring and putting numbers easier ( handchecking, defensive 3 seconds, shorter shot clock) to name a few. You just don't know how current players would react to brutal, physical, no rely on the 3, no super team league

The fact that in the 80s, 90s, the top dogs wanted to compete, prove dominance and take each others head off you have to consider a point when talking about competitive level. Today, the first team to assemble a big 3 or 4 wins the tittle 8/10. Everybody is friendly and try to make alliances and manipulate free agency and the same 4,5 teams at the top get all the big free agents and the bad teams stay bad and never get big free agents to make it more balanced.

Back then, almost all teams had a big 1,2 punch and it was competitive

Robinson/elliot
Kemp/payton
Jordan/pippen
Stockton/malone
Webber/howard
Penny/shaq
Garnett/Marbury
Ewing/starks
Sprewell/houston
Hakeem/drexler
Thomas/Dummars
Hakeem/Sampson
Julius/moses

There were no superteams with 3 franchise players in their prime together.

Superteams and dynasties have definitely existed throughout NBA history.

[HoopsNY]

Yep, so Lebron circa 2003-04 couldn't hang in 2021....oh wait.

[8Ball]

The talent pool is deeper nowadays.

The modern NBA is tougher and more competitive than ever before.

Yup.

Look how fast Dwight Howard became useless. Most of the players from the 90s would go that route, to the end of the bench since it was low skilled basketball.

Embiid / Jokic can play the game because they can score in triple threat (close range, mid range, long range). Most players in the 90s had none of that ability in triple threat.

[dankok8]

Ewing learned to play basketball in America is my point. He wasn't recruited from an overseas league or didn't come to the US to play college ball and then got drafted.

He came into the league via the standard HS -> college-> NBA path.

Your argument was about talent pool. Ewing is clearly from a talent pool outside of the US.


All International teams for this season

1st Team
Embiid
Jokic
Giannis
Murray
Doncic


2nd team
Gobert
Sabonis
Siakam
SGA
Simmons

3rd Team
Vucevic
Porzingis
Gallinari
Bogdnovic
Schroder

And look at all the guys that don't get in...

Adams
Horford
Gasol
Capela
Wiggins
The other Bogdanovic
Rubio
Ingles
Dragic
Ibaka
Valaciunas
Mills

Take 90% of these guys out of the league and replace them with G Leaguers... that is the NBA in the late 90s. You just can't argue with this.

It doesn't mean LeBron is better than Jordan. Or anyone is better than anyone else for that matter. It just means you can't draw too much from comparing stats, rings and accomplishments between eras because the competition was not the same.

Nice list but like we said the 90's also had plenty of really good internationals:

Hakeem
Ewing
Mutombo
Schrempf
Petro
Kukoc
Radja
Tabak
Danilovic
Divac
Sabonis
Smits

You're also clearly ignoring the fact that international basketball hadn't caught up to US basketball at the time. So many other guys who were stars in my home country and in European leagues like Curcic, Cvetkovic, and Dordevic couldn't even break into the rotation and earn minutes in the NBA. They came over but just weren't good enough. Nowadays almost every national team player for Serbia for instance could make the NBA not because the NBA is more international but because international players today are much better relative to US players than 30 years ago. At the time the best players in the world were mostly (like 95%) from the US.

[clipps]

The talent pool is deeper nowadays.

The modern NBA is tougher and more competitive than ever before.

Did your parents shake you when you were a baby?

[ralph_i_el]

In Jordan's era US basketball was on a way higher level than international. It's not like the best players didn't play in the NBA. The best players in the world were pretty much all American at that time. Plus you are forgetting a few really good international players too. Hakeem was Nigerian... Ewing was Jamaican. You had a lot of solid players like Divac, Kukoc, Drazen, Radja, Smits, Schrempf... So it's not like the 90's didn't have international players like you're implying.

That's true, but it doesn't change OP's point.

There are flat out more people on earth trying to become pro basketball players by a large amount now. This is a fact.

Also, when MJ was drafted there was an estimated 4.7 billion humans. Now it's around 7.4. The top people at almost any skill have more competition. There's like 90,000,000 more Americans now than in 1984.

[Mr. Woke]

Did your parents shake you when you were a baby?

Take off the nostalgia goggles.

[Manny98]

Yep basketball became a more global sport since back then

International players were very bad back in the day because basketball was still a new sport outside of the US

[AussieSteve]

You're also clearly ignoring the fact that international basketball hadn't caught up to US basketball at the time. So many other guys who were stars in my home country and in European leagues like Curcic, Cvetkovic, and Dordevic couldn't even break into the rotation and earn minutes in the NBA. They came over but just weren't good enough. Nowadays almost every national team player for Serbia for instance could make the NBA not because the NBA is more international but because international players today are much better relative to US players than 30 years ago. At the time the best players in the world were mostly (like 95%) from the US.

This is exactly my point. All the best players in the world were American. Now America contributes around 3/4 to 2/3 of the best players in the world. Because the rest of the world has gotten better and therefore increased the level of competition! Get it!?

The talent pool has expanded by around 1/4 to 1/3 compared to the late 90s.

Can you maybe name me the top 5 international players in the NBA during the bulls 2nd 3peat? Thanks.

[TheMan]

If you were to put a non USA team together, it would destroy whatever non USA 90s team there was.

Luca / Giannis / Jokic / Murray / Siakam. Imagine that team. Anything in the 80s or 90s rival that?

and they would still get their shit pushed in by the Dream Team...

[2much_knowledge]

Superteams and dynasties have definitely existed throughout NBA history.

Name me one superteam in the 90s that had 3 franchise players in their prime joining forces. Not teams built by drafting. Just one

[TheCorporation]

Great post OP, I couldn't agree more.

I always figured it was well known that the 90s was an extremely weak, watered-down era that was an embarrassing time for the NBA. Literal grocery baggers and auto mechanics were starting in all-star games and playing in the Finals.

Thank goodness we are blessed to watch the 2005+ era. Very high skilled and cream of the crop talent both U.S. and International.

+1

[dankok8]

This is exactly my point. All the best players in the world were American. Now America contributes around 3/4 to 2/3 of the best players in the world. Because the rest of the world has gotten better and therefore increased the level of competition! Get it!?

The talent pool has expanded by around 1/4 to 1/3 compared to the late 90s.

Can you maybe name me the top 5 international players in the NBA during the bulls 2nd 3peat? Thanks.

I don't think you understand what the term talent pool means. The rest of the world outside of the US still generated a lot of basketball players at that time. Places like Italy, Spain and Yugoslavia had pro-basketball leagues possibly before the US did. It's just that at that time the US had the most dominant basketball players. Kind of how Brazil dominated in soccer for decades at a time and were invincible. Does that mean the talent pool was reduced in soccer until 10 years ago? Of course not.

[Mr. Woke]

Name me one superteam in the 90s that had 3 franchise players in their prime joining forces. Not teams built by drafting. Just one

Super teams can be built through either the draft, free agency, trades, or a combo of the aforementioned things. They have always existed throughout NBA history.

[2much_knowledge]

Super teams can be built through either the draft, free agency, trades, or a combo of the aforementioned things. They have always existed throughout NBA history.

Still waiting for one example of a superteam in the 90s with 3/4 allstar in prime

[nayte]

This is a stupid thread .Mr woke is only going to argue with anyone who disagrees. Why you idiots argue with him I don't know

[TheGoatest]

Super teams can be built through either the draft, free agency, trades, or a combo of the aforementioned things. They have always existed throughout NBA history.

The only difference is that nobody tried to form a super team to counter the Bulls in the 90s, and they were allowed to roam free and win chips against historically bad competition.
In fact, it was the Bulls themselves who formed a super team by stacking all-defense 1st team/all-NBA 3rd team Dennis Rodman on top of Jordan and Pippen, after they lost in 1995.
After that, the 96-97 Rockets tried to do something, but Hakeem, Barkley and Drexler were all well past their prime at this point, especially the last two. Had those three gotten together in, say 1992, then Jordan would've faced the type of competition that LeBron faced throughout the 10s instead of all those near automatic, weak-ass championships.

[Gudo]

The only difference is that nobody tried to form a super team to counter the Bulls in the 90s, and they were allowed to roam free and win chips against historically bad competition.
In fact, it was the Bulls themselves who formed a super team by stacking all-defense 1st team/all-NBA 3rd team Dennis Rodman on top of Jordan and Pippen, after they lost in 1995.
After that, the 96-97 Rockets tried to do something, but Hakeem, Barkley and Drexler were all well past their prime at this point, especially the last two. Had those three gotten together in, say 1992, then Jordan would've faced the type of competition that LeBron faced throughout the 10s instead of all those near automatic, weak-ass championships.

:facepalm

[nayte]

You facepalm a stupid thread. Congrats U are just as stupid.

[TheGoatest]

:facepalm

Brilliant counter-argument.
The 90s competition sucked. No emoticon is going to change that fact.

[nayte]

Retarded counter argument to a retarded counter argument.congrats.

[nayte]

Ayee

[nayte]

Dumb
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GibiNy4d4gc

[clipps]

The only difference is that nobody tried to form a super team to counter the Bulls in the 90s, and they were allowed to roam free and win chips against historically bad competition.
In fact, it was the Bulls themselves who formed a super team by stacking all-defense 1st team/all-NBA 3rd team Dennis Rodman on top of Jordan and Pippen, after they lost in 1995.
After that, the 96-97 Rockets tried to do something, but Hakeem, Barkley and Drexler were all well past their prime at this point, especially the last two. Had those three gotten together in, say 1992, then Jordan would've faced the type of competition that LeBron faced throughout the 10s instead of all those near automatic, weak-ass championships.

LeBitch got embarrassed by a German drunkard and gaggle of washed up fossils you retard.

[clipps]

This is a stupid thread .Mr woke is only going to argue with anyone who disagrees. Why you idiots argue with him I don't know

What's sad is that you are easily more retarded than Mr. Joke. How the f*ck are you even alive?

[nayte]

What's sad is that you are easily more retarded than Mr. Joke. How the f*ck are you even alive?

Blah d blah. I suck at Trying to gif on this website.lol.it should try to get with the ages.either way you replied to the wrong comment so what does that say about you

[Mr. Woke]

Still waiting for one example of a superteam in the 90s with 3/4 allstar in prime

A super team can have two All-Stars lol.

In the 90s there wasn't a super team with more than two All-Stars due to the weaker talent pool.

[Mr. Woke]

What's sad is that you are easily more retarded than Mr. Joke. How the f*ck are you even alive?

You don't even follow the NBA.

Your basketball knowledge is putrid.

[TheGoatest]

LeBitch got embarrassed by a German drunkard and gaggle of washed up fossils you retard.

The 2011 Mavs swept the defending champion Kobe-Gasol Lakers.

Prime Jordan got sodomized by a team that went on to get swept by a 6th seed in the finals. :oldlol:

[clipps]

You don't even follow the NBA.

Your basketball knowledge is putrid.

And you don't have any basketball knowledge. Sit down, child.

[clipps]

The 2011 Mavs swept the defending champion Kobe-Gasol Lakers.

Prime Jordan got sodomized by a team that went on to get swept by a 6th seed in the finals. :oldlol:

Try again, stupid. All of that is irrelevant.

[Hey Yo]

Still waiting for one example of a superteam in the 90s with 3/4 allstar in prime

Atlanta Hawks had 4 All-Stars in 2015. Cleveland swept them w/o Love and Kyrie only playing 2gms.

James swept a superteam practically by himself.

[Airupthere]

Atlanta Hawks had 4 All-Stars in 2015. Cleveland swept them w/o Love and Kyrie only playing 2gms.

James swept a superteam practically by himself.

That hawks team was really scary. Can't believe Lebron swept them with a bunch of scrubs. Imagine going against, horford, millsap, and who else? Shroder? That's a lebron miami heat superteam right there.

[FKAri]

I disagree that it's that simple for a number of reasons. One, the AAU issues. Two, I think basketball(and sports in general) is less popular than it was in the early 90s. Great athletes still play sports but poor athletes don't. This doesn't mean that there are potential superstar players walking around that never tried ball but it has a cascade effect on competitive development. I can explain in detail if someone wants.


In Jordan's era US basketball was on a way higher level than international. It's not like the best players didn't play in the NBA. The best players in the world were pretty much all American at that time. Plus you are forgetting a few really good international players too. Hakeem was Nigerian... Ewing was Jamaican. You had a lot of solid players like Divac, Kukoc, Drazen, Radja, Smits, Schrempf... So it's not like the 90's didn't have international players like you're implying.

The talent pool isn't bigger but the best international players at that time largely weren't good enough to dominate in the NBA. There were some like Oscar Schmidt, Nikos Galis and Dejan Bodiroga who never came to the NBA but many came as absolute megastars and weren't that good.

Basketball wasn't too popular outside the US. It became more popular with the rise of international broadcasting deals and the 92 Olympics. Just like soccer isn't very popular in the US but if it was and there is some time for a culture to form for it then the US would be producing much better players than they are now.

Both of these scenarios are shifts in talent pool. Though I don't necessarily agree with the OP as I explained earlier.

[Mr. Woke]

And you don't have any basketball knowledge. Sit down, child.

Wrong, child.

Pull your head out of your ass.

[guy]

That's true, but it doesn't change OP's point.

There are flat out more people on earth trying to become pro basketball players by a large amount now. This is a fact.

Also, when MJ was drafted there was an estimated 4.7 billion humans. Now it's around 7.4. The top people at almost any skill have more competition. There's like 90,000,000 more Americans now than in 1984.

The total population is less relevant then births. The total population in the US is much larger due to people living longer. The most US births were in the 60s i.e. the baby boomer era. There were 4.1M births in 1963, 3.8M in 1985, and 4.1M in 2009. Births in the world overall have gone up (113M in 1963 to 135M in 1985 to 138M in 2009) but the exploding popularity of the sport internationally probably has WAY MORE to do with that, but thats also been coupled with a significant decrease in popularity amongst white Americans.

[clipps]

Wrong, child.

Pull your head out of your ass.

Maybe I will, after your mom's done licking it, Mr. Joke.

[dankok8]

Basketball wasn't too popular outside the US. It became more popular with the rise of international broadcasting deals and the 92 Olympics.

This just isn't true. At the time my parents grew up in Yugoslavia in the 50's and 60's, kids were playing ball on every street corner. And we had professional teams prior to WW2. It's just that our players weren't as good as America's best in the 80's and 90's. We didn't have any Jokic or Doncic level player at that time.

Popularity and producing talent are two very different things. Even if soccer isn't that popular in the US, the sheer population size should make for some dominant teams. Same with China in basketball. If just 1% of Chinese men played basketball that's 13 million people which is way more than the entire population of many tiny Euro countries that dominant basketball like Greece, Serbia and Lithuania. And yet those tiny countries have national teams much better than China.

[2much_knowledge]

Atlanta Hawks had 4 All-Stars in 2015. Cleveland swept them w/o Love and Kyrie only playing 2gms.

James swept a superteam practically by himself.

90ssssssssss. Tries a slick reply, misses by 15 years. And by the way, i remember that Elton brand, jeff teague, paul millsap collusion. Really sent every team shivers down their spine lololol.

So much LLLLLLL in a single comment

[Mr. Woke]

Maybe I will, after your mom's done licking it, Mr. Joke.

My mom banged you with a strap on. You must have confused her for another woman.

Don't sweat it cupcake.

[Axe]

LeBitch got embarrassed by a German drunkard and gaggle of washed up fossils you retard.
Sad this happened when the heat got hca during that time

[scuzzy]

At the time my parents grew up in Yugoslavia in the 50's and 60's, kids were playing ball on every street corner.
:oldlol:


And we had professional teams prior to WW2.
Sick, TIL.

Out of curiosity can you name some. Or what the Yugo pro league was called pre-1938 (ww2)

[FKAri]

This just isn't true. At the time my parents grew up in Yugoslavia in the 50's and 60's, kids were playing ball on every street corner. And we had professional teams prior to WW2. It's just that our players weren't as good as America's best in the 80's and 90's. We didn't have any Jokic or Doncic level player at that time.

Popularity and producing talent are two very different things. Even if soccer isn't that popular in the US, the sheer population size should make for some dominant teams. Same with China in basketball. If just 1% of Chinese men played basketball that's 13 million people which is way more than the entire population of many tiny Euro countries that dominant basketball like Greece, Serbia and Lithuania. And yet those tiny countries have national teams much better than China.

You need a culture, a developmental system and a desire to pursue a sport seriously among kids. This didn't exist in Europe to the extent it does now. Yugoslavia was the exception not the norm in Europe at the time. You couldn't even watch NBA games in Europe in the 80s. Very few pursued the sport seriously. The talent was going to other sports. That being said I outlined earlier that there are larger things offsetting this overall but at least outside the US the sport is simply bigger than in the 80s.

[72-10]

Thank you for naming me that long list of

I wouldn't refute that the world currently has a larger talent pool than heretofore, in fact I'd say the wealth of talent from around the world is 3 times what it was in 1980, and I don't deny that would conceivably mean the United States' National Basketball Association would have the most talent in the world if it were still a pre-eminent league.

However, I think most of the best players in the world are from the past, especially from 1980 to 2008. Most of the starters from the 1990s NBA would still start in the NBA today, in fact most of them are better players than most of the starters today.