How do you think the 1980's play out if Magic Johnson did not exist

[coastalmarker99]

If Magic Johnson did not exist

Do you think Bird now enters the goat debate as he would now have 5 rings and 4 finals MVPs to his name to go along with his 3 or 4 regular-season MVPs?

Do you think Kareem's legacy is not as great as it nowadays if he only finishes his 20-year career with one ring, which he won in 1971 alongside Oscar?

Do you think the 76ers become a dynasty under Julius Erving if they win titles in 1980, 1982 and 1983, and if so, how does that affect Erving's all-time ranking nowadays if he has two finals MVPs to go along with 3 rings and a regular-season Mvp.

Do you think the West becomes wide open for the entire 1980s meaning that we see many different West teams throughout the decade make it to the finals instead of only the Rockets and Lakers?



Also, do you think the greatest team rivalry of the 1980s now becomes the 76ers vs the Celtics as both teams would now know that if they make it to the finals that they would have a massive chance of winning the title against the weaker western teams?


And finally, Do you think the bad boys get more respect nowadays if they three-peat from 1988 to 1990 and if so how does that change Isiah's all-time ranking

[2much_knowledge]

Birds case for the goat, the problem was not Magic, it was only his back. I see jabbar out of the top 10, julius would dominate the early 80s with at least 3 rings and then Bird would basically take over the league after 84

It really depends if len bias stays alive and Sampson healthy. Thats the key to the late 80s

[coastalmarker99]

Birds case for the goat, the problem was not Magic; it was only his back. I see Jabbar out of the top 10, Julius would dominate the early 80s with at least 3 rings, and then Bird would basically take over the league after 84

It really depends if len bias stays alive and Sampson healthy. That's the key to the late 80s


Yep if Bias stays alive and Sampson manages to stay healthy alongside a young Hakeem, that means we most likely see the Celtics and Rockets batting each other in the finals for the title in 86 87 88 and maybe 89.



But by that point, I think the Bad boys would have finally broken through the east and beaten the Celtics as Bird has stated in the past that he would have retired in 88 if Bias lived due to the serious back issues that were affecting him at the time.

[Lebron23]

Bird would be an 8x nba champion

[coastalmarker99]

Bird would be an 8x NBA champion

There is no way he would be an 8-time champion as he would have had to get through the 76ers to even make the finals from 1980 to 1983, which will be very hard, especially if the 76ers won the title in 1980.




And have that championship swagger the next year in 1981, which means they might not choke their 3 1 lead that year against the Celtics, which takes away Bird's first ring.




It is most likely that Bird's wins rings from 1984 to 1987, which gives him a rare four-peat to go along with his 4 finals MVPs and 3 straight regular-season MVPs from 1984 to 1986.



And if Len bias somehow lives and does not OD on coke, Bird has stated that he would have retired in 1988, which gives him only 9 years to win 8 titles that is not happening no matter how you put it.

[Psileas]

As is the case with any GOAT candidate, Magic's absense would boost a lot of opponent legacies. Just look at most years and how they might have played out:

1980: Sixers probably beat Sonics or Lakers. Erving's legacy (being the Finals MVP) takes a boost and Kareem's drops.
1982: Sixers probably beat whoever they face. Dr.J wins another title and F.MVP.
1983+1984: Lakers probably miss Finals.
1985: Celtics with the repeat. McHale has a good chance to win F.MVP, but Bird winning it creates another GOAT candidate.
1986: Celtics three-peat. Bird with 4 titles and 2-3 F.MVP's.
1987: Either Jordan or Bird win the MVP. Maybe Jordan due to voter fatigue, but Bird still gets to 5 titles and 3-4 F.MVP's.
1988: Jordan won the MVP in real life, but Bird might have a chance if Jordan wins it in 1987, because voters won't probably pick a 40-50 game winner over a 60 game winner (let alone 4-peat champion) for second time in a row. Pistons win title.
1989: Jordan gets MVP, Pistons repeat.
1990: Either Barkley or Jordan get MVP, Pistons 3-peat.
1991: Lakers miss Finals, Bulls probably beat Blazers, but Drexler's legacy gets a boost.

So, overall:

Bird becomes a much more valid GOAT candidate.
Erving also becomes a GOAT candidate and even today remains at around Duncan's status.
Jordan becomes even more decorated and now holds the record for most regular season MVP's.
Wilt's legacy gets a boost, since very few would rank Kareem over him. If anything, Kareem might not even have won that second title that would tie Wilt's total.
Other, secondary, legends also get legacy boosts.

[hateraid]

I love this thread as it shows Magic's impact and how competition was much more stronger in 80s...which adds to my case as Magic as the GOAT

[Chick Stern]

Birds case for the goat, the problem was not Magic, it was only his back. I see jabbar out of the top 10, julius would dominate the early 80s with at least 3 rings and then Bird would basically take over the league after 84

It really depends if len bias stays alive and Sampson healthy. Thats the key to the late 80s
The problem wasn’t Magic? ROFL!
In head to head Final match ups, Bird only beat Magic once.
#factsarefun

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

A few thing likely happen...

Bird gets 2 more rings and arguably 2 more FMVPs. The latter though isn't a guarantee (Mchale arguably outplayed Bird in the '85 finals). Still, people would argue that Bird was undefeated in the finals and went 6-0 vs Jordan in the playoffs. So 'best prime' talk for sure and likely GOAT consideration.

Detroit 3-peats and become what many here consider a 'dynasty'. Isiah Thomas' legacy also gets a big boost with ~2FMVP, 3 Championships and 3 Finals Appearances. A large portion of fans would rank him as the GOAT pg or at least in that discussion.

Not too sure what happens to Philly. Or more specifically with Doctor J. They probably win those finals LA did, but its debatable whether Iriving ever wins FMVP. Andrew Toney was a pretty damn good scorer then, and when they lost in the 82 finals, he was actually Philly's leading scorer. When they won in '83, Malone was their best player and FMVP while Toney was arguably better than Irving on offense. Looking at it objectively he probably wins it in '80. Still, individually, compared to Bird and Isiah, Doc's team success wouldn't benefit him as greatly. Most of that is because of age, and in Bird's case, well, he was just a better player.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

which adds to my case as Magic as the GOAT

Seen a few others on here also claim that Magic is GOAT. Over Kareem. I wanna know where you guys are coming from with that.

[999Guy]

Seen a few others on here also claim that Magic is GOAT. Over Kareem. I wanna know where you guys are coming from with that.

Magic’s aids ridden asshole.

[Thenameless]

A few thing likely happen...

Bird gets 2 more rings and arguably 2 more FMVPs. The latter though isn't a guarantee (Mchale arguably outplayed Bird in the '85 finals). Still, people would argue that Bird was undefeated in the finals and went 6-0 vs Jordan in the playoffs. So 'best prime' talk for sure and likely GOAT consideration.

Detroit 3-peats and become what many here consider a 'dynasty'. Isiah Thomas' legacy also gets a big boost with ~2FMVP, 3 Championships and 3 Finals Appearances. A large portion of fans would rank him as the GOAT pg or at least in that discussion.

Not too sure what happens to Philly. Or more specifically with Doctor J. They probably win those finals LA did, but its debatable whether Iriving ever wins FMVP. Andrew Toney was a pretty damn good scorer then, and when they lost in the 82 finals, he was actually Philly's leading scorer. When they won in '83, Malone was their best player and FMVP while Toney was arguably better than Irving on offense. Looking at it objectively he probably wins it in '80. Still, individually, compared to Bird and Isiah, Doc's team success wouldn't benefit him as greatly. Most of that is because of age, and in Bird's case, well, he was just a better player.

Great analysis.

Bird would certainly elevate in status. While Jordan was clearly more athletic and the better defender, Bird was bigger, a better passer, a better rebounder, and a much better shooter. And as you say, the argument would only strengthen by going 6-0 against Jordan in the playoffs. The peak/prime ratings would certainly favour him especially in light of the fact that Isiah and Jordan only begin to shine after his bad back causes his play to diminish.

I never thought of Isiah Thomas, but again you are right. He would likely elevate to greatest point guard of all time. The Pistons were surrounded with fantastic role players, but he was the only true superstar.

[Micku]

A few thing likely happen...

Bird gets 2 more rings and arguably 2 more FMVPs. The latter though isn't a guarantee (Mchale arguably outplayed Bird in the '85 finals). Still, people would argue that Bird was undefeated in the finals and went 6-0 vs Jordan in the playoffs. So 'best prime' talk for sure and likely GOAT consideration.

Detroit 3-peats and become what many here consider a 'dynasty'. Isiah Thomas' legacy also gets a big boost with ~2FMVP, 3 Championships and 3 Finals Appearances. A large portion of fans would rank him as the GOAT pg or at least in that discussion.

Not too sure what happens to Philly. Or more specifically with Doctor J. They probably win those finals LA did, but its debatable whether Iriving ever wins FMVP. Andrew Toney was a pretty damn good scorer then, and when they lost in the 82 finals, he was actually Philly's leading scorer. When they won in '83, Malone was their best player and FMVP while Toney was arguably better than Irving on offense. Looking at it objectively he probably wins it in '80. Still, individually, compared to Bird and Isiah, Doc's team success wouldn't benefit him as greatly. Most of that is because of age, and in Bird's case, well, he was just a better player.

Pretty much.

But also, the NBA may not be as popular without Magic. Bird got a lot of attention for sure, because he was so unique. But it was the rivalry that made ppl tune into 1984 Lakers vs Celts. It was perfect due to the franchise history and the star players. So without Magic or Bird both, the nba popularity wouldn't have grown as fast.

It probably won't get as popular till MJ.

[Hey Yo]

I love this thread as it shows Magic's impact and how competition was much more stronger in 80s...which adds to my case as Magic as the GOAT
:oldlol:........The West and Lakers division was mostly a pile of shit in the 80's.

[mr4speed]

If Magic Johnson did not exist

Do you think Bird now enters the goat debate as he would now have 5 rings and 4 finals MVPs to his name to go along with his 3 or 4 regular-season MVPs?

Do you think Kareem's legacy is not as great as it nowadays if he only finishes his 20-year career with one ring, which he won in 1971 alongside Oscar?

Do you think the 76ers become a dynasty under Julius Erving if they win titles in 1980, 1982 and 1983, and if so, how does that affect Erving's all-time ranking nowadays if he has two finals MVPs to go along with 3 rings and a regular-season Mvp.

Do you think the West becomes wide open for the entire 1980s meaning that we see many different West teams throughout the decade make it to the finals instead of only the Rockets and Lakers?



Also, do you think the greatest team rivalry of the 1980s now becomes the 76ers vs the Celtics as both teams would now know that if they make it to the finals that they would have a massive chance of winning the title against the weaker western teams?


And finally, Do you think the bad boys get more respect nowadays if they three-peat from 1988 to 1990 and if so how does that change Isiah's all-time ranking

This is 100% speculation, but I think LA still has a good team and gets some rings = why? because Jerry West liked Moncrief ( he actually wanted to "trade down" and get Moncrief and more picks and not take Magic) and if that happens LA still has a good team. Norm Nixon was a very capable point guard and I think LA still wins over the Sixers in 1980 as Kareem was awesome in that series. Maybe LA wins in 7 games? In 81 I think Boston wins,maybe against LA? as it is hard to repeat as champs and maybe there would have been a Bird vs Moncrief rivalry as these two players went against each other in the ISU vs Arkansas matchup in the 1979 NCAA tournament. Would Bird have pulled off the impossible and taken ISU to the championship winner circle? For 82 I think it would be the sixers and also for 83 so Dr J. is now the distinguished player to be remembered as a big part of the first team to be repeat champs since the 69 Celtics. I think Boston wins in 84 ( they would be hungry) but I think LA wins again in 85 as Kareem was the FMVP in 85 and Moncrief and Worthy and Cooper still make a good team. I think Boston wins in 86 and 87 ( even if Len Bias dies) as Magic was the real difference in 87. So I think Detroit wins in 88 and 89 and 90 giving the Bad Boys the first 3 peat before the Bulls.
I have 82 and 87 and 88 as the changes, so LA would have been the dominant team out west but I have them only winning in 80 and 85 = 2 rings not 5. The Sixers I have as 2 rings not 1. And Boston as 4 rings not 3 and Detroit as 3 rings not 2. Impossible to predict but definitely some interesting scenarios.

[light]

The NBA goes out of business.