Since most seem to agree that this era's stats are inflated - LeBron's stats to?

[hiphopanonymous]

LeBron has had an interestingly steady ~25ppg into his advancing years. But if guys like Zach Lavine are putting up peak Kobe numbers on crazy efficiency someone like Kobe didn't touch, than do we apply the same logic to LeBron James? And assume if the styles of play never changed he'd be doing more like 18-21ppg the past few seasons with a more pronounced decline? Not hating just curious and looking for good discussion :cheers:

[SATAN]

Do you take coasting into account?

[hiphopanonymous]

Do you take coasting into account?
We can of course take that into account but devils advocate: In his advancing years is this coasting a requirement for him to even be able to keep playing with decent effectiveness especially leading into the Playoffs ala Tim Duncan? And thus it really can't be adjusted for since it's totally necessary?

[Bronbron23]

I think if anything it just allows bron to maintain his stats latter in his career with less effort and minutes than he would have had to do it in era's past. If anything its just gonna help his longevity. If he was in the 90's i think he could still put up these stats. It would just take way more effort physically which could lead to his body breaking down faster and it wouldn't allow him to maintain his athleticism as long as he has.

[mehyaM24]

shortsighted analysis, op.

in theory lebron sees a drastic decline. the problem in reality though is lebron proving himself before the 3pt influx. take a look at playoff defenses from 06-16. they're comparable to the 90s & some are even better on average. lebron has been one the best postseason players ever, numberwise. and still going strong.

[FultzNationRISE]

It honestly doesnt matter. Lebrons stats at 36 dont change the evaluation of his career. That kinda thing might apply to an MJ type who is very stat reliant in terms of reputation. But Lebron became the GOAT by virtue of his leadership, his court awareness, his social justice activism.

Whether or not his stats are “inflated” with the rest of the generation or not is immaterial. Bc at the end of the day he’s still packing size where it counts.

[hiphopanonymous]

shortsighted analysis, op.

in theory lebron see a drastic decline, of course. in reality though lebron has proven himself before the 3pt influx. take a look at playoff defenses from 06-16. they're comparable to the 90s, and some are even better on average. lebron has been one the best postseason players ever, numberwise.
I don't think you understand what I'm pointing out. To clarify of course I know he played in the era prior to the 3 point influx and was statistically among the leaders that entire time. But he's old now, I'm curious that had the leagues current 3 point and pace trend not coincided with that if we'd have actually seen a substantial statistical decline like we'd normally expect

[mehyaM24]

I don't think you understand what I'm pointing out. To clarify of course I know he played in the era prior to the 3 point influx and was statistically among the leaders that entire time. But he's old now, I'm curious that had the leagues current 3 point and pace trend not coincided with that if we'd have actually seen a substantial statistical decline like we'd normally expect

lebron had 10 straight playoff runs averaging GOAT numbers. no breaks. no retirements. that already in and of itself is crazy longevity.

if we scrapped the last 4 years, or the run & gun three era, lebron still puts up big numbers. again he has proven over time to be durable enough. 18-21ppg is laughable but ya maybe a slight decline in overall numbers.

[ShawkFactory]

LeBron has had an interestingly steady ~25ppg into his advancing years. But if guys like Zach Lavine are putting up peak Kobe numbers on crazy efficiency someone like Kobe didn't touch, than do we apply the same logic to LeBron James? And assume if the styles of play never changed he'd be doing more like 18-21ppg the past few seasons with a more pronounced decline? Not hating just curious and looking for good discussion :cheers:

Perhaps, but what would it matter? Instead of scoring 43k for his career he'd just do 40.

[Micku]

Probably.

The league is really on a heavy offensive flow that the defense can't keep up atm.

But every stat of every era should be taken into context.

The best you could do is compare his stats among his peers more so than than across eras.

[hiphopanonymous]

lebron had 10 straight playoff runs averaging GOAT numbers. no breaks. no retirements. that already in and of itself is crazy longevity.

if we scrapped the last 4 years, or the run & gun three era, lebron still puts up big numbers. again he has proven over time to be durable enough. 18-21ppg is laughable but ya maybe a slight decline in overall numbers.
Well I said 18-21, you're right maybe 18 is too low but in the 2009 season the 11th top scorer in the league averaged 21ppg - LeBron is the 11th top scorer this season. So that'd maybe be good for 21ppg back in a non 3 point high paced era.

[light]

LeBron has had an interestingly steady ~25ppg into his advancing years. But if guys like Zach Lavine are putting up peak Kobe numbers on crazy efficiency someone like Kobe didn't touch, than do we apply the same logic to LeBron James? And assume if the styles of play never changed he'd be doing more like 18-21ppg the past few seasons with a more pronounced decline? Not hating just curious and looking for good discussion :cheers:

Zach LaVine's Player Efficiency Rating is only 22.8.

That would rank as Kobe's 12th most efficient season.

[dankok8]

Everyone else's stats are inflated but Lebron's are not. :pimp:

[Manny98]

We're going to act like players weren't putting up crazy stats back then as well?

This guy averaged 30ppg back then ffs

https://i.postimg.cc/d375pPNq/gettyimages-110698765-612x612.jpg

[hiphopanonymous]

We're going to act like players weren't putting up crazy stats back then as well?

This guy averaged 30ppg back then ffs

https://i.postimg.cc/d375pPNq/gettyimages-110698765-612x612.jpg
I was actually referring to 2009 ish era

[BigShotBob]

We're going to act like players weren't putting up crazy stats back then as well?

This guy averaged 30ppg back then ffs

https://i.postimg.cc/d375pPNq/gettyimages-110698765-612x612.jpg

In what world is Kiki Vanderweghe not averaging over 20+ ppg in this era?

[scuzzy]

Pick your poison brudda always the same nightmare that spoils worse with age


I've always welcomed Brans stats are inflated by mysterious forces so we can finally celebrate his triumphant 18yo ROTY putting up 40, 15, 10 in todays guidelines. Balls in your court
:cheers:

https://i.postimg.cc/3xNX0Xqp/51d5ry.jpg

[FultzNationRISE]

https://i.postimg.cc/3xNX0Xqp/51d5ry.jpg


:roll::roll::roll:

:djparty

[ralph_i_el]

Sure they are inflated, but he's also getting it done without playing all out. We have seen him up his game in the playoffs after coasting the regular season before.

[hiphopanonymous]

Pick your poison brudda always the same nightmare that spoils worse with age


I've always welcomed Brans stats are inflated by mysterious forces so we can finally celebrate his triumphant 18yo ROTY putting up 40, 15, 10 in todays guidelines. Balls in your court
:cheers:

https://i.postimg.cc/3xNX0Xqp/51d5ry.jpg
Not exactly.

You see, he's about 25ppg and the 11th best scorer in the league right now - which normalized down would be good for 21ppg if he were back in his earlier career say 2009 season just doing a quick comparison.

He was the number 2 scorer in the league back then at 28.8ppg. If he were in that 2009 form and managed to accomplish number 2 scorer today he'd be at 29.7ppg. Not even a full point better. I'm thinking because the coaches don't seem to let superstars play as many minutes today so the ceiling still looks lower but it definitely feels like more fringe elite players rack up stats that used to be reserved only for the best players of yesteryear. Guys who are top 20 today score better than guys in the top 10 of 10 years ago, and triple doubles are as ordinary now as double doubles were back then.

[8Ball]

He is playing 4-5 less minutes a game compared to before and driving a bit less.

So his stats are less but I would imagine his production per minute is about the same.

[scuzzy]

Not exactly.

You see, he's about 25ppg and the 11th best scorer in the league right now - which normalized down would be good for 21ppg if he were back in his earlier career say 2009 season just doing a quick comparison.

He was the number 2 scorer in the league back then at 28.8ppg. If he were in that 2009 form and managed to accomplish number 2 scorer today he'd be at 29.7ppg. Not even a full point better. I'm thinking because the coaches don't seem to let superstars play as many minutes today so the ceiling still looks lower but it definitely feels like more fringe elite players rack up stats that used to be reserved only for the best players of yesteryear. Guys who are top 20 today score better than guys in the top 10 of 10 years ago, and triple doubles are as ordinary now as double doubles were back then.
Right so normalize todays Bran down to 2009 numbers turns 36yo Bran into borderline Pippen....... while simultaneously turning his 2009 numbers by he played 2009 into a whopping 45,10,10 naturally (based on your homecooked inflation theory formula)

Just typical rubberband affect. Or is it only a one way street? Possibly your recipe only addresses reverse inflation. Reminds me of how old school players would have such an easy time adjusting into todays evolved game but absolutely no way would modern players de-evolve and adjust to 80's old school tricks.

2009 Bran sounds nice as hell by your inflation formula calculations btw, let me know when you get the digits from the lab

All ears

[Smoke117]

Bran is definitely enjoying the fact that you can't play any real defense anymore in this league. His numbers would not be holding steady like this 15 years ago that's for sure. As I pointed out before, in 2004 the Spurs had the number one defensive rating in the league with a 94.1. This season the Lakers lead with a 106.2. That's a massive disparity. It's an entirely different league.

[HoopsNY]

LeBron has had an interestingly steady ~25ppg into his advancing years. But if guys like Zach Lavine are putting up peak Kobe numbers on crazy efficiency someone like Kobe didn't touch, than do we apply the same logic to LeBron James? And assume if the styles of play never changed he'd be doing more like 18-21ppg the past few seasons with a more pronounced decline? Not hating just curious and looking for good discussion :cheers:

You hit it on the nail.

[HoopsNY]

In what world is Kiki Vanderweghe not averaging over 20+ ppg in this era?

lol bingo. The 80s, right on this forum, and seemingly in most of the media and basketball world, is regarded as the golden era of basketball. Between 1982-88, Kiki averaged 25 PPG. He was an excellent shooter and would thrive in this era.

[2much_knowledge]

These inflated numbers of the modern Nba are all smoke and mirrors. Even bran fans can't recognize that Miami bron is the best version because they get confused with their little inflated numbers

Casuals shit

[LAL]

His stats are so fake. So fake. He doesn't really look good out there. 36 year old, 260 pound slow unskilled ball handler. He better win again this season with AD carrying or young guys on the team will start complaining and put pressure on him. He looked out of place since his first game with Lakers. Trading half of his cavs teammates in 18 too. Missing playoffs in 19 with his old stat padding ass. Still "coasting" in the playoffs last year. Untill it was time to get that fmvp against jimmy and the beach boys, jimmy outplayed him.

[Spurs m8]

The king of stat padding in the inflated stats era....is this a serious question?

This guy has literally mastered the art of padding the first 3 quarters...its what he does.

[Manny98]

In what world is Kiki Vanderweghe not averaging over 20+ ppg in this era?
He averaged 30 in the 80s

Do you really think he's going to average over that in today's league? :oldlol:

If according to the people that act like today's numbers are so inflated then you think that Kiki could average over 30ppg in today's league an I correct?

[dankok8]

Right so normalize todays Bran down to 2009 numbers turns 36yo Bran into borderline Pippen....... while simultaneously turning his 2009 numbers by he played 2009 into a whopping 45,10,10 naturally (based on your homecooked inflation theory formula)

Just typical rubberband affect. Or is it only a one way street? Possibly your recipe only addresses reverse inflation. Reminds me of how old school players would have such an easy time adjusting into todays evolved game but absolutely no way would modern players de-evolve and adjust to 80's old school tricks.

2009 Bran sounds nice as hell by your inflation formula calculations btw, let me know when you get the digits from the lab

All ears

Stat inflation is not that extreme but could 2009 Lebron who was then putting up 28/7/7 on 59 %TS average 31/8/8 on 62 %TS in today's era if he went for it? Without breaking a sweat IMO... Likewise current Lebron's statline of 25/8/8 on 59 %TS would be 23/7/7 on 56 %TS in 2009. Whoever doesn't think 2009 Lebron is much better than current Lebron doesn't have eyes LOL.

[BigShotBob]

He averaged 30 in the 80s

Do you really think he's going to average over that in today's league? :oldlol:

If according to the people that act like today's numbers are so inflated then you think that Kiki could average over 30ppg in today's league an I correct?

He averaged 29 at his peak.

Peak Kiki in this league would average 30 or more. Way more space and freedom of movement, more freethrows because he's tall and lanky and when he drives he'll create a lot of contact, more three's too.

Go watch some actual footage of him play.

[Gudo]

He averaged 29 at his peak.

Peak Kiki in this league would average 30 or more. Way more space and freedom of movement, more freethrows because he's tall and lanky and when he drives he'll create a lot of contact, more three's too.

Go watch some actual footage of him play.

Shit I didnt know who this guy was. Just watched some youtube and he can certainly play. I like the quick first step and touch from the outside.


https://youtu.be/8QJkg7ZyNCI

[Stanley Kobrick]

brans assists are inflated too and so are his field goals accuracy. he purposely buffs his minutes per game it would be 22 mpg in 90's.

[Manny98]

He averaged 29 at his peak.

Peak Kiki in this league would average 30 or more. Way more space and freedom of movement, more freethrows because he's tall and lanky and when he drives he'll create a lot of contact, more three's too.

Go watch some actual footage of him play.
:roll::roll:

[hiphopanonymous]

:roll::roll:
What is your reasoning that he wouldn't average that much? 29ppg in the more physically defended 80's very easily could be 30+ with the way the rules are right now

[mehyaM24]

Well I said 18-21, you're right maybe 18 is too low but in the 2009 season the 11th top scorer in the league averaged 21ppg - LeBron is the 11th top scorer this season. So that'd maybe be good for 21ppg back in a non 3 point high paced era.

ya 18 is way too low. lebron averages 26 a game NOW. i could see 23 maybe 24 on a good clip back in 2009. not some crazy dropoff like you're imagining. like i said, lebron has proven over time to have great longevity regardless of the era.


Right so normalize todays Bran down to 2009 numbers turns 36yo Bran into borderline Pippen....... while simultaneously turning his 2009 numbers by he played 2009 into a whopping 45,10,10 naturally (based on your homecooked inflation theory formula)

Just typical rubberband affect. Or is it only a one way street? Possibly your recipe only addresses reverse inflation. Reminds me of how old school players would have such an easy time adjusting into todays evolved game but absolutely no way would modern players de-evolve and adjust to 80's old school tricks.

2009 Bran sounds nice as hell by your inflation formula calculations btw, let me know when you get the digits from the lab

All ears

damn, surgical dissection :applause: guess there was no response to that lol

[scuzzy]

ya 18 is way too low. lebron averages 26 a game NOW. i could see 23 maybe 24 on a good clip back in 2009. not some crazy dropoff like you're imagining. like i said, lebron has proven over time to have great longevity regardless of the era.



damn, surgical dissection :applause: guess there was no response to that lolLooks like it clicked


Sometimes the meme doesn't register, I had to bring out the chainsaw and spell it out.


Still anticipating those 09 Bran results from the lab doe:pimp:

[warriorfan]

09 LeBron today would average 50/15/15 while losing to Dwight Howard and Rafer Alston.

[Hey Yo]

lol bingo. The 80s, right on this forum, and seemingly in most of the media and basketball world, is regarded as the golden era of basketball. Between 1982-88, Kiki averaged 25 PPG. He was an excellent shooter and would thrive in this era.

So the West defense was something to write home about between 82 and 88?

[Hey Yo]

What is your reasoning that he wouldn't average that much? 29ppg in the more physically defended 80's very easily could be 30+ with the way the rules are right now

The West was considered physically defensive in the 80's???

:oldlol:

[Axe]

09 LeBron today would average 50/15/15 while losing to Dwight Howard and Rafer Alston.
Curry tallied 57 points while losing to a fat luka

Also tallied 47 points in game 3 of 2019 finals while succumbing to the likes of kyle lowry and fred vanvleet

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bron leads the league in RPM rn and is super efficient doing so. That shouldn't be happening with a player clearly removed from his prime

He wouldn't be producing like this back in the late 90's and early 2000's. Would still be one of the best players, obviously, but don't know what his numbers would be exactly.

His shooting would def be the first thing you'd notice plunge.

[Mr. Woke]

He averaged 29 at his peak.

Peak Kiki in this league would average 30 or more. Way more space and freedom of movement, more freethrows because he's tall and lanky and when he drives he'll create a lot of contact, more three's too.

Go watch some actual footage of him play.

Doubtful.

[Mr. Woke]

Modern NBA players are more skilled than NBA players of previous generations.

Plain and simple.

[light]

LeBron put up crazy stats back before anyone else was able to put up crazy stats. That's what made him LeBron James. That's what made him Video Game James. He did it during a slower era and he was the only one doing it.

[HylianNightmare]

4/10 shows you he ain't really about.it

[clipps]

I think LeBron would average a solid 21ppg, 5, and 5 on 46% shooting in the 90's.

[TheGoatest]

Straight out of high school rookie LeBron had better stats in 2003-04 than Michael Jordan had in his last season with the Wizards in 2002-03.

[clipps]

Rookie LeBitch had better numbers than a 40 year old with bad knees? Wow.

[TheGoatest]

Wow indeed when you consider that Jordan was a role player to James Worthy and Sam Perkins on a college team at the age when LeBron was asked to lead an NBA franchise.
Poor MJ. I guess he needed a few more years playing baseball or just relaxing his knees at his mansion. Jordan's limbs would fall apart from the rest of his body if he was the exact same age as LeBron right now and had the same mileage as LeBron.

[HoopsNY]

So the West defense was something to write home about between 82 and 88?

That definitely had something to do with it, but you're acting as if Kiki bombed it against the Eastern Conference in the 1980s. Let's take a look

Kiki's Stats from 1979-89 vs. some of the better defensive Eastern Conference Teams

vs. Milwaukee: 20/4/2 on 51%
vs. Atlanta: 21/3/2 on 54%
vs. Chicago: 22/3/2 on 54%
vs. New York: 23/3/2 on 55%
vs. Detroit: 25/4/4 on 61%
vs. Boston: 22/4/3 on 51%
vs. Philly: 19/3/1 on 51%
vs. Cleveland: 23/4/3 on 52%

Kiki's total averages in the 1980s were: 22.8/4.0/2.4 on .532%. So what are you talking about? Kiki remained consistent overall against Eastern Conference teams throughout the decade.

[8Ball]

I think LeBron would average a solid 21ppg, 5, and 5 on 46% shooting in the 90's.

You need to stop thinking. You produce too much garbage in your head that is rotting your brain out. Not good for in real life success.

[clipps]

You need to stop thinking. You produce too much garbage in your head that is rotting your brain out. Not good for in real life success.

:roll: All of this butthurt over big, rich black guy that plays basketball.

[8Ball]

:roll: All of this butthurt over big, rich black guy that plays basketball.

Yes its about those big rich black guys now. :roll: