Brand new footage of 1965 ECF game 1

[coastalmarker99]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu1KNvceDic

My personal notes from watching the recent footage that I got of the 1965 ECF game 1 is that Wilt clearly looks like he is the best player on the floor with his incredible defence and rebounding along with his scoring when his guards actually decide to give him the ball.


Two is that the Celtics backcourt looks to be far better than the 76ers backcourt as the 76ers backcourt seems to struggle to guard them a lot and also to score as they seem to take a lot of dumb shots that just make you want to :banghead:



Three is that Wilt maybe should have been more selfish offensively and demanded the ball go into him every single time down the floor as his backcourt seemed to brick a lot of shots that could have been used better if Wilt was taking them instead.



Four is that Al Bianchi is awful and clearly the worst 76ers player on the floor as he takes dumb shots which resulted in him going 1 of 11 from the field in game 1 of this series while Wilt was beasting against Russell with 33 points on 60 point shooting.



Five is Wilt's defence looks phenomenal as he consistently switched onto the perimeter players of the Celtics on P&R's and was able to keep up with them and scare them into turning over the ball or forcing them to take tough shots.



Six is that the Celtics are clearly a super team with a top 3 coach of all time to with Red and it a testament to Chamberlain that he took this lesser talented 76ers team up against the six-time defending champion, and 62-18 Celtics, with SIX HOFers, and at the peak of their dynasty... to a game seven, one-point loss.



As for the series, Chamberlain averaged 30.1 ppg, with 31.4 rpg (and a 25.2 TRB%), on a .55.5 FG% (in a series in which the two teams combined to shoot .41.3 overall), and with a .57.5 TS%, in a series in which the two teams combined to shoot a TS% of .46.5.





Also finally if Wilt had more help from his two-point guards in Al Bianchi and Larry Costello both of who shot under 40 percent for the series I think the 76ers win the series against the Celtics and then go on to win the title against a Baylor less Lakers team in the finals that year giving Wilt his first ring.

[light]

Unfortunately there is only 14 minutes of footage and not the entire game.

It isn't clear who the best player is.

I'm going to have to disagree with you about Wilt's rebounding.

Wilt can be seen making several mistakes just in this brief footage package. His jumps are ill timed (early) so he loses out on rebounds to Russell, who times his jumps better. We can see Wilt missing out 4 rebounds just in the first half of this clip because even though he is right on the scene, his timing and positioning is worse than his opponents.

We start to get the impression that Wilt grabbed 31 rebounds because he’s taller, stronger and more athletic than everyone else but if he had Russell’s patience and nose he would’ve had 51.

On one play Wilt gets the ball in the post and willingly makes himself tiny by bending over at the waist and dribbling very low to the ground - essentially making himself as short as Muggsy Bogues with Russell towering over him.

No. That is not ideal. He misses that shot, of course.

To me Wilt comes off as a kind of untethered and erratic physical specimen while Russell is more steady and under control.

It’s worth pointing out that while Wilt led the game in scoring, the smaller Bill Russell led the game in rebounds (32) and in assists (6).

6 assists is a lot in a game where both teams are shooting so poorly. The Sixers assist leader only had 3.

[LoneyROY7]

Why is the footage sped up?

You can't get a feel for the pace of the game at all.

[fourkicks44]

Those Sixers uniforms are awesome. Much better than most of the Sixers uniforms today.

Although Wilt is considerably taller than Russell, Russell's wing span for his height looks way bigger than Wilt's

Russell getting away with some fouls on Wilt in the paint. Reminds me of the refs not calling shit on Horford when he molested Joel Embiid in the playoffs and the refs swallowed their whistles. Some things never change huh?

Nice work with the post and upload, brother.

[coastalmarker99]

Those Sixers uniforms are awesome. Much better than most of the Sixers uniforms today.

Although Wilt is considerably taller than Russell, Russell's wing span for his height looks way bigger than Wilt's

Russell getting away with some fouls on Wilt in the paint. Reminds me of the refs not calling shit on Horford when he molested Joel Embiid in the playoffs and the refs swallowed their whistles. Some things never change huh?

Nice work with the post and upload, brother.


Thanks, man for the kind words and also yeah you are indeed right that some things never change with the refs screwing the 76ers over in the playoffs against the Celtics.

[Psileas]

Man, Wilt, despite this footage not including just highlights of him, but also a few bad or indifferent plays, looks constantly better than Russell, regardless of the game we're seeing. Note that, among the games available on video, Russell's teams almost always win, while in reality Wilt's teams won 40% of these games (41% of playoff games). So, if Wilt looks better in footage his team almost always loses, there's not a cat's chance in hell he's going to look worse in a more fairly balanced ratio of win-loss footage, let alone in games his team wins.

[coastalmarker99]

Man, Wilt, despite this footage not including just highlights of him, but also a few bad or indifferent plays, looks constantly better than Russell, regardless of the game we're seeing. Note that, among the games available on video, Russell's teams almost always win, while in reality Wilt's teams won 40% of these games (41% of playoff games). So, if Wilt looks better in footage his team almost always loses, there's not a cat's chance in hell he's going to look worse in a more fairly balanced ratio of win-loss footage, let alone in games his team wins.


I have never understood the narrative that Russell was a greater player than Wilt as before Wilt died in 1999 and was able to defend himself and his legacy everyone was saying the complete opposite including Russell.

A 36-year-old Wilt with the Lakers is playing better than I used to -- passing off, coming out to set up screens, picking up guys outside, and sacrificing himself for team play."-- Bill Russell, Great Moments in Pro Basketball, (by Sam Goldaper) p.24


Bill Russell, go up for Glory P.100 I'm probably the only person on the planet who knows how good you really are'' Bill Russell to Wilt Chamberlain.

Bill Russell ''Wilt thought rightfully so that he was the greatest basketball player who's ever lived''.

''Because I knew Wilt as well as I did, I was always seeking to take advantage of his good nature. I did whatever I could to make sure I would never get him angry or fired up as I knew he would destroy me if I did''

"Nobody seems to appreciate what an incredible player Wilt was," Russell said at the 1997 All-Star Game when the league named and honoured its 50 greatest players. "He was the best player of all time because he dominated the floor like nobody else ever could. To be that big and that athletic was special."


Wilt was the smartest player I played against Interview from Russell’s House ''I could never play Wilt the same two games in a row because it would not work and so through the whole time we played against each other every game was different''.

The first time I ever played Wilt he destroyed me so bad that he put enough fear into my heart that I was going to do anything to beat Wilt.



It's likely The Celtics with Wilt still win 11 rings as he was on another level as a player compared to Russell and that's no disrespect to Russell that's just how good Wilt was as a basketball player besides shooting free throws in which he sucked at doing.

[AlternativeAcc.]

And they say we haven't evolved in the past 60 years :roll:

That footage doesn't even resemble modern human movement. Might as well dig up the fossil record while you're at it

[DoctorP]

Footage was shot at 24 and sped up to fit 30 fps in the conversion probably, nevertheless. these guys are not as unskilled as casuals may think. They played plenty of school ball and then made it to pro ball. I'm seeing decent skills here.

[DoctorP]

Man, Wilt, despite this footage not including just highlights of him, but also a few bad or indifferent plays, looks constantly better than Russell, regardless of the game we're seeing. Note that, among the games available on video, Russell's teams almost always win, while in reality Wilt's teams won 40% of these games (41% of playoff games). So, if Wilt looks better in footage his team almost always loses, there's not a cat's chance in hell he's going to look worse in a more fairly balanced ratio of win-loss footage, let alone in games his team wins.

Wilt was def better than Russell. Thing was Wilt-ball was not as good as the Celtics balanced attack. So Russell would get the upper hand due to a stacked team. Sound familiar?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Footage was shot at 24 and sped up to fit 30 fps in the conversion probably, nevertheless. these guys are not as unskilled as casuals may think. They played plenty of school ball and then made it to pro ball. I'm seeing decent skills here.

I've seen monkeys in the amazon rainforest pass around fruit and rodents with a higher degree of skill and fluidity

It is what it is

Watch any random JV middle school game today and you'll see much more skill as well.

That footage is cancer

[Stanley Kobrick]

I've seen monkeys in the amazon rainforest pass around fruit and rodents with a higher degree of skill and fluidity

It is what it is

Watch any random JV middle school game today and you'll see much more skill as well.

That footage is cancer
:milton

[Psileas]

"Nobody seems to appreciate what an incredible player Wilt was," Russell said at the 1997 All-Star Game when the league named and honoured its 50 greatest players. "He was the best player of all time because he dominated the floor like nobody else ever could. To be that big and that athletic was special."


'97 All-Star Weekend, eh? I "love" how this quote in that event gets buried under the media trying to shove "GOAT Jordan" (that's the active, 33 y.o, 4 title Jordan, not the retired, 35 y.o, 6 title Jordan) on our throats so hard they were asking several greats, not "who's the GOAT", but whether Jordan was the GOAT (so that they make it harder for them to answer in the negative).

[DoctorP]

I've seen monkeys in the amazon rainforest pass around fruit and rodents with a higher degree of skill and fluidity

It is what it is

Watch any random JV middle school game today and you'll see much more skill as well.

That footage is cancer

skills have developed over the course of 50 years of course but Im seeing good shooting form, good passing and dribbling. with the amount of reps these guys got between school and the pros, they had some skill development that wasnt anything a kid off the street could do at the time. The game has definitely evolved but these guys were paid shit and had jobs on top of their playing careers probably.

What did you expect? Jordan? Bird? lol

[AlternativeAcc.]

skills have developed over the course of 50 years of course but Im seeing good shooting form, good passing and dribbling. with the amount of reps these guys got between school and the pros, they had some skill development that wasnt anything a kid off the street could do at the time. The game has definitely evolved but these guys were paid shit and had jobs on top of their playing careers probably.

What did you expect? Jordan? Bird? lol

You're saying the best teams of 1965 were more skilled than kids off the street? And that these players had part time jobs to supplement their basketball careers?

Hmm

Definitely food for thought. Im not sure that doesn't make me even more appalled though

Thr best 1965 had to offer was part time diesel mechanics, and grocery baggers. That's sickening

The 80 or 90s wasn't much better though. From here on I refuse to rank any player pre 2000 in my top 10

[DoctorP]

You're saying the best teams of 1965 were more skilled than kids off the street? And that these players had part time jobs to supplement their basketball careers?

Hmm

Definitely food for thought. Im not sure that doesn't make me even more appalled though

Thr best 1965 had to offer was part time diesel mechanics, and grocery baggers. That's sickening

The 80 or 90s wasn't much better though. From here on I refuse to rank any player pre 2000 in my top 10

Im saying what I wrote. Do you know how to read?

Nobody cares about your top 10. Who cares?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Im saying what I wrote. Do you know how to read?

Nobody cares about your top 10. Who cares?

My bad, I thought you were being sarcastic. I thought we were role playing being retarded and oblivious, but apparently not. That's my bad

My top 10 is very important on here because my track record is the best of all time. I'm the most credible poster to ever grace the forum

[DoctorP]

My bad, I thought you were being sarcastic. I thought we were role playing being retarded and oblivious, but apparently not. That's my bad

My top 10 is very important on here because my track record is the best of all time. I'm the most credible poster to ever grace the forum

whatever. care about my top 10? no? good. i dont give a shit about anyones top 10 unless youre someone i respect which there are not many.

[getting_old]

No question the C's were the better team until 1966, then Wilt had the best team in the NBA from 67 through 73 (Bucks '71 was at peak performance, the only team reasonably better in that timeframe)

the 68/69 C's were barely running on gas fumes and old men who never should have taken those titles

Wilt didn't seem to be motivated at times, cost his teams more than a few titles from 68-73

great player, one of the finest physical specimens in human history, but hey... you know... oh well... lost again...

[getting_old]

You're saying the best teams of 1965 were more skilled than kids off the street? And that these players had part time jobs to supplement their basketball careers?

Hmm

Definitely food for thought. Im not sure that doesn't make me even more appalled though

Thr best 1965 had to offer was part time diesel mechanics, and grocery baggers. That's sickening

The 80 or 90s wasn't much better though. From here on I refuse to rank any player pre 2000 in my top 10


you are building and then murdering straw men from games 55 years ago?

[Jasper]

Footage was shot at 24 and sped up to fit 30 fps in the conversion probably, nevertheless. these guys are not as unskilled as casuals may think. They played plenty of school ball and then made it to pro ball. I'm seeing decent skills here.

exactly - IMO the movement of players is very good , and during the late 70's early 90's teams started playing ISO and the game started
slowing down... the NBA took note of it , and started minimizing defensive options to get the game flowing again.

[hiphopanonymous]

Unfortunately there is only 14 minutes of footage and not the entire game.

It isn't clear who the best player is.

I'm going to have to disagree with you about Wilt's rebounding.

Wilt can be seen making several mistakes just in this brief footage package. His jumps are ill timed (early) so he loses out on rebounds to Russell, who times his jumps better. We can see Wilt missing out 4 rebounds just in the first half of this clip because even though he is right on the scene, his timing and positioning is worse than his opponents.

We start to get the impression that Wilt grabbed 31 rebounds because he’s taller, stronger and more athletic than everyone else but if he had Russell’s patience and nose he would’ve had 51.

On one play Wilt gets the ball in the post and willingly makes himself tiny by bending over at the waist and dribbling very low to the ground - essentially making himself as short as Muggsy Bogues with Russell towering over him.

No. That is not ideal. He misses that shot, of course.

To me Wilt comes off as a kind of untethered and erratic physical specimen while Russell is more steady and under control.

It’s worth pointing out that while Wilt led the game in scoring, the smaller Bill Russell led the game in rebounds (32) and in assists (6).

6 assists is a lot in a game where both teams are shooting so poorly. The Sixers assist leader only had 3.
Where did you learn to play basketball?

Getting low in the post IS THE FUNDAMENTALLY CORRECT WAY to post up. Always has been. It's comments like this that to me, immediately expose who here is an actual basketball person and who's just an armchair expert.

https://youtu.be/UGnV7UMQHMc?t=55

"In the post, the lowest guy is going to win almost every single time"
Huh, might be why Wilt could drop 61 on Russell and own almost every scoring record in history now couldn't it? You literally called textbook posting up a mistake.

Also every rebounding highlight that goes in the hands of the guy who got it makes it looks like they timed their jump correctly. Every rebounding clip of a guy not getting a rebound shows that they didn't time it correctly... that's simply called a highlight for whoever got it - it doesn't reveal anything about the guy who didn't.. Want to know who rebounded better all game long? Look at the stat sheet.