Lebron has low assist creation compared to MJ, Kobe, KD, Kawhi, Bird, etc

[3ball]

because he doesn't create assists for teammates by being an assist target (off-ball)

Otoh, guys like MJ, Bird, and company created more assists by distributing and creating assists for teammates (being an assist target, aka off-ball).

So they had higher TEAM assists and a better ball movement brand that yielded better team ceilings/Finals record.

Carry on

[8Ball]

Garbage and Wrong.

Jordan is a Kyrie Irving level passer. Not highly skilled at it and mediocre.

Meanwhile LeBron is Magic Johnson level passer.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Agreed with OP. Lebron is that guy in pickup games who holds the ball all damn day and by the end of it you say "damn i'm never coming to these courts to play with this guy again". He's lucky to have alltime great offensive co stars on his teams like Anthony Davis (#1 in playoff career TS all time) or Irving (best player on #1 offense all time this season) to bail out his garbage lebron ball. Nobody fears Lebron when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. Even when Lebron does have the ball in his hands, a smart defender would guard him loosely and make him shoot). The rest of his offense is just driving in and lowering his shoulder, mostly getting away with offensive fouls.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career_p.html

Even if you include ABA, Anthony Davis is still #1 in playoff career TS.

[Hey Yo]

Can you post the assist creation numbers?

[light]

because he doesn't create assists for teammates by being an assist target (off-ball)

Otoh, guys like MJ, Bird, and company created more assists by distributing and creating assists for teammates (being an assist target, aka off-ball).

So they had higher TEAM assists and a better ball movement brand that yielded better team ceilings/Finals record.

Carry on

MJ, Kobe, KD, Kawhi, Bird = not point guards

Those guys are supposed to be targets. That was their role in their less successful systems.

[3ball]

MJ, Kobe, KD, Kawhi, Bird = not point guards

Those guys are supposed to be targets. That was their role in their less successful systems.


They were distributors with only 1 less apg than lebron, and also created assists for teammates by being assist targets off-ball (100% higher assisted rate than lebron).

So they created more total assists, which made their TEAMS have higher assists, brand of ball, and ultimately, team ceiling/Finals record

Indeed, the common thread in Lebron's Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists

[KingMambaFan]

Can you post the assist creation numbers?

[3ball]

Can you post the assist creation numbers?


apg + (assisted percentage x FG's made) = total assists created


Legend

apg = assists distributed

(assisted percentage x FG's made) = percentage of field goals that were assisted by teammates, aka assists created for teammates by being assist target (off-ball)

[tpols]

He's a product of AAU ball. Where one guy is QB. Problem is he cant shoot and makes others accommodate him. He's a team hopping Cam Newton.

[Uncle Drew]

What about his off ball passing?

[LAmbruh]

What about his off ball passing?
:yaohappy:

[scuzzy]

formula shows Lebron leads onball assisted birdfed creation %

[JohnMax]

Defensive attention Jordan draws opens up the passing game

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0GqF2BkqmjgF31fy/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/26BREYBcc1ENJE2kM/giphy.gif

[MrFonzworth]

So lebron got birdfed less than other greats & kawhi. Got it.

[Spurs m8]

His rock pounding is so cancerous as a team mate and boring to watch as a fan

[light]

Coaches trust LeBron to run an offense.

Coaches move Jordan, Kobe, KD and Kawhi off the ball because they're not trusted as point guards.

In other words, a coaches offensive goals cannot be met if they allow Jordan, Kobe, KD or Kawhi to possess the ball as much as a point guard.

Those guys have roles as wing scorers and coaches generally want them to stick to that.

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/mj-was-not-good-enough.png

[8Ball]

Coaches trust LeBron to run an offense.

Coaches move Jordan, Kobe, KD and Kawhi off the ball because they're not trusted as point guards.

In other words, a coaches offensive goals cannot be met if they allow Jordan, Kobe, KD or Kawhi to possess the ball as much as a point guard.

Those guys have roles as wing scorers and coaches generally want them to stick to that.

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/mj-was-not-good-enough.png

Imagine 1 of LeBrons coaches ever arguing LeBrons passing not good enough.

Jordan is just an inferior basketball player. Mediocre passing ability.

[clipps]

The opponent and their fans feared when MJ and Kobe had the ball with 5 seconds left. The opponents and their fans begged for LeBron to have the ball in his hands with 5 seconds left.

LeBitch is such a loser.

[8Ball]

Wrong.

LeBron a better clutch shooter in playoffs than both of them.

Enlighten yourself with facts so you stop being ignorant.

[clipps]

Wrong.

LeBron a better clutch shooter in playoffs than both of them.

Enlighten yourself with facts so you stop being ignorant.

LeBitches "clutch" shots come when the game is tied and there's no pressure. During any do-or-die situations, he always passes the ball off. Jordan, Kobe and Bird rise up regardless. I don't consider KD or Kawhi clutch players.

[8Ball]

Wrong again.

LeBron better clutch shooter when behind or tied game than both Kobe and Jordan with less than 1 minute left.

You don't watch basketball so leave the arguments to people with actual knowledge.

[8Ball]

Time to stop posting clipps. I own you like I own 3ball.

If you want higher level education on basketball PM me and I will get back to you in maybe 2024.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dce9jo1X0AE94fW?format=jpg&name=small

[TheGoatest]

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/mj-was-not-good-enough.png

https://i0.wp.com/media2.giphy.com/media/blqEBWV6iFjGM/giphy.gif

[clipps]

Wrong again.

LeBron better clutch shooter when behind or tied game than both Kobe and Jordan with less than 1 minute left.

You don't watch basketball so leave the arguments to people with actual knowledge.

I prefer not to watch collusion, flopping and whining. That's why LeBitch is, considered by many, a complete fraud and an embarrasment. Those numbers you posted are completely irrelevant.

[Hey Yo]

apg + (assisted percentage x FG's made) = total assists created


Legend

apg = assists distributed

(assisted percentage x FG's made) = percentage of field goals that were assisted by teammates, aka assists created for teammates by being assist target (off-ball)
Can you post those players assist created numbers.

[8Ball]

I prefer not to watch collusion, flopping and whining. That's why LeBitch is, considered by many, a complete fraud and an embarrasment. Those numbers you posted are completely irrelevant.

Your argument was:


LeBitches "clutch" shots come when the game is tied and there's no pressure. During any do-or-die situations, he always passes the ball off. Jordan, Kobe and Bird rise up regardless. I don't consider KD or Kawhi clutch players.

The facts are:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dce9jo1X0AE94fW?format=jpg&name=small


Now you are talking about something else.

[8Ball]

Imagine being so dumb that you would argue LeBron has low assist creation compared to MJ / Kobe / KD / Kawhi.

MJ and Kobe are Kyrie Irving level passers, simply mediocre and average. Not even Steph Curry level.

KD averages 4 assists a game.
Kawhi averages 2.8 assists a game.


I have mentally destroyed 3ball so much his arguments are getting worst and worst. But I enjoy destroying Jordan stans.

[clipps]

Imagine being so dumb that you would argue LeBron has low assist creation compared to MJ / Kobe / KD / Kawhi.

MJ and Kobe are Kyrie Irving level passers, simply mediocre and average. Not even Steph Curry level.

KD averages 4 assists a game.
Kawhi averages 2.8 assists a game.


I have mentally destroyed 3ball so much his arguments are getting worst and worst. But I enjoy destroying Jordan stans.

LeBitch is the better passer. MJ, Kobe, Kyrie, KD, and Kawhi are all better at everything else. You'll be okay. The world isn't ending.

[8Ball]

LeBitch is the better passer. MJ, Kobe, Kyrie, KD, and Kawhi are all better at everything else. You'll be okay. The world isn't ending.

LeBron is greatest player of all time. You'll be okay. The world isn't ending.

[sdot_thadon]

apg + (assisted percentage x FG's made) = total assists created


Legend

apg = assists distributed

(assisted percentage x FG's made) = percentage of field goals that were assisted by teammates, aka assists created for teammates by being assist target (off-ball)

So where are the numbers? And while you're at it if you don't mind can you explain how you differentiate whether an assist received was due to the recipient working off ball, the passer being brilliant, or another teammate attracting a double or rotation? If you can do that and still prove a point I'm sure some guys would buy it. Chances are you'll just post some fudged numbers that don't mean what you think they do....

[red1]

glad you still post here OP



http://images.thepostgame.com/assets/public/styles/story_main/public/jr-smith-trophy-shirtless-compressor.png
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b3/75/c7/b375c7a409b2c1eaafcf56ef23a110b3.jpg

[8Ball]

glad you still post here OP



http://images.thepostgame.com/assets/public/styles/story_main/public/jr-smith-trophy-shirtless-compressor.png
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b3/75/c7/b375c7a409b2c1eaafcf56ef23a110b3.jpg

2020 championship hurt him deep. :oldlol:

[3ball]

So where are the numbers?





We only have stats for 97' and 98' Jordan:


1997 Jordan.... 4.3 apg + (0.517 assisted rate x 11.2 made FG's) = 10.24 total assists created per game

2012 Lebron.... 6.2 apg + (0.374 assisted rate x 10.0 made FG's) = 9.94 total assists created per game


Lebron edges 97' Jordan in other years, but 97' Jordan produced far less than 87-93' Jordan... FAR less

Accordingly, Jordan created more assists overall.... (by getting comparable assists as a distributor, and far more than lebron as an assist target, aka creating assists for teammates).

One more thing that isn't included in that formula - Jordan's presence as a greater assist target and lower time on-ball allowed teammates to be on-ball more and have higher apg alongside him than otherwise - these increases in teammate assists alongside Jordan are indeed assist creation and should be included in the formula.. But there's no way to do so with complete accuracy, so it's left out.. However, it's an important component because higher higher teammate assists result in higher TEAM assists, which is why Jordan had higher assist teams than lebron's.. Jordan's off-ball game simply facilitated ball movement, which allowed higher teammate assists, higher team assists, and higher team ceilings (6/6)..

[SATAN]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/0b/0b64907e805f7bd89c163180d6aa400e8a07772d86026cfa0e 85f4dc4eecdee4.jpg

[Axe]

Remember when op claimed that he used to dunk over zach randolph?

[Axe]

Imagine being so dumb that you would argue LeBron has low assist creation compared to MJ / Kobe / KD / Kawhi.

MJ and Kobe are Kyrie Irving level passers, simply mediocre and average. Not even Steph Curry level.

KD averages 4 assists a game.
Kawhi averages 2.8 assists a game.


I have mentally destroyed 3ball so much his arguments are getting worst and worst. But I enjoy destroying Jordan stans.
3ball doesn't care tho, since he still spams his shit like a madman.

[3ball]

Imagine being so dumb that you would argue LeBron has low assist creation compared to MJ / Kobe / KD / Kawhi.

MJ and Kobe are Kyrie Irving level passers, simply mediocre and average. Not even Steph Curry level.

KD averages 4 assists a game.
Kawhi averages 2.8 assists a game.


I have mentally destroyed 3ball so much his arguments are getting worst and worst. But I enjoy destroying Jordan stans.


Lebron's teammates averaged more assists before they joined him, so he reduces teammates' assists, thereby lowering TEAM assists compared to Kawhi or KD

This is a statistical fact

So the OP stands... Lebron is poor at team assist creation compared to MJ, Kobe, Kawhi, KD, Bird, etc (guys who could play off-ball)

[AirBonner]

Op out here jacking off to LeBron meanwhile his wife is getting gangbanged by a bunch of white guys

[3ball]

Op out here jacking off to LeBron meanwhile his wife is getting gangbanged by a bunch of white guys


^^^ Translation: I have nothing left

Again, Lebron's teammates averaged more assists before they joined him, so he reduces teammates' assists, thereby lowering TEAM assists compared to Kawhi or KD

This is a statistical fact

So the OP stands... Lebron is poor at team assist creation compared to MJ, Kobe, Kawhi, KD, Bird, etc (guys who could play off-ball)