If you replaced bill Russell with gobert [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

coastalmarker99

03-15-2021, 06:11 PM

If Toody can’t guard Jokic how the hell would he guard Wilt?

Wilt would kill him and maybe instead of grabbing 55 rebounds on Russell he might grab 70 on Toddy's head while also dropping 45 points on his head.

In all seriousness, Wilt is too strong and too athletic for Rudy to handle so if Joel embarrassed him by dropping 40 and 20 on his head lord knows what a prime Wilt would do to him.

coastalmarker99

03-15-2021, 06:14 PM

Y’all gonna have to put me on bill Russell I don’t want to be this ignorant lmao

Russell was the greatest defensive player of all time and very athletic as well as he was fantastic at high jumping but even then Wilt averaged 30 and 30 against him on 50 percent shooting if Wilt averaged that stat line on the greatest defender ever what do you think Wilt would average on a far lesser player in Rudy.

Xiao Yao You

03-15-2021, 06:15 PM

Wilt would kill him and maybe instead of grabbing 55 rebounds on Russell he might grab 70 on Toddy's head while also dropping 45 points on his head.

In all seriousness, Wilt is too strong and too athletic for Rudy to handle so if Joel embarrassed him by dropping 40 and 20 on his head lord knows what a prime Wilt would do to him

Embiid didn't score 40 on Rudy. Shot under 50% against him

8Ball

03-15-2021, 06:17 PM

How many chips you think Celtics win? I think atleast 8

All of them.

RRR3

03-15-2021, 06:22 PM

Wilt would kill him and maybe instead of grabbing 55 rebounds on Russell he might grab 70 on Toddy's head while also dropping 45 points on his head.

In all seriousness, Wilt is too strong and too athletic for Rudy to handle so if Joel embarrassed him by dropping 40 and 20 on his head lord knows what a prime Wilt would do to him.
Agreed. Toody would be helpless against Wilt. I could see Wilt going for 80.

coastalmarker99

03-15-2021, 06:27 PM

Agreed. Toody would be helpless against Wilt. I could see Wilt going for 80.

Wilt dropped 62 points against Russell while being doubled and triple-teamed he would have most likely dropped 70 to 80 points on Rudy's head while absolutely shutting him down on the other end and holding him to about 10 to 8 points a game on 35 percent shooting.

Also, it must be noted that If Toody was there instead of Russell for Wilt to face every single year for his career then there is no doubt that Wilt would be known as the undisputed goat with 9 to 10 rings to go along with all of his records and MVPs.

Gohan

03-15-2021, 06:30 PM

I’ll never question wilt he has to be a top 5 player ever

RRR3

03-15-2021, 06:33 PM

Wilt dropped 62 points against Russell while being doubled and triple-teamed he would have most likely dropped 70 to 80 points on Rudy's head while absolutely shutting him down on the other end and holding him to about 10 to 8 points a game on 35 percent shooting.

Also, it must be noted that If Toody was there instead of Russell for Wilt to face every single year for his career then there is no doubt that Wilt would be known as the undisputed goat with 9 to 10 rings to go along with all of his records and MVPs.
High IQ post. Toody would be remembered as a Mel Counts level player if he played in the 60s.

Gohan

03-15-2021, 06:35 PM

Damn y’all hating on roost now y’all act like he’s a horrible player

RRR3

03-15-2021, 06:36 PM

Damn y’all hating on roost now y’all act like he’s a horrible player
He’s a good player he just would be used incorrectly in the 60s. They’d have him posting up and shooting running hooks and shit

coastalmarker99

03-15-2021, 06:37 PM

I’ll never question wilt he has to be a top 5 player ever

Prime Wilt is faster than Lebron or at the very least equal to his speed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JezoQM4uB8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B22U73v7kAA

Stronger then Shaq and every other player in Nba history

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXbuXGPdoY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrpmGuCmGnc

And also had a 40 inch plus vertical as a 7 footer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JC6ahiLDL4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqN1nQLByy4

Plus he was a very smart player as well and a gifted playmaker too as he led the Nba in assists as a center in 1968 with 8.6 a game.

It's clear that if you placed a prime Wilt against Ruddy he would utterly destroy him and make him look like an absolute joke.

dankok8

03-15-2021, 06:39 PM

Celtics are good enough that maybe they could win 2-3 with Gobert. He is nowhere near the player Russell was though, even with a time machine.

coastalmarker99

03-15-2021, 06:42 PM

He’s a good player he just would be used incorrectly in the 60s. They’d have him posting up and shooting running hooks and shit

His offensive game is complete garbage.

Wilt would be blocking all of his shots and sending them into the third row and also utterly embarrassing him in all areas of the game as Rudy is a complete scrub compared to Wilt.

Gohan

03-15-2021, 06:45 PM

Y’all got me wanting to watch wilt games now lol

HBK_Kliq_2

03-15-2021, 06:49 PM

I don't think Gobert would be that good. I can see Gobert as the skinny Nate Thurmond. Gobert would have Nate Thurmond type resume if he played in that era I think.

7× NBA All-Star (1965–1968, 1970, 1973, 1974)
2× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1969, 1971)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1972–1974)

coastalmarker99

03-15-2021, 06:53 PM

High IQ post. Toody would be remembered as a Mel Counts level player if he played in the 60s.

Wilt's teams lost to Boston in the playoffs in...1960, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, and 1969. His team won the championship in 1967. So 7 years between 1960 and 1969 Russell's team knocked out Chamberlain's team. Without Russell, Chamberlain could have won 7 more, bringing his total to 9 or 10 rings for his entire career if he beats New York in 1970 or 1973.

Without Russell, Chamberlain is a Babe Ruthian figure in basketball history. He would have retired as the leader in points, points per game, rebounds, and rebounds per game (eta - by huge margins). He would have been considered the best defensive player of all time. He most likely would have between 9 and 10 rings. The game would have been divided into pre-Wilt and post-Wilt eras.

eta - The fact that Russell's team was able to prevent this from happening is a fairly compelling argument for Russell's greatness. Imagine if Duncan's Spurs kept the Lakers to 1 championship!

coastalmarker99

03-15-2021, 06:55 PM

Celtics are good enough that maybe they could win 2-3 with Gobert. He is nowhere near the player Russell was though, even with a time machine.

Wilt would be now known by people today as the undisputed goat of basketball if Russell wasn't there to stop him throughout the 1960s. Imagine trying to argue against the guy who averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds for a season along with raking 8+ titles for his career.

coastalmarker99

03-15-2021, 06:57 PM

Celtics are good enough that maybe they could win 2-3 with Gobert. He is nowhere near the player Russell was though, even with a time machine.

This question got me thinking about how much not having Russell would have changed Kareem’s legacy. If Wilt wins 7 to 9 rings, and just 1-2 more MVPs, he’s clearly the undisputed GOAT from that point without another center on his level.

Kareem then comes into the league as the Kobe to Wilt’s Jordan. Even if he has the exact same career, I’m not sure he’d ever escape Wilt’s shadow. Because Russell wasn’t as offensively dominant, and Wilt was perceived to be more focused on stats than winning, Kareem is often looked at as their equal or even better (FWIW, I don't think he was better then Wilt was as a player.)

But Wilt becomes the NBA’s Babe Ruth without Russell. He would have been the best scorer, rebounder, defender, AND winner in NBA history. No other center could ever be on his level at that point.

Xiao Yao You

03-15-2021, 07:12 PM

He’s a good player he just would be used incorrectly in the 60s. They’d have him posting up and shooting running hooks and shit

What you mean like Russell? Russell's hook was ugly

RRR3

03-15-2021, 07:18 PM

What you mean like Russell? Russell's hook was ugly
Yes. Russell was also used incorrectly. Big men who can’t create for themselves efficiently should be just used for lobs and put backs. NBA knows this now though. Russell was a great playmaker though which would mean he’d still have offensive duties Rudy does not. Additionally I believe Russell was also elite at defending perimeter players which further separates him from Gobert.

Xiao Yao You

03-15-2021, 07:20 PM

Yes. Russell was also used incorrectly. Big men who can’t create for themselves efficiently should be just used for lobs and put backs. NBA knows this now though. Russell was a great playmaker though which would mean he’d still have offensive duties Rudy does not. Additionally I believe Russell was also elite at defending perimeter players which further separates him from Gobert.

Rudy is elite on the perimeter too. In the 60's he would have been camped out in the paint though. Wouldn't have had to worry about the perimeter

clipps

03-15-2021, 07:21 PM

No adjusting for era just replace gobert and how he plays now for bill Russell back then

The fact that Gobert's limited skill set allows him to be one of the top centers in the league just shows that Bill Russell and Wilt would have dominated without "adjusting for era."

RRR3

03-15-2021, 07:25 PM

Rudy is elite on the perimeter too. In the 60's he would have been camped out in the paint though. Wouldn't have had to worry about the perimeter
Rudy is absolutely not elite guarding the perimeter, literally watch last year’s playoffs for the first time in your life.

coastalmarker99

03-15-2021, 07:49 PM

Rudy is absolutely not elite guarding the perimeter, literally watch last year’s playoffs for the first time in your life.

What's his obsession with proving that Rudy can actually guard the perimeter when we all know he can't no matter how hard he tries.

Xiao Yao You

03-15-2021, 07:51 PM

What's his obsession with proving that Rudy can actually guard the perimeter when we all know he can't no matter how hard he tries.

He does it all the time. Ideally he doesn't have to because teams will kill them at the rim

Xiao Yao You

03-15-2021, 07:57 PM

this is from last summer but...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bendowsett/2020/06/29/rudy-goberts-improved-perimeter-defense-is-an-major-tool-for-the-utah-jazz/?sh=16df709d75c5

The NBA’s stingiest defenders against isolation possessions, per that same tracking data (minimum 75 possessions defended, a sample of 130 players):
1. Rudy Gobert: 0.688 points per chance allowed
2. Jerami Grant: 0.702 points per chance
3. Jrue Holiday: 0.709 points per chance

better than any guard or player in the league

There’s been mostly steady progression here over the course of his career, with one exception (2017-18, part of which Gobert played in pain while dealing with multiple injuries):
· 2014-15: 0.958 points per chance allowed (72 possessions)
· 2015-16: 0.881 points per chance allowed (67 possessions)
· 2016-17: 0.807 points per chance allowed (109 possessions)
· 2017-18: 1.053 points per chance allowed (94 possessions)
· 2018-19: 0.891 points per chance allowed (128 possessions)
· 2019-20: 0.688 points per chance allowed (160 possessions)

and just getting better

hiphopanonymous

03-15-2021, 08:07 PM

Wilt instantly 8-peats
This

Reggie43

03-15-2021, 08:45 PM

Russell had a dominant personality and is the ultimate competitor and winner. He instilled fear on people coming to the paint and understood the game masterfully on both ends so comparing him to guys just because they could also rebound and defend is absurd because his value is way above those skills alone.

Xiao Yao You

03-15-2021, 08:50 PM

Reggie43

03-15-2021, 08:54 PM

Gobert instills fear on people too. Players usually avoid him

as does Myles Turner but you and I both know it is not the same as Bill Russell's impact.

Axe

03-15-2021, 10:04 PM

Gobert instills fear on people too. Players usually avoid him
Well, he's quite big.

RRR3

03-15-2021, 10:29 PM

What's his obsession with proving that Rudy can actually guard the perimeter when we all know he can't no matter how hard he tries.
He’s madly in love with Gobert, I wouldn’t take his opinion on him seriously.

RRR3

03-15-2021, 10:30 PM

He does it all the time. Ideally he doesn't have to because teams will kill them at the rim
He cannot guard small guards lmao. Stop it.

Gohan

03-15-2021, 10:30 PM

He’s madly in love with Gobert, I wouldn’t take his opinion on him seriously.

There’s a player for every fan that makes you fall in love lmao

Gohan

03-15-2021, 10:31 PM

He cannot guard small guards lmao. Stop it.

After watching a certain game where Westbrook just abused him I agree he has trouble guarding the perimeter

coastalmarker99

03-15-2021, 10:32 PM

He’s madly in love with Gobert, I wouldn’t take his opinion on him seriously.

Yeah didn't the rockets run him off the court in 2018 and 2019 by luring him to the perimeter where he was getting killed by the Rockets guards so I can't understand his view of Gobert's perimeter defence?

Manny98

03-15-2021, 10:37 PM

Rudy is elite on the perimeter too. In the 60's he would have been camped out in the paint though. Wouldn't have had to worry about the perimeter
:roll::roll::roll:

RRR3

03-15-2021, 10:41 PM

:roll::roll::roll:
Next hell us Toody has a deadly post game and is an elite passer :yaohappy:

Gohan

03-15-2021, 10:46 PM

He pm’ed me and said “roody has a crossover dribble that can’t be hacked”
I’m astonished

Xiao Yao You

03-16-2021, 01:52 AM

He cannot guard small guards lmao. Stop it.

he's literally number 1 in the whole league. You stop it! I post stats to back it up. You say otherwise based on a play you saw or something you heard?

Xiao Yao You

03-16-2021, 01:54 AM

After watching a certain game where Westbrook just abused him I agree he has trouble guarding the perimeter

they beat Westbrook in a playoff series. Westbrook was a big part of that

Xiao Yao You

03-16-2021, 01:54 AM

Yeah didn't the rockets run him off the court in 2018 and 2019 by luring him to the perimeter where he was getting killed by the Rockets guards so I can't understand his view of Gobert's perimeter defence?

No they didn't. They lost because of a crappy offense. Their D was good enough to win

RRR3

03-16-2021, 01:55 AM

he's literally number 1 in the whole league. You stop it! I post stats to back it up. You say otherwise based on a play you saw or something you heard?
He’s number one in the entire league at guarding small guards? Seriously? RUDY GOBERT is the number one guy to put on small guards? :yaohappy:

Gee I guess he could guard Curry for a whole game then by this logic.

coastalmarker99

03-16-2021, 01:57 AM

Cmon now RRR3 and Xiao be civil to each other when talking about Rudy.

He is not that bad as a player as many people make him out to be

And he is also not that great as a player as many people make him out to be.

RRR3

03-16-2021, 01:58 AM

I am being civil. I honestly could have said something really mean after that last insane post but I didn’t. Gobert on Curry for a whole game good god. I shudder to think what would happen.

warriorfan

03-16-2021, 01:59 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp3AsIN89ZI&app=desktop&persist_app=1

RRR3

03-16-2021, 02:00 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp3AsIN89ZI&app=desktop&persist_app=1
The best small guard defender in the league, ladies and gentlemen.

coastalmarker99

03-16-2021, 02:00 AM

No they didn't. They lost because of a crappy offense. Their D was good enough to win

True I forget that detail I think the Jazz forced Harden to shoot horribly some games and they still lost those games which leave most of the justified blame to the Jazz offence and players such as Ricky who did nothing offensively for the Jazz.

Xiao Yao You

03-16-2021, 02:01 AM

Cmon now RRR3 and Xiao be civil to each other when talking about Rudy.

He is not that bad as a player as many people make him out to be

And he is also not great as a player many people make him out to be.

He's one of the best players in the league and has been for years. Hard to argue it. The advanced stats tell all if you can't tell by watching

RRR3

03-16-2021, 02:03 AM

He's one of the best players in the league and has been for years. Hard to argue it. The advanced stats tell all if you can't tell by watching
He is one of the best players in the league but that’s in terms of overall impact. We were strictly discussing guard small guards in this case and he struggles at that. Which isn’t surprising he’s a 7 footer and not elite in mobility.

Xiao Yao You

03-16-2021, 02:03 AM

He couldn't stop one of the great teams ever by himself several years ago. You got me! :facepalm

Xiao Yao You

03-16-2021, 02:05 AM

so now it's just small guards after I showed he's number one in the league at defending the perimeter which he wasn't supposed to be able to do. Keep moving the goal posts :roll:

RRR3

03-16-2021, 02:07 AM

so now it's just small guards after I showed he's number one in the league at defending the perimeter which he wasn't supposed to be able to do. Keep moving the goal posts :roll:
Dude, the post you responded to literally said small guards. Can you read?

If you want to change it to perimeter, no he is absolutely not the best perimeter defender in the league. That’s literally not possible at his height and mobility.

coastalmarker99

03-16-2021, 02:09 AM

Dude, the post you responded to literally said small guards. Can you read?

If you want to change it to perimeter, no he is absolutely not the best perimeter defender in the league. That’s literally not possible at his height and mobility.

I think Ben Simmons has become the best perimeter defender in the league this season in all honestly.

RRR3

03-16-2021, 02:12 AM

I think Ben Simmons has become the best perimeter defender in the league this season in all honestly.
Good chance he is because he’s actually a wing and not a center. I don’t think a center has ever been the best perimeter defender in the league. Maybe Bill Russell was but I can’t think of another time where that would have been true.

Xiao Yao You

03-16-2021, 02:15 AM

Dude, the post you responded to literally said small guards. Can you read?

If you want to change it to perimeter, no he is absolutely not the best perimeter defender in the league. That’s literally not possible at his height and mobility.

Rudy is absolutely not elite guarding the perimeter, literally watch last year’s playoffs for the first time in your life.

JohnMax

03-16-2021, 02:17 AM

Gobert could easily do what Wilt did against unathletic, undersized white players. He easily would've been second best player after Wilt.

To counter their dominance, league would've allowed more black players in.

RRR3

03-16-2021, 02:18 AM

Rudy is absolutely not elite guarding the perimeter, literally watch last year’s playoffs for the first time in your life.
1. That wasn’t the post you were responding to in this case.
2. He’s not. If he gets switched on to a talented perimeter player the opposing team is happy. I don’t expect him to be either, there’s not really much he could do to be any better on the perimeter than he is.

Xiao Yao You

03-16-2021, 02:19 AM

Xiao Yao You

03-16-2021, 02:21 AM

1. That wasn’t the post you were responding to in this case.
2. He’s not. If he gets switched on to a talented perimeter player the opposing team is happy. I don’t expect him to be either, there’s not really much he could do to be any better on the perimeter than he is.

I was responding to Gobert not being able to guard the perimeter. The other team is happy because he's not at the rim anymore

RRR3

03-16-2021, 02:21 AM

the example you gave against Golden State Rudy was hobbled. If it was the regular season he wouldn't even have been playing. He missed a game in the previous series after tweeking his knee. You can see knee braces on. Same injury that keep him a month 3 times in the regular season. You guys really have to dig :oldlol:
So if Rudy is switched onto Steph at the 3PT line you think he’ll do a better job than Mike Conley would? Just using someone else on the Jazz.

light

03-16-2021, 03:23 PM

How many chips you think Celtics win? I think atleast 8

Gobert would need a brain transplant.

Bill Russell won back-to-back titles while simultaneously serving as the head coach and the starting center of the Boston Celtics.

clipps

03-16-2021, 11:43 PM