Lebron hand-picked the preseason favorite in 11' & 15', and then mostly lost

[3ball]

He turns favorites into whimpering underdogs and then barely meets those underdog expectations (4/10)

That's the historical record

so do NOT claim this guy is a winner - he's a bonifide loser on the court by any definition - he mostly loses everywhere he goes and mostly loses with super-teams.

How did lebron only win 50-something games with prime Kyrie, while Curry and Kawhi flirt with 70-win dynasties despite less help?.. and how did lebron go 2/4 with Kobe-Pau II (wade/Bosh)??.. the evidence is clear.. lebron is a loser.

[RRR3]

OP is 5’3.

[Gudo]

I give him a lot of credit for the chip in CLE. Otherwise, I’m not a fan of his route. Just does not feel authentic.

[Airupthere]

What I've been saying. If you're going to hand-pick your teammates, at least have a winning record. But he didn't.

[3ball]

I give him a lot of credit for the chip in CLE. Otherwise, I’m not a fan of his route. Just does not feel authentic.


Lebron should get knocked for not having a dynasty and dominant favorite with Kyrie

How did lebron only win 50-something games with prime Kyrie, while Curry and Kawhi flirt with 70-win dynasties despite less help?.. and how did lebron go 2/4 with Kobe-Pau II (wade/Bosh)??..




I give him a lot of credit for the chip in CLE. Otherwise, I’m not a fan of his route. Just does not feel authentic.


What if Rik Smits (2nd option) outplayed Shaq in the 2000 Finals - would Reggie Miller get credit for a goat accomplishment by winning that series?

What if KJ outplayed MJ in the 93' Finals - would Barkley get credit for a goat accomplishment?

You can do this with any Finals... What if Kenyon outplayed Duncan in the 03' Finals - would Kidd get credit for a goat accomplishment?..

So why does Lebron get credit in 2016?




I give him a lot of credit for the chip in CLE. Otherwise, I’m not a fan of his route. Just does not feel authentic.


It's impossible to lose when your 2nd option is destroying the opposing 1st option, so Lebron deserves blame for needing 7 games given how great Kyrie was (it's historic for a 2nd option to outplay the league MVP in the Finals) - the only reason the Cavs needed 7 was because Lebron wet the bed thru 4 (24 and 6 TO's).

It's a classic case of overrating, aka "he mostly loses, so lets over-celebrate the 1 time he wins"...

He led 5 categories, but he had an equal-scoring partner and therefore shared the load.. His 30/11/9 with an equal scoring partner and "just trying to win 1" expectation/attitude is a low bar compared to Jordan's 41/9/6 with all eyes on him (no equal-partner) and the "win everytime" burden/expectation...

We should praise Jordan for achieving the dominant position and winning expectation, but instead Lebron is praised for achieving weaker teams and underdog status, with a "just trying to win 1" low bar expectation.. aka he's praised for losing by lionizing it into "he's such an underdog wow".. it's bizarro world




I give him a lot of credit for the chip in CLE. Otherwise, I’m not a fan of his route. Just does not feel authentic.


Ultimately, Lebron should've had dominant dynasties with his super-teams and instead had whimpering underdogs (and barely met those underdog expectations, aka 4/10).. Heck, he had the Curry-killer but lost to KD by record amount, while harden and the pre-kawhi clippers were competitive.. this also happened in 2014 when Dirk's 8-seeded Mavs nearly beat the Spurs, while Lebron's super-team was beaten by record amount..

Lebron's weak brand of ball (ball-dominance) simply doesn't get the most out of teams - it needs excessive talent to contend and still mostly loses - anytime Lebron didn't have a super-team, he was blown away by championship comp.. (edit: 26 on 35% in the 2008 ECSF.. Cavs defense kept them competitive).

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Also LeBron fans think their so damn good because supposedly LeBron's teams always suck when he leaves. Rockets have lost 17 straight this season, is James Harden the goat? His team sucks without him! That's LeBron fans logic.

Your team sucks without you because you never won a thing in your 1st Cavs run, milked the heat cast until you were getting blown out in record finals fashion, milked the Cavs roster until Kyrie Irving demanded a trade from your ass. He never left a title team in their prime like they make it out to be, f*cking morons.

[8Ball]

Jordan averaged 44 ppg against Boston in the 1st round and got swept.
Next year he averaged 36ppg in the 1st round and got swept again.

Jordan's high scoring was actually TOXIC to his team, so he can't win a series outside the 1st round without Pippen. Jordan has too many long robotic drives after another, which gets destroyed by good teams..


Jordan is 1-9 without Pippen.

[3ball]

Jordan averaged 44 ppg against Boston in the 1st round and got swept.
Next year he averaged 36ppg in the 1st round and got swept again.

Jordan's high scoring was actually TOXIC to his team, so he can't win a series outside the 1st round without Pippen. Jordan has too many long robotic drives after another, which gets destroyed by good teams..


Jordan is 1-9 without Pippen.


You're comparing Lebron's super-team favorites to Jordan's lottery 8 seeds from 1985..

Jordan's low seeds from 85-87' compare to lebron's low seeds in 04' and 05', not his favored super-teams

And Jordan's lottery 8 seed lost by less than Lebron's super-teams in 2014 (record loss)

Ultimately - despite hand-picking the league favorite, Lebron never reached the highest position of being a dominant favorite expected to win every year, so he's nowhere near goat

[ShawkFactory]

The Cavs won 66 and 62 games in back-to-back years, and Lebron had far less help than Kawhi and Curry when they were flirting with 70. Then they won 66 in 2013 with him missing 6 games (team went 2-4 without him; so thats a 70 win team if he plays them all).

He's proven that he can carry teams in the regular season, and now (especially since he's fvcking 36) he doesn't care about regular season wins. It's pretty simple.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lebron's teams were pre-season favorites from 2011 to 2016, and he went 3/6 in the finals. I think there aint much to be said about this, Lebron cant have a winning record even favored to win the rings.

[3ball]

The Cavs won 66 and 62 games in back-to-back years, and Lebron had far less help than Kawhi and Curry when they were flirting with 70. Then they won 66 in 2013 with him missing 6 games (team went 2-4 without him; so thats a 70 win team if he plays them all).

He's proven that he can carry teams in the regular season, and now (especially since he's fvcking 36) he doesn't care about regular season wins. It's pretty simple.


Lebron's super-teams were less favored then his 1 seeds in 09' and 10' because lebron's limited skillset can't fit with other great players - so the weakness of his super-teams demonstrate his lack of skill in fitting with a wide range of players.

Btw, the 2008 Cavs won 45 games and lost in the 2nd Round.

Then Mo Williams turned the Cavs into the league favorite by achieving higher BPM, PER, WS/48, and VORP than 90' Pippen..

So the Cavs had a better offensive sidekick than the 90' Bulls, and the #3 defense (#19 for the 90' Bulls).. Essentially, the 09' Cavs had good help on both sides of the ball (better than the 90' Bulls).. heck, their 66 wins is less impressive that Dirk's 67 wins in the West with a weak cast.

[tpols]

Also LeBron fans think their so damn good because supposedly LeBron's teams always suck when he leaves. Rockets have lost 17 straight this season, is James Harden the goat? His team sucks without him! That's LeBron fans logic.

Your team sucks without you because you never won a thing in your 1st Cavs run, milked the heat cast until you were getting blown out in record finals fashion, milked the Cavs roster until Kyrie Irving demanded a trade from your ass. He never left a title team in their prime like they make it out to be, f*cking morons.

Yup... he basically jumps ship when the team starts falling apart. Hops on his life boat and floats to another Yacht.

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron's super-teams were less favored then his 1 seeds in 09' and 10' because lebron's limited skillset can't fit with other great players - so the weakness of his super-teams demonstrate his lack of skill in fitting with a wide range of players.

Btw, the 2008 Cavs won 45 games and lost in the 2nd Round.

Then Mo Williams turned the Cavs into the league favorite by achieving higher BPM, PER, WS/48, and VORP than 90' Pippen..

So the Cavs had a better offensive sidekick than the 90' Bulls, and the #3 defense (#19 for the 90' Bulls).. Essentially, the 09' Cavs had good help on both sides of the ball (better than the 90' Bulls).. heck, their 66 wins is less impressive that Dirk's 67 wins in the West with a weak cast.

The Cavs won 66 and 62 games in back-to-back years, and Lebron had far less help than Kawhi and Curry when they were flirting with 70. Then they won 66 in 2013 with him missing 6 games (team went 2-4 without him; so thats a 70 win team if he plays them all).

He's proven that he can carry teams in the regular season, and now (especially since he's fvcking 36) he doesn't care about regular season wins. It's pretty simple.

Nothing you said refutes any of this ^. Bringing up Pippen in 90 (that argument has been had SO many times; you just ignore every point made against it) is moving the goal posts. Has nothing to do with Kawhi and Curry and their teams.

[tpols]

The Cavs won 66 and 62 games in back-to-back years, and Lebron had far less help than Kawhi and Curry when they were flirting with 70. Then they won 66 in 2013 with him missing 6 games (team went 2-4 without him; so thats a 70 win team if he plays them all).

He's proven that he can carry teams in the regular season, and now (especially since he's fvcking 36) he doesn't care about regular season wins. It's pretty simple.

And then he lost in the playoffs both times w/ HCA, and particularly to Dwight with the 66 win team. Curry and Kawhi won titles.

[ShawkFactory]

And then he lost in the playoffs both times w/ HCA, and particularly to Dwight with the 66 win team. Curry and Kawhi won titles.

That has nothing to do with anything, although I’m sure it was fun for you to say.

My point is that lebron has shown he can carry a team in the regular season. Only winning 50 games with Kyrie or whoever doesn’t matter at this point.

[RRR3]

That has nothing to do with anything, although I’m sure it was fun for you to say.

My point is that lebron has shown he can carry a team in the regular season. Only winning 50 games with Kyrie or whoever doesn’t matter at this point.
To this day I’m not sure what more people expected LeBron to do in the 2009 ECF. They are basically criticizing him for not being perfect. He put up 38/8/8 on elite efficiency in that series, and hit a GW.

[ShawkFactory]

To this day I’m not sure what more people expected LeBron to do in the 2009 ECF. They are basically criticizing him for not being perfect. He put up 38/8/8 on elite efficiency in that series, and hit a GW.

People also forget that Rashard Lewis hit two huge 3s, in game 1 and game 4, that completely changed the series. Who knows what happens if he misses those, or even just misses 1 of them.

[tpols]

That has nothing to do with anything, although I’m sure it was fun for you to say.

My point is that lebron has shown he can carry a team in the regular season. Only winning 50 games with Kyrie or whoever doesn’t matter at this point.

It has everything to do with everything. Who cares if you win 60+ but lose as favorite with HCA in the playoffs. Curry and Kawhi won at least once.

[8Ball]

You're comparing Lebron's super-team favorites to Jordan's lottery 8 seeds from 1985..

Jordan's low seeds from 85-87' compare to lebron's low seeds in 04' and 05', not his favored super-teams

And Jordan's lottery 8 seed lost by less than Lebron's super-teams in 2014 (record loss)

Ultimately - despite hand-picking the league favorite, Lebron never reached the highest position of being a dominant favorite expected to win every year, so he's nowhere near goat

LeBron won 66 and 62 games with Jordan level surrounding cast in 1986/1987.

Jordan averaged 44 ppg against Boston in the 1st round and got swept.
Next year he averaged 36ppg in the 1st round and got swept again.

Jordan's high scoring was actually TOXIC to his team, so he can't win a series outside the 1st round without Pippen. Jordan has too many long robotic drives after another, which gets destroyed by good teams..


Jordan is 1-9 without Pippen.

[ShawkFactory]

It has everything to do with everything. Who cares if you win 60+ but lose as favorite with HCA in the playoffs. Curry and Kawhi won at least once.

You're completely ignoring the point that I made. Whether or not a team won in the finals was not the topic of discussion. Curry and Kawhi had superior teammates to Lebron in 2009, this is not up for debate.

Of the times that Curry and Kawhi have "flirted" 70 wins in the regular season (outside of when KD joined), only once has a title been won. The Warriors in 2015. I don't care that Curry won in 2015 against a depleted squad. It doesn't doesn't matter to my point. I'll lay it out for you:

3ball: Kawhi and Curry were flirting with 70 wins in the regular season, Lebron was winning 50 with prime Kyrie. *this is the point that I then argued*

Me: Lebron won 66 with Mo Williams.

Again....my point was that Lebron has shown that he can carry a team in the regular season. Therefore, only winning 50 games with Kyrie or whoever doesn't matter.

[SouBeachTalents]

You're completely ignoring the point that I made. Whether or not a team won in the finals was not the topic of discussion. Curry and Kawhi had superior teammates to Lebron in 2009, this is not up for debate.

Of the times that Curry and Kawhi have "flirted" 70 wins in the regular season (outside of when KD joined), only once has a title been won. The Warriors in 2015. I don't care that Curry won in 2015 against a depleted squad. It doesn't doesn't matter to my point. I'll lay it out for you:

3ball: Kawhi and Curry were flirting with 70 wins in the regular season, Lebron was winning 50 with prime Kyrie. *this is the point that I then argued*

Me: Lebron won 66 with Mo Williams.

Again....my point was that Lebron has shown that he can carry a team in the regular season. Therefore, only winning 50 games with Kyrie or whoever doesn't matter.
It's a standard that they don't hold anybody else to

From '04-'13 the Big 3 Spurs won 60 games twice, with one of those 60 win years ending with a loss to an 8 seed :lol

Shaq & Kobe didn't win 60 games a single time their last 4 years together when both were considered top 3-5 players in the league

Even the stupidly stacked Warriors failed to crack 60 wins in 2/3 of the Durant seasons

[tpols]

You're completely ignoring the point that I made. Whether or not a team won in the finals was not the topic of discussion. Curry and Kawhi had superior teammates to Lebron in 2009, this is not up for debate.

Of the times that Curry and Kawhi have "flirted" 70 wins in the regular season (outside of when KD joined), only once has a title been won. The Warriors in 2015. I don't care that Curry won in 2015 against a depleted squad. It doesn't doesn't matter to my point. I'll lay it out for you:

3ball: Kawhi and Curry were flirting with 70 wins in the regular season, Lebron was winning 50 with prime Kyrie. *this is the point that I then argued*

Me: Lebron won 66 with Mo Williams.

Again....my point was that Lebron has shown that he can carry a team in the regular season. Therefore, only winning 50 games with Kyrie or whoever doesn't matter.


The point of this thread is to illustrate how he underachieved with top talent. Everybody knows LeBron can drag a bad team to high wins. What is being shown here is that he can't drag a great team to dynasty status. He only wins 50 something games with Wade, Kyrie, Bosh and Love as pre-season title favorites when he was expected to win more. This makes people think his teams were underdogs in the Finals when they never were... they just underachieved so much in the regular season that they appeared to be underdogs. In reality, they had favorite talent... and still mostly lost.

[ShawkFactory]

The point of this thread is to illustrate how he underachieved with top talent. Everybody knows LeBron can drag a bad team to high wins. What is being shown here is that he can't drag a great team to dynasty status. He only wins 50 something games with Wade, Kyrie, Bosh and Love as pre-season title favorites when he was expected to win more. This makes people think his teams were underdogs in the Finals when they never were... they just underachieved so much in the regular season that they appeared to be underdogs. In reality, they had favorite talent... and still mostly lost.
That is the point of almost every thread that 3ball has ever made. It's boring to discuss at this point so I went at something else.

He blatantly stated that Lebron only winning 50 with Kyrie is a contribution to him being a loser. The whole "everyone knows he can drag a bad team to high wins" is not a stance that 3ball has taken. Not in this thread (clearly) or ever. In fact, he has often argued the opposite. "Lebron has never carried a lottery team to the playoffs" or some variation is, I'm sure, a thread that you've seen him make. He's made 10-15 of those alone. At least that I've seen. I don't follow in the off-season.

[RRR3]

Tpols is legit just a shitty version of 3ball.

[tpols]

That is the point of almost every thread that 3ball has ever made. It's boring to discuss at this point so I went at something else.

He blatantly stated that Lebron only winning 50 with Kyrie is a contribution to him being a loser. The whole "everyone knows he can drag a bad team to high wins" is not a stance that 3ball has taken. Not in this thread (clearly) or ever. In fact, he has often argued the opposite. "Lebron has never carried a lottery team to the playoffs" or some variation is, I'm sure, a thread that you've seen him make. He's made 10-15 of those alone. At least that I've seen. I don't follow in the off-season.

I actually have to correct myself... Those Cavs weren't "bad" they were just historically mediocre for a championship potential team. They still had great defensive help. The thing is Dwight didn't have any star 2nd option either so it was still even. It's harder to blame him for losing in 2010 to Boston since they truly had multiple star talents.

[ShawkFactory]

I actually have to correct myself... Those Cavs weren't "bad" they were just historically mediocre for a championship potential team. They still had great defensive help. The thing is Dwight didn't have any star 2nd option either so it was still even. It's harder to blame him for losing in 2010 to Boston since they truly had multiple star talents.

If you remove both Dwight Howard and Lebron James from those teams, the Magic come out looking better. That's a Cavs squad led by Mo Williams and Delonte West. With Big Z probably being forced to play more minutes than he was capable of that time.

The Magic still have Lewis, Hedo, and Alston, with good 3 and D guys in Lee and Peitrus. They were definitely the better and more balanced team if you take out the two stars.

But either way, that series isn't really the end-all-be-all. Like I said earlier, Lewis hit a couple monster shots that turned 2 Cavs wins into loses. And the team as a whole hit 41% from 3 on over 25 attempts per game. Which you can attribute partially to the Cavs being forced to double Dwight because they didn't have a legit defensive big, and partially to luck. Sometimes guys get hot. Pietrus in particular was ridiculous.

[RRR3]

Tpols is legit just a shitty version of 3ball.
@Shawkfactory

[tpols]

If you remove both Dwight Howard and Lebron James from those teams, the Magic come out looking better. That's a Cavs squad led by Mo Williams and Delonte West. With Big Z probably being forced to play more minutes than he was capable of that time.

The Magic still have Lewis, Hedo, and Alston, with good 3 and D guys in Lee and Peitrus. They were definitely the better and more balanced team if you take out the two stars.

But either way, that series isn't really the end-all-be-all. Like I said earlier, Lewis hit a couple monster shots that turned 2 Cavs wins into loses. And the team as a whole hit 41% from 3 on over 25 attempts per game. Which you can attribute partially to the Cavs being forced to double Dwight because they didn't have a legit defensive big, and partially to luck. Sometimes guys get hot. Pietrus in particular was ridiculous.

The Cavs defense alone would carry them to a better record. Mike Brown coached great defenses. The Magic OTOH would have an awful defense without Dwight, who was by far the best defensive player in the league that year while being a dominant auto double on offense as well.

[ShawkFactory]

The Cavs defense alone would carry them to a better record. Mike Brown coached great defenses. The Magic OTOH would have an awful defense without Dwight, who was by far the best defensive player in the league that year while being a dominant auto double on offense as well.

Maybe, maybe not. But the records in the regular season don't account for what a matchup in the ECF will look like. When the game slows down, you're counting on Mo Williams and Delonte West to create offense. And this is against a team with very capable backcourt defense. Lee, Peitrus, and Alston could all get after it. Their interior D would be terrible, but the Cavs have literally no offensive threat underneath, so they wouldn't be able to take advantage like the Lakers and Celtics would.

And while the Cavs were sound defensively, let us not forget that Lebron was far and away their best defender.

[3ball]

That has nothing to do with anything, although I’m sure it was fun for you to say.

My point is that lebron has shown he can carry a team in the regular season. Only winning 50 games with Kyrie or whoever doesn’t matter at this point.


Winning only 50 with Kyrie is what made him an underdog to the 70-win Warriors

Otoh, if Lebron was flirting with 70 wins like Kawhi and Curry, the Finals matchup wouldn't be perceived as a huge mismatch, and lebron's shared load with Kyrie wouldn't get overrated into this underdog carry-job

Ultimately, lebron is praised for producing weaker teams and losers, whose rare victories are lionized into underdog miracles... But the reality is that lebron never reached the top position of a dominant winner that is expected to win every time.. so he's a fraud and nowhere near goat..

The dominant winner should get praised, not the perennial underdog loser

[RRR3]

Stop responding to Snivelball guys.

[Axe]

You're completely ignoring the point that I made. Whether or not a team won in the finals was not the topic of discussion. Curry and Kawhi had superior teammates to Lebron in 2009, this is not up for debate.

Of the times that Curry and Kawhi have "flirted" 70 wins in the regular season (outside of when KD joined), only once has a title been won. The Warriors in 2015. I don't care that Curry won in 2015 against a depleted squad. It doesn't doesn't matter to my point. I'll lay it out for you:

3ball: Kawhi and Curry were flirting with 70 wins in the regular season, Lebron was winning 50 with prime Kyrie. *this is the point that I then argued*

Me: Lebron won 66 with Mo Williams.

Again....my point was that Lebron has shown that he can carry a team in the regular season. Therefore, only winning 50 games with Kyrie or whoever doesn't matter.
'09 lebron is sort of similar to '19 giannis, well, in terms of leading their teams to at least 60 wins, top seeds in their conference and not advancing past the ecf in their respective years.

[ShawkFactory]

'09 lebron is sort of similar to '19 giannis, well, in terms of leading their teams to at least 60 wins, top seeds in their conference and not advancing past the ecf in their respective years.

The similarities end there. You can find numerous instances of this happening through basketball history.

[SATAN]

All trolling aside, OP is literally the most pathetic person I've ever encountered online. That's saying a lot.

[Axe]

The similarities end there. You can find numerous instances of this happening through basketball history.
I know but the coincidence is quite intriguing tho. Having that said, ofc bran will always be ahead of giannis no matter what.

[Jerry Springer]

I actually do think there were some areas where LeBron could have stepped up more in 2009, in particular his defense. His defense was pretty poor in the '09 series vs Orlando and practically exposed. I remember people were talking about how he was a DPOY candidate that year and he showed how he wasn't even close in that series. Stan Van Gundy assigned him to Rafer Alston, had him sag-off of him and the thing is LeBron didn't make much of an impact on help defense. He didn't really bother Dwight, I don't remember him pressuring the ball to take time off the clock. Kobe's help defense on Dwight in the Finals was a good bit better and he often stripped him or forced a deflection.

He also wasn't that good in some of the fourth quarters like missing 5 free throws in game 3 and a whole bunch of turnovers in game 4 late in the game. Game 6 was also pretty weak, 2 points in the fourth.

It is true he didn't get much help vs Orlando although I don't think that his performance was as astonishing as some people consider it and that he dosen't deserve any criticism at all for losing, especially considering he was favored to to win and had home court advantage.

[kawhileonard2]

He turns favorites into whimpering underdogs and then barely meets those underdog expectations (4/10)

That's the historical record

so do NOT claim this guy is a winner - he's a bonifide loser on the court by any definition - he mostly loses everywhere he goes and mostly loses with super-teams.

How did lebron only win 50-something games with prime Kyrie, while Curry and Kawhi flirt with 70-win dynasties despite less help?.. and how did lebron go 2/4 with Kobe-Pau II (wade/Bosh)??.. the evidence is clear.. lebron is a loser.

Also 2014, 2016 was the favorite

[Jerry Springer]

'09 lebron is sort of similar to '19 giannis, well, in terms of leading their teams to at least 60 wins, top seeds in their conference and not advancing past the ecf in their respective years.

People forget that Mo, West,Big Z and Varejao actually all played well in the elimination game too (not the entire series, but they were on in game 6), but Lebron pretty much just mailed it in at half time.

[3ball]

People forget that Mo, West,Big Z and Varejao actually all played well in the elimination game too (not the entire series, but they were on in game 6), but Lebron pretty much just mailed it in at half time.


That's true

Furthermore, the 2009 ECF was won in that game with the critical OT - I forget which game - either Game 3 or 4... Dwight was dominant in the OT and Lebron laid a big egg - he choked at the critical juncture of the series and the rest is history..

Overall, Lebron shot 30% on jumpers in the 4th quarter and lost 3 fourth quarter leads in that series - so ultimately, gaudy stat lines mean nothing without clutch, aka closing the deal, and Lebron has always struggled with that and needed a bailout sidekick to hit tough shots.

Mo averaged 18 on 38%, but Lebron has won with that kind of help before - just not against a top 5 SRS team - he never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick, so he never had a carry-job against a good team in 2 decades of playing.. lol

[FireDavidKahn]

Preseason odds mean absolutely nothing.

You can't account for injuries, trades, etc...

[red1]

2015 is a ring in my eyes



so we're at 7 rings now because 2017 and 2018 are ring-worthy seasons as well.


that's without even counting 2016 as the double-ring that it actually is.

[8Ball]

Jordan's odds of winning a playoff game without Pippen is 1-9

[3ball]

2015 is a ring in my eyes





MOSGOV 2015 FINALS... 14/8 on 55%
PIPPEN. 1996 FINALS..... 15/8 on 34%

Warriors were 1st-timers and Lebron could've beaten them if he didn't play like Iverson on offense and Kukoc on defense.

Btw, Pippen's caliber is easy to achieve because it's a low bar - JR Smith reached Pippen caliber in the 15' ECF - 18/8 on 59%

Finally, Lebron had the Curry-killer but lost to KD by record amount

[3ball]

.
Thread Cliffs


Lebron hand-picked the pre-season favorite from 2011-2016, but fell to the underdog or loser every year except the Ray Allen miracle in 2013... So Lebron turns pre-season favorites into underdogs or losers, and therefore is a complete fraud - he has a completely manufactured resume that began with the "decision" to form a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Jordan had a losing record 33% of the time, LeBron just 13% of the time and that number is dropping for LeBron again after this season. LeBron's got a long way to go to catch up to Jordan as a loser in the NBA.

[AirBonner]

MJ went 1-9 before big daddy pip got him a chip

[8Ball]

Jordan's odds of winning a playoff game without Pippen is 1-9

Is there no one else?

[KirbyPls]

MJ went 1-9 before big daddy pip got him a chip

Is this actually true? A "GOAT" contender who couldn't win two playoff games without another specific player?

Can someone verify?

[AussieSteve]

Without injuries to Love and Kyrie, 15 would have been a guaranteed chip. Then in 17 the Warriors signed Durant.

In the history of the game Lebron might be the only player that would even have won one chip from 15-18. Certainly one of very very few. No one is winning more than one with that cast and those opponents.

[Shooter]

mj went 1-9 before big daddy pip got him a chip

Is there no one else?

IS THERE NO ONE ELSE?

[kawhileonard2]

Also 2014, 2015.