Iverson vs Lillard - who is better?

[mehyaM24]

as the title suggests.

to make it more "interesting", say you surround both players with equal casts (that fit their skillset) - which team is more successful?

[Xiao Yao You]

Lillard. It's not close

[mehyaM24]

Lillard. It's not close

care to elaborate? what makes lillard better, and why isn't it close?

[Xiao Yao You]

care to elaborate? what makes lillard better, and why isn't it close?

More efficient

[turnaroundJ]

Iverson and it’s not even a little close

[mehyaM24]

Iverson and it’s not even a little close

iverson took his team to the finals with an inept offense. so i can see why you think that. still, he did it in a depleted conference & his teams defense was the main factor. for reference check the sixers defensive rating as opposed to their offensive rating. xiao is correct that lillard is more efficient. along with his range & clutch-ability is why he gets my vote.

[Dr Hawk]

I think Lillard is better, but I would like to see Iverson in the current league.

[Xiao Yao You]

I think Lillard is better, but I would like to see Iverson in the current league.

not a great shooter or defender. Maybe a 6th man today

[GOBB]

6th man? Dudes be saying anything here. Full cringe.


Anyway. Iverson is better.

[Xiao Yao You]

6th man? Dudes be saying anything here. Full cringe.


Anyway. Iverson is better.

He'd be left open on offense and he'd be put on an island defensively. Good luck with that in your starting lineup

[GOBB]

He'd be left open on offense and he'd be put on an island defensively. Good luck with that in your starting lineup

Curry guards who? Stop this defense nonsense. Iverson would attack the rim and go to the line 11-12 times a game. Smarten up.

[Xiao Yao You]

Curry guards who? Stop this defense nonsense. Iverson would attack the rim and go to the line 11-12 times a game. Smarten up.

Curry can shoot. Sure he'd attack the rim against triple teams like he did in the day but who would play someone as inefficient as him in today's game?

[tpols]

Look at what happened post 2006 when Iverson was with the Nuggets in the playoffs. This was on a good offensive team post rule changes. He was still taking tons of shots, but he shot terribly, and the team was a first round sweep. Chauncey Billups comes over in 2009, and scores 20 PPG on a preposterous 135 ORTG while of course averaging more assists, being a better floor general, and playing better defense, and what do you know? The Nuggets make the WCF's and take the Lakers to 6.

[Xiao Yao You]

Look at what happened post 2006 when Iverson was with the Nuggets in the playoffs. He shot terribly, and the team was a first round sweep. Chauncey Billups comes over in 2009, and scores 20 PPG n a preposterous 135 ORTG while of course averaging more assists, being a better floor general, and playing better defense, and what do you know? The Nuggets make the WCF's and take the Lakers to 6.

and that was the more efficient AI after they took away hand checking

[Real Men Wear Green]

Lillard is better but saying AI is a sixth man is nuts. He would still be one of the quickest if not the quickest player in the league an an amazing athlete. The question is whether or not he would have had the modern player's emphasis on the three but if he does he's undoubtedly still a massive scorer. Most likely not efficient, he never was, but a guy that can score will always have a place in the league.

[Xiao Yao You]

Lillard is better but saying AI is a sixth man is nuts. He would still be one of the quickest if not the quickest player in the league an an amazing athlete. The question is whether or not he would have had the modern player's emphasis on the three but if he does he's undoubtedly still a massive scorer. Most likely not efficient, he never was, but a guy that can score will always have a place in the league.

a guy that can score inefficiently while being a defensive liability would be best utilized as a 6th man

[GOBB]

Curry can shoot. Sure he'd attack the rim against triple teams like he did in the day but who would play someone as inefficient as him in today's game?

Curry can shoot is irrelevant. You keep harping on defense when Curry is hidden on defense. Much more than Iverson ever was. So again stop with the defense narrative.

Russell Westbrook is basically AI. D Wade is basically AI.

[GOBB]

The inefficient argument is stupid. How efficient was he in Denver? I’ll wait. Context is everything. You guys get caught up googling stats you would fail the eye and common sense test.

[BigShotBob]

Besides game one Lillard had some embarrassing games against the Lakers. All of that "bubble magic" and "efficiency" suddenly went away.

[RRR3]

Besides game one Lillard had some embarrassing games against the Lakers. All of that "bubble magic" and "efficiency" suddenly went away.
LeLockdown :applause:

[Doranku]

Iverson shot 46%/35% from 3 in his only full season as a Nugget. They won 50 games but unfortunately that was only good for the 8th seed and they lost to MVP Kobe and Pau in the first round. Can't really knock him for that. He was better than Melo.

[JohnMax]

Iverson is a better player than Jordan

[tpols]

The inefficient argument is stupid. How efficient was he in Denver? I’ll wait. Context is everything. You guys get caught up googling stats you would fail the eye and common sense test.

He shot 39% in the playoffs with Denver and was a first round sweep.

You just ignore reality.


Iverson shot 46%/35% from 3 in his only full season as a Nugget. They won 50 games but unfortunately that was only good for the 8th seed and they lost to MVP Kobe and Pau in the first round. Can't really knock him for that. He was better than Melo.

Go look up what he shot in the playoffs with Denver. And then go look up what Billups shot and the difference in their team success.

[light]

Iverson was better at meeting the standards of his time in terms of MVPs, scoring titles and steals titles (i.e. all the things MJ did).

Lillard hasn't been able to win any award or lead the league in anything.

Iverson was a better player for his time and a much bigger star who made a bigger impact on the game. A.I. was an icon.

[dankok8]

Lillard's efficiency edge is an illusion. The leagues in 2014 to present shot so much better on average that you can't just compare the raw numbers.

Playoff Careers:

Lillard: 23.0 points/75, -0.2 rTS, 25.0 AST%, 12.5 TOV%
Iverson: 27.1 points/75, -3.6 rTS, 28.6 AST%, 9.3 TOV%

Lillard shot at league average and AI shot worse but Lillard also committed turnovers at a higher rate while assisting less. And his scoring volume was also significantly smaller. AI probably would have loved to have CJ McCollum and the kind of spacing modern day stars have where he can blast off straight to the rim and no help defense comes over.

I'd go with AI but this can be argued either way. Lillard is kind of underrated to be honest.

[Reggie43]

Iverson would be a God in todays nba...

[mehyaM24]

some good arguments for iverson. dame obviously has a shooting/efficiency advantage though. he is better from three than iverson and shoots freethrows more effectively. just a fact. overall efficiency includes things like turnovers so iverson has a higher player efficiency rating in the postseason but equal bpm. thought it was close when i made the thread, and didn't even lookup their numbers. go figure.

[Xiao Yao You]

Curry can shoot is irrelevant. You keep harping on defense when Curry is hidden on defense. Much more than Iverson ever was. So again stop with the defense narrative.

Russell Westbrook is basically AI. D Wade is basically AI.

not irrelevant. There's a place for Curry because he can shoot, has a high BB IQ and isn't a black hole. AI has nothing you want in today's game. Not that he had anything I wanted when he played

[Xiao Yao You]

Iverson shot 46%/35% from 3 in his only full season as a Nugget. They won 50 games but unfortunately that was only good for the 8th seed and they lost to MVP Kobe and Pau in the first round. Can't really knock him for that. He was better than Melo.

better than Carmelo not a great argument for the guy! :lol

[GOBB]

He shot 39% in the playoffs with Denver and was a first round sweep.

You just ignore reality.



Go look up what he shot in the playoffs with Denver. And then go look up what Billups shot and the difference in their team success.

Weird ass dudes focusing on playoffs because he was efficient in Denver during his tenure. Hilarious.


You ignore reality is even cute considering Dame Lillard has never been efficient in the playoffs. Can’t wait to hear your argument to this. Wait you going to go back to regular season for Dame goofy?

[GOBB]

not irrelevant. There's a place for Curry because he can shoot, has a high BB IQ and isn't a black hole. AI has nothing you want in today's game. Not that he had anything I wanted when he played

You sound like the guy who internally didn’t like the popular kids in school

“Why are they special? My grades trump theirs. I’m going to be rich one day and can’t wait to get them back”

[999Guy]

Iverson. Lillard is the worst ‘superstar’ of the era. Terrible in the playoffs, terrible on defense.

AI would be more ideal in the playoffs.

[turnaroundJ]

iverson took his team to the finals with an inept offense. so i can see why you think that. still, he did it in a depleted conference & his teams defense was the main factor. for reference check the sixers defensive rating as opposed to their offensive rating. xiao is correct that lillard is more efficient. along with his range & clutch-ability is why he gets my vote.

Where’s this efficiency in the playoffs though and what’s the point of efficiency if it doesn’t translate to wins? Iverson took a win off of the best of the Lakers 3peat teams. And someone had to score the points for those Sixers teams. And he was no slouch on D either, although limited by his size.

Lillard has always played with another scoring threat on the team through CJ or Aldridge. Maybe he’s a better regular season floor raiser but I wouldn’t wanna waste the spot of a number option and max slot on him if I could choose other real superstars.

[DoctorP]

If you want threes go with Lillard, if you want twos it's hard to not pick Iversons energy.

[HylianNightmare]

I think Lillard is better, but I would like to see Iverson in the current league.

Dude would get 20fts a game

[Stanley Kobrick]

both have more iconic playoff moments than stephen curry

[Derka]

The league now is all about offense and high-scoring games. Iverson wasn’t terribly efficient but he was an all-time offensive player. In this league, he’d kill it.

If I’m paying my money to see a game, I’d rather watch Iverson drive and finish at the rim than watch Lillard shoot from halfcourt.

[mehyaM24]

Where’s this efficiency in the playoffs though and what’s the point of efficiency if it doesn’t translate to wins? Iverson took a win off of the best of the Lakers 3peat teams. And someone had to score the points for those Sixers teams. And he was no slouch on D either, although limited by his size.

Lillard has always played with another scoring threat on the team through CJ or Aldridge. Maybe he’s a better regular season floor raiser but I wouldn’t wanna waste the spot of a number option and max slot on him if I could choose other real superstars.

that's the thing. lillard IS more efficient in the playoffs. he shoots better from 2, 3 & the freethrow line. in the playoffs overall lillard has a better true shooting & effective field goal percent. also not sure what you mean by "winning". grabbing a game off la in the finals was impressive & one of the best individual performances ever. but ai didnt win that series. he nor lillard has ever won a championship. we can't fault dame for playing in a tougher western conference as opposed to iverson who played in the weak east.

your point about defense is a good one. even though he was mostly a net negative & never had much impact, iverson led the league in steals 3 times. lillard never has. admittedly, the arguments for iverson are solid and i might even waver picking dame.

[Doranku]

He shot 39% in the playoffs with Denver and was a first round sweep.

You just ignore reality.


https://i.ibb.co/QrWKJ5w/dame-lol.png

[tpols]

https://i.ibb.co/QrWKJ5w/dame-lol.png

Dame is overrated too bro. I like his theatrics and can admit he's clutcher than my favorite players on last shots... but yea... he's not too efficient in the playoffs either and obviously plays little defense. His main value comes in his ability to make clutch shots. I watched him the other week get doubled up on by Chef and hit the dagger game winner plus take a game winning charge. That doesn't show up in ORTG. I can't remember Iverson ever being a clutch shooter though. He just had mass appeal because of how fancy his game looked, plus the stark black sixer jerseys too... the sleeve... the gangsterism... he sold. And the league made money.

[hateraid]

More efficient

You don't like Iverson so obvi post

Iverson is better.

[Xiao Yao You]

You don't like Iverson so obvi post

Iverson is better.

Nope. Even before analytics I didn't think much of guys shooting under 40%, not defending with low BB IQ's. Way ahead of my time. He's also the one that first got away with palming the ball. Not much to like there. He played with a lot of heart.

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Lillard nice for his era of inflated little guard play (only a dumbass would dispute that by now) but dude legit useless without ball and super inconsistent in playoffs despite playing in by far the easiest era ever for little guards and low skilled freak wings to play in

Some dumbass here really trying to argue he'd be taking the same dumb shots in triple coverage today lol the way teams play now (due to rule changes, teams realizing 3s can be good as a primary weapon, and other factors) AI is almost never seeing that kind of defense again, just like how in Denver being past his physical prime he was a lot more efficient than in Philly. Put this man in Portland in today's soft ass NBA with CJ as his running mate and he'd feast way more today

Now AI has his issues of his own like being even smaller (better athlete though, ridiculous athlete for that matter) but I can't see him do worse today, people really underrate his off ball ability and with the emphasis on the 3 ball today he should surely be more respectable at it today. I definitely don't think he'd be great at it but with his speed defenses have bigger issues to deal with anyway. He's not seeing Shaq or Duncan down there anymore, today's rim protection is a joke

Easy choice