Was Karl Malone's Peak Around 1990 or 1997?

[dankok8]

Most people look at 1997-1999 Malone when he was winning MVP's and Jazz made 2 Finals as his peak. He was a bit more refined defensively and cerebral with his passing in those years but he lost a lot of athleticism compared to the younger version. He couldn't explode up which hurt his finishing at the rim in the late 90's and reduced him to more to a transition player and midrange shooter off of the pick and pop. The young version of Malone was one of the most devastating scorers in league history and this is somehow overlooked when taking older Malone's stats who was older, took more jumpers and playing in a brutal defensive era. Let's compare his best 5 younger year and best 5 older years.

1988-1992 Karl Malone

Season: 29.0 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 2.8 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg on 59.6 %TS (+6.1 rTS) with 3.5 topg in 38.8 mpg

Playoffs: 29.0 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.0 bpg on 56.3 %TS (+2.8 rTS) with 3.1 topg in 43.1 mpg


1995-1999 Karl Malone

Season: 26.3 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 4.0 apg, 1.4 spg, 1.0 bpg on 58.9 %TS (+5.8 rTS) with 2.9 topg in 37.5 mpg

Playoffs: 25.9 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg on 51.1 %TS (-2.0 rTS) with 2.9 topg in 40.6 mpg


His playoff scoring efficiency was good in his younger years and quite bad in his older years. But I don't know and I'm still a bit undecided because his latter teams were much better offensively especially compared to league average despite having less talent than his early years (and Stockton was exiting his prime) so his value as an anchor must have been higher than what the stats show.

Or maybe somewhere in between? Like 1992 or 1994?

[clipps]

He peaked inside a 13 year old girl.

[Xiao Yao You]

He was better early on. Jazz had a better team around him and Stockton later

[Proctor]

He peaked inside a 13 year old girl.

:kobe:

[TAZORAC]

He was more athletic earlier, developed a great 15 feet jump shot later.

[Xiao Yao You]

He was more athletic earlier, developed a great 15 feet jump shot later.

also became a better passer later and probably a better defender as well but his rebounding went down. They were never as good offensively as when they were running in '88 though

[dankok8]

also became a better passer later and probably a better defender as well but his rebounding went down. They were never as good offensively as when they were running in '88 though

It's actually the opposite surprisingly. The early Jazz that had a younger Malone, prime Stockton and scoring talents like Thurl Bailey and Jeff Malone were actually pretty average offensively but amazing defensively mainly because of Mark Eaton. The Jazz that made the Finals in 1997 and 1998 were offensive juggernauts largely thanks to Malone.

That's why I can't put younger Malone above an older one. Because he didn't have the same impact on offense. He seemed like a better player but evidently his elite passing in the late 90's made a lot of difference.

[Xiao Yao You]

It's actually the opposite surprisingly. The early Jazz that had a younger Malone, prime Stockton and scoring talents like Thurl Bailey and Jeff Malone were actually pretty average offensively but amazing defensively mainly because of Mark Eaton. The Jazz that made the Finals in 1997 and 1998 were offensive juggernauts largely thanks to Malone.

That's why I can't put younger Malone above an older one. Because he didn't have the same impact on offense. He seemed like a better player but evidently his elite passing in the late 90's made a lot of difference.

Jeff Malone sucked as did Eaton, Hanson etc. Thurl was good. When they went to the finals they had better supporting pieces in Horny, Russell, Anderson etc.

[RRR3]

Jeff Malone sucked as did Eaton, Hanson etc. Thurl was good. When they went to the finals they had better supporting pieces in Horny, Russell, Anderson etc.
Eaton was like the 80s version of Rudy, surprised you don’t like him.

[Xiao Yao You]

Eaton was like the 80s version of Rudy, surprised you don’t like him.

The 80's version that was slow and clueless! Rudy is everything that Eaton wasn't. I believe they came up with a rule because Eaton would hang out at half court while the Jazz played 4 on 5 so he could get back on D. Shot 46% on hooks and dunks! Had a couple pretty good years defensive rebounding but not great for his size.

I doubt Eaton would have ever played for anyone but Utah. He certainly wouldn't be able to play today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bM-Y4UoiAY

This play Malone wouldn't have needed to help Rudy. Even if Thomas had gotten by Rudy he'd have been able to make a play on the ball. He'd be on an island every play today. It would be ugly as it often was even then

[3ball]

Most people look at 1997-1999 Malone when he was winning MVP's and Jazz made 2 Finals as his peak. He was a bit more refined defensively and cerebral with his passing in those years but he lost a lot of athleticism compared to the younger version. He couldn't explode up which hurt his finishing at the rim in the late 90's and reduced him to more to a transition player and midrange shooter off of the pick and pop. The young version of Malone was one of the most devastating scorers in league history and this is somehow overlooked when taking older Malone's stats who was older, took more jumpers and playing in a brutal defensive era. Let's compare his best 5 younger year and best 5 older years.

1988-1992 Karl Malone

Season: 29.0 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 2.8 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg on 59.6 %TS (+6.1 rTS) with 3.5 topg in 38.8 mpg

Playoffs: 29.0 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.0 bpg on 56.3 %TS (+2.8 rTS) with 3.1 topg in 43.1 mpg


1995-1999 Karl Malone

Season: 26.3 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 4.0 apg, 1.4 spg, 1.0 bpg on 58.9 %TS (+5.8 rTS) with 2.9 topg in 37.5 mpg

Playoffs: 25.9 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg on 51.1 %TS (-2.0 rTS) with 2.9 topg in 40.6 mpg


His playoff scoring efficiency was good in his younger years and quite bad in his older years. But I don't know and I'm still a bit undecided because his latter teams were much better offensively especially compared to league average despite having less talent than his early years (and Stockton was exiting his prime) so his value as an anchor must have been higher than what the stats show.

Or maybe somewhere in between? Like 1992 or 1994?


Shooting efficiency is vastly overrated - people forget that the 14' Heat had better efficiency against the Spurs than any other Spurs' opponent, yet lost by the most and had the lowest ORtg's.... Ultimately, the opponent that simply averaged the most raw points (Dallas) did the best versus the Spurs, while the safe/efficiency-driven team (Heat) lost by more than anyone ever has, and had the lowest ORtg.

So a drop in shooting efficiency doesn't necessarily correlate with a drop in team offense

Furthermore, Malone's scoring style changed to more jumpshooting, and teammates play better alongside jumpshooting, resulting in more team offense

[Axe]

Where were the jazz tho during the years he reached his peak at a younger age?

[Xiao Yao You]

Shooting efficiency is vastly overrated - people forget that the 14' Heat had better efficiency against the Spurs than any other Spurs' opponent, yet lost by the most and had the lowest ORtg's.... Ultimately, the opponent that simply averaged the most raw points (Dallas) did the best versus the Spurs, while the safe/efficiency-driven team (Heat) lost by more than anyone ever has, and had the lowest ORtg.

So a drop in shooting efficiency doesn't necessarily correlate with a drop in team offense

Furthermore, Malone's scoring style changed to more jumpshooting, and teammates play better alongside jumpshooting, resulting in more team offense

More team offense because they had 3 great passers in Malone, Stockton and Hornacek

[Xiao Yao You]

Where were the jazz tho during the years he reached his peak at a younger age?

Same place they always were. A cheap owner, an overrated head coach, an all too unselfish pg great and the thought that there was always next year until there wasn't

[TAZORAC]

Same place they always were. A cheap owner, an overrated head coach, an all too unselfish pg great and the thought that there was always next year until there wasn't

Stockton had the skills to average 20 PPG for multiple years