Let this sink in: A career consisting of 4 rings and 10 finals appearances with....

[TheGoatest]

...this:

https://images2.imagebam.com/62/4f/09/a23a301373114650.jpg

WHAT. A. GOAT. :applause:

[DoctorP]

Threepeats:

Jordan 2
Goat 0

Let that sink in.

[TheGoatest]

Threepeats:

Jordan 2
Goat 0

Let that sink in.

55 wins in 1993-94. :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

What's insane about that is, forget '94, even in the '95 season, which is usually brought up to show much the Bulls were struggling without Jordan, they were 34-31 before Jordan came back

[Kiddlovesnets]

10 Finals appearances are nothing when he only won 4 out of these 10.

[StrongLurk]

I mean...4 rings in 10 appearances isn't the best? OP idk what you are even trying to say or compare here. Are you a teenager?

[AirBonner]

I mean...4 rings in 10 appearances isn't the best? OP idk what you are even trying to say or compare here. Are you a teenager?

Bill Russell 8-peating is the GOAT standard

[2much_knowledge]

Thought about it. MJ still untouchable

[AirBonner]

Thought about it. Bill Russell still untouchable

Fixed

[Kiddlovesnets]

Fixed

But MJ is still above Lebron, so what are you getting at?

[AirBonner]

But MJ is still above Lebron, so what are you getting at?
I have Bill Russell as the goat. At the end of the day they play to win. BR is the goat winner

[Kiddlovesnets]

I have Bill Russell as the goat. At the end of the day they play to win. BR is the goat winner

So thats up to you then bro.
:pimp:

[AirBonner]

So thats up to you then bro.
:pimp:

Well winning is the most important. It’s a fact

[LeFlopper]

...this:

https://images2.imagebam.com/62/4f/09/a23a301373114650.jpg

WHAT. A. GOAT. :applause:

Did you factor in AD being injured? LMAO whats lebrons record without another SUPER STAR?

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well winning is the most important. It’s a fact

Winning percentage also matters, 6/6 is 100% in the finals.

[LeFlopper]

I mean...4 rings in 10 appearances isn't the best? OP idk what you are even trying to say or compare here. Are you a teenager?

Dont worry....its all the same person with 20 alts.....that why this forum gone to shit

[SouBeachTalents]

Dont worry....its all the same person with 20 alts.....that why this forum gone to shit
Says the guy who's DEF not an alt :lol

[Airupthere]

10 finals is a nice feat. But then wiping out competition in the conf by teaming up means easy entrance to the finals. 10 finals again would be incredible, but when you look at the success rate, why is it only 4?

[TheGoatest]

10 finals appearances and 4 championships with a .327/34-70, mega lottery team. No player in history could come close with doing so much with so little. :applause:

[sdot_thadon]

Dont worry....its all the same person with 20 alts.....that why this forum gone to shit


i·ro·ny
/ˈīrənē/

• literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions are clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character.

[dankok8]

For a lot of those years, a bunch of games Lebron missed was when all the starters rested at the end of the season. A lot of those losses in Miami and 2nd Cleveland stint had Wade and Kyrie/Love sitting out as well. This season of the 3 games Lebron missed AD missed all 3 of those games as well.

[RogueBorg]

Bill Russell 8-peating is the GOAT standard

Russell was terrible offensively. No comparison.

[LeFlopper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKKBZrCdOwo


Sorry buddy even WADE says MJ is the GOAT......

[Manny98]

...this:

https://images2.imagebam.com/62/4f/09/a23a301373114650.jpg

WHAT. A. GOAT. :applause:
Kyrie & Love were 4-23 without LeGOAT?

:roll::roll::roll:

[Axe]

I have Bill Russell as the goat. At the end of the day they play to win. BR is the goat winner
I wish you could say and post the same thing under your different dups so i would be convinced by your point.

[Axe]

...this:

https://images2.imagebam.com/62/4f/09/a23a301373114650.jpg

WHAT. A. GOAT. :applause:
Why didn't these teams dominate without him? There's something wrong here. :(

[TheGoatest]

Chalk up another L.

[TheCorporation]

10 Finals appearances are nothing when he only won 4 out of these 10.

Yep, much better to get swept in the 1st round :lol

Real winners lose early :roll:

[Kiddlovesnets]

Yep, much better to get swept in the 1st round :lol

Real winners lose early :roll:

Depends. Taking a team expected to miss the playoffs to 1st round exit, is much better than taking a title favorite team to lose in the finals.

https://i.ibb.co/s15GhMX/MJ-vs-Lebron-comparison.png

[dankok8]

Alright let me analyze this with a bit more rigour... *cracks fingers*

Let's go through all these games without Lebron starting with the Heat years.

I'm going to count as "championship cast" those games in Miami where Wade and Bosh both played.

2011-2014 Heat - All Games Lebron Missed:

Jan 13, 2011 - L Wade IN Bosh IN
Jan 15, 2011 - L Wade IN Bosh IN
Apr 13, 2011 - W Wade OUT Bosh OUT

Jan 5, 2012 - W Wade OUT Bosh IN
Apr 21, 2012 - L Wade OUT* Bosh OUT (Wade played less than 3 minutes)
Apr 24, 2012 - L Wade OUT Bosh OUT
Apr 26, 2012 - L Wade OUT Bosh OUT

Mar 31, 2013 - W Wade OUT Bosh IN
Apr 2, 2013 - L Wade OUT Bosh IN
Apr 5, 2013 - W Wade OUT Bosh IN
Apr 10, 2013 - W Wade OUT Bosh OUT
Apr 15, 2013 - W Wade OUT Bosh OUT
Apr 17, 2013 - W Wade IN Bosh OUT

Dec 28, 2013 - W Wade IN Bosh IN
Feb 23, 2014 - W Wade IN Bosh IN
Mar 19, 2014 - L Wade IN Bosh IN
Apr 14, 2014 - L Wade IN Bosh OUT
Apr 16, 2014 - L Wade IN Bosh OUT

So in the 18 games Lebron missed the Heat went 9-9 but Wade and Bosh both played in only 5 of those games. The other 13 games had either Wade out or Bosh out or even both out.

Summary:
9-9 Overall
2-3 With Wade and Bosh
1-2 With Wade only
3-1 With Bosh only
3-3 With nobody

These samples sizes are far too small to conclude anything to be quite honest. The Heat went 2-3 with a "championship cast" but 5 games is way too small to decide how good that team was without Lebron. And they went 7-6 in games with only Wade or only Bosh or neither of them playing. Of course many of these games were right before the playoffs when all teams were resting starters so the value of that data is dubious.

EDIT: Tracking the scoring margin and strength of opposition makes this kind of analysis better but when sample size is this small it probably still gives data that is difficult to use with any conviction.

[Mauzah]

The OP just proves the point how bad Lekong is at playing team basketball. Bronball is good for him but destructive to the team overall. It's supposed to be 5 on 5 basketball after all.

[tpols]

Anybody in the top 25 GOATs all time could've produced equal or better. Charles Barkley is commonly ranked somewhere in the low 20s. Imagine Barkley on all these super teams playing with prime Wade, AD, Kyrie... Love and Bosh non diminished... in a conference where Derrick Rose, Paul George, and Demar Derozan were his toughest comp. And he got to see old spurs and mavs teams in the Finals over and over. He'd easily hit that mark or better perhaps with just the Heat and Cavs. He wouldn't even need AD.

[Airupthere]

Anybody in the top 25 GOATs all time could've produced equal or better. Charles Barkley is commonly ranked somewhere in the low 20s. Imagine Barkley on all these super teams playing with prime Wade, AD, Kyrie... Love and Bosh non diminished... in a conference where Derrick Rose, Paul George, and Demar Derozan were his toughest comp. And he got to see old spurs and mavs teams in the Finals over and over. He'd easily hit that mark or better perhaps with just the Heat and Cavs. He wouldn't even need AD.

Given those circumstances, 4/10 doesn't look too impressive. That was par at best.

[dankok8]

For the second Cavs stint, I will consider "championship casts" those with Kyrie and Love both playing.

2015-2017 Cavs - All Games Lebron Missed:
**He didn't miss any games in 2018. And besides Kyrie wasn't there anymore.

Dec 11, 2014 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Dec 30, 2014 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Dec 31, 2014 - L Kyrie IN Love OUT
Jan 2, 2015 - W Kyrie IN Love IN
Jan 4, 2015 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Jan 5, 2015 - L Kyrie OUT Love IN
Jan 7, 2015 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Jan 9, 2015 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Jan 11, 2015 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Jan 28, 2015 - W Kyrie IN Love IN
Feb 27, 2015 - L Kyrie OUT Love IN
Apr 12, 2015 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT
Apr 15, 2015 - W Kyrie IN Love IN

Dec 5, 2015 - L Kyrie OUT Love IN
Feb 28, 2016 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Mar 16, 2016 - W Kyrie IN Love IN
Mar 29, 2016 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Apr 6, 2016 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Apr 13, 2016 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT

Nov 16, 2016 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Dec 14, 2016 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT
Dec 26, 2016 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Feb 25, 2017 - L Kyrie IN Love OUT
Mar 4, 2017 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT
Mar 18, 2017 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT
Apr 10, 2017 - L Kyrie OUT Love IN
Apr 12, 2017 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT

So Lebron missed 27 games in his second Cavs stint and his team did go 4-23 but that's a bit misleading because Kyrie and Love both played in only 15 games so the real record is 4-11. That's a still a really bad record but it's not 4-23. And sample size is still a bit small.

Summary:
4-23 Overall
4-11 With Kyrie and Love
0-2 With Kyrie only
0-4 With Love only
0-6 With nobody

[Airupthere]

For the second Cavs stint, I will consider "championship casts" those with Kyrie and Love both playing.

2015-2017 Cavs - All Games Lebron Missed:
**He didn't miss any games in 2018. And besides Kyrie wasn't there anymore.

Dec 11, 2014 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Dec 30, 2014 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Dec 31, 2014 - L Kyrie IN Love OUT
Jan 2, 2015 - W Kyrie IN Love IN
Jan 4, 2015 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Jan 5, 2015 - L Kyrie OUT Love IN
Jan 7, 2015 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Jan 9, 2015 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Jan 11, 2015 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Jan 28, 2015 - W Kyrie IN Love IN
Feb 27, 2015 - L Kyrie OUT Love IN
Apr 12, 2015 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT
Apr 15, 2015 - W Kyrie IN Love IN

Dec 5, 2015 - L Kyrie OUT Love IN
Feb 28, 2016 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Mar 16, 2016 - W Kyrie IN Love IN
Mar 29, 2016 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Apr 6, 2016 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Apr 13, 2016 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT

Nov 16, 2016 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Dec 14, 2016 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT
Dec 26, 2016 - L Kyrie IN Love IN
Feb 25, 2017 - L Kyrie IN Love OUT
Mar 4, 2017 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT
Mar 18, 2017 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT
Apr 10, 2017 - L Kyrie OUT Love IN
Apr 12, 2017 - L Kyrie OUT Love OUT

So Lebron missed 27 games in his second Cavs stint and his team did go 4-23 but that's a bit misleading because Kyrie and Love both played in only 15 games so the real record is 4-11. That's a still a really bad record but it's not 4-23. And sample size is still a bit small.

Summary:
4-23 Overall
4-11 With Kyrie and Love
0-2 With Kyrie only
0-4 With Love only
0-6 With nobody

Regardless, that is exactly the downside of bronball. Same with the Lakers now. No AD, no Lebron, the rest dont know how to play having gotten used to bronball.

[3ball]

Iverson, Dwight and Kidd took weak casts to the Finals, so lebron's runs with super-teams means nothing and amounts to cheating

Ultimately, losing the Finals means you wouldn't make the Finals in the other conference, so Finals appearances are conference-dependant affairs and only winning them matters.

[clutchinho]

Given Lebron's cowardice and shameless deck stacking, I'd say he needs at least 10 rings to match Jordan's 6

Unfortunately he only has 1 legitimate ring leaving him 9 short

[dankok8]

With the Lakers a "championship cast" is when Davis is playing.

2019-2021 Lakers - Quick Recap:

62-20 with Lebron IN Davis IN (45-14 in 2020, 17-6 in 2021)
1-2 with Lebron OUT Davis IN (1-2 in 2020)
44-37 with Lebron IN Davis OUT (28-27 in 2019, 5-3 in 2020, 11-7 in 2021)
10-21 With Lebron OUT Davis OUT (9-18 in 2019, 1-0 in 2020, 0-3 in 2021)

[3ball]

With the Lakers a "championship cast" is when Davis is playing.

2019-2021 Lakers - Quick Recap:

62-20 with Lebron IN Davis IN (45-14 in 2020, 17-6 in 2021)
1-2 with Lebron OUT Davis IN (1-2 in 2020)
44-37 with Lebron IN Davis OUT (28-27 in 2019, 5-3 in 2020, 11-7 in 2021)
10-21 With Lebron OUT Davis OUT (9-18 in 2019, 1-0 in 2020, 0-3 in 2021)


Exactly

Lebron failed 3 times to carry legit lottery casts (teams that were lottery the prior year) to the playoffs in 04', 05', and 19'.

he was never forced to carry bad low seeds and only made the playoffs with developed, high seeds in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning.. So the idea that he carries any team to contender status is false.. he lost a ton in the 00's East just like any other star, aka Iverson, Dwight, Kidd.. he only separated himself from their accomplishment by forming a super-team

[tpols]

With the Lakers a "championship cast" is when Davis is playing.

2019-2021 Lakers - Quick Recap:

62-20 with Lebron IN Davis IN (45-14 in 2020, 17-6 in 2021)
1-2 with Lebron OUT Davis IN (1-2 in 2020)
44-37 with Lebron IN Davis OUT (28-27 in 2019, 5-3 in 2020, 11-7 in 2021)
10-21 With Lebron OUT Davis OUT (9-18 in 2019, 1-0 in 2020, 0-3 in 2021)


All we need to know is they couldn't even make the playoffs before AD ~ 2019 AKA a time period known as BC when they were lottery. Then in 2020 we saw Anthony Davis come over and start the New Testament, leading the Lakers not only to the playoffs, but to a championship while being the leading scorer and anchor defender. That's all it is my friend.

[Axe]

Anybody in the top 25 GOATs all time could've produced equal or better. Charles Barkley is commonly ranked somewhere in the low 20s. Imagine Barkley on all these super teams playing with prime Wade, AD, Kyrie... Love and Bosh non diminished... in a conference where Derrick Rose, Paul George, and Demar Derozan were his toughest comp. And he got to see old spurs and mavs teams in the Finals over and over. He'd easily hit that mark or better perhaps with just the Heat and Cavs. He wouldn't even need AD.
Yet he still has four finals mvp while curry has none during his whole five straight trips to the finals

[TheGoatest]

Wow, I am pleased to see the resident LeBron hater of the forum using all of his alts to post many posts in this thread. The facts from the cap must be very triggering for him indeed, so it's nice to see it's doing its job. :applause:

[TheMan]

55 wins in 1993-94. :oldlol:

And they didn't even reach the ECFs that season.

[TheGoatest]

And they didn't even reach the ECFs that season.

They didn't get swept in the first round either, like the 1984-1987 Bulls.
And they didn't reach the ECFs the following season either. Except that season they lost legit and in 1994 they lost because of this shyt:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdOzWd6XEAAkFpW.jpg

[3ball]

They didn't get swept in the first round either, like the 1984-1987 Bulls.
And they didn't reach the ECFs the following season either. Except that season they lost legit and in 1994 they lost because of this shyt:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdOzWd6XEAAkFpW.jpg


The replay shows it was a hack

One of the dumbest fouls in history

The first thing they teach in elementary school is "don't foul a jumpshooter"

Pippen choked 3 times in that series - the "sit out" game, the "dumb foul" game, and game 7

Pippen's BPM in the 1994 Playoffs was only 5.6, which was beaten by Kukoc and nowhere near his high under Jordan - he was also 4th on the those Bulls in WS/48 and was simply FAR better as a 2nd option under Jordan in so many areas (BPM, WS/48, APG, and efficiency, while being only 1 point off his scoring peak despite his promotion to 1st option).

He also wasn't required to do anything in the clutch under Jordan, which was his worst area without Jordan and ultimate downfall (3 chokes in the 94' ECSF - the "sit out" game, the "dumb foul" game, and game 7).. He simply sucked as a #1 option.

[TheGoatest]

The replay shows it was a hack

One of the dumbest fouls in history

The first thing they teach in elementary school is "don't foul a jumpshooter"

Pippen choked 3 times in that series - the "sit out" game, the "dumb foul" game, and game 7

Pippen's BPM in the 1994 Playoffs was only 5.6, which was beaten by Kukoc and nowhere near his high under Jordan - he was also 4th on the those Bulls in WS/48 and was simply FAR better as a 2nd option under Jordan in so many areas (BPM, WS/48, APG, and efficiency, while being only 1 point off his scoring peak despite his promotion to 1st option).

He also wasn't required to do anything in the clutch under Jordan, which was his worst area without Jordan and ultimate downfall (3 chokes in the 94' ECSF - the "sit out" game, the "dumb foul" game, and game 7).. He simply sucked as a #1 option.

The replay shows it was nowhere near a foul

One of the biggest fraud calls in history. I've heard Knicks fans admit that it was a bullshit foul, but they justify it with saying that they got plenty of bullshyt calls called against them when they played against Jordan, so it was about time that they got a bullshyt call in their favor.

The first thing they teach in elementary school is "contest shots and hope the refs make correct calls"

Jordan choked the Bulls' season away the following season:

https://images2.imagebam.com/7f/f9/0c/b168a51373218547.gif