Dominique Wilkins 3-1 a Pistons team which had Thomas, Laimbeer, Tripucka and Dumars

[Lebron23]

In the first round of the 1986 NBA Playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1986-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-pistons-vs-hawks.html

Wilkins averaged 34.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg against the Pre Bad Boys Pistons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue88GPECmEE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hZauN4m9d0

And his 2nd and 3rd option were Randy Whitman and Doc Rivers who became future nba coaches.

[jayfan]

The Hawks won 50 games that year. And were seeded higher than the Pistons.



.

[bizil]

FURTHER proof why Nique is very underrated! He WILLED those Hawks teams to those multiple 50 win seasons back in the day. When u look at his supporting casts, its EASY to see Nique made those teams BETTER than they should have been. He was such a dominant scoring force that it made life easier for his teammates. The fact they pushed that Celtics team to 7 games in 88 in another great indicator of how dominant Nique was!

[Xiao Yao You]

FURTHER proof why Nique is very underrated! He WILLED those Hawks teams to those multiple 50 win seasons back in the day. When u look at his supporting casts, its EASY to see Nique made those teams BETTER than they should have been. He was such a dominant scoring force that it made life easier for his teammates. The fact they pushed that Celtics team to 7 games in 88 in another great indicator of how dominant Nique was!

highly overrated. Was considered one of the best players in the game when he was really just another high scoring small forward and not as good as some less hyped. Much like Carmelo

[ShawkFactory]

highly overrated. Was considered one of the best players in the game when he was really just another high scoring small forward and not as good as some less hyped. Much like Carmelo

Like who?

[Xiao Yao You]

Like who?

Dantley, English, King off hand. Check the numbers. Wilkins high usage, low efficiency, bad D.

[ShawkFactory]

Dantley, English, King off hand. Check the numbers. Wilkins high usage, low efficiency, bad D.

Dantley and King were/are pretty revered..

Both guys though (I won’t even mention Alex English here because he has no argument) didn’t have what Dominique did.

King really only had one great year, and missed the second half of it. He gets almost a Tmac rep but wasn’t that.

Dantley filled shit up on a bad team for years. The first time he played with an even decent squad he was scape-goatee as the reason they couldn’t win. Didn’t have the mindset, was too used to scoring a lot on bad teams.

Dominque obviously had more shine because of the dunk contests and playing with a better squad, but he was doing 27-30 ppg for like 7 years and put more pressure than either of those other guys did on the glass and in transition.

And I don’t think any of those guys you mentioned were known as great defenders by any means at all.

[Xiao Yao You]

Dantley and King were/are pretty revered..

Both guys though (I won’t even mention Alex English here because he has no argument) didn’t have what Dominique did.

King really only had one great year, and missed the second half of it. He gets almost a Tmac rep but wasn’t that.

Dantley filled shit up on a bad team for years. The first time he played with an even decent squad he was scape-goatee as the reason they couldn’t win. Didn’t have the mindset, was too used to scoring a lot on bad teams.

Dominque obviously had more shine because of the dunk contests and playing with a better squad, but he was doing 27-30 ppg for like 7 years and put more pressure than either of those other guys did on the glass and in transition.

And I don’t think any of those guys you mentioned were known as great defenders by any means at all.

King was revered because he played in NY. Dantley was never thought of at their level though Wilkens can't compare to Dantley if you look deeply. Advanced stats darling. English has much better advanced numbers as well. Dantley started the Jazz long playoff streak and went to the Pistons after that where he was dumped for Isiah's buddy

Wilkens numbers are inefficient. 1 more rebound over Dantley.

[RRR3]

Wilkins wasn’t inefficient. Xiao is being retarded again.

Wilkins TS%: 53.6%
League TS% during his career: 53.7%



Basically league average and his volume was massive which is a point in his favor. Xiao is braindead.

[Xiao Yao You]

Wilkins wasn’t inefficient. Xiao is being retarded again.

Wilkins TS%: 53.6%
League TS% during his career: 53.7%



Basically league average and his volume was massive which is a point in his favor. Xiao is braindead.

along with scoring, usage is the only stat where he ranked highly while Dantley is one of the most efficient players ever all while scoring at a similar rate to Wilkens. He's not Allen Iverson but he wasn't efficient

Usage



1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) 27.1 (11th)


1984-85 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985_leaders.html) 32.5 (2nd)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) 32.9 (1st)


1986-87 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1987_leaders.html) 32.3 (2nd)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) 35.2 (1st)


1988-89 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1989_leaders.html) 29.4 (5th)


1989-90 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1990_leaders.html) 30.4 (4th)


1990-91 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1991_leaders.html) 28.1 (9th)


1991-92 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1992_leaders.html) 30.7 (2nd)


1992-93 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1993_leaders.html) 31.9 (2nd)


1993-94 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1994_leaders.html) 32.0 (2nd)


1994-95 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1995_leaders.html) 26.6 (13th)


1996-97 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1997_leaders.html) 29.7 (6th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/usg_pct_career.html) 30.3 (10th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/usg_pct_career.html) 30.3 (9th)

[ShawkFactory]

King was revered because he played in NY. Dantley was never thought of at their level though Wilkens can't compare to Dantley if you look deeply. Advanced stats darling. English has much better advanced numbers as well. Dantley started the Jazz long playoff streak and went to the Pistons after that where he was dumped for Isiah's buddy

Wilkens numbers are inefficient. 1 more rebound over Dantley.

I mean...the argument is obviously close. Just because Nique got more shine doesn't mean they all weren't extremely close.

I also tend to think he gets overrated but he clearly was not inferior to any of these people.

If you were to say George Gervin then you might have a stronger case.

[light]

Who cares about beating the pre-Bad Boys Pistons?

[light]

Wilkins wasn’t inefficient. Xiao is being retarded again.

Wilkins TS%: 53.6%
League TS% during his career: 53.7%



Basically league average and his volume was massive which is a point in his favor. Xiao is braindead.

League average scoring efficiency is not nearly good enough for a primary scorer.

And Nique wasn't just inefficient in terms of shooting and scoring, but also in terms of use of his time on court - that is he didn't do enough positive things per minute compared to other stars. In 1986, for example, he averaged 2.6 assists on 3.2 turnovers and that is also inefficient.

[Mr. Woke]

Laimbeer was just a professional door troll moonlighting as an NBA player. He was only good for being a shameless thug. He definitely has daddy issues.

Trisucka was an overrated cra.kka, and Dumars was an overrated ni.kka whose legacy got a boost by playing next to Thomas.

[TheGoatest]

Who cares about beating the pre-Bad Boys Pistons?

Agree. Dominique beating the early 1986 Pistons isn't that big of a deal, just like beating the clearly washed 1991 Pistons.

However, Dominique leading the 0 other all-star Hawks to 57 wins in the following season is highly impressive, 17 wins above the 8th seed Chicago Bulls, who had the same amount of all-stars.

[bizil]

How in the hell is Nique OVERRATED???? If ANYTHING he's underrated!!! He didn't make top 50 or 1st ballot HOF! Yet he's the 3rd leading scorer among SF's ALL TIME in points scored. Until Bron and Melo passed him (players 2 eras later), he was the #1 leader in points scored among SF's. 9 time All Star, 7 time All NBA, one of the top 5-6 faces of the league at one point. A HUGE REASON why the All Star weekend became what it was. YET he didn't make the Top 50 or was a 1st ballot HOFer. SO HOW IN THE HELL is Nique overrated???

Some haters say he's inefficient. BUT he shot 46% from the field for his career. Which is a GOOD CLIP for a high volume perimeter player! He's shooting closer to 50% than he is 40%! Point is Nique was a great scoring AND rebounding SF! You gotta give him credit where credit is due. The fact he pushed Bird's Celtics to 7 games with his roster PROVE he was a superstar!! If u ask MJ, Magic, Bird, etc. THEY WILL TELL YOU Nique was underrated if ANYTHING!! Matt Barnes and Doc Rivers were saying the same on the All The Smoke podcast a couple of weeks ago!

[Xiao Yao You]

How in the hell is Nique OVERRATED???? If ANYTHING he's underrated!!! He didn't make top 50 or 1st ballot HOF! Yet he's the 3rd leading scorer among SF's ALL TIME in points scored. Until Bron and Melo passed him (players 2 eras later), he was the #1 leader in points scored among SF's. 9 time All Star, 7 time All NBA, one of the top 5-6 faces of the league at one point. A HUGE REASON why the All Star weekend became what it was. YET he didn't make the Top 50 or was a 1st ballot HOFer. SO HOW IN THE HELL is Nique overrated???

Some haters say he's inefficient. BUT he shot 46% from the field for his career. Which is a GOOD CLIP for a high volume perimeter player! He's shooting closer to 50% than he is 40%! Point is Nique was a great scoring AND rebounding SF! You gotta give him credit where credit is due. The fact he pushed Bird's Celtics to 7 games with his roster PROVE he was a superstar!! If u ask MJ, Magic, Bird, etc. THEY WILL TELL YOU Nique was underrated if ANYTHING!! Matt Barnes and Doc Rivers were saying the same on the All The Smoke podcast a couple of weeks ago!

He was considered one of the best players in the game when he played when in reality he was just a high volume/low efficiency/bad D sf and there were at lest a few better at it at the time despite him getting more hype. That is overrated. His all NBA teams selections tell you how overrated he is. The advanced stats just don't jive with the accolades

[jayfan]

Who cares about beating the pre-Bad Boys Pistons?

It was just one year prior. The next season, Detroit would take Boston to 7 in their epic ECF.



.

[bizil]

It was just one year prior. The next season, Detroit would lose the epic Boston series in the ECF.



.

Right! Plus Kelly Tripucka and Laimbeer were multiple time All Stars. Zeke was a superstar. They had Vinnie Johnson getting busy too. The Pistons HAD MORE TALENT than the Hawks. So for Nique and the Hawks to BEAT THEM, it proved how dominant Nique was. Nique was the only All Star on the Hawks at the time. Doc and Willis both made one All Star game later down the road. But Doc prime for prime was NEVER considered a better player than Tripucka. And prime for prime Willis wasn't as good as Laimbeer. And the Hawks DiDN'T have firepower off the bench like a Vinnie Johnson.

[ShawkFactory]

He was considered one of the best players in the game when he played when in reality he was just a high volume/low efficiency/bad D sf and there were at lest a few better at it at the time despite him getting more hype. That is overrated. His all NBA teams selections tell you how overrated he is. The advanced stats just don't jive with the accolades

For someone who consistently talks about Gobert and his screens and shit, you are relying on like...2 numbers to come to these conclusions. Kinda funny.

[getting_old]

Who cares about beating the pre-Bad Boys Pistons?


bad boys had to wait for Bird and Magic to fall apart, the first title was solely because both Magic and Byron Scott were injured for the Finals

[Xiao Yao You]

For someone who consistently talks about Gobert and his screens and shit, you are relying on like...2 numbers to come to these conclusions. Kinda funny.

What numbers are those? Wilkens had high usage and a lot of points. Nothing else to indicate that he was anything but a high volume low efficiency scorer

[dankok8]

Wilkins is definitely underrated. Bizil owning people in this thread as he usually does!

His TS% were around league average but with his scoring volume it's quite impressive. And Nique wasn't a bad defender. Not elite but not bad by any stretch. He also rebounding really well.

[Xiao Yao You]

Wilkins is definitely underrated. Bizil owning people in this thread as he usually does!

His TS% were around league average but with his scoring volume it's quite impressive. And Nique wasn't a bad defender. Not elite but not bad by any stretch. He also rebounding really well.

It's not impressive though when their were other small forwards putting up similar scoring numbers while doing it efficiently

[3ball]

Agree. Dominique beating the early 1986 Pistons isn't that big of a deal, just like beating the clearly washed 1991 Pistons.

However, Dominique leading the 0 other all-star Hawks to 57 wins in the following season is highly impressive, 17 wins above the 8th seed Chicago Bulls, who had the same amount of all-stars.


Isiah, Dumars, and Rodman were 29/27/29 years old in 1991

Duncan, Manu, and Parker were 35/36/32 in 2014

Garnet, Allen, and Pierce were 34/35/33 in 2012

Ultimately, Jordan would've 3-peated with Dominique in Pippen's place from 89-91'.

[ShawkFactory]

What numbers are those?

The number of shots that he took...and the amount that he made. I think you threw in ws/48 too, since you were talking about Dantley having better advanced numbers and thats the only metric that shows that.


Nothing else to indicate that he was anything but a high volume low efficiency scorer

Other than, like...watching him play...

[Xiao Yao You]

2 pt FG%




1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) .520 (12th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) .512 (19th)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) .577 (4th)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) .560 (7th)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) .570 (6th)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) .559 (19th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) .567 (7th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg2_pct_career.html) .541 (45th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg2_pct_career.html) .541 (46th)


offensive rating


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) 116.3 (1st)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) 118.5 (4th)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) 118.5 (6th)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) 120.6 (5th)


1982-83 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1983_leaders.html) 123.7 (2nd)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) 125.6 (1st)


1984-85 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985_leaders.html) 117.0 (18th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) 120.7 (7th)


1986-87 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1987_leaders.html) 121.0 (9th)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) 124.5 (4th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html) 119.3 (12th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html) 119.3 (12th)

win shares per 48





1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) .167 (16th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) .199 (6th)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) .189 (7th)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) .191 (10th)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) .187 (11th)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) .235 (1st)


1984-85 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985_leaders.html) .194 (7th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) .223 (3rd)


1986-87 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1987_leaders.html) .181 (11th)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) .210 (5th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_career.html) .189 (31st)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_career.html) .189 (33rd)



There's really no comparison. Same with English though not as dominant as the real AD. I watched them play. I guess I was more about results than flash and hype

[Xiao Yao You]

The number of shots that he took...and the amount that he made. I think you threw in ws/48 too, since you were talking about Dantley having better advanced numbers and thats the only metric that shows that.

Other than, like...watching him play...

Where you looking? Dantley

True shooting %


1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) .601 (6th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) .595 (5th)


1978-79 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1979_leaders.html) .589 (13th)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) .635 (4th)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) .622 (4th)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) .631 (3rd)


1982-83 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1983_leaders.html) .661 (2nd)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) .652 (2nd)


1984-85 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985_leaders.html) .607 (12th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) .629 (5th)


1986-87 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1987_leaders.html) .614 (9th)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) .619 (8th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html) .617 (8th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html) .617 (9th)

FT %(he shot a ton!)

EFG%



1978-79 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1979_leaders.html) .854 (12th)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) .842 (16th)


1982-83 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1983_leaders.html) .847 (5th)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) .859 (6th)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) .860 (18th)







1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) .520 (12th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) .512 (19th)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) .576 (4th)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) .559 (8th)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) .570 (6th)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) .558 (18th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) .563 (8th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/efg_pct_career.html) .540 (58th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/efg_pct_career.html) .540 (59th)

FG%




1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) .520 (12th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) .512 (19th)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) .576 (4th)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) .559 (7th)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) .570 (6th)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) .558 (18th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) .563 (8th)


1986-87 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1987_leaders.html) .534 (18th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg_pct_career.html) .540 (33rd)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg_pct_career.html) .540 (34th)

[ShawkFactory]

That all ties in to efficiency, not results.

Per these metrics, Zach Lavine is more efficient than Lillard. Both of which whom are far more efficient than Kobe ever was. Vince Carter was more efficient than Kobe a lot of years too.

Again, for someone who talks about Gobert and his screens as to why he's on Jokic or Embiid's level, you're wildly rigid with the numbers.

[Xiao Yao You]

Vorp




1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) 4.1 (12th)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) 3.8 (12th)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) 5.4 (3rd)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) 5.0 (7th)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) 4.7 (5th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) 4.8 (8th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_career.html) 43.7 (39th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_career.html) 43.7 (41st)

FT's(I know he was one of 4 players with 800 makes in a season at the time)





1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) 476 (3rd)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) 541 (1st)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) 443 (8th)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) 632 (1st)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) 648 (1st)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) 813 (1st)


1984-85 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985_leaders.html) 438 (10th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) 630 (1st)


1986-87 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1987_leaders.html) 539 (4th)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) 492 (6th)


1988-89 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1989_leaders.html) 460 (9th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ft_career.html) 6832 (10th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ft_career.html) 6832 (10th)

FTA





1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) 582 (5th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) 680 (1st)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) 526 (10th)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) 784 (2nd)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) 818 (2nd)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) 946 (1st)


1984-85 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985_leaders.html) 545 (12th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) 796 (1st)


1986-87 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1987_leaders.html) 664 (4th)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) 572 (8th)


1988-89 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1989_leaders.html) 568 (8th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fta_career.html) 8351 (15th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fta_career.html) 8351 (16th)




Really hard to find an argument for Wilkens over Dantley. It's not really even close. AD was arguably the best offensive player in the whole league by many metrics in some years

[Xiao Yao You]

That all ties in to efficiency, not results.

Per these metrics, Zach Lavine is more efficient than Lillard. Both of which whom are far more efficient than Kobe ever was. Vince Carter was more efficient than Kobe a lot of years too.

Again, for someone who talks about Gobert and his screens as to why he's on Jokic or Embiid's level, you're wildly rigid with the numbers.

Dantley led the Jazz to division titles and started their long playoff run. He had the results as well.

Dantley has him in many other categories. He turned it over less. Less FG attempts for similar numbers, 2 scoring titles to none, missed less FG's, Wilkens had much higher usage....

offensive win shares



1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) 8.2 (5th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) 9.6 (2nd)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) 9.5 (2nd)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) 12.3 (1st)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) 11.9 (1st)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) 13.0 (1st)


1984-85 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985_leaders.html) 5.6 (20th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) 10.4 (1st)


1986-87 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1987_leaders.html) 7.8 (8th)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) 7.5 (8th)


1988-89 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1989_leaders.html) 5.5 (20th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career.html) 111.4 (18th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career.html) 111.4 (19th)


offensive box +/-



1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) 2.7 (17th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) 3.9 (9th)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) 5.3 (3rd)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) 5.7 (1st)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) 5.8 (3rd)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) 5.8 (1st)


1984-85 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985_leaders.html) 4.2 (6th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) 6.0 (3rd)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) 3.7 (11th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/obpm_career.html) 4.1 (26th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/obpm_career.html) 4.1 (27th)

win shares




1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) 9.8 (13th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) 12.2 (2nd)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) 10.5 (10th)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) 13.6 (4th)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) 12.6 (6th)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) 14.6 (1st)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) 12.8 (2nd)


1986-87 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1987_leaders.html) 10.3 (11th)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) 9.4 (14th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html) 134.2 (35th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html) 134.2 (38th)

[ShawkFactory]

Dantley led the Jazz to division titles and started their long playoff run. He had the results as well.

Dantley has him in many other categories. He turned it over less. Less FG attempts for similar numbers, 2 scoring titles to none, missed less FG's, Wilkens had much higher usage....

offensive win shares



1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) 8.2 (5th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) 9.6 (2nd)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) 9.5 (2nd)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) 12.3 (1st)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) 11.9 (1st)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) 13.0 (1st)


1984-85 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985_leaders.html) 5.6 (20th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) 10.4 (1st)


1986-87 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1987_leaders.html) 7.8 (8th)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) 7.5 (8th)


1988-89 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1989_leaders.html) 5.5 (20th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career.html) 111.4 (18th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career.html) 111.4 (19th)


offensive box +/-



1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) 2.7 (17th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) 3.9 (9th)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) 5.3 (3rd)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) 5.7 (1st)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) 5.8 (3rd)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) 5.8 (1st)


1984-85 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985_leaders.html) 4.2 (6th)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) 6.0 (3rd)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) 3.7 (11th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/obpm_career.html) 4.1 (26th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/obpm_career.html) 4.1 (27th)

win shares




1976-77 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1977_leaders.html) 9.8 (13th)


1977-78 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1978_leaders.html) 12.2 (2nd)


1979-80 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1980_leaders.html) 10.5 (10th)


1980-81 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1981_leaders.html) 13.6 (4th)


1981-82 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1982_leaders.html) 12.6 (6th)


1983-84 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1984_leaders.html) 14.6 (1st)


1985-86 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_leaders.html) 12.8 (2nd)


1986-87 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1987_leaders.html) 10.3 (11th)


1987-88 NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1988_leaders.html) 9.4 (14th)


Career NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html) 134.2 (35th)


Career (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html) 134.2 (38th)



Shit...he’s a Jazz player. And you’re..this. I didn’t make that connection, what have I gotten myself in to :lol

Anyway, there was a 5 year stretch right in the middle of his prime where they failed to make the playoffs. 8 of 11 teams in each conference made the playoffs at that time.

He was a very good scorer on a bad franchise. I mean he played in 21 playoff games in his 7 years in Utah.
You say there’s nothing to prove that Dominque was anything more than a high volume low efficiency scorer. Well then there’s nothing to prove that Dantley was anything more than a “I’m just gonna go get mine” offensive guy with no concept of the team or anything else.

What happened with him in Detroit certainly doesn’t help the case against that.

[Xiao Yao You]

Shit...he’s a Jazz player. And you’re..this. I didn’t make that connection, what have I gotten myself in to :lol

Anyway, there was a 5 year stretch right in the middle of his prime where they failed to make the playoffs. 8 of 11 teams in each conference made the playoffs at that time.

He was a very good scorer on a bad franchise. I mean he played in 21 playoff games in his 7 years in Utah.
You say there’s nothing to prove that Dominque was anything more than a high volume low efficiency scorer. Well then there’s nothing to prove that Dantley was anything more than a “I’m just gonna go get mine” offensive guy with no concept of the team or anything else.

What happened with him in Detroit certainly doesn’t help the case against that.

Yeah he joined the worst franchise in the league and they sucked. Got better every year until the won the division title with the best record in the west during at the all star break. Only time before this year that happened. Started one of the longest playoff streaks in league history. Left the franchise to Stockton/Malone in good hands. There were 23 teams when the Mavs joined. Wasn't until the year the Jazz first made the playoffs that 16 teams made the playoffs. Only 6 in each conference before that. He averaged 3 assists a game to Wilkens 2.5. What else ya got? Dunk championships? :cheers:

[ShawkFactory]

Yeah he joined the worst franchise in the league and they sucked. Got better every year until the won the division title with the best record in the west during at the all star break. Only time before this year that happened. Started one of the longest playoff streaks in league history. Left the franchise to Stockton/Malone in good hands. There were 23 teams when the Mavs joined. Wasn't until the year the Jazz first made the playoffs that 16 teams made the playoffs. Only 6 in each conference before that. He averaged 3 assists a game to Wilkens 2.5. What else ya got? Dunk championships? :cheers:
Well the dunk contests were certainly fun, but he wasn't Gerald Green who was good at dunking creatively in the contest and didn't translate it as much to his game. Most people would probably put Dominique as a top 3 in-game dunker the game has seen. At least for a non-big man.

Not only does that put pressure on opposing teams to keep an eye out at all times, particularly on the glass, but the energy alone can lift a team and a crowd.

The bold is just an utterly ridiculous statement. If anything, Malone/Stockton didn't truly start to flourish until Dantley left. Same as the Bad Boys.

[Xiao Yao You]

Well the dunk contests were certainly fun, but he wasn't Gerald Green who was good at dunking creatively in the contest and didn't translate it as much to his game. Most people would probably put Dominique as a top 3 in-game dunker the game has seen. At least for a non-big man.

Not only does that put pressure on opposing teams to keep an eye out at all times, particularly on the glass, but the energy alone can lift a team and a crowd.

The bold is just an utterly ridiculous statement. If anything, Malone/Stockton didn't truly start to flourish until Dantley left. Same as the Bad Boys.

Stockton was great from day 1. They weren't smart enough to realize it of course. Dantley and Malone were close. Karl learned a lot from him in their year together. Not sure what was so ridiculous about it. He started the playoff streak that would continue for the next two decades with them. The Bad Boys were the best team in the league with Dantley. They replaced him with Isiah's buddy not because they were struggling. They started to flourish when they got AD. They had no inside game. That's why they got him in the first place

[Thenameless]

Dantley, English, King off hand. Check the numbers. Wilkins high usage, low efficiency, bad D.

Your takes are incredible. Dantley, English, and King all over Dominique Wilkins. All of these guys were a bit like Harden and Westbrook in that they get you a lot of empty calorie stats.

Dantley is empty calories and boring. Wilkins is empty calories and exciting. Figures a Utah guy would pick the boring option. Even Lebron and Durant didn't want to pick the Utah guys until the very end in the All Star Draft.

[3ball]

Your takes are incredible. Dantley, English, and King all over Dominique Wilkins. All of these guys were a bit like Harden and Westbrook in that they get you a lot of empty calorie stats.

Dantley is empty calories and boring. Wilkins is empty calories and exciting. Figures a Utah guy would pick the boring option. Even Lebron and Durant didn't want to pick the Utah guys until the very end in the All Star Draft.


Dantley, English, King, Dominique - goat 2-point shot-makers - only mount rushmore guys like mj and Bird and Elgin are ahead of them as 2-point shot-makers

[Xiao Yao You]

Your takes are incredible. Dantley, English, and King all over Dominique Wilkins. All of these guys were a bit like Harden and Westbrook in that they get you a lot of empty calorie stats.

Dantley is empty calories and boring. Wilkins is empty calories and exciting. Figures a Utah guy would pick the boring option. Even Lebron and Durant didn't want to pick the Utah guys until the very end in the All Star Draft.

Not sure what was boring about the best inch for inch low post scorer ever.

[ShawkFactory]

Stockton was great from day 1. They weren't smart enough to realize it of course. Dantley and Malone were close. Karl learned a lot from him in their year together. Not sure what was so ridiculous about it. He started the playoff streak that would continue for the next two decades with them. The Bad Boys were the best team in the league with Dantley. They replaced him with Isiah's buddy not because they were struggling. They started to flourish when they got AD. They had no inside game. That's why they got him in the first place

Jesus. I bet you were arguing that Dantley was like on Bird’s level back then.

[Xiao Yao You]

Jesus. I bet you were arguing that Dantley was like on Bird’s level back then.

why? Bird was an all time great. Dantley was a high scoring sf like Wilkens just a lot better

[TAZORAC]

Wilkins was equal to Jordan when you talk about PURE scoring.

[Xiao Yao You]

Wilkins was equal to Jordan when you talk about PURE scoring.

:facepalm