Top GOATs didn't team hop

[tpols]

Magic - Lakers
Bird - Celtics
Kobe - Lakers
Russell - Celtics
MJ - Bulls
Hakeem - Rockets
Duncan - Spurs

Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, and LeBron were the only team hoppers in the top 10 GOATs.

True GOATs don't team hop and especially not a million times like Shaq and LeBron.

[bullettooth]

Imagine team hopping and still having a losing finals record? LOL

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So Bron, Kareem and Shaq are not "true" GOATs for doing what GM's do ALL the time?

:confusedshrug:

That's beside the fact these 3 were the most DOMINANT to play their position.

[fourkicks44]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-53a6bf38c753de7c6abb5f4bc490b2e5

[SouBeachTalents]

The only one on that list who deserves props for not leaving is Hakeem. There'd be virtually no reason for Magic, Russell, Bird, Kobe or Duncan to leave when they were immediately drafted into championship contending teams

[RRR3]

4 of the top 5 players ever are “team hoppers”, so OP is full of shit as usual.

[Lebron23]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-53a6bf38c753de7c6abb5f4bc490b2e5

This. Kobe and his agent wanted him to play in LA rather than play for the Hornets

[PCCM_29]

Imagine team hopping and still having a losing finals record? LOL
you guys are so retarded

it's not only the team you have, its who you face

have 3 HOFs on your team is great "LEHELP LOADED STACKED" but vs a team with 5 HOFs, it's relative you dumb ****s

[tpols]

So Bron, Kareem and Shaq are not "true" GOATs for doing what GM's do ALL the time?

:confusedshrug:

That's beside the fact these 3 were the most DOMINANT to play their position.

Kareem isn't that bad. He only team hopped once. Shaw team hopped from the Magic (penny) to the Lakers (Kobe) to the Heat (wade) to the suns (Nash) to the Cavs (LeBron) to the Celtics (ray, rondo, garnett, pierce). That's actually pathetic. LeBron went from a contending Cavalier team to the Heat Big 3 ultimate collusion back to the Cavs with two All NBA talents and then to the Lakers with AD (Kareem). So he's not as bad as Shaw but it's pathetic those guys have less rings than guys like Duncan and Kobe who just stood pat.

[RRR3]

“It’s pathetic that Shaq has less rings than the guy he gave 3 rings to”-ttrolls





:yaohappy:

[RRR3]

It’s pathetic Hakeem has less rings than Robert Horry.

[tpols]

The only one on that list who deserves props for not leaving is Hakeem. There'd be virtually no reason for Magic, Russell, Bird, Kobe or Duncan to leave when they were immediately drafted into championship contending teams

Bird was drafted to a 20 win team lmao.

[Bronbron23]

Magic - Lakers
Bird - Celtics
Kobe - Lakers
Russell - Celtics
MJ - Bulls
Hakeem - Rockets
Duncan - Spurs

Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, and LeBron were the only team hoppers in the top 10 GOATs.

True GOATs don't team hop and especially not a million times like Shaq and LeBron.

Different era man. Not a huge fan of the team hoping but it is what it is. When in Rome

[tpols]

It’s pathetic Hakeem has less rings than Robert Horry.

All these guys are superstar talents. The Robert Horry argument puts a dunce cap on your head mate. And he was a huge team hopper too ironically.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

They were all spoiled rotton from those franchises. Winning it with different supporting casts show more versatility.

Magic stayed around for like 2 years after Kareem retired and then claimed he had aids? Kawhi was around for a year after Duncan retired. Not much different there.

Jordan/Kobe never made a finals without Phil Jackson

Hakeem - nobody remembers anything you did when Jordan/Pippen/Phil were around for full seasons

Russell - mostly playing in a league with 5-10 teams

Bird - always had Parish/McHale

Duncan - drafted into a team with the MVP just 2 seasons prior and then non American olympic gold medalist Manu after that

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird was drafted to a 20 win team lmao.
Please, dude had McHale/Parish/DJ within a couple of seasons, FOH :oldlol:

[RRR3]

All these guys are superstar talents. The Robert Horry argument puts a dunce cap on your head mate. And he was a huge team hopper too ironically.
You don’t deserve good arguments. Maybe if you ever make a good thread I’ll respond seriously but I’m not holding my breath.

[tpols]

Please, dude had McHale/Parish/DJ within a couple of seasons, FOH :oldlol:

The Celtics won their first title with Kevin McHale averaging 8 ppg. :roll:

Cedric Maxwell was Birds 2nd leading scorer for the entirety of the playoffs.

What are you smoking cuz? Lets see LeBron or Shaq win with a sidekick like that smh....

[SouBeachTalents]

The Celtics won their first title with Kevin McHale averaging 8 ppg. :roll: Cedric Maxwell was Birds 2nd leading scorer for the entirety of the playoffs. What are you smoking cuz? Lets see LeBron win with a sidekick like that averaging only 16 a game.
He did

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2013.html#all_playoffs_per_game

But yeah, downplay having THREE future HOF teammates for several years :oldlol: (4 including Walton)

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kareem isn't that bad. He only team hopped once. Shaw team hopped from the Magic (penny) to the Lakers (Kobe) to the Heat (wade) to the suns (Nash) to the Cavs (LeBron) to the Celtics (ray, rondo, garnett, pierce). That's actually pathetic. LeBron went from a contending Cavalier team to the Heat Big 3 ultimate collusion back to the Cavs with two All NBA talents and then to the Lakers with AD (Kareem). So he's not as bad as Shaw but it's pathetic those guys have less rings than guys like Duncan and Kobe who just stood pat.

I mean, Kobe was an unproven rookie and FAR from a finished product. Outside of Shaq that entire Lakers team were playoff chokers too. It took Phil, growing pains and a few trades to right that ship.

Don't see how Shaq "teamhopping" made him anything but great. He was a beast in LA. So much so people still argue that he is MDE. What happened with Miami was necessary because of the Kobe/Shaq beef. Or did you forget that Kobe gave his front office an ultimatum?

Phoenix and Boston were Shaq out of his prime. So if you want to call him a "ringchaser" then by all means. He did what MANY older role players do though. :confusedshrug:

Bron is another funny mention. Yeah the "Heatles" thing was lame, but it never really panned out the way we thought. It took GOAT-like series and playoff games from Bron just to win 2 titles. I don't understand why you focus on perception over results. What actually happened matters a lot more.

[LeFlopper]

This. Kobe and his agent wanted him to play in LA rather than play for the Hornets

Come on bro lol

[RRR3]

He did

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2013.html#all_playoffs_per_game

But yeah, downplay having THREE future HOF teammates for several years :oldlol: (4 including Walton)
You think he remembers anything about the years Bron won? He blocks that stuff out.

[SATAN]

MJ team hopped to the Birmingham Barons :facepalm

[RRR3]

I mean, Kobe was an unproven rookie and FAR from a finished product. Outside of Shaq that entire Lakers team were playoff chokers too. It took Phil, growing pains and a few trades to right that ship.

Don't see how Shaq "teamhopping" made him anything but great. He was a beast in LA. So much so people still argue that he is MDE. What happened with Miami was necessary because of the Kobe/Shaq beef. Or did you forget that Kobe gave his front office an ultimatum?

Phoenix and Boston were Shaq out of his prime. So if you want to call him a "ringchaser" then by all means. He did what MANY older role players do though. :confusedshrug:

Bron is another funny mention. Yeah the "Heatles" thing was lame, but it never really panned out the way we thought. It took GOAT-like series and playoff games from Bron just to win 2 titles. I don't understand why you focus on perception over results. What actually happened matters a lot more.
It’s really ironic the one year the Heat didn’t need LeBron to be ATG they lost.

[G0ATbe]

MJ team hopped though.... And instantaneously became a loser that never saw the playoffs again even with a star by his side:confusedshrug:. Cowherd said it best, MJ needs Phil Jackson, Pippen etc. All lebron needs is a ball:pimp:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It’s really ironic the one year the Heat didn’t need LeBron to be ATG they lost.

Yeah.

Many think that finals kicked him outta the GOAT convo. Permanently. I dont believe it'll be relevant if Bron wins another title or two though.

[HoopsNY]

The only one on that list who deserves props for not leaving is Hakeem. There'd be virtually no reason for Magic, Russell, Bird, Kobe or Duncan to leave when they were immediately drafted into championship contending teams

I wouldn't say Duncan or Bird were drafted onto championship contending teams. San Antonio hadn't been to a finals before Duncan, let alone won one. And the Celtics were a 29 win team before the arrival of Bird.

[ShawkFactory]

Magic - Lakers
Bird - Celtics
Kobe - Lakers
Russell - Celtics
MJ - Bulls
Hakeem - Rockets
Duncan - Spurs

Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, and LeBron were the only team hoppers in the top 10 GOATs.

True GOATs don't team hop and especially not a million times like Shaq and LeBron.
What do you mean “true GOAT”? There’s only one GOAT anyway. Playing for one team doesn’t make you better than Wilt, Shaq, or Lebron.

[FireDavidKahn]

Magic - Lakers
Bird - Celtics
Kobe - Lakers
Russell - Celtics
MJ - Bulls
Hakeem - Rockets
Duncan - Spurs

Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, and LeBron were the only team hoppers in the top 10 GOATs.

True GOATs don't team hop and especially not a million times like Shaq and LeBron.

Kobe refused to play for Charlotte :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

I wouldn't say Duncan or Bird were drafted onto championship contending teams. San Antonio hadn't been to a finals before Duncan, let alone won one. And the Celtics were a 29 win team before the arrival of Bird.
But they eventually got teams laden with future HOF's. Their supporting casts after roughly 7 years and LeBron's in Cleveland aren't even comparable, which is why the "they never left" argument is flimsy and disingenuous. It punishes a player on the sole basis of their original teams front office not being competent

[3ball]

Magic - Lakers
Bird - Celtics
Kobe - Lakers
Russell - Celtics
MJ - Bulls
Hakeem - Rockets
Duncan - Spurs

Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, and LeBron were the only team hoppers in the top 10 GOATs.

True GOATs don't team hop and especially not a million times like Shaq and LeBron.


Shaq and Lebron both have predictable skillsets that get figured out and therefore need ridiculous help, yet still lose a ton!!

Shaq was swept twice with prime Penny and then Hornacek/Ostertag swept his 4 all-star Lakers twice

And Lebron lost 4 times with super-teams (11', 14', 17', 21'), including the goat choke and record loss.. And he lost a weak East twice with the league favorite in 09' and 10'

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

But they eventually got teams laden with future HOF's. Their supporting casts after roughly 7 years and LeBron's in Cleveland aren't even comparable, which is why the "they never left" argument is flimsy and disingenuous. It punishes a player on the sole basis of their original teams front office not being competent

Yup, the same front office who shuffle players YEARLY.

Stacking the deck like KD is one thing, but a FA like Shaq joining LA back in 96? With rookie Kobe, NVE and Jones? Get real. OP better remember he's a Nets fan :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

Yup, the same front office who shuffle players YEARLY.

Stacking the deck like KD is one thing, but a FA like Shaq joining LA back in 96? With rookie Kobe, NVE and Jones? Get real. OP better remember he's a Nets fan :oldlol:
And let's be real, even after winning titles Kobe & Magic demanded trades and Duncan came within his wife being allowed on the team plane to joining McGrady & Hill in Orlando. Does OP really believe dudes like Magic & Kobe are staying in fcking Cleveland with Mo Williams as their best teammate :oldlol: Guaranteed they would've demanded trades way before their contracts were up

[warriorfan]

And let's be real, even after winning titles Kobe & Magic demanded trades and Duncan came within his wife being allowed on the team plane to joining McGrady & Hill in Orlando. Does OP really believe dudes like Magic & Kobe are staying in fcking Cleveland with Mo Williams as their best teammate :oldlol: Guaranteed they would've demanded trades way before their contracts were up

What about his other two team hops?

[SouBeachTalents]

What about his other two team hops?
You can definitely criticize him for leaving Miami, they could've still contended for a couple more seasons, esp if Bosh stayed healthy. Personally, I ain't blaming him for leaving Cleveland either time though, esp the first one. Those teams were clearly going nowhere, and both became worst in the league level after he left

[LeCola]

Magic - Lakers
Bird - Celtics
Kobe - Lakers
Russell - Celtics
MJ - Bulls
Hakeem - Rockets
Duncan - Spurs

Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, and LeBron were the only team hoppers in the top 10 GOATs.

True GOATs don't team hop and especially not a million times like Shaq and LeBron.

When you exceed it to 20:

hoppers:
Durant
M.Malone

non-hoppers:
Isiah
Dirk
Curry
Logo
Dr. J.
Wade
K. Malone (he was 40)

[3ball]

. Those Cavs teams through 2010 were going nowhere, and both became worst in the league level after he left





The media lies about the 2011 Cavs and people lap it up and ignore the reality.

The 2011 Cavs lost their entire starting 5, not just lebron - Mo, Shaq, Zydrunas, Delonte and Varejao were all out, which accounted for 52 ppg, or more than lebron's 30 ppg (or his PER, BPM and other stats).

Furthermore, Lebron ran off Kyrie in 17', and then ran off IT in 18'... Then Love was hurt in 19'... So once again, you're falling for lies from the media.. lebron simply drives franchises to shambles and then leaves.. he leaves after losing by record amount and running his best teammates out of town (14', 18'), or losing as the league favorite to other 1-star teams (09', 10')..

[SouBeachTalents]

When you exceed it to 20:

hoppers:
Durant
M.Malone

non-hoppers:
Isiah
Dirk
Curry
Logo
Dr. J.
Wade
K. Malone (he was 40)
The notion that recruiting and having ATG players join your team, like West, Dr. J, Wade & Curry did is fine and more noble than switching teams is just weird. Curry and the Dubs get no criticism for begging a top 3 player in his prime to join their already 73 win caliber team? :lol

[3ball]

The notion that recruiting and having ATG players join your team, like West, Dr. J, Wade & Curry did is fine and more noble than switching teams is just weird. Curry and the Dubs get no criticism for begging a top 3 player in his prime to join their already 73 win caliber team? :lol


How long did you expect everyone to let lebron bully the league with his super-teams??... :whatever:

So another star was bound to team up - the only reason it was so potent was because of Durant's skill, so he fit in without reducing anyone - Klay averaged 22+ as third option, while comparable guys like Love or Bosh were destroyed

You'll be results-oriented by saying Klay > Love or Bosh, but that's false until they joined lebron - klay was a 1st time all-star in 2015, while Love/Bosh were all-nba or perennial all-star

[RRR3]

Another night spent sobbing into his pillow for 3ball

[kawhileonard2]

Imagine team hopping and still having a losing finals record? LOL

lol

[3ball]

Another night spent sobbing into his pillow for 3ball


How long did you expect everyone to let lebron bully the league with his super-teams??... It's unbelievable that he got away with it for 6 years before someone realized what he was doing and stopped it.

And now people view Durant as the only colluder, as if Lebron didn't do the same thing since 2011 - he hand-picked the league favorite in 11, 15', 16', and 20'.

If we were going to define "manufacturing", a solid, intuitive definition would be forming a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning... That's what lebron did - before that, he was a 1-trick pony with 1 Finals run like Iverson, Dwight and Kidd... aka manufactured... aka fraud

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

3ball was in a coma during Boston's Big 3.

[RRR3]

3ball was in a coma during Boston's Big 3.
He will go completely insane if Bron gets to 6

[3ball]

3ball was in a coma during Boston's Big 3.


In 2009, Lebron and his 2 fringe all-stars ceded an easy Finals run to Dwight and his 1 fringe all-star

Then lebron ceded another run to a 1-star team in 2011 - lebron thought he needed a super-team, and Dirk gave him karma by winning with the organic, 1-star team that lebron thought was impossible

Lol.. the guys a joke

[warriorfan]

You can definitely criticize him for leaving Miami, they could've still contended for a couple more seasons, esp if Bosh stayed healthy. Personally, I ain't blaming him for leaving Cleveland either time though, esp the first one. Those teams were clearly going nowhere, and both became worst in the league level after he left

Not trying to be a douche but that invalidates your entire first post. It’s disingenuous to try to say lebron only team hopped because of Mo Williams.

[light]

Magic - Lakers
Bird - Celtics
Kobe - Lakers
Russell - Celtics
MJ - Bulls
Hakeem - Rockets
Duncan - Spurs

Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, and LeBron were the only team hoppers in the top 10 GOATs.

True GOATs don't team hop and especially not a million times like Shaq and LeBron.

They didn't have the power to do that back then. They didn't have someone to champion players rights like LeBron did (Oscar Robertson laid the groundwork but he was a generation before). In fact, a guy like Jordan accepted being underpaid for a long time. LeBron wouldn't have stood for that.

Eventually Jordan did threaten the Bulls with leaving but he was all talk.

[SouBeachTalents]

Not trying to be a douche but that invalidates your entire first post. It’s disingenuous to try to say lebron only team hopped because of Mo Williams.
It's pure speculation, but personally, if he had a true championship caliber roster, I don't think LeBron leaves Cleveland in 2010. I think the fact Mo Williams was his best teammate in Cleveland was a significant factor in him leaving. But it's hard to say for sure what LeBron does at 25 while getting clowned for several seasons for not having any rings. Maybe even with a better team he still goes to Miami, but it would be pure speculation to guess what would happen from either side of the argument.

In regards to leaving Miami, I believe he did it to both join a younger and potentially better team and to bring a championship to Cleveland. Just based on his reaction when he won in 2016 that was clearly very important to him

[Axe]

1*

[3ball]

If he had a true championship caliber roster, I don't think LeBron leaves Cleveland in 2010.





No one thought Dallas had a championship roster, but they won with the organic, 1-star roster that lebron thought was impossible

If Lebron stays in Cleveland, they would've been league favorites for the 3rd straight year, with the organic chemistry and top defense to easily destroy Dirk's Mavs.

They would've been the most experienced, organic team in the league, and they would've added another all-star caliber player just like they did in 09' and 10'..

So lebron gave up right before he was about to do something actually goat (winning organically in 2011)

Ultimately, it was perfect karma... Lebron has no excuse except he wanted a short cut... A cheat code.. and then Dirk proved that he should've stayed... lol.. instead, he decided to stack the deck (forming a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning)

[light]

LeBron, Kareem and Jordan are the three best players in history and Jordan is the odd man out there - the one that didn't stand up for himself.

[TheGoatest]

MJ - Bulls


https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200621202336/jordans-second-act-didnt-live-up-to-the-hype-1589817376-2.jpg

[dankok8]

What Kareem did isn't "hopping" onto a new team. He was traded from the Bucks and the Lakers gave several really good players in return. Plus it's not like the Lakers were a good team to begin with which is presumably the intention of this thread to suggest that past legends were ring chasing. The Lakers won 30 games the year before.

Shaq's move was actually a free agent move but it was nothing like what modern players are doing in terms of stacking the deck either. Shaq signed with an LA team that won 53 games but lost in the 1st round the year before. Magic retired, Ceballos traded, Divac traded (for 18-year old Kobe) leaving Shaq with a decent roster of Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Elden Campbell etc. Nothing super exciting. Shaq left to be in LA with the stars, make rap albums and get movie roles.

Wilt.. eh maybe moving to the Lakers to play with West and Baylor was. It did create a superteam.

Another one that I can think of from history is Moses Malone who practically joined a stacked Sixers team (in actuality traded for defensive center Caldwell Jones).

But yea past legends didn't do what guys today are doing. And I won't even pretend it's just their personalities. It just wasn't possible in that NBA. The salary caps, the restrictive nature of free agency... It's not even that those guys wouldn't collude. They just couldn't collude.

[SATAN]

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200621202336/jordans-second-act-didnt-live-up-to-the-hype-1589817376-2.jpg

Roids.

[SATAN]

It's pure speculation, but personally, if he had a true championship caliber roster, I don't think LeBron leaves Cleveland in 2010. I think the fact Mo Williams was his best teammate in Cleveland was a significant factor in him leaving. But it's hard to say for sure what LeBron does at 25 while getting clowned for several seasons for not having any rings. Maybe even with a better team he still goes to Miami, but it would be pure speculation to guess what would happen from either side of the argument.

In regards to leaving Miami, I believe he did it to both join a younger and potentially better team and to bring a championship to Cleveland. Just based on his reaction when he won in 2016 that was clearly very important to him

He wasn't happy with how Cleveland was run. Dan Gilbert seemed like an idiot at the time. He was just cashing in on LeBron's name.

Personally I wouldn't give a shit if MJ did the same thing. He'd still be a great basketball player.

[hateraid]

I guess Brady is not a GOAT for team hopping. Same with Joe Montana.
Stupid thread OP

[hateraid]

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200621202336/jordans-second-act-didnt-live-up-to-the-hype-1589817376-2.jpg

Apparently it's not team hopping when you choose your team. Oh wait....

[SouBeachTalents]

I guess Brady is not a GOAT for team hopping. Same with Joe Montana.
Stupid thread OP
Wayne Gretzky & Babe Ruth too

[3ball]

No one thought Dallas had a championship roster, but they won with the organic, 1-star roster that lebron thought was impossible

If Lebron stays in Cleveland, they would've been league favorites for the 3rd straight year, with the organic chemistry and top defense to easily destroy Dirk's Mavs.

They would've been the most experienced, organic team in the league, and they would've added another all-star caliber player just like they did in 09' and 10'..

So lebron gave up right before he was about to do something actually goat (winning organically in 2011)

Ultimately, it was perfect karma... Lebron has no excuse except he wanted a short cut... A cheat code.. and then Dirk proved that he should've stayed... lol.. instead, he decided to stack the deck (forming a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning)


SouBeach on his bike again

[Hey Yo]

Kareem isn't that bad. He only team hopped once. Shaw team hopped from the Magic (penny) to the Lakers (Kobe) to the Heat (wade) to the suns (Nash) to the Cavs (LeBron) to the Celtics (ray, rondo, garnett, pierce). That's actually pathetic. LeBron went from a contending Cavalier team to the Heat Big 3 ultimate collusion back to the Cavs with two All NBA talents and then to the Lakers with AD (Kareem). So he's not as bad as Shaw but it's pathetic those guys have less rings than guys like Duncan and Kobe who just stood pat.
Kareem demanded to be traded (to knicks or lakers) or he'd sit out the season.

That's a complete bitch move. LeBron's never demanded to be traded and always played out his contracts.

[Airupthere]

Changing teams is not so much of an issue. This sequence is though:

1. Calls up his buddies and forms superteam in Miami ("I'm taking my talents to South Beach")
2. Lineup is so dominant compared to the conf and the league that it led him so claim "Not 1, not 2, not 3... not 8"
3. Instead, the superteam goes on to do 2/4, and loses to two aging teams.

That kind of jumping ship only to fail is what should disqualify anyone from top 5.

[2much_knowledge]

I don't have issue with Kareem or Wilt

Kareem was traded and at the time, he didn't know who the hell magic or worthy was

Wilt was out of prime and won one by himself

But Shaq and Lebron??? Lololololol. The ultimate grasshoppers

[Lebron23]

I don't have issue with Kareem or Wilt

Kareem was traded and at the time, he didn't know who the hell magic or worthy was

Wilt was out of prime and won one by himself

But Shaq and Lebron??? Lololololol. The ultimate grasshoppers

You're an idiot.

[TheCorporation]

TOP Goats just win with everyone

https://i.postimg.cc/KjvNn2fH/Nothing_Finer.png

Sorry other players couldn't.

[2much_knowledge]

You're an idiot.

Did i lie?? Lol

[2much_knowledge]

TOP Goats just win with everyone

https://i.postimg.cc/KjvNn2fH/Nothing_Finer.png

Sorry other players couldn't.

Not 3, not 5 , not 6 , not 7

4th year and i jump

Im home, i wanna finish my career here

4th year and i jump

Empty promises and 4th year grasshopping

Pathetic

G.o.a.t = going on another team lololol

[HoopsNY]

But they eventually got teams laden with future HOF's. Their supporting casts after roughly 7 years and LeBron's in Cleveland aren't even comparable, which is why the "they never left" argument is flimsy and disingenuous. It punishes a player on the sole basis of their original teams front office not being competent

Great point.

[colts19]

The only one on that list who deserves props for not leaving is Hakeem. There'd be virtually no reason for Magic, Russell, Bird, Kobe or Duncan to leave when they were immediately drafted into championship contending teams

How is a team that won 29 games the year before a championship team. Asking for a friend.

[colts19]

He did

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2013.html#all_playoffs_per_game

But yeah, downplay having THREE future HOF teammates for several years :oldlol: (4 including Walton)

Robert Parish was just another guy till he played with Bird. Kevin was a black hole and DJ was past his prime for most of his time as a celtic. Bill Walton was a shadow of himself that played like 18 mins a game. Get serious. That Celtic team was a championship contender because of Bird.

[3ball]

TOP Goats don't mostly lose with everyone





Fixed


* 2/4 with Kobe-Pau II (Wade/Bosh), including the goat choke and record loss

* 1/4 with Kyrie/Love/IT (ran off Kyrie and IT)

* lottery in West until AD arrived and made Lebron his pippen

[2much_knowledge]

Fixed


* 2/4 with Kobe-Pau II (Wade/Bosh), including the goat choke and record loss

* 1/4 with Kyrie/Love/IT (ran off Kyrie and IT)

* lottery in West until AD arrived and made Lebron his pippen

Bodied

[Hey Yo]

I don't have issue with Kareem or Wilt

Kareem was traded and at the time, he didn't know who the hell magic or worthy was

Wilt was out of prime and won one by himself

But Shaq and Lebron??? Lololololol. The ultimate grasshoppers
Kareem demanded to be traded to either the NYK or Lakers. If he wasn't, he was going to sit out the season.

That's a bitch move.

[2much_knowledge]

Kareem demanded to be traded to either the NYK or Lakers. If he wasn't, he was going to sit out the season.

That's a bitch move.

If true , i didn't know that. Thanks for the info. But it didn't have another top 10 player in the lakers waiting for him

[Hey Yo]

Fixed


* 2/4 with Kobe-Pau II (Wade/Bosh), including the goat choke and record loss

* 1/4 with Kyrie/Love/IT (ran off Kyrie and IT)

* lottery in West until AD arrived and made Lebron his pippen

When you go these great lengths of exaggeration..... it just shows you know James is the GOAT.

[3ball]

:facepalm:

[Hey Yo]

If true , i didn't know that. Thanks for the info. But it didn't have another top 10 player in the lakers waiting for him
https://behindthebuckpass.com/2016/09/07/milwaukee-bucks-history-kareem-abdul-jabbar-trade/

It's more about bitching out of your contract and making trade demands or else I won't play, than it is about who was on the LA roster at the time.

[3ball]

When you go these great lengths of exaggeration..... it just shows you know James is the GOAT.


It's statistical fact:



2010 Wade... 28 PER... 9.2 BPM
2010 Kobe.... 21 PER... 4.4 BPM

Bosh (pre-lebron).... 6x all-star
Pau (pre-kobe)........ 1x all-star


^^^ lebron teamed up with Kobe-Pau II and went 2/4 including the goat choke and record loss.

[Hey Yo]

It's statistical fact:



2010 Wade... 28 PER... 9.2 BPM
2010 Kobe.... 21 PER... 4.4 BPM

Bosh (pre-lebron).... 6x all-star
Pau (pre-kobe)........ 1x all-star


^^^ lebron teamed up with Kobe-Pau II and went 2/4 including the goat choke and record loss.
What were Wade's and Bosh's PER in 2011 AFTER playing together?

[3ball]

What were Wade's and Bosh's PER in 2011 AFTER player together?


Wade had top 5 PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP for 2011 and 2012

Lebron was actually the "pippen" in the 11' Playoffs, just like 2020.... and 1a/1b in 2016 Playoffs and 14' ECF.... only 5 ppg gap in 13' Finals

[Hey Yo]

Wade had top 5 PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP for 2011 and 2012

Lebron was actually the "pippen" in the 11' Playoffs, just like 2020.... and 1a/1b in 2016 Playoffs and 14' ECF.... only 5 ppg gap in 13' Finals

And Bosh?????

[3ball]

And Bosh?????


3rd options like Klay averaged 22+, or the current Nets trio that average 25 ppg - these guys weren't reduced like Bosh, Love, Kuzma, and countless other 3rd options that lebron had

It's not a fair comparison

The difference is that Klay/Curry or KD/Harden/Kyrie all have elite jumpshooting skill and therefore can slide seamlessly between the "shooter" and ball-handler roles.. so they don't reduce each other... Otoh, lebron lacks elite jumpshooting skill, so he's restricted to ball-dominance and doesn't fit with fellow spotty-shooting ball-handlers like Wade, Hughes, Ingram, IT, Rose, etc, etc, etc

[Hey Yo]

3rd options like Klay averaged 22+, or the current Nets trio that average 25 ppg - these guys weren't reduced like Bosh, Love, Kuzma, and countless other 3rd options that lebron had

It's not a fair comparison

all have elite jumpshooting skill and therefore can slide seamlessly between the "shooter" and ball-handler roles

Just as I thought.......... more deflection.

[3ball]

Just as I thought.......... more deflection.


you already conceded on Wade - that lost you the argument because everyone knows that lebron destroyed Bosh.. so that's a a solid win - such clear-cut wins are rarely seen on ISH so I feel good and the original points stand:

2/4 with Kobe-Pau II (Wade/Bosh), including the goat choke and record loss.... 1/4 with Kyrie/Love/IT (ran off Kyrie and IT)... lottery in West until AD arrived and made Lebron his pippen

[Hey Yo]

What were Bosh's PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP for 2011 and 2012??

[3ball]

What were Bosh's PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP for 2011 and 2012??


What was Wade's? (hint... better than kobe's)

Btw, don't run from this: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?491953-What-s-the-tougher-path-to-a-title

[Hey Yo]

What was Wade's? (hint... better than kobe's)

Btw, don't run from this: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?491953-What-s-the-tougher-path-to-a-title

You're the one touting Bosh, not me.

What was his PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP for 2011 and 2012??

Your constant deflection just screams that you know James is the GOAT.

[Axe]

Fixed


* 2/4 with Kobe-Pau II (Wade/Bosh), including the goat choke and record loss

* 1/4 with Kyrie/Love/IT (ran off Kyrie and IT)

* lottery in West until AD arrived and made Lebron his pippen
Lol IT has never played in the finals, doofus.

[3ball]

Lol IT has never played in the finals, doofus.

1/4 isn't Finals record; it's him winning rings 1 in 4 years with Kyrie/Love/IT

Ultimately, Jordan has the goat championship frequency in 3-pointer history/modern era of 40% (6/15)

[Axe]

1/4 isn't Finals record; it's him winning rings 1 in 4 years with Kyrie/Love/IT

Ultimately, Jordan has the goat championship frequency in 3-pointer history/modern era of 40% (6/15)
Too bad the fact still remains though. So stop deflecting.

[3ball]

.
Bosh (pre-lebron).... 6x all-star
Pau (pre-kobe)........ 1x all-star

2010 Wade... 28 PER... 9.2 BPM
2010 Kobe.... 21 PER... 4.4 BPM




You're the one touting Bosh, not me.

What was his PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP for 2011 and 2012??

Your constant deflection just screams that you know James is the GOAT.


Bosh wasn't hurt and he didn't suddenly become a bad player - lebron simply destroyed him just like Love, Jamison, Crowder, Ingram, Rose, IT, Hughes, Kuzma, Hood, etc, etc, etc

So Bosh was the same guy that was superior to Pau (accolades above), but Lebron destroyed him.. Ultimately, Lebron teamed up with Kobe-Pau II and went 2/4 including the goat choke and record loss.

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Kareem's reasoning for leaving Milwaukee was perfectly valid and he only really did it once, but then again once Magic joined the fold why the hell would he consider playing elsewhere

As usual some nonsense being spewed in comments. West was hell bent on drafting Kobe and at the time it wasn't a lock the Lakers were getting Shaq, the Lakers also wasted Kobe's absolute prime (and post-peak although not really the FO's fault for that) so I don't want to hear it. Expecting the so called MDE (which he was at his peak) to be in shape is perfectly valid, the fact he actually was in shape in Miami (which was not the case in 2003 or 2004) only reaffirms it

The 60s was a small league but also condensed league, we have plenty of evidence of Russell being the catalyst behind why his teammates were as successful as they were. The anti-Wilt/LeBron in many ways

Jordan dealt with crackheads earlier in his career, Phil/Krause was a blessing (and a curse) as was Pippen's development but it wasn't all good fortune for him, still dealt with bad ownership and still often dealt with some very deep rosters in the finals that just didn't have a player anywhere near MJ's caliber despite the advantage in depth

Obviously Magic/Bird/Duncan were in great situations with no incentive to leave, and Hakeem was blessed early on but once Sampson was unable to play he was put in a pretty bad spot in what should have been his best years, making something out of 1994 will always have me hold Hakeem's career in very high regard despite just 2 rings

As for Wilt and LeBron, Wilt really should have stuck around as the Warriors had something brewing with him and Thurmond. I don't know about getting Barry who helped them reach the finals against, ironically, Wilt's 76ers, but it was clear he had issues dealing with the Celtics and it really didn't seem to matter how wide the talent disparity was because even with a superteam of his own in 1969 (and the Celtics were def not a superteam by then if you even want to call the 60s Celtics that) he screwed that one up. Wilt had too many blunders, I've always held that against him and always will

LeBron didn't have the talent advantage vs Celtics but his game 5 was inexcusable, that team went from being a finals caliber roster filled with veteran former AS depth (Shaq was literally 3rd team the previous season, and outplayed LeBron in game 5) with so many different unique players that they could throw on any lineup (they had size, they had 3&D guards/wings, they had supposedly the best player in the league (wrong :lol)) to a team of bums overnight. Get the **** out of here, the Celtics were getting old anyway, should have ran it back

And then 2014 was pointless because the league was so wide open heading into that season, the Spurs were old, were getting older, and no one saw Kawhi or the Warriors coming so it's obvious he took advantage of what looked like a wide open NBA and just tried to build a superteam in Cleveland to get easy rings once Wade/Bosh got old. Love was fresh off 26/14 and Kyrie was young and expected to make a leap

The AD one isn't quite as bad other than that he gutted that roster once it was clear they didn't fit his bronball skillset (we all know he wanted to see if a young very talented squad would help him form a more natural superteam) and proceeded to have by far the best "sidekick" (who was arguably better) in a very depleted 2020 season which started with no actual threat due to the KD Warriors disbanding

It's just shortcuts, and all KD has ever done is beat LeBron at his own game. Winning in 2017/2018 would have been unreasonable, having a much better record than one for ****ing eight would not have been unreasonable

Even in 2020, the absolute easiest road LeBron could have had, it still took 6 games to take down a weak depleted Heat squad and truth be told he wasn't even the best wing in that series, Butler had some empty stats in some games and was underwhelming in others but his games 3 and 5 were legendary, bubble inflation be damned