Pg vs Pippen 3 ball and Hbk can I please get your personal thoughts on this.

[coastalmarker99]

While both 3 ball and HBK call each of these two players bums in order to prop up Jordan and Kawhi


I was wondering which player out of the two they would choose to be Kawhi's sidekick or Jordan's sidekick.




I think Hbk would take Pippen to pair alongside Kawhi.


And I think 3 ball would take anybody even scrubs over Pippen with the way he hates on that man.

[3ball]

George would get crucified for playing like Pippen

He infact did get crucified for playing like Pippen against the Nuggets

Otoh, Pippen averaged 19/7/3 on 42% in the 97' Finals and was last in clutch points, yet he never caught flak for it.. He averaged 15 on 34% in the 96' Finals and most people aren't even aware of this... his many faceplants aren't noticed and people didn't care because it was all about mj

Ultimately, Paul George didn't have MJ, yet he's still superior to Pippen, so George would be all-world alongside mj.. mj took all the pressure off

[coastalmarker99]

George would get crucified for playing like Pippen

He infact did get crucified for playing like Pippen against the Nuggets

Otoh, Pippen averaged 19/7/3 on 42% in the 97' Finals and was last in clutch points, yet he never caught flak for it.. He averaged 15 on 34% in the 96' Finals and most people aren't even aware of this... his many faceplants aren't noticed and people didn't care because it was all about mj

Ultimately, Paul George didn't have MJ, yet he's still superior to Pippen, so George would be all-world alongside mj



Pippen was third in MVP voting in 1994 and lead the Bulls in 4 out 5 of stats that season plus he was also the Allstar game MVP that season as well


And He was also a lockdown defender throughout the 1990s resulting in 8× NBA All-Defensive First Team for the man and 2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team.


Plus he was throughout the 1990's






3× All-NBA First Team (1994–1996)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1992, 1997)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1993, 1998)

NBA steals leader (1995)

[Gohan]

Lmao at people bringing up pippen in 94 and his 22 ppg. Roflmbao

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Pippen is the better player on championship teams because his intangibles as Pippen is better at ball handling, passing, defense, being a floor general. Can Paul George shoot better? Sure but his efficiency always declines in playoffs, so it doesn't really move the needle here.

Pippen has also been the leader of VORP on a top 2 SRS team in 2000, while Paul George has only led top 8-12 SRS teams. The one season that Paul George came close to being on a top 5 SRS team without Kawhi was in 2017-18 and Westbrook nearly tripled his VORP that season.

Both seem like idiots off the court but Pippen is just like 5x smarter on the court. Remember, Phil Jackson said that Scottie Pippen was the smartest player he ever coached and always telling teammates where to be on the court. George has never been spoken highly of that by any coach, let alone Phil f*cking Jackson.

[mehyaM24]

Lmao at people bringing up pippen in 94 and his 22 ppg. Roflmbao

top 3 in mvp voting and top 10 in basically every advanced stat. guess you're laughing at how "weak" the 90s were.

[coastalmarker99]

Pippen is the better player on championship teams because his intangibles as Pippen is better at ball handling, passing, defense, being a floor general. Can Paul George shoot better? Sure but his efficiency always declines in playoffs, so it doesn't really move the needle here.

Pippen has also been the leader of VORP on a top 2 SRS team in 2000, while Paul George has only led top 8-12 SRS teams. The one season that Paul George came close to being on a top 5 SRS team without Kawhi was in 2017-18 and Westbrook nearly tripled his VORP that season.

Both seem like idiots off the court but Pippen is just like 5x smarter on the court. Remember, Phil Jackson said that Scottie Pippen was the smartest player he ever coached and always telling teammates where to be on the court. George has never been spoken highly of that by any coach, let alone Phil f*cking Jackson.

You get it unlike 3ball :applause:

[NBAGOAT]

i dont think pippen has a year as good as 19 george. that was a great carryjob when westbrook wasnt playing that well. george's streakiness does hurt him in the playoffs but I think it's even more so his nagging injury issues. He was borderline top 10 this year til his bone edema(and the league's top end talent is elite this year). Clips just have to hope he's healthy in playoffs.

[HoopsNY]

Lmao at people bringing up pippen in 94 and his 22 ppg. Roflmbao

Pippen's 1994 season was remarkable. 22/9/6 on 49% and he was 3rd in MVP voting, All-Defensive 1st Team, All-NBA 1st Team, leading his team to 55 wins without the greatest player of all time.

This forum really suffers from revisionist history. The reality is in 1994, Pippen was highly regarded and praised extensively for his elite play.

You know you've completely lost the plot when you're going to shit on a player who finished 3rd in MVP voting.

[HoopsNY]

i dont think pippen has a year as good as 19 george. that was a great carryjob when westbrook wasnt playing that well. george's streakiness does hurt him in the playoffs but I think it's even more so his nagging injury issues. He was borderline top 10 this year til his bone edema(and the league's top end talent is elite this year). Clips just have to hope he's healthy in playoffs.

2019 George is better in terms of scoring because PG is a better shooter than Pippen was. But the complete package can't be argued. I'll take Pippen's combination of scoring-playmaking-rebounding-perimeter defense over George's. They're both sketchy at times in the playoffs, but Pippen offers more as a package than PG does.

You also have to consider that the league pace and PPG were much higher between the two years.

League Pace 2019: 100.0
League Pace 1994: 95.1

League PPG 2019: 111.2
League PPG 1994: 101.2

[warriorfan]

:roll:

5* thread op.

[Axe]

Pippen's 1994 season was remarkable. 22/9/6 on 49% and he was 3rd in MVP voting, All-Defensive 1st Team, All-NBA 1st Team, leading his team to 55 wins without the greatest player of all time.

This forum really suffers from revisionist history. The reality is in 1994, Pippen was highly regarded and praised extensively for his elite play.

You know you've completely lost the plot when you're going to shit on a player who finished 3rd in MVP voting.
:cheers:

[mehyaM24]

Pippen's 1994 season was remarkable. 22/9/6 on 49% and he was 3rd in MVP voting, All-Defensive 1st Team, All-NBA 1st Team, leading his team to 55 wins without the greatest player of all time.

This forum really suffers from revisionist history. The reality is in 1994, Pippen was highly regarded and praised extensively for his elite play.

You know you've completely lost the plot when you're going to shit on a player who finished 3rd in MVP voting.

this forum has blind haters for every star lol. the pippen hate is out of control though. there are people, jordan fans especially, who really just boil him down to PPG. and that's ironic because pippen scored better than many #1s and most #2s from that era. i wonder if they understand what this implies :oldlol:

[Axe]

this forum has blind haters for every star lol. the pippen hate is out of control though. there are people, jordan fans especially, who really just boil him down to PPG. and that's ironic because pippen scored better than many #1s and most #2s from that era. i wonder if they understand what this implies :oldlol:
But a lot do know well that 3ball is the worst of them all.

[Thenameless]

I don't know why this is even up for discussion. The best argument for Paul George was some good playoff runs with Indiana, and one really good regular season.

Even though Jordan is one of the best to ever play, he himself showed that no one man can do it alone in a team sport. Pippen and his skillset was the ultimate complementary piece to a guy like Jordan. It resulted in 6 titles. PG will be largely a forgotten man 20 years from now.

[coastalmarker99]

If you want to know how good Pippen was as a player then I suggest watching these videos about him.








https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9vFHYVXtRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p46h93rRAt0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1YchiFv-5M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M79eJyW_T0M&t=54s



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBXKpWfHH-Q

[3ball]

Pippen is the better player on championship teams because his intangibles as Pippen is better at ball handling, passing, defense, being a floor general. Can Paul George shoot better? Sure but his efficiency always declines in playoffs, so it doesn't really move the needle here.

Pippen has also been the leader of VORP on a top 2 SRS team in 2000, while Paul George has only led top 8-12 SRS teams. The one season that Paul George came close to being on a top 5 SRS team without Kawhi was in 2017-18 and Westbrook nearly tripled his VORP that season.

Both seem like idiots off the court but Pippen is just like 5x smarter on the court. Remember, Phil Jackson said that Scottie Pippen was the smartest player he ever coached and always telling teammates where to be on the court. George has never been spoken highly of that by any coach, let alone Phil f*cking Jackson.


Pippen was a basic ball-handler that couldn't break down his man and his 5 assists doesn't qualify him as a floor general anymore than the other 20 guys averaging 5 assists.

Jordan averaged more assists than Pippen in the regular season and Playoffs, while leading the Bulls in assists for most playoff runs.. More importantly, MJ can't assist on his own shots and his volume was higher, so his assist percentage was much higher than Pippen's (33% higher) - Jordan assisted 33% more often than Pippen, yet you're calling Pippen a "floor general"... lol you've been caught red-handed overrating a basic ball-handler like Pippen. No one ever said "great move" about Pippen.

Ultimately, when did Pippen ever play at a top 30 all-time level? ever?.. the stats prove he's about 120th all-time

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Pippen was a basic ball-handler that couldn't break down his man and his 5 assists doesn't qualify him as a floor general anymore than the other 20 guys averaging 5 assists.

Jordan averaged more assists than Pippen in the regular season and Playoffs, while leading the Bulls in assists for most playoff runs.. More importantly, MJ can't assist on his own shots and his volume was higher, so his assist percentage was much higher than Pippen's (33% higher) - Jordan assisted 33% more often than Pippen, yet you're calling Pippen a "floor general"... lol you've been caught red-handed overrating a basic ball-handler like Pippen. No one ever said "great move" about Pippen.

Ultimately, when did Pippen ever play at a top 30 all-time level? ever?.. the stats prove he's about 120th all-time

Assists doesn't always translate to being a floor general for me. Westbrook is a great assists guy but i don't consider him a floor general. Pippen is usually directing traffic and telling everybody where to be, he did it with bulls and then he did it with Portland as well. I agree Pippen isn't a good iso player but he's good at bringing the ball up and setting up the offense.

So Pippen is basically like having Klay+Draymond if they were molded into one person. You get the Klay scoring with the Draymond ball handling\floor general\defense.

[3ball]

Assists doesn't always translate to being a floor general for me. Westbrook is a great assists guy but i don't consider him a floor general. Pippen is usually directing traffic and telling everybody where to be, he did it with bulls and then he did it with Portland as well. I agree Pippen isn't a good iso player but he's good at bringing the ball up and setting up the offense.

So Pippen is basically like having Klay+Draymond if they were molded into one person. You get the Klay scoring with the Draymond ball handling\floor general\defense.


So apg doesn't matter and ppg doesn't matter because Pippen wasn't that good at either, aka you're talking out of your ass

And spare me on the Westbrook comparison..

Westbrook won 50+ without a 3-peat system by averaging 30/10/10 and winning league MVP.

Pippen never came anywhere close to this caliber.

Ultimately, MJ won 6 Finals with Pippen averaging 19/8/5 on 42%, so he'd win 10+ rings with Westbrook getting 30/10/10 on-ball and MJ getting his normal goat production off-ball... It would be a perfect match and the goat combo ever.. it's basically like having 2 MJ:s

[8Ball]

I'd take 1 Scottie Pippen over 2 Paul George.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

So apg doesn't matter and ppg doesn't matter because Pippen wasn't that good at either, aka you're talking out of your ass

And spare me on the Westbrook comparison..

Westbrook won 50+ without a 3-peat system by averaging 30/10/10 and winning league MVP.

Pippen never came anywhere close to this caliber.

Ultimately, MJ won 6 Finals with Pippen averaging 19/8/5 on 42%, so he'd win 10+ rings with Westbrook getting 30/10/10 on-ball and MJ getting his normal goat production off-ball... It would be a perfect match and the goat combo ever.. it's basically like having 2 MJ:s

This is not baseball where you can just look at stats and say "ok i know everything that happened". There's certain things you just have to watch to understand.

[8Ball]

This is not baseball where you can just look at stats and say "ok i know everything that happened". There's certain things you just have to watch to understand.

He hasn't watched basketball since 1998. You have to be kind to him.

[NBAGOAT]

2019 George is better in terms of scoring because PG is a better shooter than Pippen was. But the complete package can't be argued. I'll take Pippen's combination of scoring-playmaking-rebounding-perimeter defense over George's. They're both sketchy at times in the playoffs, but Pippen offers more as a package than PG does.

You also have to consider that the league pace and PPG were much higher between the two years.

League Pace 2019: 100.0
League Pace 1994: 95.1

League PPG 2019: 111.2
League PPG 1994: 101.2

Well 19 George was playing all nba level defense that year. I think he does enough on defense for his scoring edge to give him the nod though pippen has playmaking. Also per 100 stats account for pace relative ts% accounts for era.

George 19: 35.5/10.3/5.2/3.4to 58.3ts%(lg avg 56.0)

Pippen 94: 30.0/11.9/7.6/4.4to 54.4ts%(lg avg 52.8)

We don’t have impact metrics for pippen but George is good as anyone not named Giannis or harden if not better by those(LEBRON, raptor, rpm, la-rapm) during the 19 RS. Yes this even includes curry and durant who tbf were coasting on gs

[2much_knowledge]

Pg at its best is a more dynamic player. Better scorer, better shooter and better ball handler. Pippen was just more intelligent, savy and consistent. And a slightly better defender. It could go both ways

[Lebron23]

Pg at its best is a more dynamic player. Better scorer, better shooter and better ball handler. Pippen was just more intelligent, savy and consistent. And a slightly better defender. It could go both ways

Pippen was the greatest defender in the 1990's. a much better defender than Michael Jordan

[HoopsNY]

Pippen was the greatest defender in the 1990's. a much better defender than Michael Jordan

This shows you didn't watch basketball throughout the 90s. Hakeem was the best defensive player of the 90s, followed by guys like Robinson, GP, and MJ. Pippen is up there, but he wasn't a better defender in the 90s, let a alone a "much better" defender.

The argument is significantly skewed to begin with. For one, MJ wasn't around in the 1994 and 1995 season (except for 17 games in 1995). So Pippen's defense stands out largely because of MJ's absence.

In addition, MJ retired in 1998. Pippen played in 1999 and won All-Defensive honors. So that's literally 3 seasons that appear to favor Pippen, but isn't a fair rubric given that MJ wasn't even present.

[2much_knowledge]

Pippen was the greatest defender in the 1990's. a much better defender than Michael Jordan

Jordan in your mind 24/7. He has nothing to do with the topic

[Lebron23]

Jordan in your mind 24/7. He has nothing to do with the topic

because he's a better defender than Jordan. watch this highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJWywIZ-F7U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9vFHYVXtRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p46h93rRAt0

[2much_knowledge]

because he's a better defender than Jordan. watch this highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJWywIZ-F7U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9vFHYVXtRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p46h93rRAt0

Don't need to. I know 90s basketball inside out. You just brought Mj to the ray allen topic too lol.

Rent free

[3ball]

because he's a better defender than Jordan. watch this highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJWywIZ-F7U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9vFHYVXtRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p46h93rRAt0


Let's compare apples to apples - Jordan and Pippen guarding the same player - gifs incoming




Grant Hill bullies Pippen super-easy:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/4UeQlI.gif



Whereas MJ's superior aggressiveness and strength makes Grant Hill work super-hard:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/AXOd7a.gif

[3ball]

.
Pippen couldn't handle quick wings with good handle like Hill or Kobe:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/NZrhCv.gif



Here's Kobe shaking his head after breaking Pippen BADLY in 99' - Pippen is joke to him:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/DtKoPr.gif..



But just a few months earlier, Jordan had no problem stuffing Kobe's crossover in 98' ASG:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/EStPHq.gif



Here's another one - Pippen can't handle Grant off-the-dribble - he can't stay in front:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-09-2015/5FXjSn.gif



But MJ can - he stays in front of Grant every step of the way and forces wild shot:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/n1LWjI.gif


The reason MJ was so much better defending quick ballhandlers like Hill, Kobe or Westbrook is because he was a 2-guard, and was the frequently the primary, all-game defender on quick point guards.

For example, MJ was matched up against Gary Payton from the TIP-OFF in Game 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw&t=0m48s) and Game 5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFiqeJcgXfg) of the NBA Finals and was the main defender throughout the game..

MJ was also the main defender and matched up from the tip-off against Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc&t=0m28s) and Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8).. And we all know he was matched up from tip-off against Magic, when he guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713075&postcount=45) (70%) in the 1991 Finals.

MJ's far greater experience playing quick ballhandling guards and his superior athleticism made him a better perimeter defender than Pippen

[3ball]

. Pippen played in 1999 and won All-Defensive honors.





Pippen's defensive peak was short and he was mostly a garbage defender (see gifs above) - everyone got their regular numbers against or outplayed him - he literally never locked anyone down

The media simply gave him all-defense undeserved in 93' and 97-00', similar to Kobe's numerous undeserved all-defense awards.. the media does that a lot, aka goes with the flow

[Ainosterhaspie]

Let's compare apples to apples - Jordan and Pippen guarding the same player - gifs incoming




Grant Hill bullies Pippen super-easy:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/4UeQlI.gif



Whereas MJ's superior aggressiveness and strength makes Grant Hill work super-hard:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/AXOd7a.gif

LMAO. Pippen is getting screened. Jordan isn't. One is stationary and baseline. The other is with motion. Hill would have gone right in on Jordan but help defender momentarily slowed him. After that defender recovered to his man, Hill went right in with little difficulty. Gee I wonder which if those scenarios is better for the defender. Then you cut off right before the shot is released after Hill got right to the rim on Jordan. Not good anecdotes in support of your position.

[3ball]

LMAO. Pippen is getting screened. Jordan isn't. One is stationary and baseline. The other is with motion. Hill would have gone right in on Jordan but help defender momentarily slowed him. After that defender recovered to his man, Hill went right in with little difficulty. Gee I wonder which if those scenarios is better for the defender. Then you cut off right before the shot is released after Hill got right to the rim on Jordan. Not good anecdotes in support of your position.


everyone got their regular numbers against Pippen in every series or outplayed him - he literally never locked anyone down

See the gifs above of Pippen getting broken on defense - it was standard, especially against good ball-handlers.. Otoh, Jordan locked down guys as a standard.

The reason MJ was so much better defending quick ballhandlers like Hill, Kobe or Westbrook is because he was a 2-guard, and was the frequently the primary, all-game defender on quick point guards.

For example, MJ was matched up against Gary Payton from the TIP-OFF in Game 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw&t=0m48s) and Game 5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFiqeJcgXfg) of the NBA Finals and was the main defender throughout the game..

MJ was also the main defender and matched up from the tip-off against Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc&t=0m28s) and Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8).. And we all know he was matched up from tip-off against Magic, when he guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713075&postcount=45) (70%) in the 1991 Finals.

MJ's far greater experience playing quick ballhandling guards and his superior athleticism made him a better perimeter defender than Pippen

[aceman]

Why would anybody ask 3balls opinion on anything?!

[nayte]

It's pip all day .

[Axe]

Why would anybody ask 3balls opinion on anything?!
To expose his stupidity

[nayte]

To expose his stupidity
3ball is like the LeBron stans. They pick and choose their stats and live and die on them.context is lost on both of them

[8Ball]

3ball is like the LeBron stans. They pick and choose their stats and live and die on them.context is lost on both of them

Difference between Jordan and LeBron stans is that LeBron stans are high IQ and stan the GOAT, which is Bron.

[nayte]

Difference between Jordan and LeBron stans is that LeBron stans are high IQ and stan the GOAT, which is Bron.

And I'm sure 3ball feels the same.idc. you are all the same

[ELITEpower23]

Pippen was third in MVP voting in 1994 and lead the Bulls in 4 out 5 of stats that season plus he was also the Allstar game MVP that season as well


And He was also a lockdown defender throughout the 1990s resulting in 8× NBA All-Defensive First Team for the man and 2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team.


Plus he was throughout the 1990's






3× All-NBA First Team (1994–1996)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1992, 1997)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1993, 1998)

NBA steals leader (1995)

That dagger ended 3ball's argument pretty decisively