I don't think 3ball has actually watched NBA in the 90's

[hateraid]

The way he portrays Pippen and immediately defers to advanced stats shows he has little context when it comes to eye test. I don't believe he's actually watched a singular real time game. If so it's likely through subjective youtube clips. None of what he says would have been relevant or discussed in the 90's, particularly the early parts. He literally said in my other thread Pippen was less valuable than 3 of Barkley's Sixer teammates based on a subjective stat he picked out. How dumb is that?


I admit though, he is very good with numbers and manipulating them. He would make a killer accountant. I wonder if he's free for taxes?

Thoughts?

[Ainosterhaspie]

Entirely plausible hypothesis OP. I'm personally highly suspect of eye test because it can deceive. Have to rely on it and stats to get full picture and when they differ come up with a rational explanation for why they do. But as you suggest, 3ball can't have actually watched an adequate sample size of Pippen's play if he genuinely believes the things he claims.

[hateraid]

Entirely plausible hypothesis OP. I'm personally highly suspect of eye test because it can deceive. Have to rely on it and stats to get full picture and when they differ come up with a rational explanation for why they do. But as you suggest, 3ball can't have actually watched an adequate sample size of Pippen's play if he genuinely believes the things he claims.

Well he is literally debating that Barkley had 3 better options than Pippen in the early 90's based solely on numbers he manipulated. I don't think ANY rational NBA fan who has actually watched early 90's NBA believes that nor would take Hawkins and Gilliam over Pippen.
Furhter more he never acknowledges Pippen's impact as a defender and teammate. Numbers don't translate when Jordan had to be pulled off of Magic when he was being abused by him and Pippen was assigned Magic which changed that series. Or other of Pippen's intangibles. It's all numbers designed to inflate Jordan's legacy (or put down Lebron's)

[3ball]

The way he portrays Pippen and immediately defers to advanced stats shows he has little context when it comes to eye test. I don't believe he's actually watched a singular real time game. If so it's likely through subjective youtube clips. None of what he says would have been relevant or discussed in the 90's, particularly the early parts. He literally said in my other thread Pippen was less valuable than 3 of Barkley's Sixer teammates based on a subjective stat he picked out. How dumb is that?


I admit though, he is very good with numbers and manipulating them. He would make a killer accountant. I wonder if he's free for taxes?

Thoughts?


You're lying or lack reading comp

I said Barkley had 3 teammates that achieved Pippen production in the 90' ECSF, yet still lost because Jordan carried the load with 43/7/7... I was highlighting how Barkley had 3rd and 4th options and Jordan didn't, so Jordan had to carry the load with 43 ppg

[hateraid]

You're lying or lack reading comp

I said Barkley had 3 teammates that achieved Pippen production in the 90' ECSF, yet still lost because Jordan carried the load with 43/7/7... I was highlighting how Barkley had 3rd and 4th options and Jordan didn't, so Jordan had to carry the load with 43 ppg

This is what I mean. This post has no context other than numbers you manipulated. You obviously didn't watch that series if that's what you think

[3ball]

This is what I mean. This post has no context other than numbers you manipulated. You obviously didn't watch that series if that's what you think


Jordan dominated that series more than any player ever dominated any series - it's literally one of his most dominant series and you're saying I'm giving him too much props.. you're the unreasonable one, not me

That's why the Bulls won that series - it was Jordan's unmatched production - everyone else's production was ordinary and easily matched

[ShawkFactory]

This is what I mean. This post has no context other than numbers you manipulated. You obviously didn't watch that series if that's what you think

He doesn't realize that other people have either watched or have the ability to watch all of these games.

[3ball]

He doesn't realize that other people have either watched or have the ability to watch all of these games.


No you guys are just dumb as shit for thinking that a series that someone wins with 43/7/7 is somehow due to someone else

[ShawkFactory]

No you guys are just dumb as shit for thinking that a series that someone wins with 43/7/7 is somehow due to someone else

Nobody said anything close to that.

Whenever someone gives any sort of credit to anyone but Jordan for literally anything at any time you absolutely lose your mind. Someone mentions that Rodman grabs 12 offensive boards? Then Pippen sucked in 1990. Toni Kukoc was crazy efficient in the 1998 playoffs? Pippen was another Detlef Shrempf.

So so so weird.

[SouBeachTalents]

Nobody said anything close to that.

Whenever someone gives any sort of credit to anyone but Jordan for literally anything at any time you absolutely lose your mind. Someone mentions that Rodman grabs 12 offensive boards? Then Pippen sucked in 1990. Toni Kukoc was crazy efficient in the 1998 playoffs? Pippen was another Detlef Shrempf.

So so so weird.
FOH bruh, Jordan was winning those titles 1 on 5

[3ball]

Nobody said anything close to that. Whenever someone gives any sort of credit to anyone but Jordan for literally anything you absolutely lose your mind.

So so so weird.


Carry on praising a guy whose standard series equaled JR Smith's ECF in 2015 (18/8 on 60%).. actually, pippen was never that efficient and never spaced the floor for Jordan like that.

So Jordan won 6 rings with that caliber of offense from his sidekick (peak JR Smith) and inferior team defenses (1st three-peat bulls)

[Manny98]

Pippen would be Jeff Green without MJ, didn't you know :lol

[mehyaM24]

his numbers are always wrong though.

everything that guy posts suggests pippen was crap. and yet pippen routinely finished top 10 in most relevant stat categories. the important ones too like advanced/impact. by his own admission, the 90s were weak lol. that is the only logical conclusion.

[ShawkFactory]

Carry on praising a guy whose standard series equaled JR Smith's ECF in 2015 (18/8 on 60%).. actually, pippen was never that efficient and never spaced the floor for Jordan like that.

So Jordan won 6 rings with that caliber of offense from his sidekick (peak JR Smith) and inferior team defenses (1st three-peat bulls)

Nobody would carry on about anything if you didn't make posts like this. People would just go about their lives believing that Scottie Pippen was a very good basketball player and that Jordan is the GOAT.

Thank you for proving my point :lol

[bison]

Carry on praising a guy whose standard series equaled JR Smith's ECF in 2015 (18/8 on 60%).. actually, pippen was never that efficient and never spaced the floor for Jordan like that.

So Jordan won 6 rings with that caliber of offense from his sidekick (peak JR Smith) and inferior team defenses (1st three-peat bulls)

Lmao you’re still doing the exact thing OP accused you of doing. Zero self awareness.

[hateraid]

No you guys are just dumb as shit for thinking that a series that someone wins with 43/7/7 is somehow due to someone else

Nope. All you've done in that thread is showcase stats, which in that particular case was scoring to validate your posts. When in REALITY nobody would choose Hawkins and Gilliam over Grant and Pippen in that or ANY other situation. That in itself proves you've never watched the NBA in the 90s

[hateraid]

Lmao you’re still doing the exact thing OP accused you of doing. Zero self awareness.

0 self awareness. It's astonishing

He's literally arguing Hawkins and Gilliam are better options than Grant and Pippen and solely using scoring stats as his base argument. No context outside of that whatsoever

[SouBeachTalents]

0 self awareness. It's astonishing

He's literally arguing Hawkins and Gilliam are better options than Grant and Pippen and solely using scoring stats as his base argument. No context outside of that whatsoever
He also tries to equate Pippen with mother fcking JR Smith based off of ONE series :oldlol:

[hateraid]

He also tries to equate Pippen with motha fckin JR Smith based off of ONE series :oldlol:

That's what I mean. Reality is you can equate Pippen to ANY player in the NBA if you dig deep enough into stats with zero context. That's his whole M.O. Now Hersey Hawkins is better than Pippen? Jeez Louise.
I admire his ability to research and manipulate those stats to validate his posts, but I have little confidence he has ever watched these guys play. When you indulge in stats that much you can create any fantasy world you want. I've seen him argue Jordan would be a better WR than Randy Moss. That alone is pure nonsense and no eye test

[3ball]

Lmao you’re still doing the exact thing OP accused you of doing. Zero self awareness.


Bro, Pippen was aids.. accept it.. or be fooled by rachel nichols and her click (journalism majors, aka media)

[hateraid]

Bro, Pippen was aids.. accept it.. or be fooled by rachel nichols and her click (journalism majors, aka media)

Lol, 3ball is triggered now

You're going off script. Pull yourself together

[SouBeachTalents]

Bro, Pippen was aids.. accept it.. or be fooled by rachel nichols and her click (journalism majors, aka media)
Jordan's record without Pippen is aids

[3ball]

Lol, 3ball is triggered now

You're going off script. Pull yourself together


The reason my position will always stand is because Pippen's best performance of his entire career equaled Robert Horry in the 95' Finals (18/10 on 55%).

Or JR Smith in the 15' ECF.

Or Larry Hughes in 2005

TLDR: pippen's standard was a low bar - anyone could reach it... can you believe the goat won 6 chips with a sidekick playing at peak JR Smith level? With inferior team defenses?

These are facts bruh.. accept them and perceive the world correctly

[hateraid]

The reason my position will always stand is because Pippen's best performance of his entire career equaled Robert Horry in the 95' Finals (18/10 on 55%).

Or JR Smith in the 15' ECF.

Or Larry Hughes in 2005

TLDR: pippen's standard was a low bar - anyone could reach it... can you believe the goat won 6 chips with a sidekick playing at peak JR Smith level? With inferior team defenses?

These are facts bruh.. accept them and perceive the world correctly

All this screams is zero context outside of stats. Which is exactly what the OP is about. Facts on paper don't always equal what you see. In which case you have zero experience

[3ball]

All this screams is zero context outside of stats. Which is exactly what the OP is about. Facts on paper don't always equal what you see. In which case you have zero experience


I watched all those games.. heck, I was listening to the bulls on the radio before Pippen entered the league

Pippen simply never dominated - his peak capability was 22 and 5 assists - it was a low bar so everyone reached it and tons exceeded it

[hateraid]

I watched all those games.. heck, I was listening to the bulls on the radio before Pippen entered the league

Pippen simply never dominated - his peak capability was 22 and 5 assists - it was a low bar so everyone reached it and tons exceeded it

Lies. You're strictly a stat checker and no NBA knowledge beyond that. That's the reason you aren't accepted on knowledgable forums

[hateraid]

My whole thread being validated by 3ball who continues to prove my point. Not one person has disagreed with me. Even the resident Chicago mod doesn't align with him. Zero self awareness

[ShawkFactory]

All this screams is zero context outside of stats. Which is exactly what the OP is about. Facts on paper don't always equal what you see. In which case you have zero experience

In 20 years I'll try to convince people that Zach Lavine = Jokic

[3ball]

Lies. You're strictly a stat checker and no NBA knowledge beyond that. That's the reason you aren't accepted on knowledgable forums


Show me where Pippen played anywhere near Worthy's 30 on 62% in the 87' WCF, or X-man's 25/9/4 in that same series

Instead, Pippen only has weak performance by comparison and infact was destroyed by a washed up X-man in 92'

How can a guy be considered great if he never dominated or played on the top level, and infact only played on a weaker level that Horry and JR Smith can reach?

[welfarefan]

HEY OP HOWS YOUR BUISNESS GOING? HOWS YOUR HOME EQUITY GOING? HOWS YOUR WIFE AND KIDS GOING? NICE LIFE YIKES :roll:

[mehyaM24]

pippen finished top 10 in MOST stat categories, and was top 5 in mvp voting twice. if he was "jr smith" then jordan won in a ****ing awful era.

[3ball]

pippen finished top 10 in MOST stat categories, and was top 5 in mvp voting twice. if he was "jr smith" then jordan won in a ****ing awful era.


Pippen never produced at a higher level than 05' Hughes or Horry in the 95' Finals - that was his caliber and there's zero examples of him playing materially better

Otoh, guys like KJ dominated Magic and Hakeem with premium production, or Worthy had a series of 23 on 72% or was #1 option on b2b champs... Kobe dominated Duncan in 02', or Wade dominated the 11' Finals, while AD led the league in playoff scoring... So everyone enjoyed elite 1st options at sidekick except Jordan, who was stuck with a true 2nd option that produced like 05' Hughes, along with inferior team defenses.

So Pippen doesn't compare to Payton, who was a superior scorer, passer, leader, and led teams to various 1 seeds and even the Finals (where he dominated Pippen and only lost because of MJ)

[hateraid]

Show me where Pippen played anywhere near Worthy's 30 on 62% in the 87' WCF, or X-man's 25/9/4 in that same series

Instead, Pippen only has weak performance by comparison and infact was destroyed by a washed up X-man in 92'

How can a guy be considered great if he never dominated or played on the top level, and infact only played on a weaker level that Horry and JR Smith can reach?

Show me a post where you post anything that doesn't have any stat manipulation or resort to statistics
/Thread

[hateraid]

HEY OP HOWS YOUR BUISNESS GOING? HOWS YOUR HOME EQUITY GOING? HOWS YOUR WIFE AND KIDS GOING? NICE LIFE YIKES :roll:

Business is booming. I have plenty of equity. My wife and kids are fine.
I don't get why that's funny. Is smoking crack and living in a motel much more accomplished?

[hateraid]

Pippen never produced at a higher level than 05' Hughes or Horry in the 95' Finals - that was his caliber and there's zero examples of him playing materially better

Otoh, guys like KJ dominated Magic and Hakeem with premium production, or Worthy had a series of 23 on 72% or was #1 option on b2b champs... Kobe dominated Duncan in 02', or Wade dominated the 11' Finals, while AD led the league in playoff scoring... So everyone enjoyed elite 1st options at sidekick except Jordan, who was stuck with a true 2nd option that produced like 05' Hughes, along with inferior team defenses.

So Pippen doesn't compare to Payton, who was a superior scorer, passer, leader, and led teams to various 1 seeds and even the Finals (where he dominated Pippen and only lost because of MJ)

All stats. No context outside of that. Busted

[Ainosterhaspie]

OP: 3ball hasn't actually watched the games, all he knows is stats.

3ball: stats, STATS, STAAAAAATS.

OP: Quod erat demonstrandum.

[mehyaM24]

Pippen never produced at a higher level than 05' Hughes or Horry in the 95' Finals - that was his caliber and there's zero examples of him playing materially better

Otoh, guys like KJ dominated Magic and Hakeem with premium production, or Worthy had a series of 23 on 72% or was #1 option on b2b champs... Kobe dominated Duncan in 02', or Wade dominated the 11' Finals, while AD led the league in playoff scoring... So everyone enjoyed elite 1st options at sidekick except Jordan, who was stuck with a true 2nd option that produced like 05' Hughes, along with inferior team defenses.

So Pippen doesn't compare to Payton, who was a superior scorer, passer, leader, and led teams to various 1 seeds and even the Finals (where he dominated Pippen and only lost because of MJ)

you already posted this in the other thread. neither claim is true though. in pippen's first finals alone, he posted better numbers. played better defense than both of those guys too. comparing pippen to them only laments jordan winning in a poverty era.

during both players primes, payton also produced inferior numbers to pippen. along with that pippen also had more top MVP finishes. the comparison isn't close dude.

[AussieSteve]

3ball can't contextualize stats. Or at least when it is related to Jordan in any way.

For example, in 1990, Barkley took 15 shots a game for his 25ppg. The same year, Jordan took 24 shots a game for his 33ppg.

Barkley's game was predicated on drawing a double in the post, or scoring if the double didn't come. All those doubles created opportunities for his team mates.

Jordan's offensive game was predicated on him being the best iso scorer in the league.

Barkley's game lends itself to team mates getting scoring opportunities. Jordan's game doesn't. Hence Barkley's Philly teammates all achieved career high scoring next to Barkley, while Jordan's team mates scored more when Jordan wasn't there.

[Kings2024Champs]

Well he is in finance out in vegas so hes good manipulating/working with numbers.

[Full Court]

I think Pippen was a much better player than 3ball give him credit for being. That aside, anyone who says Lebron James is the GOAT never actually watched Jordan play.

[Axe]

HEY OP HOWS YOUR BUISNESS GOING? HOWS YOUR HOME EQUITY GOING? HOWS YOUR WIFE AND KIDS GOING? NICE LIFE YIKES :roll:
:lol

[Axe]

I know op has only been posting in the otc mostly but now, he's trying to make some noise in the main forum on baldan stans that he hates.

[3ball]

3ball can't contextualize stats. Or at least when it is related to Jordan in any way.

For example, in 1990, Barkley took 15 shots a game for his 25ppg. The same year, Jordan took 24 shots a game for his 33ppg.

Barkley's game was predicated on drawing a double in the post, or scoring if the double didn't come. All those doubles created opportunities for his team mates.

Jordan's offensive game was predicated on him being the best iso scorer in the league.

Barkley's game lends itself to team mates getting scoring opportunities. Jordan's game doesn't. Hence Barkley's Philly teammates all achieved career high scoring next to Barkley, while Jordan's team mates scored more when Jordan wasn't there.


JR Smith averaged 18/8 on 66% true shooting while providing amazing spacing/driving lanes in the 15' ECF


WHEN DID PIPPEN PLAY MATERIALLY BETTER THAN THIS

that's the point about pippen - his caliber of play was achieved by..... everyone... even JR... it's a low bar, which makes him incredibly overrated.. he never played anywhere near top 30 caliber

[SATAN]

I think Pippen was a much better player than 3ball give him credit for being. That aside, anyone who says Lebron James is the GOAT never actually watched Jordan play.

I did and I have no problem with people saying LeBron is the goat. They have completely different styles and are/were both brilliant. It's not a big deal.

[And1AllDay]

He doesn't realize that other people have either watched or have the ability to watch all of these games.

:oldlol::roll:

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/15ZxGtnd/DaddyPipCarriesMJ.png

[SouBeachTalents]

https://i.postimg.cc/15ZxGtnd/DaddyPipCarriesMJ.png
JR Smith >

[AussieSteve]

JR Smith averaged 18/8 on 66% true shooting while providing amazing spacing/driving lanes in the 15' ECF


WHEN DID PIPPEN PLAY MATERIALLY BETTER THAN THIS

that's the point about pippen - his caliber of play was achieved by..... everyone... even JR... it's a low bar, which makes him incredibly overrated.. he never played anywhere near top 30 caliber

3 things.

1. You're an idiot.

2. JR was a spot up shooter who got hot for a series. Happens from time to time. Pippen was a complete all round player. The fact that I even have to comment on a JR Smith vs Pippen comparison is quite ridiculous.

3. When did Pippen ever have someone like LeBron on his team giving him the kind of looks that JR got? Pippen was the guy creating those looks for his team mates!!

[LAL]

This is just another 'we bronsexuals demand more respect for pippen' thread, lol gtfoh.


Atleast 3ball gives you all the stats, info and facts about why he came to a certain conclussion.

[LAL]

But still a street dickriding snowflake when he talks about real issues :cheers:

[Axe]

This is just another 'we bronsexuals demand more respect for pippen' thread, lol gtfoh.


Atleast 3ball gives you all the stats, info and facts about why he came to a certain conclussion.
Are you sure op is a bran stan?

[hateraid]

Are you sure op is a bran stan?

Obsessed Jordan stans always come to that conclusion

[ShawkFactory]

3 things.

1. You're an idiot.

2. JR was a spot up shooter who got hot for a series. Happens from time to time. Pippen was a complete all round player. The fact that I even have to comment on a JR Smith vs Pippen comparison is quite ridiculous.

3. When did Pippen ever have someone like LeBron on his team giving him the kind of looks that JR got? Pippen was the guy creating those looks for his team mates!!

Not only all 3 of these things...but he's arguing that JR added spacing for the Cavs in that series based solely on points and shooting percentage :lol

He doesn't know whether or not the entire defense was collapsing on Lebron/Kyrie (in game 1), leaving him open. Doesn't know that the Hawks wanted JR to have to beat them instead of those guys. Doesn't know that his numbers in the series are skewed by one game where he went 8-12 from three, 6 of which were open shots assisted by Lebron and Kyrie.

No context. No ground to stand on.

And he'll just ignore all of this and continue comparing Pippen to JR next week and bank on people not wanting to have to keep repeating themselves...and will thus take that as a win.

Keep fighting that good fight.

[hateraid]

Not only all 3 of these things...but he's arguing that JR added spacing for the Cavs in that series based solely on points and shooting percentage :lol

He doesn't know whether or not the entire defense was collapsing on Lebron/Kyrie (in game 1), leaving him open. Doesn't know that the Hawks wanted JR to have to beat them instead of those guys. Doesn't know that his numbers in the series are skewed by one game where he went 8-12 from three, 6 of which were open shots assisted by Lebron and Kyrie.

No context. No ground to stand on.

And he'll just ignore all of this and continue comparing Pippen to JR next week and bank on people not wanting to have to keep repeating themselves...and will thus take that as a win.

Keep fighting that good fight.

It's bizarre how you can diffuse his stats with actual context yet he'll keep parroting the same response over and over. It's almost as if he has never seem live action basketball. He's the ultimate whatifsports. All simulated, not played out live. Which proves the whole context of my thread.

[ShawkFactory]

It's bizarre how you can diffuse his stats with actual context yet he'll keep parroting the same response over and over. It's almost as if he has never seem live action basketball. He's the ultimate whatifsports. All simulated, not played out live. Which proves the whole context of my thread.

Tim Duncan in the 2005 playoffs: 24.9 PER, .191 WS/48, 5.5 BPM, 53TS%, 20/11

Elton Brand 2006 playoffs: 26.4 PER, .227 WS/48, 7.2 BPM, 59TS%, 25/10

Are we SURE that Tim Duncan was a better player than Elton Brand?

[SouBeachTalents]

Not only all 3 of these things...but he's arguing that JR added spacing for the Cavs in that series based solely on points and shooting percentage :lol

He doesn't know whether or not the entire defense was collapsing on Lebron/Kyrie (in game 1), leaving him open. Doesn't know that the Hawks wanted JR to have to beat them instead of those guys. Doesn't know that his numbers in the series are skewed by one game where he went 8-12 from three, 6 of which were open shots assisted by Lebron and Kyrie.

No context. No ground to stand on.

And he'll just ignore all of this and continue comparing Pippen to JR next week and bank on people not wanting to have to keep repeating themselves...and will thus take that as a win.

Keep fighting that good fight.
The funniest thing about 3bal is he'll use strictly numbers, specifically ppg & shooting percentage, to determine who the better player is. Yet he has LeBron ranked outside the top 10 when by using that same "method" it would show he's better than virtually everyone in the top 10 outside Jordan. So there's absolutely no consistency to his arguments, Pippen is considered JR Smith level due to stats, yet LeBron is worse than Kobe, Bird, Magic, Duncan etc. despite far superior numbers

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He definitely wasn't watching then. :lol 3ball is a Kobe now reformed MJ "stan" whose sole purpose is bringing Bron down a peg.

Forgot who I had the same conversation with, maybe it was RR or Blaze. But we agreed that when talking to 3ball everything comes down to scoring numbers. Defense and actually breaking down skill is background noise.

[hateraid]

Tim Duncan in the 2005 playoffs: 24.9 PER, .191 WS/48, 5.5 BPM, 53TS%, 20/11

Elton Brand 2006 playoffs: 26.4 PER, .227 WS/48, 7.2 BPM, 59TS%, 25/10

Are we SURE that Tim Duncan was a better player than Elton Brand?

Well according to "math" Brand FTW :lol

[hateraid]

He definitely wasn't watching then. :lol 3ball is a Kobe now reformed MJ "stan" whose sole purpose is bringing Bron down a peg.

Forgot who I had the same conversation with, maybe it was RR or Blaze. But we agreed that when talking to 3ball everything comes down to scoring numbers. Defense and actually breaking down skill is background noise.

The thing is 3ball is actually very good at it. If he had an occupation as an accountant I would hire him in a second. If he was a lawyer I'd get the death penalty on tax evasion lol.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Not only all 3 of these things...but he's arguing that JR added spacing for the Cavs in that series based solely on points and shooting percentage :lol

He doesn't know whether or not the entire defense was collapsing on Lebron/Kyrie (in game 1), leaving him open. Doesn't know that the Hawks wanted JR to have to beat them instead of those guys. Doesn't know that his numbers in the series are skewed by one game where he went 8-12 from three, 6 of which were open shots assisted by Lebron and Kyrie.

No context. No ground to stand on.

And he'll just ignore all of this and continue comparing Pippen to JR next week and bank on people not wanting to have to keep repeating themselves...and will thus take that as a win.

Keep fighting that good fight.

JR always had potential for being a great scorer. His problem is lack of consistency and not being too bright. He could flash greatness a game here and a game there and even in a series from time to time. The reason Pippen is far above JR in all time terms is that he was far more consistent, a much smarter player and a vastly superior defender. Put that all together and he's the superior player, and it's not close.

Anomalous series here and there by role players doesn't elevate them to his level. Most of these guys wouldn't be pros if they hadn't flashed that sort of potential. But 3ball takes the Pippen anomalies (his bad games and series) and tries to treat them as Pippens norms, and takes LeBron's mediocre teammates' anomalies (their great games, series or seasons) and frames them as the norm. Turns reality on its head, but then that's the point of cherry picking one of his favorite pasttimes.

[Axe]

3ball lurks on his trada7029 dup when he's banned on his main

[3ball]

1. You're an idiot.





I'm a smart person for not falling for the erroneous narratives the media selects and tries to shove down my throat.

You're the lame that believes this WWE shit is real





2. JR was a spot up shooter who got hot for a series. Happens from time to time.





18 ppg isn't getting "hot"

It's just pippen-caliber

And it's an oxymoron to say someone got hot.... for a whole series.. do you see why that makes no sense?






Pippen was a complete all round player.





He couldn't shoot... he frequently couldn't score.. and he couldn't carry an offense or produce in the clutch.

he was a 5 assist guy without Mike, so he was an average passer, maybe slightly above average.

So stop lying and lionizing a glue guy role player

His peak was 6-10 points below elite 1st options like Curry, Kobe, Wade, etc - so Jordan was stuck with a true 2nd option, while everyone else needed elite 1st option sidekicks to match their playoff scoring for most of their rings (1b's).






3. When did Pippen ever have someone like LeBron on his team giving him the kind of looks that JR got?

Pippen was the guy creating those looks for his team mates!!





^^^ you have a lot of misperceptions that need correcting:


1) Pippen was never a good shooter like JR and wouldn't be good as a spot-up shooter - he would disappoint in that role and you'd be complaining how bad he was alongside Lebron, just like you thought Ingram was bad until he got away from lebron and that role.

Ultimately, Lebron's skill restriction to ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning).. Talent-based winning loses to organic ball movement, so lebron has a lottery record against the Spurs, Mavs and Warriors.


2) Jordan averaged 30/9/11 and was called the NBA's best point guard in Year 5, whereas lebron wasn't called that until Year 17 and never achieved comparable raw stats until the "curry" spacing era allowed everyone to get those numbers... Btw, Pippen could never play PG like Jordan did and therefore is nowhere near the caliber of passer that Jordan was - Jordan averaged more assists than Pippen despite doubling his scoring and getting more DPOY votes every year..


3) Jordan can't assist on his own shots (and his volume was much higher than Pippen's), so his assist PERCENTAGE was much higher, aka Jordan assisted 33% more often than pippen in the playoffs, while doubling his scoring average - ultimately, JORDAN ran the offense and literally everything ran through him..

So he always assisted more often and led the Bulls in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside pippen - this includes the 97' Playoffs, but Pippen was busy bricking and averaging 19/7/3 on 42% including the Finals (17 on 41% for entire 96-98' Playoffs)


4) In addition to distributing assists, Jordan created assists for teammates by being a goat assist TARGET (off-ball).. So Jordan created the most assists overall by distributing and being a goat assist target (creating assists for teammates).. Indeed, teammates like Pippen saw their highest assists alongside an off-ball target like Jordan, while teammates saw their assists crater alongside a ball-dominator like Lebron.. Lower teammate assists results in low TEAM assists and lower team ceiling (4/10)..

5) The common thread in Lebron's last 4 Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists - he fields low-assist teams and isn't capable of #1 offenses in 2 decades of playing - why would Pippen prefer that?... So Pippen had a better distributor than lebron because he had a goat ball movement system, goat team offense, and much higher team assists - that's better than a ball-dominator dribbling and getting an assist (skipping ball movement) and having lesser team offense...

[8Ball]

Jordan was 1-9 without Pippen.

End of story.

[3ball]

Jordan was 1-9 without Pippen.

End of story.


That was his first few seasons where everyone loses or is lottery like Giannis, Lebron, Curry, Kyrie, and many more.

Ultimately, Jordan only needed a lottery cast and 8 ppg bum rookie to make the 2nd Round.

Otoh, Lebron needed the East all-star center, a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY to make the 06' Playoffs.... that's a ridiculous amount of hep just to make the playoffs, and he needed to steal Arenas' sidekick to make the 2nd Round.

[hateraid]

That was his first few seasons where everyone loses or is lottery like Giannis, Lebron, Curry, Kyrie, and many more.

Ultimately, Jordan only needed a lottery cast and 8 ppg bum rookie to make the 2nd Round.

Otoh, Lebron needed the East all-star center, a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY to make the 06' Playoffs.... that's a ridiculous amount of hep just to make the playoffs, and he needed to steal Arenas' sidekick to make the 2nd Round.

Spoken like a guy whose never watched the NBA in the 90s.

[ShawkFactory]

Spoken like a guy whose never watched the NBA in the 90s.

You know this dude is pulling from the bottom of the well when he starts mentioning coaches :lol

[8Ball]

That was his first few seasons where everyone loses or is lottery like Giannis, Lebron, Curry, Kyrie, and many more.

Ultimately, Jordan only needed a lottery cast and 8 ppg bum rookie to make the 2nd Round.

Otoh, Lebron needed the East all-star center, a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY to make the 06' Playoffs.... that's a ridiculous amount of hep just to make the playoffs, and he needed to steal Arenas' sidekick to make the 2nd Round.

1-9

Pippen has won 55 games and 59 games without Jordan.

Jordan can't even hit .500 without Pippen.

Carry on.

[hateraid]

You know this dude is pulling from the bottom of the well when he starts mentioning coaches :lol

This guy reaches far too much. He has zero credibility

[AirBonner]

Only 3ball can make MJ’s career look bad. It’s remarkable

[dankok8]

1-9

Pippen has won 55 games and 59 games without Jordan.

Jordan can't even hit .500 without Pippen.

Carry on.

Actually from 1990 to 1998, the Bulls went 32-12 with Jordan and without Pippen which is 60-win pace.

[SouBeachTalents]

You know this dude is pulling from the bottom of the well when he starts mentioning coaches :lol
And when it's Mike Brown, the guy who got fired 3 times in 5 seasons :lol