Why do Jordan leave after the 6th ring?

[hateraid]

According to 3ball he had a weak cast that could have been replaced with players the level of Hersey Hawkins, Zadrunas Ilgaskus, and Larry Hughes.
When the useless Pippen, over the hill Rodman, and, non-factor coach Jackson decided to move on surely Jordan could have picked up the slack with any bum. Why did he retire? Very suspect if you ask me.

[2much_knowledge]

According to 3ball he had a weak cast that could have been replaced with players the level of Hersey Hawkins, Zadrunas Ilgaskus, and Larry Hughes.
When the useless Pippen, over the hill Rodman, and, non-factor coach Jackson decided to move on surely Jordan could have picked up the slack with any bum. Why did he retire? Very suspect if you ask me.

Just get off this forum and go watch the last dance. Its on netflix

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

MJ was exhausted from his all-time carry jobs. And 6 carry jobs = by far the most in NBA history. You know that'll be geekballs angle :lol

My favorite one is Jordan "making" Pippen. Apparently Mike was such a genius he couldn't make more of them in Washington.

[hateraid]

Just get off this forum and go watch the last dance. Its on netflix

Truth was slighted. Even Karl Malone didn't want to be in it because it was scripted to boost Jordan's ego.

[Kiddlovesnets]

What a trolling attempt, OP is desperate and he says hes objective.
:lol

[2much_knowledge]

What a trolling attempt, OP is desperate and he says hes objective.
:lol

My post triggered him instantly lol

[2much_knowledge]

Truth was slighted. Even Karl Malone didn't want to be in it because it was scripted to boost Jordan's ego.

Still you can learn more there than reading 70% of these fools biased worthless opinions. Give it a try ;)

[Kiddlovesnets]

My post triggered him instantly lol

Its okay to troll and ISH is known to have quite a few of dedicated trolls, but come on this guy disguises himself as if hes a serious and educated poster, and then he made a thread like this one. What a hypocrite.
:lol

[hateraid]

MJ was exhausted from his all-time carry jobs. And 6 carry jobs = by far the most in NBA history. You know that'll be geekballs angle :lol

My favorite one is Jordan "making" Pippen. Apparently Mike was such a genius he couldn't make more of them in Washington.

He had euro Pippen Kukoc, still there. Surely Jordan who made Pippen who he was could have made Kukoc into a 2 way machine. He was already better offensively than Pippen. Jordan didn't need a coach so Tim Floyd was more than adequate. When Jordan retired the first time surely that 55 win team was a fluke. They were just scrubs. The 98-99 team was just as equally talented

[hateraid]

What a trolling attempt, OP is desperate and he says hes objective.
:lol

I'm objectively asking a question. Please answer it Mr.Expert. Or were you too far up Jordan's ass you missed out on my Sixers spanking your Nets? I find it funny you're so obsessed with Jordan you're missing out on what's happening around you lolol

[Hey Yo]

Has there ever been a superstar who wins league MVP and FMVP in the same season, then quits the league? Not only once, but twice????

[hateraid]

Still you can learn more there than reading 70% of these fools biased worthless opinions. Give it a try ;)

Like reading the worthless shit kiddlovesnets posts on the daily? No thanks. Speaking of which, he's right on cue being triggered by anything even questioning Jordan. Lol

[Kiddlovesnets]

I find it funny you're so obsessed with Jordan you're missing out on what's happening around you lolol

So you see? You are trolling, and you say you are objective, you are such a joker and I am amused. The other stans like scuzzy and 8ball at least never pretended as if they were serious posters, they are trolls and they talk like trolls. You are a hypocrite, you need to see a doctor man.

[hateraid]

Its okay to troll and ISH is known to have quite a few of dedicated trolls, but come on this guy disguises himself as if hes a serious and educated poster, and then he made a thread like this one. What a hypocrite.
:lol

It's a question. You're the Jordan expert. Answer it. I'll listen objectively.

[Kiddlovesnets]

It's a question. You're the Jordan expert. Answer it. I'll listen objectively.

Its impossible to reason with trolls, and this is your shit thread so I wont bother. Read my own thread if you want to broaden your knowledge on why theres no GOAT case at all, and why MJ is miles ahead:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?491445-Season-by-Season-analysis-MJ-vs-Lebron-on-pre-season-odds-amp-finishes

[tontoz]

According to 3ball he had a weak cast that could have been replaced with players the level of Hersey Hawkins, Zadrunas Ilgaskus, and Larry Hughes.
When the useless Pippen, over the hill Rodman, and, non-factor coach Jackson decided to move on surely Jordan could have picked up the slack with any bum. Why did he retire? Very suspect if you ask me.

I realize you are trolling here but Krause was on the record saying Jackson was a goner and Jordan was on record saying he wouldn't play without Jackson. It wasnt about the rest of the roster.

[hateraid]

So you see? You are trolling, and you say you are objective, you are such a joker and I am amused. The other stans like scuzzy and 8ball at least never pretended as if they were serious posters, they are trolls and they talk like trolls. You are a hypocrite, you need to see a doctor man.

Answer the question then. I'll listen objectively. The question is based on your exact sentiments. I never made anything up. It's things quoted directly from you and 3ball. So in reality it's not trolling, it's having your take thrown back in your court. I'm asking for answers. If you think I'm trolling then stop posting your nonsense so I have nothing to reference.

[hateraid]

I realize you are trolling here but Krause was on the record saying Jackson was a goner and Jordan was on record saying he wouldn't play without Jackson. It wasnt about the rest of the roster.

Still relevant to my question. Posters here claim Jordan didn't need Jackson.

I'm actually not trolling. I'm legitimately referencing statements made by the Jordan experts. I'm just putting it in context for them

[2much_knowledge]

Has there ever been a superstar who wins league MVP and FMVP in the same season, then quits the league? Not only once, but twice????

His dad was killed and he got bored and realized he was the best already. The other one keeps chasing the ghost.
And i quote.... " Im chasing that ghost man" his words not mine. Take 28 seasons if you need them lol

[hateraid]

Its impossible to reason with trolls, and this is your shit thread so I wont bother. Read my own thread if you want to broaden your knowledge on why theres no GOAT case at all, and why MJ is miles ahead:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?491445-Season-by-Season-analysis-MJ-vs-Lebron-on-pre-season-odds-amp-finishes

If you're chart had any merit then Jordan could have lead that 98-99 team to the same success. Sorry but it discredits him even more

Funny how I take kiddlovesnets exact sentiments and put it in context and he calls it trolling. Lolol. Ironic.

[mehyaM24]

op using jordan fans OWN arguments against them. :oldlol: 2 pages in and they're already bending backwards lol

[hateraid]

His dad was killed and he got bored and realized he was the best already. The other one keeps chasing the ghost.
And i quote.... " Im chasing that ghost man" his words not mine. Take 28 seasons if you need them lol

Speaking of triggered, care to answer why you use an alt created in 2014 with 400 posts to reply to this thread? Lol. Now THAT'S being triggered.

[hateraid]

op using jordan fans own arguments against them. :oldlol: 2 pages in and they're already bending backwards lol

Lol, and they're to stupid to realize this is their own words.
Funny how when it's contextualize it's now "trolling"
:roll:

[hateraid]

Just so I'm ahead of 3ball I'll add this for more context

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 defense.. lottery
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 defense.. nearly won title

[2much_knowledge]

Speaking of triggered, care to answer why you use an alt created in 2014 with 400 posts to reply to this thread? Lol. Now THAT'S being triggered.

There is no alt. I been trying to get to this forum for years and it never let me post. I even wrote an email to management. I would check every couple of years if anything changed and nope. It wasn't until this year that they upgraded my privileges and allowed me to post.

[hateraid]

There is no alt. I been trying to get to this forum for years and it never let me post. I even wrote an email to management. I would check every couple of years if anything changed and nope. It wasn't until this year that they upgraded my privileges and allowed me to post.

Suuuure :roll:

[Hey Yo]

His dad was killed and he got bored and realized he was the best already. The other one keeps chasing the ghost.
And i quote.... " Im chasing that ghost man" his words not mine. Take 28 seasons if you need them lol

There was talk between the 2 about quitting the league even before the season was over. The documentary confirms that. Plus confirms that MJ was mentally exhausted at the time. He quit doing interviews cause he was pouting about people questioning his gambling.

Then quit again citing mental exhaustion again

The MVP and FMVP quit cause no Phil, Scottie or Dennis to be found in 1999. The most alleged fierce competitor in sports quit twice due to the need to load manage.

[2much_knowledge]

Suuuure :roll:

I can't even see the threads i start. Can't post pictures or videos. This is what i get

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2much_knowledge, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

[hateraid]

There was talk between the 2 about quitting the league even before the season was over. The documentary confirms that. Plus confirms that MJ was mentally exhausted at the time. He quit doing interviews cause he was pouting about people questioning his gambling.

Then quit again citing mental exhaustion again

The MVP and FMVP quit cause no Phil, Scottie or Dennis to be found in 1999. The most alleged fierce competitor in sports quit twice due to the need to load manage.

If he was the competitor people say he is and he had a weak cast, surely he could have overcome mental exhaustion. It's not like nobody ever criticizes Lebron in the media. Guys like Barkley and Shaq constantly throw him love!

[2much_knowledge]

There was talk between the 2 about quitting the league even before the season was over. The documentary confirms that. Plus confirms that MJ was mentally exhausted at the time. He quit doing interviews cause he was pouting about people questioning his gambling.

Then quit again citing mental exhaustion again

The MVP and FMVP quit cause no Phil, Scottie or Dennis to be found in 1999. The most alleged fierce competitor in sports quit twice due to the need to load manage.

He accomplished way more while retiring twice in his prime. No need to play 25 seasons to ghost chase or pad stats. You should wake up every day and thank God he did. Its a massacre already, imagine the gap if he never retired. Be thankful

[mehyaM24]

He accomplished way more while retiring twice in his prime. No need to play 25 seasons to ghost chase or pad stats. You should wake up every day and thank God he did. Its a massacre already, imagine the gap if he never retired. Be thankful

having better longevity isn't a bad thing. don't know why you're arguing that it is. lebron being elite at 36 while jordan retired at 35 is a plus for lebron - not a negative.

[Hey Yo]

He accomplished way more while retiring twice in his prime. No need to play 25 seasons to ghost chase or pad stats. You should wake up every day and thank God he did. Its a massacre already, imagine the gap if he never retired. Be thankful
Load management was the reason for accomplishing rings 4-6. How is that more impressive than a player who doesnt need to sit out almost 2 full seasons in order to still be competitive?

[hateraid]

He accomplished way more while retiring twice in his prime. No need to play 25 seasons to ghost chase or pad stats. You should wake up every day and thank God he did. Its a massacre already, imagine the gap if he never retired. Be thankful

Seriously speaking that is an excellent sentiment. But realistically speaking in the competitive world of sports that's just mental weakness. Everyone has demons. He is not exempt

[2much_knowledge]

Load management was the reason for accomplishing rings 4-6. How is that more impressive than a player who doesnt need to sit out almost 2 full seasons in order to still be competitive?

When you accomplish way more in less time, with less help, same team. It is more impressive you fool.

[8Ball]

According to 3ball he had a weak cast that could have been replaced with players the level of Hersey Hawkins, Zadrunas Ilgaskus, and Larry Hughes.
When the useless Pippen, over the hill Rodman, and, non-factor coach Jackson decided to move on surely Jordan could have picked up the slack with any bum. Why did he retire? Very suspect if you ask me.

1) Mental fatigue.

2) Didn't have a 55 win team to carry him anymore.

3) Didn't have a guts to join a garbage team like 2014 cavs or 2018 lakers to rebuild.

4) Not talented enough like LeBron to join any team and rebuild it.

[2much_knowledge]

having better longevity isn't a bad thing. don't know why you're arguing that it is. lebron being elite at 36 while jordan retired at 35 is a plus for lebron - not a negative.

Im not saying it isn't. Its a good thing. Thats why Kareem and Lebron are consensus 2 and 3. That being said, its not like MJ did not have great longevity also. People don't realize he was averaging 25 - 5 - 5 in Washington before getting injured

[8Ball]

op using jordan fans OWN arguments against them. :oldlol: 2 pages in and they're already bending backwards lol

They are having a meltdown right now over 1 paragraph from hateraid. :roll:

[hateraid]

Mental fatigue.

Didn't have a 55 win team to carry him anymore.

Didn't have a guts to join a garbage team like 2014 cavs or 2018 lakers to rebuild.

Nonsense, according to 3ball that 55 win team was run by a hack no better than Larry Hughes. He had Kukoc in 99. The Euro Pippen.

And where is this mental fatigue coming from? Surely a guy who gambles, smokes cigars, and golfs in his spare time collecting millions from Nike and Gatorade should have no mental fatigue

[hateraid]

They are having a meltdown right now over 1 paragraph from hateraid. :roll:

Stop it! I'm just putting things 3ball and kiddlovesnets posts into cliff notes and throwing the question back

[2much_knowledge]

They are having a meltdown right now over 1 paragraph from hateraid. :roll:

My eyes melt from watching your post. Your account it based on a 3ball parody but at least he bothers to back up his outlandish claims, right or wrong, with detailed stats

You just post garbage biased opinions and act like some hotshot smart poster lol. The audacity

Edit. See below. Exhibit A

[8Ball]

Jordan isn't good enough to rebuild a team on his own and he knew his legacy would be impacted if he stayed, so he quit instead.

Jordan knew what he was losing in Pippen and Phil Jackson and couldn't fathom playing basketball without them.

He needs someone to run the offence and he needs an elite coach to build everything around him.

[8Ball]

My eyes melt from watching your post. Your account it based on a 3ball parody but at least he bothers to back up his outlandish claims, right or wrong, with detailed stats

You just post garbage biased opinions and act like some hotshot smart poster lol. The audacity

Parody? What parody?

8ball is either a black pool ball or a large amount of cocaine. I have nothing to do with 3ball except take a daily shit on him.

[KirbyPls]

Has there ever been a superstar who wins league MVP and FMVP in the same season, then quits the league? Not only once, but twice????

But, but, it was too mentally taxing...:lol

[8Ball]

Stop it! I'm just putting things 3ball and kiddlovesnets posts into cliff notes and throwing the question back

but but but, what about the pre-seasons odds!?!? :roll:

[hateraid]

My eyes melt from watching your post. Your account it based on a 3ball parody but at least he bothers to back up his outlandish claims, right or wrong, with detailed stats

You just post garbage biased opinions and act like some hotshot smart poster lol. The audacity

3ball in itself is a parody. You just follow the same agenda so you agree with him. 8ball counters that parody with parody. And nothing he says is off base at all. He just posts it in a manner to simplify it but 3ball is just to close minded to receive it.

This is what I mean, the Lebron stans are a product of the lunatic Jordan stans. Eliminate guys like 3ball and kiddlovesnets and you'll find these posters more rational. Outside of the Jordan topics these posters are full of charisma. The same can't be said about 3ball and kiddlovesnets. Even the hardcore Bulls fans can't stand them

[mehyaM24]

Im not saying it isn't. Its a good thing. Thats why Kareem and Lebron are consensus 2 and 3. That being said, its not like MJ did not have great longevity also. People don't realize he was averaging 25 - 5 - 5 in Washington before getting injured

injuries are part of the game though. lebron got injured in 2019 and bounced back - and will likely do the same now once he returns. jordan had good longevity, sure, but lebron and kareem have GREAT longevity. no retirements. no breaks and elite play throughout. jordan was simply too inefficient in washington. his teammates didn't like him either as per stackhouse/brossuard.

[8Ball]

3ball admits himself he spends his time just trolling LeBron because he has nothing better else to do. At least he admits it. It is entertainment for him like some other adults plays video games.

Any other Jordan stan following 3ball's footsteps is like following a donkey into a slaughter house of stupidity.

[8Ball]

Im not saying it isn't. Its a good thing. Thats why Kareem and Lebron are consensus 2 and 3. That being said, its not like MJ did not have great longevity also. People don't realize he was averaging 25 - 5 - 5 in Washington before getting injured

I'm okay with you saying LeBron is #2. No problem with that.

[2much_knowledge]

injuries are part of the game though. lebron got injured in 2019 and bounced back - and will likely do the same now once he returns. jordan had good longevity, sure, but lebron and kareem have GREAT longevity. no retirements. no breaks and elite play throughout. jordan was simply too inefficient in washington. his teammates didn't like him either as per stackhouse/brossuard.

Stackhouse don't have a say in this matter. Its embarrassing enough that Washington was #2 in the East with a puppy Hamilton who by the way, missed weeks with a groin injury. While Stackhouse was in his peak and couldn't do shit.

So you are implying Bird, Hill, Tracy and Kobe were less quality players cause they happened to get injured more seriously? Don't compare that injury lebron had to the others.

[hateraid]

Jordan isn't good enough to rebuild a team on his own and he knew his legacy would be impacted if he stayed, so he quit instead.

Jordan knew what he was losing in Pippen and Phil Jackson and couldn't fathom playing basketball without them.

He needs someone to run the offence and he needs an elite coach to build everything around him.

Notice Jordan stan edits posts to say exhibit A.
Yet this post does have merit. Unfortunately Jordan stans don't see any flaw in Jordan so this is quick to dismiss.

[mehyaM24]

Stackhouse don't have a say in this matter. Its embarrassing enough that Washington was #2 in the East with a puppy Hamilton who by the way, missed weeks with a groin injury. While Stackhouse was in his peak and couldn't do shit.

we often hear jordan made pippen in chicago. so why couldn't he do it in washington? :confusedshrug:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leCdpGaVmQo&ab_channel=FoxSportsRadio

stackhouse exposed jordan for being selfish. broussard, who covered the team, simply corroborated that.

[2much_knowledge]

I'm okay with you saying LeBron is #2. No problem with that.

Career wise and when he retires. I still feel Bird with a perfect back, Magic with no aids and no Achilles Kobe based on the path and paste they were going, were in a good position to claim #2 all time

[8Ball]

Career wise and when he retires. I still feel Bird with a perfect back, Magic with no aids and no Achilles Kobe based on the path and paste they were going, were in a good position to claim #2 all time

Bird was better than Magic in my opinion. Magic is great but he wasn't a triple threat scorer like Bird was. Bird can score in the post, mid range, 3 point shooting, free throw shooting, great Manu like passing.

I agree if Larry Bird had competent trainer his whole career Bird may have been top 2-3 all time. Larry Bird's offensive basketball game was complete.

[hateraid]

Career wise and when he retires. I still feel Bird with a perfect back, Magic with no aids and no Achilles Kobe based on the path and paste they were going, were in a good position to claim #2 all time

Magic has a case for GOAT. Based on impact, eye test and strength of competition.

But in the end I don't disagree when people claim Jordan as GOAT, I disagree when people say definitively nobody else can be

[2much_knowledge]

we often hear jordan made pippen in chicago. so why couldn't he do it in washington? :confusedshrug:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leCdpGaVmQo&ab_channel=FoxSportsRadio

stackhouse exposed jordan for being selfish. broussard, who covered the team, simply corroborated that.

He was doing it in Washington before his own teammate fell and landed full weight on his knee. Never the same after that day. Stackhouse unfortunately didn't get to play with a healthy Mj

[2much_knowledge]

Magic has a case for GOAT. Based on impact, eye test and strength of competition.

But in the end I don't disagree when people claim Jordan as GOAT, I disagree when people say definitively nobody else can be

Somebody else CAN be. And i hope that player arrives and i get to witness it

But a player who is 2 rings, 2 finals mvps, 1 mvp, 1 dpoy, 2 three peats, 9 scoring tittles, 3 steals tittles short and played with 4 extra allstar teammates in their prime, he can't be it. As simple as that

[2much_knowledge]

Magic has a case for GOAT. Based on impact, eye test and strength of competition.

But in the end I don't disagree when people claim Jordan as GOAT, I disagree when people say definitively nobody else can be

Lets cut all the b.s and back and forth. You know my criteria is. Plain and simple. He did more than anyone, in less playing time and with less help than others

I wanna hear your logical case for lebron. Despite being behind in all the things i mentioned and playing with tons of multiple allstars. I wanna hear you out. Won't refute anymore, straight up

[hateraid]

Somebody else CAN be. And i hope that player arrives and i get to witness it

But a player who is 2 rings, 2 finals mvps, 1 mvp, 1 dpoy, 2 three peats, 9 scoring tittles, 3 steals tittles short and played with 4 extra allstar teammates in their prime, he can't be it. As simple as that

You're going back to being narrow minded. Sports is subjective but never definitive. you're making a definitive statement. And I don't jive with it.

Funny, I was beginning to think you were the rare reasonable Jordan fan. I guess not.

[hateraid]

He was doing it in Washington before his own teammate fell and landed full weight on his knee. Never the same after that day. Stackhouse unfortunately didn't get to play with a healthy Mj

You don't need to be healthy to be a mentor. It was Jordan's PERSONALITY that Stackhouse is criticizing. Quit trying to twist the stary

[ImKobe]

Because the Bulls were moving on from Phil & Scottie? He had nothing left to prove, he was and still is the universal GOAT.


3ball admits himself he spends his time just trolling LeBron because he has nothing better else to do. At least he admits it. It is entertainment for him like some other adults plays video games.

Any other Jordan stan following 3ball's footsteps is like following a donkey into a slaughter house of stupidity.

Damn, I come back here and 3Ball has stans dedicating accounts to him now? Rent free.

[hateraid]

Because the Bulls were moving on from Phil & Scottie? He had nothing left to prove, he was and still is the universal GOAT.



Sounds like an excuse. Not a reason.

[mehyaM24]

He was doing it in Washington before his own teammate fell and landed full weight on his knee. Never the same after that day. Stackhouse unfortunately didn't get to play with a healthy Mj

but again, injuries are part of the game. jordan cameback and was inefficient for another year. in chicago he played 11 seasons too. lebron has already played 18 and is still going strong. longevity isn't an argument jordan beats lebron in. sorry dude. nothing there puts them on equal footing.

[ImKobe]

but again, injuries are part of the game. jordan cameback and was inefficient for another year. in chicago he played 11 seasons too. lebron has already played 18 and is still going strong. longevity isn't an argument jordan beats lebron in. sorry dude. nothing there puts them on equal footing.

He was inefficient but not really that inefficient for early 2000s standards.

2002:

Jordan pre-injury - 24.6 ppg 42%FG
Iverson - 31.4 ppg 39.8%FG
Kobe - 25.2 ppg 46.9%FG
VC - 24.7 ppg 42.8%FG
Pierce - 26.1 ppg 44.2%FG

He played all 82 games at 37 mpg and shot 44.5%FG the following year at age 40.. Look at Kareem or Karl Malone at age 40, they were worse. You can make the minutes' argument but injuries take a worse toll and Jordan went through so many of them and returned in the toughest defensive era for guards in the early 2000s.

[2much_knowledge]

You're going back to being narrow minded. Sports is subjective but never definitive. you're making a definitive statement. And I don't jive with it.

Funny, I was beginning to think you were the rare reasonable Jordan fan. I guess not.

Are you sad cause i think lebron is not that player? Boo hoo. The plenty reasons i stated just below that you dicided to skip, are very reasonable. Yall just fanboys. MJ is my 4th favorite player. I like Bird and Kobe better. But im real

[hateraid]

Are you sad cause i think lebron is not that player? Boo hoo. The plenty reasons i stated just below that you dicided to skip, are very reasonable. Yall just fanboys. MJ is my 4th favorite player. I like Bird and Kobe better. But im real

Another narrow minded Jordan trait. Assuming people are LeBron fanboys if they disagree. But keep telling people you're "real"

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He had euro Pippen Kukoc, still there. Surely Jordan who made Pippen who he was could have made Kukoc into a 2 way machine. He was already better offensively than Pippen. Jordan didn't need a coach so Tim Floyd was more than adequate. When Jordan retired the first time surely that 55 win team was a fluke. They were just scrubs. The 98-99 team was just as equally talented

Wait a minute. You're applying common sense and logic. Who do you think you are? Some "hotshot" now? :lol

[KirbyPls]

Wait a minute. You're applying common sense and logic. Who do you think you are? Some "hotshot" now? :lol

A real revolutionary around these parts. :oldlol:

[2much_knowledge]

Another narrow minded Jordan trait. Assuming people are LeBron fanboys if they disagree. But keep telling people you're "real"

A asked for your detailed reasoning and case for lebron. I told you mine, simple and in plain english, where is yours?

[deathawaitu]

Same reason why daddy left lebron.

[SATAN]

Just get off this forum and go watch the last dance. Its on netflix



This is where this guy gets his information from :oldlol:

[AnaheimLakers24]

he knew thats all it would take to be better than lebrick

[Axe]

He had to retire for the second time in his career so he can come back prepared, this time with the washington wizards after two seasons since his 6th ring.

Also, he can't stand not being shackled to scottie pippen anymore i guess.

[TheCorporation]

He passed Kareem in playoff points and thought no one could ever pass him. He was wrong

https://i.postimg.cc/3JchW5xZ/TOP_1._GOAT.png

[3ball]

According to 3ball he had a weak cast that could have been replaced with players the level of Hersey Hawkins, Zadrunas Ilgaskus, and Larry Hughes.
When the useless Pippen, over the hill Rodman, and, non-factor coach Jackson decided to move on surely Jordan could have picked up the slack with any bum. Why did he retire? Very suspect if you ask me.


Expansion spread the talent around evenly in the 90's, so a super-team wasn't required to win anymore like the 80's.

Once a super-team wasn't required to win anymore, the best player was going to start winning regardless of cast.

And we already know that the 90' Bulls nearly won the title with a weaker cast than the 05' Cavs - the bulls had the #19 defense and a sidekick with less offense (less scoring, efficiency, PER, WS/48)

[Axe]

In the 90"s, expansion spread the talent around evenly so a super-team wasn't required to win anymore like the 80's.

Once a super-team wasn't required to win anymore, the best player was going to start winning regardless of cast.

And we already know that the 90' Bulls nearly won the title with a weaker cast than the 05' Cavs - the bulls had the #19 defense and a sidekick with less offense (less scoring, efficiency, PER, WS/48)
You didn't answer his question, you buffoon.

[sdot_thadon]

MJ was exhausted from his all-time carry jobs. And 6 carry jobs = by far the most in NBA history. You know that'll be geekballs angle :lol

My favorite one is Jordan "making" Pippen. Apparently Mike was such a genius he couldn't make more of them in Washington.

:oldlol:

[3ball]

You didn't answer his question, you buffoon.


Here's the answer:

Jordan didn't want to start over with teammate and chemistry development, which is imperative in the parity 90's where no team wins with overriding talent (no super-teams)

Again, expansion spread the talent around evenly in the 90's so a super-team wasn't required to win anymore like the 80's.

Once a super-team wasn't required to win anymore, the best player was going to start winning regardless of cast.

And we already know that the 90' Bulls nearly won the title with a weaker cast than the 05' Cavs - the bulls had the #19 defense and a sidekick with less offense (less scoring, efficiency, PER, WS/48)

[Axe]

Here's the answer:

Jordan didn't want to start over with teammate and chemistry development, which is imperative in the parity 90's where no team wins with overriding talent (no super-teams)

Again, expansion spread the talent around evenly in the 90's so a super-team wasn't required to win anymore like the 80's.

Once a super-team wasn't required to win anymore, the best player was going to start winning regardless of cast.

And we already know that the 90' Bulls nearly won the title with a weaker cast than the 05' Cavs - the bulls had the #19 defense and a sidekick with less offense (less scoring, efficiency, PER, WS/48)
He asked why did he retire after he got his sixth ring. Your answer doesn't make any sense at all whatsoever.

[3ball]

He asked why did he retire after he got his sixth ring. Your answer doesn't make any sense at all whatsoever.


Jordan didn't want to start over with teammate and chemistry development

How does that not make sense?

[Axe]

Jordan didn't want to start over with teammate and chemistry development

How does that not make sense?
So the dynasty core was important to him? Ah i see.

[3ball]

So the dynasty core was important to him? Ah i see.


teammate and chemistry development was imperative in the parity 90's where no team won with overriding talent (no super-teams)

Expansion spread the talent around evenly in the 90's so a super-team wasn't required to win anymore like the 80's.

Once a super-team wasn't required to win anymore, the best player was going to start winning regardless of cast.

And we already know that the 90' Bulls nearly won the title with a weaker cast than the 05' Cavs - the bulls had the #19 defense and a sidekick with less offense (less scoring, efficiency, PER, WS/48)

[Axe]

teammate and chemistry development was imperative in the parity 90's where no team won with overriding talent (no super-teams)

Expansion spread the talent around evenly in the 90's so a super-team wasn't required to win anymore like the 80's.

Once a super-team wasn't required to win anymore, the best player was going to start winning regardless of cast.

And we already know that the 90' Bulls nearly won the title with a weaker cast than the 05' Cavs - the bulls had the #19 defense and a sidekick with less offense (less scoring, efficiency, PER, WS/48)
http://replygif.net/i/1535.gif

[mehyaM24]

He was inefficient but not really that inefficient for early 2000s standards.

2002:

Jordan pre-injury - 24.6 ppg 42%FG
Iverson - 31.4 ppg 39.8%FG
Kobe - 25.2 ppg 46.9%FG
VC - 24.7 ppg 42.8%FG
Pierce - 26.1 ppg 44.2%FG

He played all 82 games at 37 mpg and shot 44.5%FG the following year at age 40.. Look at Kareem or Karl Malone at age 40, they were worse. You can make the minutes' argument but injuries take a worse toll and Jordan went through so many of them and returned in the toughest defensive era for guards in the early 2000s.

still not seeing how any of this changes the argument for jordan. lebron & kareem's longevity is simply greater.

-more seasons played
-more consecutive seasons played
-more years in their prime
-more years they were elite
-no retirements

i can agree that wizards jordan was "not that inefficient" by 2000 standards - but he wasn't elite either. bringing up those years does nothing to push the argument in his favor.

[8Ball]

http://replygif.net/i/1535.gif

Hahahahhahahaha

Rubbish!

[mehyaM24]

http://replygif.net/i/1535.gif

lol your gif game is on point, bud

[3ball]

http://replygif.net/i/1535.gif


Once a super-team wasn't required to win anymore (parity 90's), the best player was going to win regardless of cast - but he still needs time for teammate and chemistry development, which is imperative in a parity league where no team wins with overriding talent (no super-teams)

So naturally, Jordan retired because he didn't have time for the teammate and chemistry development that a parity league requires

:hammerhead:

[3ball]

Btw, here's the intro to the 97' Finals:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz_-QFelPZE&t=01m27s


They only talk about the 5 titles being Jordan's.. it was a 1-man team with the media only doing "teammate appreciation" coverage on the cast.

[Axe]

Hahahahhahahaha

Rubbish!
He's jeremy clarkson, former presenter of bbc's top gear. :pimp:

[SATAN]

I was brainwashed by sports media and everyone else trying to make a buck off MJ's talent in the 90s

We know.

[r0drig0lac]

Has there ever been a superstar who wins league MVP and FMVP in the same season, then quits the league? Not only once, but twice????

yep, the goat MJ

[Hey Yo]

Somebody else CAN be. And i hope that player arrives and i get to witness it

But a player who is 2 rings, 2 finals mvps, 1 mvp, 1 dpoy, 2 three peats, 9 scoring tittles, 3 steals tittles short and played with 4 extra allstar teammates in their prime, he can't be it. As simple as that

That was accomplished due to him resting, in his prime, for almost 2 full seasons.

Due to MJ needing to do that, it disqualifies him from from GOAT talk. It's as simple as that.

[Hey Yo]

Once a super-team wasn't required to win anymore (parity 90's), the best player was going to win regardless of cast - but he still needs time for teammate and chemistry development, which is imperative in a parity league where no team wins with overriding talent (no super-teams)

So naturally, Jordan retired because he didn't have time for the teammate and chemistry development that a parity league requires

:hammerhead:

The repeat Pistons weren't a superteam.

[clipps]

Haterade is the most underrated retard on ISH.

[Ainosterhaspie]

A asked for your detailed reasoning and case for lebron. I told you mine, simple and in plain english, where is yours?
No other basketball player has been as complete and as great as long as LeBron. MJ may have achieved slightly higher highs, but couldn't sustain them anywhere near as long. Kareem may have lasted longer but didn't maintain as high a level. Russell and Wilt have cases (greatest winner and greatest stats) but are docked for era among other things.

That's the simplified version of LeBron’s case. All of the above mentioned players have legit cases for GOAT and it ultimately comes down to personal preference more than anything. For me it doesn't matter which of the above someone thinks is GOAT, but if they can't acknowledge the above players have legitimate cases, it's hard to take them seriously as basketball fans.

[2much_knowledge]

No other basketball player has been as complete and as great as long as LeBron. MJ may have achieved slightly higher highs, but couldn't sustain them anywhere near as long. Kareem may have lasted longer but didn't maintain as high a level. Russell and Wilt have cases (greatest winner and greatest stats) but are docked for era among other things.

That's the simplified version of LeBron’s case. All of the above mentioned players have legit cases for GOAT and it ultimately comes down to personal preference more than anything. For me it doesn't matter which of the above someone thinks is GOAT, but if they can't acknowledge the above players have legitimate cases, it's hard to take them seriously as basketball fans.

Then ill ask again. How can a player that complete and for that long period of time, be so far behind in comparison with Jordan's achievements? And how does he loses so much when he has had more help? You see it doesn't add up

[2much_knowledge]

That was accomplished due to him resting, in his prime, for almost 2 full seasons.

Due to MJ needing to do that, it disqualifies him from from GOAT talk. It's as simple as that.

Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. Nobody thinks like that except you

[Hey Yo]

Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. Nobody thinks like that except you
The facts have been presented and you choose to ignore them.

Some guys just aren't cut out to play more than 7 consecutive full seasons with 3 Finals appearances w/o needing to quit to rest up.

That's why MJ had 3 true rings and 3 load management rings. You can't do that and still be considered GOAT.

4 >>>>>>> 3

[TheCorporation]

The facts have been presented and you choose to ignore them.

Some guys just aren't cut out to play more than 7 consecutive full seasons with 3 Finals appearances w/o needing to quit to rest up.

That's why MJ had 3 true rings and 3 load management rings. You can't do that and still be considered GOAT.

4 >>>>>>> 3

Big fax

[baudkarma]

MJ (and the rest of the NBA) knew that there were going to be labor/management issues following the '98 season. There was going to be a lockout, at the very least a significant number of games would be missed, and many people believed the entire season would be cancelled. And it was obvious that there we be a serious public opinion backlash against those greedy players who wanted millions of dollars just to play a game. On the one hand the players union would want Jordan, the most famous and most popular player in the league, to be their spokesman and explain their position. On the other hand, the many, many corporate sponsors who were paying Jordan millions to shoes or underwear or sugar water or hot dogs... they would all want Jordan to keep a low profile, and not do anything that might hurt their bottom line.

So what did Jordan do? He retired. That gave him an out, any time someone wanted to discuss the lockout he could say "Well, as you know, I'm retired now. I've been busy playing golf, and haven't really been keeping up with the negotiations." Nicely avoiding upsetting anyone.

[Axe]

No other basketball player has been as complete and as great as long as LeBron. MJ may have achieved slightly higher highs, but couldn't sustain them anywhere near as long. Kareem may have lasted longer but didn't maintain as high a level. Russell and Wilt have cases (greatest winner and greatest stats) but are docked for era among other things.

That's the simplified version of LeBron’s case. All of the above mentioned players have legit cases for GOAT and it ultimately comes down to personal preference more than anything. For me it doesn't matter which of the above someone thinks is GOAT, but if they can't acknowledge the above players have legitimate cases, it's hard to take them seriously as basketball fans.
Yet at the same time, amongst the four, he's lost more finals as well. While i don't disagree with those points you mentioned here, let's not act like kong never had some shortcomings in his career. However, they don't stop him from being up there with the other bball legends tho.

[2much_knowledge]

The facts have been presented and you choose to ignore them.

Some guys just aren't cut out to play more than 7 consecutive full seasons with 3 Finals appearances w/o needing to quit to rest up.

That's why MJ had 3 true rings and 3 load management rings. You can't do that and still be considered GOAT.

4 >>>>>>> 3

Three peat , honor his dad's wish , three peat. Where's bron's three peat???? Will he be able to squeak one in during my lifetime???? Please tell me

[mehyaM24]

Three peat , honor his dad's wish , three peat. Where's bron's three peat???? Will he be able to squeak one in during my lifetime???? Please tell me

well lebron has faced higher quality comp in the finals. more talent. more superstars. teams with better SRS on average too. lebron doesn't need a three-peat to be considered greater, especially with better longevity (more years in his prime, more years with elite play, and no breaks in-between).

[Axe]

well lebron has faced higher quality comp in the finals. more talent. more superstars. teams with better SRS on average too. lebron doesn't need a 3-peat to be considered greater, especially when he as much better longevity (more years in his prime, more years with elite play, and no breaks in-between).
He'll just say he couldn't have done those without team hopping or recruiting stars by his side tho. :confusedshrug:

[mehyaM24]

He'll just say he couldn't have done those without team hopping or recruiting stars by his side tho. :confusedshrug:

ya maybe. but to be succesful in this league, you got to have a loaded team. the 08 boston celtics laid out the blueprint and everyone else followed.

[2much_knowledge]

well lebron has faced higher quality comp in the finals. more talent. more superstars. teams with better SRS on average too. lebron doesn't need a 3-peat to be considered greater, especially when he as much better longevity (more years in his prime, more years with elite play, and no breaks in-between).

He does need to win at something at least. Can't hold on to longevity as yout only saving grace

Rings? Nope
Averages? Losing in 70% of categories and his averages are going down with injuries and age
Totals? Same games played, surprisingly lebron was down in most categories. I thought that was his thing lol
Accolades? Thats a masacre. Don't bother
Help? Too many extra allstar teammates, too many team jumps

Theres no case, none, cero, zip, nada

Longevity doesn't outweigh that, neither is getting your ass kicked in the finals by better teams

[mehyaM24]

why not? it did for kareem. lebron likely breaks a ton of records. leads in playoff points already and could pass magic in assists. again you're arguing that being durable is a bad thing. that isn't a negative and the media doesn't seem to think so either. lebron's recieved goat talk for months now. with another ring his case only becomes stronger.

[2much_knowledge]

why not? it did for kareem. lebron likely breaks a ton of records. leads in playoff points already and could pass magic in assists. again you're arguing that being durable is a bad thing. that isn't a negative and the media doesn't seem to think so either. lebron's recieved goat talk for months now. with another ring his case only becomes stronger.

So we can shove aside

* 2 rings
* 2 finals mvps
* 1 mvp
* 1 dpoy
* 9 scoring tittles
* 3 steals tittles
* 2 three peats

Thats a whole hall of fame, top 15 alltime career resume separating the two. Increible how most people here act like thats nothing and doesn't hold weight

[mehyaM24]

So we can shove aside

* 2 rings
* 2 finals mvps
* 1 mvp
* 1 dpoy
* 9 scoring tittles
* 3 steals tittles
* 2 three peats

Thats a whole hall of fame, top 15 alltime career resume separating the two. Increible how most people here act like thats nothing and doesn't hold weight

its "shoved aside" for kareem - another goat candidate. why wouldn't it be for lebron?

[Axe]

its "shoved aside" for kareem - another goat candidate. why wouldn't it be for lebron?
Yea i don't understand his logic too. At least give kong the credit for what he's done as an individual player, regardless if he did so by colluding, by team hopping or recruiting, etc.

[Mauzah]

Why should Jordan an already proven GOAT have to do a rebuild at age 35? You guys are insane.

He played with Pip since 85 and Phil Jackson I'm guessing roughly around the same time because we all know PJ started as an assistant coach before coming the head coach.

MJ earned the right to run it back with the same crew he's had for 15 ****ing years you mooks. Jesus Christ you LeKong fans are pathetic.

[Axe]

Why should Jordan an already proven GOAT have to do a rebuild at age 35? You guys are insane.

He played with Pip since 85 and Phil Jackson I'm guessing roughly around the same time because we all know PJ started as an assistant coach before coming the head coach.

MJ earned the right to run it back with the same crew he's had for 15 ****ing years you mooks. Jesus Christ you LeKong fans are pathetic.
You say since '85, although pippen was drafted in '87. :ohwell:

[3ball]

You say since '85, although pippen was drafted in '87. :ohwell:


Lebron couldn't make the 2nd Round without a 2-time all-star center, the future COY, a 22/6/5 acquisition and a top rebounding/defensive team - that's easily enough to compete in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won.

Otoh, young Jordan played in a conference that required a super-team to win, yet he made the 2nd Round with a simple rebounder (oakley).




You say since '85, although pippen was drafted in '87. :ohwell:


the 05' Cavs had a much better team defense than the 90' Bulls (#12 vs #19), while Zydrunas was a top 5 rim protector/all-star with better offense than Pippen (scoring, efficiency, PER, WS/48).

Accordingly, 90' Jordan nearly led a worse cast than the 05' Cavs to the title, while Lebron needed a much better cast than the 05' Cavs to be title-worthy.




You say since '85, although pippen was drafted in '87. :ohwell:


Ultimately, anyone was going to win alongside the league's best player once expansion spread the talent around evenly in the 90's, so a special team (super-team) was no longer required to win like the 80's.

[Axe]

Lebron couldn't make the 2nd Round without a 2-time all-star center, the future COY, a 22/6/5 acquisition and a top rebounding/defensive team - that's easily enough to compete in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won.

Otoh, young Jordan played in a conference that required a super-team to win, yet he made the 2nd Round with a simple rebounder (oakley).






the 05' Cavs had a much better team defense than the 90' Bulls (#12 vs #19), while Zydrunas was a top 5 rim protector/all-star with better offense than Pippen (scoring, efficiency, PER, WS/48).

Accordingly, 90' Jordan nearly led a worse cast than the 05' Cavs to the title, while Lebron needed a much better cast than the 05' Cavs to be title-worthy.






Ultimately, anyone was going to win alongside the league's best player once expansion spread the talent around evenly in the 90's, so a special team (super-team) was no longer required to win like the 80's.
You are retarded, so...

Foxtrot
Oscar
Hotel

[Mauzah]

You say since '85, although pippen was drafted in '87. :ohwell:

That's correct and the point remains Jordan and co earned the right to run it back.

[Axe]

That's correct and the point remains Jordan and co earned the right to run it back.
He also didn't play with the bulls for 15 years and that's counting his one & a half years of his first 'retirement'.

[3ball]

You are retarded, so...

Foxtrot
Oscar
Hotel


Compare Jordan and lebron's help needed to make the 2nd Round - Jordan needed a simple rebounder in a super-team conference, while lebron needed a bevy of decorated players in a 1-star conference

[Mauzah]

He also didn't play with the bulls for 15 years and that's counting his one & a half years of his first 'retirement'.

Anything else to add?

[Hey Yo]

He does need to win at something at least. Can't hold on to longevity as yout only saving grace

Rings? Nope
Averages? Losing in 70% of categories and his averages are going down with injuries and age
Totals? Same games played, surprisingly lebron was down in most categories. I thought that was his thing lol
Accolades? Thats a masacre. Don't bother
Help? Too many extra allstar teammates, too many team jumps

Theres no case, none, cero, zip, nada

Longevity doesn't outweigh that, neither is getting your ass kicked in the finals by better teams
4 rings.... 4MVP.... 4 FMVP

without quitting in his prime to rest up

4 >>>>>>>>> 3

[mehyaM24]

Why should Jordan an already proven GOAT have to do a rebuild at age 35? You guys are insane.

He played with Pip since 85 and Phil Jackson I'm guessing roughly around the same time because we all know PJ started as an assistant coach before coming the head coach.

MJ earned the right to run it back with the same crew he's had for 15 ****ing years you mooks. Jesus Christ you LeKong fans are pathetic.

whose arguing that though? kareem and lebron have better longevity which is why they're GOAT candidates. that doesn't mean mj never proved anything. or that he should have been forced to stay :oldlol: it was jordan's choice and he decided to retire - for the second time.

[Mauzah]

whose arguing that though? kareem and lebron have better longevity which is why they're GOAT candidates. that doesn't mean mj never proved anything. or that he should have been forced to stay :oldlol: it was jordan's choice and he decided to retire - for the second time.

Longevity is only one component to the debate and even then it doesn't interest me much.

The argument boils down to who had the highest peak out of all the GOAT candidates and it's clearly Jordan.

[mehyaM24]

Longevity is only one component to the debate and even then it doesn't interest me much.

The argument boils down to who had the highest peak out of all the GOAT candidates and it's clearly Jordan.

agree to disagree. to many its the most important one. and peak =/= career.

[Mauzah]

agree to disagree. to many its the most important one. and peak =/= career.

It's more important than who was the better peak basketball player?

That's like having a best vehicle debate and choosing the Honda Civic over the Lamborghini because the Civic is still running.

:facepalm

[mehyaM24]

It's more important than who was the better peak basketball player?

That's like having a best vehicle debate and choosing the Honda Civic over the Lamborghini because the Civic is still running.

:facepalm

having a great career goes more into "GOAT" than peak play. which is about 3 years tops. are you really debating that?

[Mauzah]

Jordan 88-93 was absolutely ridiculous and obviously not three years.

And when comparing careers Jordan wins that too. Not only when you measure stats and rings but by also the super fiscal stuff like dunks competitions and media/commercials.

Jordan was straight up magical while Lebrons career is marred with team hoping, finger pointing and fear of the big moment.

You support a fraud who fills up the stat sheet so people like you come to his legacy rescue. It's sad how many people are fooled by this BS.

[mehyaM24]

Jordan 88-93 was absolutely ridiculous and obviously not three years.

And when comparing careers Jordan wins that too. Not only when you measure stats and rings but by also the super fiscal stuff like dunks competitions and media/commercials.

Jordan was straight up magical while Lebrons career is marred with team hoping, finger pointing and fear of the big moment.

You support a fraud who fills up the stat sheet so people like you come to his legacy rescue. It's sad how many people are fooled by this BS.

you exposed your true colors right here. lets be honest, you weren't looking for a REAL discussion. only jordan lip service :oldlol:

[Mauzah]

Are you calling me a Jordan fanboy? I wouldn't care a single iota and Jordan was eclipsed as GOAT a thousand times over. I would love to see it.

I call him the the best ever because it's simply the truth. That's all I'm after. The truth.

Basketball is the best sport in the world and ball IS life. It's a shame to see so many brainwashed people who have no desire to learn the truth because it doesn't fit their timeline.

[Axe]

It's more important than who was the better peak basketball player?

That's like having a best vehicle debate and choosing the Honda Civic over the Lamborghini because the Civic is still running.

:facepalm
A big lmao at this analogy :roll:

The honda civic is a cheap car produced for the masses while the lambo is an exotic, super expensive one here. When that logic is applied to these exceptional athletes, are you really trying to suggest that kong himself is just an ordinary player like many way lesser significant players in the league?

[light]

The answer is that the Bulls were being broken up by the Jerrys and Jordan was still too afraid at that point to play without Pippen and Jackson so he quit.

[light]

Jordan 88-93 was absolutely ridiculous and obviously not three years.

And when comparing careers Jordan wins that too. Not only when you measure stats and rings but by also the super fiscal stuff like dunks competitions and media/commercials.

Jordan was straight up magical while Lebrons career is marred with team hoping, finger pointing and fear of the big moment.

You support a fraud who fills up the stat sheet so people like you come to his legacy rescue. It's sad how many people are fooled by this BS.

Jordan's career was marred by the weak 90s. Even at the time people knew it couldn't compare to the powerhouses of the 80s and that's why even though the 1996 Bulls won a record 72 games no one considered them the greatest team of all time because the league was weak. No one disputed it. Dennis Rodman readily admitted that the league was weak in 1996.

So we have to consider that. If Jordan had to play with the kinds of teams we've had over the last 10-12 years he just wouldn't win like he did in the 90's, if he would've won at all.

By comparison, even during this time of peak competition, great superteams and a league oozing with talent, LeBron James still somehow managed to go to 8 consecutive NBA Finals and 10 out of 14. That's absolutely unbelievable and more magical than anything Jordan did in his career.

And look, everyone has been trying to make superteams since the 2008 Celtics and only one dude managed to go to 10 out of 14 finals and 8 consecutive.

LeBron is on a whole different level. The difference between LeBron James and Michael Jordan is not small. LeBron is significantly better by a large degree.

[kawhileonard2]

If Lebron is better why did he win 2 bronze medals and lose 3 series with HCA to inferior players and win 1 title in 11 years for the franchise that drafted him?

[Mauzah]

Jordan's career was marred by the weak 90s. Even at the time people knew it couldn't compare to the powerhouses of the 80s and that's why even though the 1996 Bulls won a record 72 games no one considered them the greatest team of all time because the league was weak. No one disputed it. Dennis Rodman readily admitted that the league was weak in 1996.

So we have to consider that. If Jordan had to play with the kinds of teams we've had over the last 10-12 years he just wouldn't win like he did in the 90's, if he would've won at all.

By comparison, even during this time of peak competition, great superteams and a league oozing with talent, LeBron James still somehow managed to go to 8 consecutive NBA Finals and 10 out of 14. That's absolutely unbelievable and more magical than anything Jordan did in his career.

And look, everyone has been trying to make superteams since the 2008 Celtics and only one dude managed to go to 10 out of 14 finals and 8 consecutive.

LeBron is on a whole different level. The difference between LeBron James and Michael Jordan is not small. LeBron is significantly better by a large degree.

The were no super teams through the 90's including the Bulls. Yes, they are super in that they dominated their era but not from a talent perspective. People act as if they were loaded like the 86 Celtics or 17 Warriors when in fact they had plenty of holes.

Also, it's not like every team has their roster thinned out except Chicago :oldlol:

And you also had guys spending 3-4 years in college back so when they came into the league teams knew what they were getting and you had less projects/question marks.

And those finals trips looks nice until you realize it was in the east and as crazy as 3ball is he does have some valid points with how easy it was. I watched those games myself, Toronto, Washington, Atlanta... Really?

[Mauzah]

The answer is that the Bulls were being broken up by the Jerrys and Jordan was still too afraid at that point to play without Pippen and Jackson so he quit.

No, I'm using an extreme example so you have a chance at comprehension.

[2much_knowledge]

You guys have a phd in believing the sillly excuses you come up with. They get really creative

[2much_knowledge]

Yea i don't understand his logic too. At least give kong the credit for what he's done as an individual player, regardless if he did so by colluding, by team hopping or recruiting, etc.

Whats so hard to understand? People like Durant, Wade, Dirk, Barkley, Garnett, Curry, Malone, Oscar, Hakeem, Leonard are well respected players and they fall short of that list. Theres a clear gap between Mj and lebron and people wanna play dumb, blind like its not there

[2much_knowledge]

its "shoved aside" for kareem - another goat candidate. why wouldn't it be for lebron?

For kareem? When i have seen Kareem on top of a list? Cant recall. All of the list, channels, magazines, have one thing in common. Jordan at the top spot. Every single one. Even the players voted, it was over 70%. They made a tournament of goats one week ago and Jordan was the final vs Wayne Gretzky's. Kareem is not on top of any list. Stop imagining things. Sounds like wishful thinking

[2much_knowledge]

If Lebron is better why did he win 2 bronze medals and lose 3 series with HCA to inferior players and win 1 title in 11 years for the franchise that drafted him?

Because he ain't. That simple. That guy is either Bronny or on crack.

[2much_knowledge]

Let me show you how stupid and hypocritical they are


* 2 rings
* 2 finals mvps
* 1 mvp
* 1 dpoy
* 9 scoring tittles
* 3 steals tittles
* 2 three peats

They don't acknowledge these additional accolades. But they all hail mighty Pippen who only has the 2 rings out of that list.

Lol , Only because it suits their little agenda.

[Axe]

Whats so hard to understand? People like Durant, Wade, Dirk, Barkley, Garnett, Curry, Malone, Oscar, Hakeem, Leonard are well respected players and they fall short of that list. Theres a clear gap between Mj and lebron and people wanna play dumb, blind like its not there
On why you kept implying that others are great while kong isn't. :oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

For kareem? When i have seen Kareem on top of a list? Cant recall. All of the list, channels, magazines, have one thing in common. Jordan at the top spot. Every single one. Even the players voted, it was over 70%. They made a tournament of goats one week ago and Jordan was the final vs Wayne Gretzky's. Kareem is not on top of any list. Stop imagining things. Sounds like wishful thinking

this is casual fan gospel. how long have you been following the nba? again YOU might not have seen it, but here's a little refresher


But if we’re going to have this discussion about the greatest of all-time, then one seven-footer with an unstoppable sky hook shot belongs in the conversation. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Winner of six NBA titles (five with the Los Angeles Lakers), six MVPs, two Finals MVPs. He’s a 19-time All-Star, 15-time All-NBA performer and the NBA’s all-time leading scorer with 38,387 points.

He averaged at least 21 points in his first 17 seasons, averaged at least 12 rebounds in his first 10 seasons and shot at least 50% from the field and if you want to talk about someone who protected the paint, Abdul-Jabbar is third on the all-time blocked shots list with 3,189.

He had a sky hook that was almost as successful as it was unstoppable. With a turn and flick of the wrist high over his right shoulder, the hook shot was unique and never replicated with the same efficiency. It’s one of the rare shots that is identified with only one player.

He won his first title in 1971 and his last in 1988. When he was named Finals MVP in 1985, he averaged 25.7 points, 9 rebounds, 5.2 assists and 1.5 blocks. And his six MVPs came in a 10-year stretch from 1970-71 to 1979-80.

Miami Heat president and former Lakers coach Pat Riley once called Abdul-Jabbar the greatest of all-time.

Abdul-Jabbar better be on your list.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2020/05/02/nba-goat-kareem-abdul-jabbar-michael-jordan-lebron-james/3067719001/

i could pull out a dozen more articles from different magazines and mainstream papers. but the point would still remain: kareem, like lebron, is a goat candidate.

[warriorfan]

Op fuming at MJ because no one wants to buy any of his size 8 Jordan‘a. :lol

[2much_knowledge]

On why you kept implying that others are great while kong isn't. :oldlol:

Did you missed the part when i literally said bron when he retires, its gonna be consensus #2 all time? I have no problem admitting that.

Can you stop your one liners and adress directly what i said?

[2much_knowledge]

this is casual fan gospel. how long have you been following the nba? again YOU might not have seen it, but here's a little refresher


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2020/05/02/nba-goat-kareem-abdul-jabbar-michael-jordan-lebron-james/3067719001/

i could pull out a dozen more articles from different magazines and mainstream papers. but the point would still remain: kareem, like lebron, is a goat candidate.

I know Kareems whole career. No need to read nothing. 2 finals mvps doesn't help. Playing alongside side another top 5 player is a hugeeeee boost. Then you can add Oscar too. No comparison between Magic, the big o and Pippen. Theres no excuse for 2/6 finals mvps

[mehyaM24]

I know Kareems whole career. No need to read nothing. 2 finals mvps doesn't help. Playing alongside side another top 5 player is a hugeeeee boost. Then you can add Oscar too. No comparison between Magic, the big o and Pippen. Theres no excuse for 2/6 finals mvps

you "know his career" yet denied he had GOAT talk. :oldlol: ok pal. you asked for mainstream opinion and there it is.

your opinion on kareem is no different than with lebron. anyone can use a cherry-picked factoid. look at jordan, who played on stacked teams during the expansion era.

[2much_knowledge]

you "know his career" yet denied he had GOAT talk. :oldlol: ok pal. you asked for mainstream opinion and there it is.

your opinion on kareem is no different than with lebron. anyone can use a cherry-picked factoid. look at jordan, who played on stacked teams during the expansion era.

Kareem IS the basketball goat if you would include high school and Ncaa dominance. If its Nba only, no way.

[mehyaM24]

Kareem IS the basketball goat if you would include high school and Ncaa dominance. If its Nba only, no way.

mainstream opinion, which you previously thought didn't exist, does not agree.

[2much_knowledge]

mainstream opinion, which you previously thought didn't exist, does not agree.

Oh i agree. I changed my mind

1) Jordan
2) Kareem
3) Lebron

Now that i think about it ;)

[hateraid]

Oh i agree. I changed my mind

1) Jordan
2) Kareem
3) Lebron

Now that i think about it ;)

This guy claims to be unbias and deflects it by saying he's a Bird fan lol. Another Jordan looney stan.

[2much_knowledge]

This guy claims to be unbias and deflects it by saying he's a Bird fan lol. Another Jordan looney stan.

1) Vince
2) Kobe
3) Bird
4) Jordan

If i was biased or obsessed with my favorite relevant player, i would be all day looking for cheap delusional excuses to suggest Kobe or Bird could be goats. That would be biased

[Axe]

This guy claims to be unbias and deflects it by saying he's a Bird fan lol. Another Jordan looney stan.
And he made threads recently trashing kong too. How sad.

[hateraid]

1) Vince
2) Kobe
3) Bird
4) Jordan

If i was biased or obsessed with my favorite relevant player, i would be all day looking for cheap delusional excuses to suggest Kobe or Bird could be goats. That would be biased

Like I said, smokescreen. You clearly hang off Jordan's nuts.

[hateraid]

And he made threads recently trashing kong too. How sad.

He's a Jordan stan. Current top 3. Funny how stans try to play the "my favorite player is not Jordan" card

[2much_knowledge]

Like I said, smokescreen. You clearly hang off Jordan's nuts.

Should i be obsessed and delusional to search Kobe records over Jordan or something to prove im loyal to him?

Its not a bad thing to recognize there are other players better than your favorite player. Its called being impartial

[Axe]

He's a Jordan stan. Current top 3. Funny how stans try to play the "my favorite player is not Jordan" card
Most likely. I also noticed that Kiddlovesnets has become tight-lipped recently here.

[TheCorporation]

MJ was exhausted from his all-time carry jobs. And 6 carry jobs = by far the most in NBA history. You know that'll be geekballs angle :lol

My favorite one is Jordan "making" Pippen. Apparently Mike was such a genius he couldn't make more of them in Washington.

:lol

[bullettooth]

:lol

This dude bumping old threads in order to cope with LeBron losing in the first round.

There there, babyboi. Everything will be alright.

[WhiteKyrie]

The feeling of accomplishment of winning 2 three peats. I guess if he got waxed in the first round that would’ve gave him more motivation to stay

[DABIGSALSISHA]

According to 3ball he had a weak cast that could have been replaced with players the level of Hersey Hawkins, Zadrunas Ilgaskus, and Larry Hughes.
When the useless Pippen, over the hill Rodman, and, non-factor coach Jackson decided to move on surely Jordan could have picked up the slack with any bum. Why did he retire? Very suspect if you ask me.

Go watch the Last Dance. Your answer is there.

[Airupthere]

Meh

[Soundwave]

Phil Jackson *did* try to get Jordan to come out of retirement and go to LA with him for the 1999-2000 season.

Jordan would've easily won another 2-3 titles with Shaq and Kobe, no question if he really wanted to title chase like that.

[And1AllDay]

According to 3ball he had a weak cast that could have been replaced with players the level of Hersey Hawkins, Zadrunas Ilgaskus, and Larry Hughes.
When the useless Pippen, over the hill Rodman, and, non-factor coach Jackson decided to move on surely Jordan could have picked up the slack with any bum. Why did he retire? Very suspect if you ask me.

bang!

[000]

Because he sucks compared to Lebron. Lebron didnt leave after his 6th ring

[FireDavidKahn]

He couldn't mentally handle it. That's literally the excuse he gave to the public when he retired after 3 rings. He couldn't handle it mentally.

Now imagine him playing in today's era where social media/news/etc are 99x as worse as it was back then. :roll:

[Axe]

Meh he's a fraud but if he really sucked so much then he wouldn't even be talked about as one of the hot topics here. :sleeping