Orlando Magic eliminating the Bulls in Game 6 of the 1995 NBA Playoffs.

[Lebron23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmq3FHY5TYo Orlando Magic eliminating the Bulls in Game 6 of the 1995 NBA Playoffs. Shaq and Grant took advantage of the Bulls front court. One of the reasons why the Bulls traded Will Purdue for Dennis Rodman in one of the worst trades of all time for the Spurs. Grant averaged 18 ppg and 11 rpg against his former team. They had a rematch in 1996 Bulls prevailed. Series could have been longer if Horace Grant didn't get injured in Game 1. Grant only played 1 game against Chicago in the 1996 nba playoffs. Shaq signed with the Lakers the following season and the rest was history."

[SATAN]

MJ stans just pretend this never happened or make excuses for him. Some don't even know it happened because they are casuals. It's fine but if they want to hold LeBron to all these standards they need to be realistic about it.

[HylianNightmare]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/8d/7e/ae8d7e68c710ba37cedf3cc24892a261.jpg

[Lebron23]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/8d/7e/ae8d7e68c710ba37cedf3cc24892a261.jpg

He played in the 1995 NBA playoffs.

[SouBeachTalents]

He played in the 1995 NBA playoffs.
He sure did

https://www.nba.com/images/vod01/teams/magic/2020/05/07/3209455/1588880529928-2175858_05071995_Nick_Anderson_mp4_Maria_Aldana_20 200428_195907-3209455-3.1920x1080.jpg

[8Ball]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmq3FHY5TYo Orlando Magic eliminating the Bulls in Game 6 of the 1995 NBA Playoffs. Shaq and Grant took advantage of the Bulls front court. One of the reasons why the Bulls traded Will Purdue for Dennis Rodman in one of the worst trades of all time for the Spurs. Grant averaged 18 ppg and 11 rpg against his former team. They had a rematch in 1996 Bulls prevailed. Series could have been longer if Horace Grant didn't get injured in Game 1. Grant only played 1 game against Chicago in the 1996 nba playoffs. Shaq signed with the Lakers the following season and the rest was history."

Dennis Rodman saved Jordan's career.

[pandiani17]

Shout-out to that Magic team. They were really, really good, though most people don't even remember them anymore. Horace Grant and Shaquille O'Neal frontcourt, and Nick Anderson, Penny Hardaway or Dennis Scott draining 3's in the backcourt.

[Lebron23]

Shout-out to that Magic team. They were really, really good, though most people don't even remember them anymore. Horace Grant and Shaquille O'Neal frontcourt, and Nick Anderson, Penny Hardaway or Dennis Scott draining 3's in the backcourt.

Toni Kukoc and Ron Harper were already playing for the Bulls back then.

[pandiani17]

Toni Kukoc and Ron Harper were already playing for the Bulls back then.

I wasn't comparing them to the Bulls. I was jast propping that Magic team. If Shaq had stayed they would probably have won a ring with that roster.

[8Ball]

1995 Magic was the best team Jordan faced in the entire 90s. He lost to them convincingly and they were injured a year later.

[Bronbron23]

MJ stans just pretend this never happened or make excuses for him. Some don't even know it happened because they are casuals. It's fine but if they want to hold LeBron to all these standards they need to be realistic about it.

Not really, most just use common sense about it. Mj missed almost 2 years playing a completely different sport. Once again bron stans are hypocrites on this subject. Lebron misses just 30 games and he couldn't find his playoff mode and his stans excuse it but mj misses a year and a half and the expect him to be the same guy. Brons stans are so unaware of their shit:facepalm

[mehyaM24]

olrando was better that run than in 96 in large part because grant was healthy. he averaged 18/11 in this series and shot 61% from the field. without him in 96 though rodman destroyed the magic on the boards (averaged 12pts/16reb for the series) and chicago took care of the magic quickly. the game in op though proves why houston would have won regardless of jordan. the myth that somehow he would have "stopped" them (even though chicago lost to orlando WITH jordan) is always funny to see. :oldlol:

[Bronbron23]

olrando was better that run than in 96 in large part because grant was healthy. he averaged 18/11 in this series and shot 61% from the field. without him in 96 though rodman destroyed the magic on the boards (averaged 12pts/16reb for the series) and chicago took care of the magic quickly. the game in op though proves why houston would have won regardless of jordan. the myth that somehow he would have "stopped" them (even though chicago lost to orlando WITH jordan) is always funny to see. :oldlol:

It's wasn't just not having grant but they didn't even pick up a solid power foward to replace him. Take away anybody's third best player and they'll have a harder time. On top of that mj clearly wasn't fully back after missing a year and a half. He was still great but even a 90% mj isn't enough to beat a talented magic team without his third best player. Again bron couldn't turn it on after missing just a quarter of the season so why do bron stans expect mj to be able to after missing more than a season and a half?

It's just troll shit. It be like me asking why couldn't bron get the lakers to the playoffs without Anthony davis. Bron haters have asked this on here and it's dumb trill shit.

[TheCorporation]

Yikes.

MJ got cooked. Forget about a Finals loss, Mikey boy couldn't even get that far.

#RealWinnersLoseEarly

[mehyaM24]

It's wasn't just not having grant but they didn't even pick up a solid power foward to replace him. Take away anybody's third best player and they'll have a harder time. On top of that mj clearly wasn't fully back after missing a year and a half. He was still great but even a 90% mj isn't enough to beat a talented magic team without his third best player. Again bron couldn't turn it on after missing just a quarter of the season so why do bron stans expect mj to be able to after missing more than a season and a half?

It's just troll shit. It be like me asking why couldn't bron get the lakers to the playoffs without Anthony davis. Bron haters have asked this on here and it's dumb trill shit.

ya but the mj brigade act like all jordan needed was pippen. even with pippen though he's dragged through the mud, and rarely held in high esteem. dont agree with jordan looking rust either.. he averaged 32ppg on 48% shooting in the playoffs. its doubtful rodman would've been enough to sway that series in their favor (mj stans definitely don't think so). the magic were REALLY good that year. and the rockets would've been even tougher.

[Bronbron23]

ya but the mj brigade act like all jordan needed was pippen. even with pippen though he's dragged through the mud, and rarely held in high esteem. dont agree with jordan looking rust either.. he averaged 32ppg on 48% shooting in the playoffs. its doubtful rodman would've been enough to sway that series in their favor (mj stans definitely don't think so). the magic were REALLY good that year. and the rockets would've been even tougher.

Well his stats for the year were by far his worst. As usual like bron he amped it up come playoff time but he clearly was a little off. Don't need stats to see that. Literally everyone but mj haters saw it and were commenting on it in real time.

And i definitely think Rodman would of swayed that series but who knows have to agree to disagree on that.

I mean i'm fine if we're going with he wasn't rusty and he was fully back qnd he just couldn't get it done but we have to apply the same to bron in 19-20.

[3ball]

.
1995 ECSF

Jordan... 31.0.. 6.7.. 3.7.. 2.5.. 1.8.. 48%
Pippen... 19.0.. 9.7.. 5.7.. 1.0.. 1.3.. 41%

^^^ Jordan led most categories and carried the scoring


Critical Game 5

Jordan... 39 pts
Pippen... 10 pts

[dankok8]

MJ's Bulls legit lost in 1995. However he did still play very well in the Orlando series in 1995 especially after Game 1 which was his "bad game" where he also had that famous turnover. It's not a great argument to use against Jordan that he lost one series between two threepeats and in that series put up 31/6/4 on 54 %TS. If that's his worst he must be pretty good.

[Bronbron23]

.
1995 ECSF

Jordan... 31.0.. 6.7.. 3.7.. 2.5.. 1.8.. 48%
Pippen... 19.0.. 9.7.. 5.7.. 1.0.. 1.3.. 41%

^^^ Jordan led most categories and carried the scoring


Critical Game 5

Jordan... 39 pts
Pippen... 10 pts

Yeah pip wasn't amazing but as the team leader it's partly up to mj to get pip in the best position to succeed and he obviously didn't do that, that series. I can see it also being a weird dynamic. Pip was the man while mj was gone and then mj comes back and they both probably weren't totally adjusted.

Just being fair. Alot of mj stans hold bron to the same standard. Gotta be consistent

[ShawkFactory]

This prompted the Rodman pickup. They couldn't get it done defensively against Orlando's size.

[Hey Yo]

Not really, most just use common sense about it. Mj missed almost 2 years playing a completely different sport. Once again bron stans are hypocrites on this subject. Lebron misses just 30 games and he couldn't find his playoff mode and his stans excuse it but mj misses a year and a half and the expect him to be the same guy. Brons stans are so unaware of their shit:facepalm

MJ put up better numbers in the loss to Orlando than he did winning the 98 Finals.

Yes, James missed 30gms but you for to mention the combined 110gms missed between Ingram, Ball, Hart and Rondo.

[Axe]

This was the time he came back after being suspended for his controversial gambling habits.

[mehyaM24]

Well his stats for the year were by far his worst. As usual like bron he amped it up come playoff time but he clearly was a little off. Don't need stats to see that. Literally everyone but mj haters saw it and were commenting on it in real time.

And i definitely think Rodman would of swayed that series but who knows have to agree to disagree on that.

I mean i'm fine if we're going with he wasn't rusty and he was fully back qnd he just couldn't get it done but we have to apply the same to bron in 19-20.

you could argue the rust stuff all you want. and maybe his "feel" wasn't exactly 100%. but jordan's numbers were better in those playoffs than in the second 3-peat. just a fact. don't know what lebron has to do with anything. never brought him up and don't need to "apply" anything there.

[Bronbron23]

you could argue the rust stuff all you want. and maybe his "feel" wasn't exactly 100%. but jordan's numbers were better in those playoffs than in the second 3-peat. just a fact. don't know what lebron has to do with anything. never brought him up and don't need to "apply" anything there.

Well majority of these threads and comments are bron loving mj haters so it was more to the thread than you.

As far as mj being 100% again it's just common sense. Plus if you watched the games which maybe u did or didn't mj clearly wasn't fully back. Most experts and people with common sense acknowledge this. Just because his stats were still good it dosn't mean much. Stats don't always tell the whole story. A player could play a great 3.5 quarters of basketball and rack up great stats and then make key mistakes down the stretch that they wouldn't usually make that cost them the game. Stats really don't mean shit tbh

[mehyaM24]

As far as mj being 100% again it's just common sense. Plus if you watched the games which maybe u did or didn't mj clearly wasn't fully back. Most experts and people with common sense acknowledge this. Just because his stats were still good it dosn't mean much. Stats don't always tell the whole story. A player could play a great 3.5 quarters of basketball and rack up great stats and then make key mistakes down the stretch that they wouldn't usually make that cost them the game. Stats really don't mean shit tbh

like i said, you could argue that. and i don't necessarily disagree. but saying stats don't matter is bs. numbers are your final output, and what you produce absolutely matters. otherwise nobody would talk about guys like wilt and mj the way they do. orlando was solid during that run - regardless of mj's rust. him being 100% or whatever wouldn't make that much a difference if any. the math simply doesn't add up.

[Bronbron23]

like i said, you could argue that. and i don't necessarily disagree. but saying stats don't matter is bs. numbers are your final output, and what you produce absolutely matters. otherwise nobody would talk about guys like wilt and mj the way they do. orlando was solid during that run - regardless of mj's rust. him being 100% or whatever wouldn't make that much a difference if any. the math simply doesn't add up.

Yes in general they obviously matter. They just don't always reflect the total impact of a game or series or even a season at times. There's so many factors that come into play. For instance scoring 25 pts a game on a bum team is nowhere near the same as scoring 25 pts a game on a contender. That dosn't really apply here but it's just an example of how stats can be pretty meaningless.

As far as mj in 95 math dosn't have anything to do with it. Not all 30/5/5 are created equal. Not even from the same person. Guys like mj and bron are always gonna put up thise numbers because they're great and they are the focal point of the offense. Dosn't mean they always played around the same. Decision making could have been not as good. Closing games coukd of been not as good. Defense could of been not as good.

Stats obviously matter. As far as determining impact stats can sometimes be pretty meaningless.

[mehyaM24]

you already said jordan was 90% though. jordan at 100% isn't worth 7 extra points - which is the average margin orlando won by. we can go on about different "impact" scenarios but jordan's +/- (bpm) was roughly the same as 96-98. mj fans hype his 98 run all the time, but in the 95 playoffs he scored the same number of points and was more efficient. had essentially equal impact with bpm too. bottom line, there aren't enough possessions in a game for a "non rusty" jordan to makeup. again.. the math doesn't lie.

[Bronbron23]

you already said jordan was 90% though. jordan at 100% isn't worth 7 extra points - which is the average margin orlando won by. we can go on about different "impact" scenarios but jordan's +/- (bpm) was roughly the same as 96-98. mj fans hype his 98 run all the time, but in the 95 playoffs he scored the same number of points and was more efficient. had essentially equal impact with bpm too. bottom line, there aren't enough possessions in a game for a "non rusty" jordan to makeup. again.. the math doesn't lie.

Not saying the math lies it just dosn't always tell the whole story is all. I already explained how that can be. This is why eye test is can be as important as stats, accolades and chips.

[mehyaM24]

Not saying the math lies it just dosn't always tell the whole story is all. I already explained how that can be. This is why eye test is can be as important as stats, accolades and chips.

right. and here there's not a lot of wiggle room for "100%" mj. i watched that series and it mostly came down to rebounding. rodman makes a difference, sure, but i don't know how much. the 96 bulls overall played better teamball.

[Bronbron23]

right. and here there's not a lot of wiggle room for "100%" mj. i watched that series and it mostly came down to rebounding. rodman makes a difference, sure, but i don't know how much. the 96 bulls overall played better teamball.

Yeah that definitely played a factor. Mj also looked winded at the end of games. Commentators brought it up a few times. You can't train for baseball for a year and a half and come back with 17 ganes under your belt and be the same. It dosnt work like that dude

[mehyaM24]

Yeah that definitely played a factor. Mj also looked winded at the end of games. Commentators brought it up a few times. You can't train for baseball for a year and a half and come back with 17 ganes under your belt and be the same. It dosnt work like that dude

we can agree to disagree. 90% mj isn't far off from 100% mj. and that 10% isn't worth 7 points.

[Axe]

Yeah that definitely played a factor. Mj also looked winded at the end of games. Commentators brought it up a few times. You can't train for baseball for a year and a half and come back with 17 ganes under your belt and be the same. It dosnt work like that dude
Just learned that he played in all 82 games per season during the second three-peat. Or 246 in total.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

.
1995 ECSF

Jordan... 31.0.. 6.7.. 3.7.. 2.5.. 1.8.. 48%
Pippen... 19.0.. 9.7.. 5.7.. 1.0.. 1.3.. 41%

^^^ Jordan led most categories and carried the scoring


Critical Game 5

Jordan... 39 pts
Pippen... 10 pts


Also, Mike only returned in mid-March after not playing since June of '93. Had a month under his belt in his early 30's after taking 21 months off. Can you imagine being away almost 2 years, in baseball shape, and even making it competitive? At age 32? How great is our GOAT?:bowdown:

[HylianNightmare]

He played in the 1995 NBA playoffs.



How long had he been back

[SouBeachTalents]

Also, Mike only returned in mid-March after not playing since June of '93. Had a month under his belt in his early 30's after taking 21 months off. Can you imagine being away almost 2 years, in baseball shape, and even making it competitive? At age 32? How great is our GOAT?:bowdown:
Shaquille O'Neal "fan" hyping up Jordan but completely ignoring Shaq winning the series :lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Shaquille O'Neal "fan" hyping up Jordan but completely ignoring Shaq winning the series :lol

Whatsup with that guy's avatar? :oldlol: Shaq looks at you like a snack.

[light]

This was all about Horace Grant.

He got his revenge.

If the Bulls had Horace Grant they would've won that series, but the Magic had Horace Grant and the Bulls didn't have a replacement for him until Dennis Rodman.

It goes to show you how critically important these pieces were for Michael Jordan's success in the 90's. If he lost any one of those elements - Jackson, Pippen, Grant/Rodman - he was not going anywhere in the playoffs.

[HoopsNY]

olrando was better that run than in 96 in large part because grant was healthy. he averaged 18/11 in this series and shot 61% from the field. without him in 96 though rodman destroyed the magic on the boards (averaged 12pts/16reb for the series) and chicago took care of the magic quickly. the game in op though proves why houston would have won regardless of jordan. the myth that somehow he would have "stopped" them (even though chicago lost to orlando WITH jordan) is always funny to see. :oldlol:

Houston likely wins in 1995, I agree. But losing in the finals in 1995 would have added to Jordan's legacy, not taken away from it, especially if he played the entire season.

Chicago beats Houston easily in 1994, so you're look at an additional championship, MVP, FMVP, 2000+ points, 600 rebs, 500 assists, 200 steals, and another All-NBA, All-Star, and All-Defensive selection.

The same happens in 1995, but probably not another FMVP and title.


ya but the mj brigade act like all jordan needed was pippen. even with pippen though he's dragged through the mud, and rarely held in high esteem. dont agree with jordan looking rust either.. he averaged 32ppg on 48% shooting in the playoffs. its doubtful rodman would've been enough to sway that series in their favor (mj stans definitely don't think so). the magic were REALLY good that year. and the rockets would've been even tougher.


In 1995? Well Rodman wasn't on the team. But even with a healthy Grant in 1996, Orlando still loses.

Chicago swept that series by an average of 17 points. Grant played in game 1 and got injured in the 3rd quarter when he collided with Shaq. Orlando was already down by 20 points at that point. And Grant was having a terrible game.

In the regular season, Chicago went 3-1 against Orlando. That's 7/8 wins and unlike 1995, Chicago had HCA. There literally isn't any indication that a healthy Grant would have made a difference in 1996 as some people might say.

[HoopsNY]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmq3FHY5TYo Orlando Magic eliminating the Bulls in Game 6 of the 1995 NBA Playoffs. Shaq and Grant took advantage of the Bulls front court. One of the reasons why the Bulls traded Will Purdue for Dennis Rodman in one of the worst trades of all time for the Spurs. Grant averaged 18 ppg and 11 rpg against his former team. They had a rematch in 1996 Bulls prevailed. Series could have been longer if Horace Grant didn't get injured in Game 1. Grant only played 1 game against Chicago in the 1996 nba playoffs. Shaq signed with the Lakers the following season and the rest was history."

I really doubt it. Anyone who watched that series knew that Grant wouldn't have impacted the series as one might have thought. Chicago won the season series 3-1. Grant put up 11/8/1.5 in the regular season against Chicago. Chicago then won the series by an average of 17 points.

In game 1, before the injury collision with Shaq, Orlando was already down by 20 in the 3rd quarter. Grant at that point? 28 minutes, 0 points, 0-1 shooting, 0 assists, and 1 rebound. Rodman had him completely ineffective, similar to the regular season.

[2much_knowledge]

1995 Magic was the best team Jordan faced in the entire 90s. He lost to them convincingly and they were injured a year later.

Injured a year later like the bubble Miami Heat? Got ya. Since you keep track of this, this sort of comment means that you acknowledge that it diminishes the Lakers last championship. Cool

[2much_knowledge]

MJ's Bulls legit lost in 1995. However he did still play very well in the Orlando series in 1995 especially after Game 1 which was his "bad game" where he also had that famous turnover. It's not a great argument to use against Jordan that he lost one series between two threepeats and in that series put up 31/6/4 on 54 %TS. If that's his worst he must be pretty good.


This, he lost fair and square but this WAS NO 2011 LEBRON EGG LAY. Thats for sure lololololol

[Lebron23]

Injured a year later like the bubble Miami Heat? Got ya. Since you keep track of this, this sort of comment means that you acknowledge that it diminishes the Lakers last championship. Cool

The Bubble Miami Heat have more offensive options than the 1998 Jazz who had Stockton and Hornacek averaging 9.8 ppg and 9.7 ppg respectively in the nba finals.

[2much_knowledge]

The Bubble Miami Heat have more offensive options than the 1998 Bulls who had Stockton and Hornacek averaging 9.8 ppg and 9.7 ppg respectively in the nba finals.

Not the point. He tried to make a smart ass comment, trying to imply that the only reason Jordan swept them aside was cause of injuries. Well, same can be applied to the 2020 finals. Unless you have a ridiculous doble standard.

[2much_knowledge]

Sad thing is, injuries or not, Jordan did swept them with Shaq and Penny PLAYING

Bam was injured at first and Dragic too.

4 - (2) four to freaking two lol

[Lebron23]

Sad thing is, injuries or not, Jordan did swept them with Shaq and Penny PLAYING

Bam was injured at first and Dragic too.

4 - (2) four to freaking two lol

That Miami Heat team have plenty of scoring option