LeBron's current stats translated to if he played in 1998 via ranking vs peers:

[hiphopanonymous]

By comparing his rank among the league. Here's how it goes dialing him into the 1998 brand of basketball:

20.1ppg (14th in scoring = 5.3ppg less than where he ranks right now)
7.9 rpg (24th in rebounding = same rpg then and now)
8.2 apg (8th in assists = 0.3 apg more then vs now)
.549 TS% (52nd in TS% = .056% lower TS% vs now)

Could be done for any star today but I think the trend is, assists and rebounding are roughly the same. Shooting percentages and the depth of how many players can achieve high ppg are currently very inflated right now if trying to compare to 90's players. Just an example

[RRR3]

Imagine being a Cavs fan who spends all his time melting down about the only person who ever made your franchise relevant.

[GrayGoat]

It doesn’t work like that

[SouBeachTalents]

LeBron's averaged at least 25 ppg for 17 seasons in a row, no ones going to actually believe he's averaging 20 ppg regardless of era :lol

[hiphopanonymous]

LeBron's averaged at least 25 ppg for 17 seasons in a row, no ones going to actually believe he's averaging 20 ppg regardless of era :lol
Reasonable assumptions based on natural decline. He's lucky he's declining as the league trend of scoring and efficiency goes up

[97 bulls]

By comparing his rank among the league. Here's how it goes dialing him into the 1998 brand of basketball:

20.1ppg (14th in scoring = 5.3ppg less than where he ranks right now)
7.9 rpg (24th in rebounding = same rpg then and now)
8.2 apg (8th in assists = 0.3 apg more then vs now)
.549 TS% (52nd in TS% = .056% lower TS% vs now)

Could be done for any star today but I think the trend is, assists and rebounding are roughly the same. Shooting percentages and the depth of how many players can achieve high ppg are currently very inflated right now if trying to compare to 90's players. Just an example
This is always my argument when comparing the statistics of todays players with players of the past. In particular the mid to late 90s.

But I think if he played in the late 90s, seeing as how the league played back then. Slow, plodding , post up ball. And there more of an emphasis on defense. I think it's fair to say his ppg would be closer to about 18 ppg as well as a lower FG%

His rebounding would be lower as well in my opinion because there wasnt as big of an emphasis on small ball like there is today.
His assists may not change much. But even then, due to the tempo of the way the game is played, I think his assists go down as well if he played in the 90s.

It's just a totally different era.

[97 bulls]

I think Lebron James numbers in the mid to late 90s would look something like 18/7/7 on 46% shooting. Which is still excellent for a guy that's ok his mid 30s

[Lebron23]

Reasonable assumptions based on natural decline. He's lucky he's declining as the league trend of scoring and efficiency goes up

Lebron actually improved his 3 points range. That's why he is almost averaging 26 ppg. Jordan always been an inefficient 3 points shooter that's why his numbers from his Wizards days were below 23 ppg

[Lebron23]

I think Lebron James numbers in the mid to late 90s would look something like 18/7/7 on 46% shooting. Which is still excellent for a guy that's ok his mid 30s
That's Pippen numbers. It's not Lebron's fault most nba players in the 1990's did not attempted more 3 pointers. Bulls struggled against a good 3 points shooting team in the 1998 conference finals

[8Ball]

By comparing his rank among the league. Here's how it goes dialing him into the 1998 brand of basketball:

20.1ppg (14th in scoring = 5.3ppg less than where he ranks right now)
7.9 rpg (24th in rebounding = same rpg then and now)
8.2 apg (8th in assists = 0.3 apg more then vs now)
.549 TS% (52nd in TS% = .056% lower TS% vs now)

Could be done for any star today but I think the trend is, assists and rebounding are roughly the same. Shooting percentages and the depth of how many players can achieve high ppg are currently very inflated right now if trying to compare to 90's players. Just an example


Wrong. LeBron would average 30/7/7 in 1998.

He averaged 20ppg his rookie year at 18 years old in 2004, 6 years later.

Give me a break hippo boy.

[8Ball]

This is always my argument when comparing the statistics of todays players with players of the past. In particular the mid to late 90s.

But I think if he played in the late 90s, seeing as how the league played back then. Slow, plodding , post up ball. And there more of an emphasis on defense. I think it's fair to say his ppg would be closer to about 18 ppg as well as a lower FG%

His rebounding would be lower as well in my opinion because there wasnt as big of an emphasis on small ball like there is today.
His assists may not change much. But even then, due to the tempo of the way the game is played, I think his assists go down as well if he played in the 90s.

It's just a totally different era.

Wrong.

LeBron started in an era that was just as slow, plodding, post up ball in the early and mid 2000s and went 30/7/7.

Mid 2000's shot just as many 3s as the late 90s.

https://i.insider.com/5a4290f94aa6b5a01a8b6cae?width=750&format=jpeg&auto=webp

[3ball]

Wrong. LeBron would average 30/7/7 in 1998.

He averaged 20ppg his rookie year at 18 years old in 2004, 6 years later.

Give me a break hippo boy.


Today's teams give up an extra 8 points per 100 possessions, most of which goes to the star players

So Lebron would average a lot less in a league that doesn't allow as many points

[mehyaM24]

Wrong. LeBron would average 30/7/7 in 1998.

He averaged 20ppg his rookie year at 18 years old in 2004, 6 years later.

Give me a break hippo boy.

good point - lebron is a MUCH better player now than at 18. not only that, though, but adjusting for 100 possessions is WAY more accurate than simply saying "14th place in 21 is 14th place in 98". :oldlol: what are you regulating there? that would be no different than me saying lebron leads the league in impact (RPM--which adjusts for possession) therefor would lead in 98 too.

[97 bulls]

That's Pippen numbers. It's not Lebron's fault most nba players in the 1990's did not attempted more 3 pointers. Bulls struggled against a good 3 points shooting team in the 1998 conference finals

I'm talking about 35 year old Lebron James. Not Lebron James 10 years ago.

[DoctorP]

Branstains butthurt all over this thread.

[3ball]

good point - lebron is a MUCH better player now than at 18. not only that, though, but adjusting for 100 possessions is WAY more accurate than simply saying "14th place in 21 is 14th place in 98". :oldlol: what are you regulating there? that would be no different than me saying lebron leads the league in impact (RPM--which adjusts for possession) therefor would lead in 98 too.


The rules changed in 2005, so defense became hands-off, which caused a spike in his stats along with his switch to a PG role (he played mostly off-ball as a rookie)

[3ball]

The level of contests on shots was simply FAR SUPERIOR in a no-spacing environment - every shot is an impossible shot that would never be attempted in today's spaced-out free-for-all:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xU8MjoOAooA&t=0m20s


Even at the 1:08 mark, we see an impossible shot taken in traffic ON THE FAST BREAK, because defenders ran to the paint on the break (not the 3-point line like today's game

[hiphopanonymous]

While I understand there's no such thing as a linear stat transfer via ranking, I also understand there's no linear transfer via raw stats. The game was different back then, period, and it affects anyone who's ever potentially able to play back then.

Why don't some of you actually speak on some of the nuances of the game if you're going to object to a statistical transfer via ranking? Because let's at least be honest with ourselves, there's no way a 14th ranked scorer right now becomes a top 4 scorer in 1998. They played different rules and it limited everyone, this isn't a talent thing this is a game was played different thing.

If you think LeBron would somehow miraculously beat the odds and be "even better" relative to every pro in the NBA back then than he is right now just at least attempt to explain why other than 3's because we all know the rules have drastically changed about how the 3 can be defended so that isn't going to cut it.

Someone mentioned at 18 he scored 20ppg 2004 and that's somehow proof his old 35 year old body wouldn't score that back in 1998. He was 13th back then vs his peers he's 14th now and was 12th last season so... Don't most pro athletes have a prime that they one day are no longer in? Is LeBron some sort of exception, he just miraculously maintains his prime at 35 despite actually dropping in rank below where he ranked as a rookie?. I actually think 20ppg spiking to 25-30 and dropping back down to 20 by now is quite a reasonable expectation had the game stayed the same over the years.

Here's his scoring rank over the years:
2003-04 NBA 20.9 (13th)
2004-05 NBA 27.2 (3rd)
2005-06 NBA 31.4 (3rd)
2006-07 NBA 27.3 (4th)
2007-08 NBA 30.0 (1st)
2008-09 NBA 28.4 (2nd)
2009-10 NBA 29.7 (2nd)
2010-11 NBA 26.7 (2nd)
2011-12 NBA 27.1 (3rd)
2012-13 NBA 26.8 (4th)
2013-14 NBA 27.1 (3rd)
2014-15 NBA 25.3 (3rd)
2015-16 NBA 25.3 (5th)
2016-17 NBA 26.4 (8th)
2017-18 NBA 27.5 (3rd)
2018-19 NBA 27.3 (DNQ, injured - but would have been around 6th)
2019-20 NBA 25.3 (12th)
2020-21 NBA 25.4 (14th)

https://i.ibb.co/RhS10Zy/Le-Bron-career-scoring-rank.png

Kinda looks like a gradual decline to me.

[8Ball]

LeBron being the 14th leading scorer in 2021 means he would be the 14th leading scorer in 1998 according to your stats. First of all this is 3ball levels of retard. Never go full retard.


2nd all this tells me is that the league is getting better today than before, and while LeBron can still maintain 25ppg, there's even more scoring ability today vs 1998.


Another LeBron myth debunked.

[8Ball]

Kinda looks like a gradual decline to me.


Gradual decline yet LeBron was LEADING the MVP race before getting a high ankle sprain. Who leads the MVP race yet is in decline?


You went full retard. Never go full retard.

[hiphopanonymous]

Also keep in mind ppg throughout a season does not mean "better scorer" it just means able to keep up the pace throughout the season. Age slows you down, his ranking keeps dropping. I'm just pointing that out while trying to point out that people in the 20-5 rankings of today are getting a lot higher numbers than the 20-5 spots were getting back in say, the 1990's when the games rules and trends were completely different.

Unless all you guys that are protesting this want to believe Zach LaVine as he is today is going back to LeBron's rookie season in a time machine and putting up Tmac numbers and blowing Kobe away by several points per game?

Really intelligent thought - I mean why can't he linearly do that if you think LeBron would?

[8Ball]

I'm talking about 35 year old Lebron James. Not Lebron James 10 years ago.

35 year old LeBron was 2nd in the MVP race in the most competitive era ever.
36 year old LeBron was leading the MVP race before the injury

He'd crush the 90s in his mid 30s.

[3ball]

Gradual decline yet LeBron was LEADING the MVP race before getting a high ankle sprain. Who leads the MVP race yet is in decline?


You went full retard. Never go full retard.


So the Rachel Nichols clique had him leading the MVP race and fulfilling their max ratings narrative until it became too obvious?

[hiphopanonymous]

Gradual decline yet LeBron was LEADING the MVP race before getting a high ankle sprain. Who leads the MVP race yet is in decline?


You went full retard. Never go full retard.

I think you're letting your emotions think instead of looking at this objectively. He's ranked 14 in scoring. That's a fact, and it has nothing to do with MVP voting. He was ranked 13th as a rookie where he scored about 20ppg and I said that if he's ranked 14th as he is today he'd be about 20ppg back in 1998 in a game very similarly played to when he was ranked 13th in 2004. And he's no longer been hitting those top scoring spots lately.

What's your guys problem with acknowledging his drop in the ranks? I never said anything about his MVP votes these are just a stats on paper comparison with his peers that's all you can score a lot less and still win an MVP that's not what makes MVP's MVP candidates. Their perceived value to the team, as well as media and fan appreciation does.

[8Ball]

I have no problem was his ranking's dropping for PPG.

Calling him a 18ppg scorer in 1998 using ranking comparisons is asinine. There are still 48 minutes in a game and the optimal scoring range is between 25-30 ppg for a top calibre player in a team to score and win the game.

The best player in the world averaging 25/8/8 in 2021 is going to suddenly average 18/8/8 in 1998 because of comparison rankings? No.

[SouBeachTalents]

I have no problem was his ranking's dropping for PPG.

Calling him a 18ppg scorer in 1998 using ranking comparisons is asinine. There are still 48 minutes in a game and the optimal scoring range is between 25-30 ppg for a top calibre player in a team to score and win the game.

The best player in the world averaging 25/8/8 in 2021 is going to suddenly average 18/8/8 in 1998 because of comparison rankings? No.
A factor I feel that hasn't been mentioned, unless I just missed it lol, is that LeBron's currently only playing 34 mpg. If he were in '98, his minutes would increase, how much they would at 36 is hard to say, but if you look at the guys in the top 15 in scoring in '98 the majority of them were playing 39-40 minutes a game. So regardless of era, you can't tell me playing potentially 5-6 extra minutes a game wouldn't play a big factor in LeBron's averages.

[Manny98]

What a dumb thread :facepalm

[8Ball]

Since the game was slower back then and you can walk around smoking a cigarette (less possessions), yes LeBron could play 40 mins a game in a slower era.

[3ball]

.

The best player in the world averaging 25/8/8 in 2021 is going to suddenly average 18/8/8 in 1998 because of comparison rankings? No





The comparison rankings incorporate the changes in era, such as rule changes, etc

So the #13 scorer averaged 18 ppg in 98', but the #13 scorer today averages a lot more because of the rules and format differences

[8Ball]

Wrong.

Higher skilled era. More scorers.

[dankok8]

League Averages

1998: 105.0 DRtg, 90.3 Pace
2021: 112.1 DRtg, 99.1 Pace

Those who think all current players' numbers wouldn't drop a lot in 1998 just aren't living in reality. 20 ppg is too low but 23/7/7 ppg on 56 %TS is pretty realistic.

[mehyaM24]

The rules changed in 2005, so defense became hands-off, which caused a spike in his stats along with his switch to a PG role (he played mostly off-ball as a rookie)

has nothing to do with what i said. you make a habit of posting things that don't relate to the topic. why is that?


League Averages

1998: 105.0 DRtg, 90.3 Pace
2021: 112.1 DRtg, 99.1 Pace

Those who think all current players' numbers wouldn't drop a lot in 1998 just aren't living in reality. 20 ppg is too low but 23/7/7 ppg on 56 %TS is pretty realistic.

right, but nobody denies the 90s were slower. or generally better on defense. the issue was with op claiming the 14 best scorer today = 14th best score then. that is dumb.

[3ball]

has nothing to do with what i said. you make a habit of posting things that don't relate to the topic. why is that?


You make a habit of pretending you didn't get answered and owned

[3ball]

op claiming the 14 best scorer today = 14th best score then. that is dumb


.


Lebron isn't a top scorer and hasn't been for a while, so it makes no sense to increase his scoring ability relative to his peers when looking at another era

if he's the 14th best scorer today, it makes no sense to move him up in a tougher-scoring era that requires tougher shots

[97 bulls]

Lebron isn't a top scorer and hasn't been for a while, so it makes no sense to increase his scoring ability relative to his peers when looking at another era

if he's the 14th best scorer today, it makes no sense to move him up in a tougher-scoring era that requires tougher shots

I have a question. Scottie Pippen was the 8th best scorer in 94 at 22ppg. 8th best today would be 27 ppg. Do you agree with that?

[sdot_thadon]

I have a question. Scottie Pippen was the 8th best scorer in 94 at 22ppg. 8th best today would be 27 ppg. Do you agree with that?

:applause:

[8Ball]

I have a question. Scottie Pippen was the 8th best scorer in 94 at 22ppg. 8th best today would be 27 ppg. Do you agree with that?

I agree with it.

Scottie Pippen without Jordan would average 25ppg +

[hiphopanonymous]

I have a question. Scottie Pippen was the 8th best scorer in 94 at 22ppg. 8th best today would be 27 ppg. Do you agree with that?

I wouldn't have a problem with that at all - this is a different league than then. Of course each player could be dissected on a far far more specific basis of 3 point shooting potential, ball handling potential etc as to which best take advantage of today's banned 3 point defense, and ignored gather steps, carries and travels. Pippen in my opinion would definitely be one of the highly efficient scorers of today as far as I could tell though. He had all around skillset back then, that's exactly what's going to push him into that 27ppg on "great efficiency" territory with how the game is played right now

[Axe]

I have a question. Scottie Pippen was the 8th best scorer in 94 at 22ppg. 8th best today would be 27 ppg. Do you agree with that?
Yea, it might be even a bit higher since he'd attempt more threes in this three-point festival era.