Would Wilt be the Undisputed goat of basketball nowadays if it wasn't for Russell

[coastalmarker99]

In this hypothetical situation, where do you think Wilt's all-time ranking would be nowadays if Bill Russell never played in the NBA?




Would he be viewed as the undisputed goat nowadays by fans and Media with more titles to go along with all of his incredible records? Or would Lebron and Jordan get ranked over him because of competition and the era that Wilt played in?





Without Russell standing in his way from 1959 to 1969, Wilt would most likely have 8+ titles and 6 MVPs to go along with all of the rebounding records that he would now hold all to himself with no Russell.









But despite all of that, I think without Russell that the 60s NBA would be looked down upon more than it is now as a rich man’s version of the shot clock era and “Wilt only achieved those things against short white guy” claims would double to.






Overall, without Russell standing in his way from 1959 to 1969, Wilt is ranked higher and is most likely a consensus top 3 player of all time alongside Jordan and Lebron but I do think many people would still pick MJ and Lebron over him based on competition and the era that Wilt played in.

[Ainosterhaspie]

I differentiate between pre merger/three point NBA and post. Russell and Wilt are GOAT tier, but lower in that tier than James, Jordan, Jabar.

In your scenario Wilt probably is viewed similar to Mikan. May have dominated, but era too weak to put him above guys in modern post merger NBA.

[coastalmarker99]

I differentiate between pre merger/three point NBA and post. Russell and Wilt are GOAT tier, but lower in that tier than James, Jordan, Jabar.

In your scenario Wilt probably is viewed similar to Mikan. May have dominated, but era too weak to put him above guys in modern post merger NBA.


You are most likely right as Wilt's known rate of winning series against everyone but Boston is just over 80% (a little bit higher than that of Michael Jordan), he probably wins a lot of titles, not necessarily as many as Russell but probably 8-12 and he would have also posted monster numbers most years against the Lakers in those finals wins throughout the 1960's.







However, with no great center rival to challenge him except maybe Nate Thurmond or Walt Bellamy, fans and the media would say he was more a glandular freak that took advantage of a weak era to pad his stats and rings. Though he would be in the top 3 in GOAT lists as it would be impossible to leave off the greatest individual player and now winner of all time

[dankok8]

I don't think you can assume so many titles with Wilt. Let's see year by year.

1960 - Wilt makes the Finals and runs into a really strong Hawks team that took Boston to 7 games. Most like no ring.

1961 - Wilt lost to Syracuse so no ring.

1962 - Wilt makes the Finals and runs into a Lakers team with peaking Baylor + West. Maybe a ring maybe not.

1963 - Wilt missed the playoffs so no ring.

1964 - Wilt makes the Finals and probably faces the Royals led by Oscar. It's a tough series but Wilt probably pulls it out since Lucas was injured in the playoffs.

1965 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces a strong Lakers led by West and Baylor. Maybe a ring maybe not.

1966 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces a strong Lakers led by West and Baylor. Maybe a ring maybe not.

1967 - Ring

1968 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces a strong Lakers led by West and Baylor. Maybe a ring maybe not. Sixers would be favorites if healthy but they had some injuries this postseason.

1969 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces the Knicks. Probably a ring.

And then 1970-1973 Russell was gone and he won one in 1972. Putting all of this together I think Wilt wins about 4-5 rings if Russell never existed. Honestly though I'm not sure his legacy would be greater. People would diminish the old era still kind of how Russell gets no respect. Maybe he'd have more supporters for GOAT. Probably actually but he's probably not the outright GOAT either way.

[light]

Unfortunately no.

Wilt was too much of a center.

Jordan is paying the penalty right now for being too small as a guard.

Someone like LeBron would've always surpassed Jordan.

Someone bigger than LeBron will eventually surpass him.

That will continue until there's a player the size of Shaq that's great at everything like LeBron and can shoot like Steph Curry.

[coastalmarker99]

I don't think you can assume so many titles with Wilt. Let's see year by year.

1960 - Wilt makes the Finals and runs into a really strong Hawks team that took Boston to 7 games. Most like no ring.

1961 - Wilt lost to Syracuse so no ring.

1962 - Wilt makes the Finals and runs into a Lakers team with peaking Baylor + West. Maybe a ring maybe not.

1963 - Wilt missed the playoffs so no ring.

1964 - Wilt makes the Finals and probably faces the Royals led by Oscar. It's a tough series but Wilt probably pulls it out since Lucas was injured in the playoffs.

1965 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces a strong Lakers led by West and Baylor. Maybe a ring maybe not.

1966 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces a strong Lakers led by West and Baylor. Maybe a ring maybe not.

1967 - Ring

1968 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces a strong Lakers led by West and Baylor. Maybe a ring maybe not. Sixers would be favorites if healthy but they had some injuries this postseason.

1969 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces the Knicks. Probably a ring.

And then 1970-1973 Russell was gone and he won one in 1972. Putting all of this together I think Wilt wins about 4-5 rings if Russell never existed. Honestly though I'm not sure his legacy would be greater. People would diminish the old era still kind of how Russell gets no respect. Maybe he'd have more supporters for GOAT. Probably actually but he's probably not the outright GOAT either way.




1960 - Wilt makes the Finals and runs into a really strong Hawks team that took Boston to 7 games, Most likely a ring as I think Wilt can pull it off due to the Hawks inability to stop him at all so, therefore, Wilt completes the goat rookie season with a ring.

1961 - Wilt lost to Syracuse so no ring. I agree

1962 - Wilt makes the Finals and runs into a Lakers team with peaking Baylor + West. Maybe a ring maybe not I think Wilt pulls it off that year due to the Lakers weakness at center.

1963 - Wilt missed the playoffs so no ring.

1964 - Wilt makes the Finals and probably faces the Royals led by Oscar. It's a tough series but Wilt probably pulls it out since Lucas was injured in the playoffs. I agree with you.

1965 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces a strong Lakers led by West and Baylor. Maybe a ring maybe not. Baylor was injured and unable to play in the finals that year so another ring for Wilt.

1966 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces a strong Lakers led by West and Baylor. Maybe a ring maybe not. The Sixers frontcourt is too much for the Lakers to deal with plus Baylor was declining so another ring for Wilt.

1967 - Ring

1968 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces a strong Lakers led by West and Baylor. Maybe a ring maybe not. Sixers would be favourites if healthy but they had some injuries this postseason despite that I think they can pull it off due to their massive frontcourt advantage but it would be a very close series but due to Hca, I will give it to Wilt in 7 games so another ring for Wilt.


1969 - Wilt makes the Finals and faces the Knicks. Probably a ring.




I have Wilt winning 7 rings throughout the 1960s and also I don't think he joins the Lakers in 1968 if he battles with them almost every single year for titles in the finals.


So if he stays on the 76ers as a player-coach after Alex leaves that team with starting five of Jones--Walker--Greer--Wilt--Jackson with Billy C. as the 6th man--maybe Jackson's physical breakdown puts in on the bench(early load management, hehe) and Cunningham starts. That is the best starting five in the league for a 3-5 year stretch. Assuming no injuries, I think they get anywhere from 3-5 more titles.

[iamgine]

I think there's a misconception that Wilt was just gonna swoop all the titles if it weren't for Russell. Wilt's team had a losing record against some other teams.

[coastalmarker99]

I think there's a misconception that Wilt was just gonna swoop all the titles if it weren't for Russell. Wilt's team had a losing record against some other teams.

Unfortunately, you are wrong as Wilt's known rate of winning series against everyone but Boston is just over 80% (a little bit higher than that of Michael Jordan's),

1-7 Wilt's PO-series record vs. Celtics.

1-22 every other team's PO record vs. Celtics from 1957 to 1969 and that one win came when Russell was injured in the 1958 finals so that could be 23 and 0 against every team besides Wilt's 1967 76ers for the Celtics

17-4 Wilt's PO record against every other team besides the Celtics.






And it also should be noted that in the 1970 finals Wilt was seriously hurt and shouldn't have even been playing in the first place. That season after his serious knee injury that he had sustained earlier in the year which caused Wilt to miss 70 games of that season.

Along with that in the 1971 Wcf against the Bucks with a prime Kareem on their team, Wilt had both his sidekicks out as Lebron had in 2015.



Yet, he somehow still managed to get a game off that team without both Baylor and West so that record with a little bit of luck could have easily been 19 and 2 I repeat 19 wins and 2 losses for Wilt's entire career in the playoffs against any other team besides the Celtics.

[iamgine]

Unfortunately, you are wrong as Wilt's known rate of winning series against everyone but Boston is just over 80% (a little bit higher than that of Michael Jordan's),

1-7 Wilt's PO-series record vs. Celtics.

1-22 every other team's PO record vs. Celtics from 1957 to 1969 and that one win came when Russell was injured in the 1958 finals so that could be 23 and 0 against every team besides Wilt's 1967 76ers for the Celtics

17-4 Wilt's PO record against every other team besides the Celtics.






And it also should be noted that in the 1970 finals Wilt was seriously hurt and shouldn't have even been playing in the first place. That season after his serious knee injury that he had sustained earlier in the year which caused Wilt to miss 70 games of that season.

Along with that in the 1971 Wcf against the Bucks with a prime Kareem on their team, Wilt had both his sidekicks out as Lebron had in 2015.



Yet, he somehow still managed to get a game off that team without both Baylor and West so that record with a little bit of luck could have easily been 19 and 2 I repeat 19 wins and 2 losses for Wilt's entire career in the playoffs against any other team besides the Celtics.
Well for example St. Louis Hawks had a winning record vs Wilt's team for a number of years.

[2much_knowledge]

Its not that difficult. He would've been the goat but people would still say weak era


What kills the goat talk for him is ring count and finals loses only

[2much_knowledge]

Unfortunately no.

Wilt was too much of a center.

Jordan is paying the penalty right now for being too small as a guard.

Someone like LeBron would've always surpassed Jordan.

Someone bigger than LeBron will eventually surpass him.

That will continue until there's a player the size of Shaq that's great at everything like LeBron and can shoot like Steph Curry.

What a stupid way of thinking. You judge players for what they achieve in their career, Not cause of their attributes , height or style of play.

420 is for weed, not crack